Advice on back-up plans!

[168135]

I've been stressing out for a while over this... I'm having trouble deciding what I would like to do next year if I do not get accepted to vet school. I've talked to a couple of friends about this. They gave me some good advice and made me think about my situation in different ways.

Here is my current situation:
-I'm graduating with a BSc with Honours in May
-I'll be graduating with a student loan and a line of credit that is almost maxed out
-I've applied to the only vet school I can afford to attend. I find out about interviews at the beginning of March and acceptances are at the beginning of June.
-IMO, the only thing right now that will prevent me from getting an interview and accepted are my chemistry marks and GRE. I do not have time to re-take the GRE before the February deadline. My vet experience is varied and I TONS of extracurriculars. My school doesn't require LORs or personal statements.


Possibly back up plans:

Vet tech program:
- 2 year program
- Tuition + living expenses = ~$20 000
- Guaranteed a job when I graduate
- Wages start at minimum wage, but thet techs I know make ~$14/hour... techs can make more as drug reps for example
- I can boost my vet experience and boost my grades (but not my chemistry grades)
- I know I'd be happy being a tech
- I know a few techs that went through this program. They all started in pre-vet. They didn't get accepted when they completed their BSc, so they applied for this program, and didn't bother applying to vet school again when they completed it. It sounds kind of like a death sentence to me!
- Cannot work while enrolled because it's a heavy courseload
- Deadline is apply is in February

Non-thesis MSc in Animal Behavior and Welfare:
- I think it's 1 year
- Tuition + living expenses = ~$20 000
- I have no idea what I can do with it when I graduate
- It consists of grad-level courses, upper-level undergrad courses and a major paper. If I do well, I can boost my grades on my application, but I doubt I'd be able to boost my chemistry grades.
- Sounds like an interesting program and I'm currently trying to find out more information
- Should probably apply ASAP

Government job for one year:
- I filled out an application online and told them I was interested in summer jobs, temporary jobs and permanent jobs
- Until I get my drivers license, job offers will be limited
- I think I may start getting offers between February and April

Other job for one year:
- Apply for jobs in my hometown
- Upside is that I do not have to pay rent and therefore can pay off more of my debt. I can also take community college courses while in town (can't take courses at a university... closest university is an hour away)
- If I save some money, I could relocate to an area with a university and take more chemistry courses and re-take pre-reqs (by then, general chemistry, intro biology and my two english courses will have expired)
- Downside is that the job market is poor. I'm 95% certain that I'll be stuck working at the call center or back at my fast food job

My friend graduated from community college and it took her 2 years to find a job in her field. In the meantime, she waitressed. She still doesn't have a permanent job, but she's now getting short-term jobs here and there in her field. When I told her about my options, she encouraged me to go the vet tech route because I will have a job when I graduate.

Any words of wisdom? What would you do if you were in my shoes? I'm curious to hear!

I reaaaallly want to continue my schooling, but the thought of going further into debt is scaring the living daylights out of me

I've tried working while in school, but it actually put me further into debt. Next year, I'll be considered an independent student, so my loan calculations will change.

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[that redhead]

Do you mean "back-up plan" as in, what to do between application cycles, or what to do with the rest of your life? (Going to assume you mean between application cycles, for the sake of my reply.)

It's difficult to say, because I don't know how bad your chemistry grades are, what your GPA is, what your GRE is and what kind of animal experiences that you have. If the only thing holding you back are grades in chemistry, I don't think it's really worth the extra cost of repeating chemistry courses (unless they expire and you want to re-apply), assuming your other grades are solid. If your GREs are dismal, work on that on your year off. If your GPA is weak overall, maybe it is worth taking the Masters or even Tech program to bring your grades up.

From my perspective, the "worse" option would be staying at home and working a non-related job. Becoming a certified technician would be good if it can guarantee you a job, but tech work is grueling and while perhaps a good interim job (which is what you're asking), I don't know that you'd want to do that forever. I think the Master's really depends on you, personally. I made the decision not to pursue a Master's or PhD if I don't get in, because from what I understand of the process and the work, etc, it just isn't something I would be happy with. Again, just me. It sounds as though continuing in academia is something you would be happy with. The debt issue is really something you have to deal with personally - an opportunity cost sort of thing.

Anyway, I think preferentially, Master's > Tech program > Hometown.

 

[168135]

It would be between application cycles. This is my first time applying, and I plan on applying next year for sure if I am not accepted this year. I'm trying to figure out what to do next year if not accepted.

At AVC, they calculate your average based on only your pre-reqs. Your marks in Genetics, Microbiology, and two animal science courses make up 30% of that average. The 70% is comprised of 16 courses (3 chemistry, 1 physics, 2 english, 2 math, 3 humanities and 5 electives)

My chemistry and physics marks are in the 57-68 range currently (taking organic II this semester, which will replace my lowest, a 57). My other marks are in the 79-93 range... most of them being in the mid-80s.

My average for AVC sits around ~80.06, which is on the low end. The lowest average of an accepted student was a 77. My GRE is average (would get me 3/5 points on my application... it could change depending on how other applicants do).

AVC looks at your marks and your GRE. The top 30 people I think get an interview and they weed you out from there. I have no idea if I made the cut right now. My average can only increase for AVC, which is good.

If I were to do a tech program or a masters, I would be working at increasing my animal science courses and my electives. My lowest elective is an 82 and my lowest animal science is an 81.

 

[Trilt]

I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but perhaps try for a thesis-based Master's where you could get an assistantship/stipend for the duration? They're usually two years, so you'd have to put off applying for a year, but that would both minimize your debt while allowing you to take higher-level coursework to raise your average.

But most preferably, work your butt off preparing for it if you're selected for an interview and have all of this be a non-issue when you're accepted!

 

[drwildlife]

I'm applying for my first time this next cycle so I'm sort of in the same boat as you.

The only thing I'm worried about is my GPA. I'm mainly looking at Master's degrees. I don't think I would be happy as a veterinary technician even though I would be guaranteed a job. I don't want to be one of those people that's just doing a job for the money and then wind up being miserable.

The way I see it is I could get into research with my master's while I waited for veterinary school if I had too. I'm really into conservation so I'm looking at Reproductive Biology or Wildlife Ecology/Conservation.

 

[Willowhand]

I don't think this falls into any of the categories you mentioned, but there are some really cool internships out there that I was planning on applying to had I not been accepted. Some were unpaid, but there were several long-term (6-12 months) positions which provided room and board. Not a bad deal, especially considering how much experience you'd have on your application next time around. Not to mention the delight of spending your days practicing hands-on skills with live animals. (Ahh, I miss live animals...)

 

[Howister]

I think that the master's program sounds like the best option if you are considering doing research after you graduate from vet school. I would not recommend getting a vet-tech degree as it generally is not worth the money if you don't plan on being a tech for a long period of time. As well, once you are in your second year of vet school, you will have "veterinary technician" status. I think that there a lot of jobs that will hire you even with out a tech degree and you can gain a lot of experience there. As well, if you have a bachelors degree some states will allow you to take the vet-tech test without taking a tech degree program (I am not sure of the specifics of this, but my friend graduated from Cal Poly and did this).

 

[kaydubs]

I don't think this falls into any of the categories you mentioned, but there are some really cool internships out there that I was planning on applying to had I not been accepted. Some were unpaid, but there were several long-term (6-12 months) positions which provided room and board. Not a bad deal, especially considering how much experience you'd have on your application next time around. Not to mention the delight of spending your days practicing hands-on skills with live animals.

I'm thinking of doing the same. I'm graduating in May and I don't foresee myself retaking classes if I can avoid it (as well as avoid additional debt!) I'm prolly going to get more large & small animal experience over the summer and shoot for a fall internship if I can motivate myself enough (I was considering applying for summer ones but I just want to know about my acceptance/rejection status before I apply for more stuff. I don't know about anyone else, but I feel like I've been applying for stuff since I was in kindergarten - I'm now 22 and would love a minor break from the whole application thang!

 

[168135]

It's a little comforting that a lot of you are kind of in the same boat that I am.

I don't think this falls into any of the categories you mentioned, but there are some really cool internships out there that I was planning on applying to had I not been accepted. Some were unpaid, but there were several long-term (6-12 months) positions which provided room and board. Not a bad deal, especially considering how much experience you'd have on your application next time around. Not to mention the delight of spending your days practicing hands-on skills with live animals. (Ahh, I miss live animals...)

I've been keeping that in mind for the past couple of years. If I have to start paying back a student loan, I will have to put that off until after I've been earning an income for a little bit. There is one involving wildlife that I would LOVE to do eventually.

I don't know if I'll be happy doing a thesis-based masters. I definitely can't see myself as the type who teaches classes and does research on the side. I'm doing an honours thesis now... and eh... it's okay.

So far, I've only found one course-based biology masters program in the country. I'm just not thrilled about doing a thesis-based masters for some reason.

 

[katryn]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and recommend working for awhile. If after interviews/acceptances, they tell you your gpa isn't high enough, or your GRE needs work, then move forward to fixing those things. But I really don't recommend putting yourself into more debt doing a masters or vet tech program just to fill the time between cycles. If you are going to do an additional program, do it because it is something you can see yourself working with if you never get into vet school.

 

[dee vee emm]

So far, I've only found one course-based biology masters program in the country. I'm just not thrilled about doing a thesis-based masters for some reason.

Crap sorry I forgot to send you the info for it.. I will get on that tonight...

and for anyone else who's interested I just finished the program... I didn't apply to vet school last year but a few people from my program did and a couple got in, a few are also working with some poultry/chicken organizations...but in Canada you can apply to organizations like CFIA, OMAFRA, AAFC, Dairy Farmers of Ontario, Chicken Farmers of Ontario, Ontario Pork, Poultry Industry Council, etc (I guess some of those are only for Ontario but I'm sure other provinces/states would have the equivalent). Anyways, I have more info if anyone wants it!

 

[New Foundland]

scarcely, are you sure you don't want to try and take the GRE again?
The deadline is actually February 28th, and marks don't take that long to get sent to the university nowadays do they?

It might be worth it to you to put absolutely everything you have into GRE study and write it again in early february.
If you can gain 1-1.5 points in the GRE portion with a great mark, that is about the equivalent of bumping up both one physics AND one chemistry by 23-35%

Maybe easier said than done to do really great on the GRE, but theres a lot of time between now and the deadline, so maybe you could reconsider.
Of course it would be up to you to decide whether trying that is worthwhile.

 

[168135]

scarcely, are you sure you don't want to try and take the GRE again?
The deadline is actually February 28th, and marks don't take that long to get sent to the university nowadays do they?

I can't.

I'd have to miss three days of school in order to take it and spend $100-$150 on traveling. The testing center is 5 hours away and they only test during the weekdays.

Haha... I just had to chose the university at the other end of the province that's awaaay from everything.

The only time I can write it is reading week (starts February 21st) ... but the scores will not be available before the deadline. If not accepted, I will probably re-take it this summer.

I should have re-taken it over the holidays... but it's still difficult to find someone to take me to the city to write it.

I know... excuses, excuses... but I'm working on it! One step at a time... right now, I'm trying to get my drivers license so I don't have to depend on other people for things like this.

Maybe that masters program wouldn't be a good fit for me... I'm vegetarian... so the thought of working for the pork or chicken industry makes me a little uncomfortable lol.

 

[mhlaur]

I thought I should also point out that Masters level courses will not help you get into AVC. I would recommend trying to find work with animals or research which may require moving. There are lots of great volunteer opportunities all over the world that provide housing. Or maybe take extra courses at NSAC where you can probably gain some experience with farm animals. All depends on what they tell after the application process this year. They will let you know what you can improve on if you ask. Did you look into the idea of getting PEI residency? Not a lot of great work opportunities here unfortunately.

"Graduate courses:
In order to assess all applicants based on the same criteria, the use of graduate course grades in the academic average of prerequisite courses will not be permitted if an undergraduate grade for an eligible course is available."

 

[168135]

"Graduate courses:
In order to assess all applicants based on the same criteria, the use of graduate course grades in the academic average of prerequisite courses will not be permitted if an undergraduate grade for an eligible course is available."

Thanks for reminding me of that. Haha, I guess grad school is out of the question!

I said I was willing to work all over PEI when I applied for the government jobs, so we'll see where that takes me.

 

[168135]

Actually... I looked at the information that dee vee emm gave me and the masters program really appeals to me.

There is a student from my hometown who is currently enrolled in the program. She applied to AVC at least once, was rejected, enrolled in the masters and is applying again. Hopefully she can give me some advice, tell me more about the program, and tell me about why she chose that route. The successful applicants I know have extremely good grades... and the future applicants I know have really good grades... I just really want to talk to someone who is in the same situation as I am and see how they're dealing with it.

I'm also now thinking about taking classes at the local agriculture college... I decided not to do pre-vet there because the school just didn't seem like a good fit for me and the students seemed really competative. I'm thinking about working until the end of the year and enrolling for a semester in January. A semester isn't going to kill me... and at least AVC will look at my grades!

The more I think about it, the more I want to continue on with my schooling. I LOVE biology. I am AWESOME at biology. I'm currently frowning at my schedule because I'd rather be taking environmental physiology and chordate isntead of organic chemistry II and stats II (darn you vet school pre-reqs!).

Right now, I attend a small university that has no agriculture or animal science courses so I'm craving to take a course about mammology, reproduction, animal nutrition... the closest thing my school has is biomechanics (you dissect a cow limb and a cat to learn how their joints work) but I missed my chance to take it.

Sorry for the rambling... your advice really helped... and now some of my stress is gone.

 

[Coquette22]

I'm also now thinking about taking classes at the local agriculture college... I decided not to do pre-vet there because the school just didn't seem like a good fit for me and the students seemed really competative.

I didn't find it competitive. I think my current school is more competitive than the AC was, and by the sounds of it, your current school is too. It definitely wasn't a good fit though, at least not for me.

Would it be possible for you to do a 3 course semester? The extra time would mean you could work to support yourself.

 

[168135]

My current school is more cliquey than competitive... and the cliques are defined by where they went to highschool. Since I didn't go to highschool in the area, I haven't quite fit in lol.

Yeah, I can probably take 3 courses and work... I'm a little nervous about doing that though. I worked part-time in 2nd and 3rd year and it actually caused me to go further into debt (darn student loan!)

I was thinking of working until December to lower my current debt before going back to school.

 

[Coquette22]

My current school is more cliquey than competitive... and the cliques are defined by where they went to highschool. Since I didn't go to highschool in the area, I haven't quite fit in lol.

Then avoid the AC. It was immensely cliquey. One of my big worries is that if/when I get into AVC, since the majority of NS students come out of the AC, I'll STILL be on the outside of those cliques. The other two girls interviewing with me last year plus the student giving the tour were ALL from the AC. And all knew each other.

 

[168135]

Then avoid the AC. It was immensely cliquey. One of my big worries is that if/when I get into AVC, since the majority of NS students come out of the AC, I'll STILL be on the outside of those cliques. The other two girls interviewing with me last year plus the student giving the tour were ALL from the AC. And all knew each other.

Omg, I have the exact same fear.

 

[Coquette22]

Omg, I have the exact same fear.

My plan at this point is to try to buddy up to the International students and the handful of students who also came from non-traditional schools, who probably know nobody. It doesn't help that I'm painfully shy, to the point of having panic attacks over meeting new people.

 

[168135]

Hehe... I hang out in the chem center with the chem students. I met one in first year and another knows my boyfriend... plus, my lab is in the chem wing for some reason, which helps! Whenever I need a break, I walk down the hall to see who is around.

I used to have panic attacks over meeting new people... and even though that's stopped, my university experience still hasn't been very fun. I can't wait to leave.

 

[GellaBella]

why don't you guys apply to vet schools in the USA? Sure, your odds are low but it seems like your odds are against you at your 1 canadian school anyway. Plus I have never heard anyone talk about their universities in the USA as being super cliquey...I mean, sure cliques do exist but most college students are going to colleges away from home so they don't know anyone, or maybe a small handful of people. Every university I have ever attended has had nothing but welcoming, fun, 'want to be your friend' students.

i know money is a concern but aren't there loans you can take out? Most of us are going to be 100k+ in debt afterwards, it seems crazy to have to rely on getting into 1 school in the entire country.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

Agreed on the American schools. I don't know what your stats are, but some of the programs here have been a lot more forgiving than I anticipated. (I applied to five schools, and have gotten one rejection, one interview, one apparent interview waitlist... and I'm still waiting on the other two.) I expected zero interest. (In my rejection dreams, it's a toss up as to whether the admissions department goes into hysterics or recoils with horror upon viewing my application. ) You might have more luck than you anticipate. The odds may seem lower here, but there are a lot more schools, and seeing as everyone seems to be looking for slightly different things, I'd think it might pay off.

 

[Coquette22]

Simple: Salary. Vets in Canada don't make NEAR enough money to consider taking on $100,000+ in loans. Since Canadians don't typically need that much, the profession doesn't pay enough to pay it off.

 

[168135]

I don't even think we have access to as many programs as Americans do for loans.

I calculated the costs... more like $250 000+ for vet school and living expenses and the probably of getting a scholarship with my grades are pretty slim!

 

[roughleggedhawk]

One of my big worries is that if/when I get into AVC, since the majority of NS students come out of the AC, I'll STILL be on the outside of those cliques.

We'll just have to make our own SDN clique then, won't we.

 

[168135]

We'll just have to make our own SDN clique then, won't we.

I like that idea

 

[Coquette22]

I am totally okay with an AVC SDN clique.

 

[kaydubs]

It doesn't help that I'm painfully shy, to the point of having panic attacks over meeting new people.

I definitely hear that. I am pretty much the same way when it comes to meeting new people...

 

[168135]

I get all panicky when I hang out with a group and they ignore me by talking about people that I don't know and won't let me get a word in otherwise. It happens waaaay too frequently to me.

 

[nyanko]

I get all panicky when I hang out with a group and they ignore me by talking about people that I don't know and won't let me get a word in otherwise. It happens waaaay too frequently to me.

This happens to every person all the time. The difference is that most people don't take it personally and freak out. Maybe you shouldn't, either..

 

[168135]

Maybe you should get a life and quit stalking my threads.

Three people admitted to having the same problem I do, and you decide to butt into the middle of the conversation and take it out on me?

How rude.

And who said that I freak out? How do I freak out? Do you know someone who stood there and watched me freak out?

Seriously?

 

[New Foundland]

why don't you guys apply to vet schools in the USA? Sure, your odds are low but it seems like your odds are against you at your 1 canadian school anyway. Plus I have never heard anyone talk about their universities in the USA as being super cliquey...I mean, sure cliques do exist but most college students are going to colleges away from home so they don't know anyone, or maybe a small handful of people. Every university I have ever attended has had nothing but welcoming, fun, 'want to be your friend' students.

i know money is a concern but aren't there loans you can take out? Most of us are going to be 100k+ in debt afterwards, it seems crazy to have to rely on getting into 1 school in the entire country.

The perception of "cliquey" is naturally wayy too subjective and variable to suggest that there might be some big difference between US and canadian schools.

As some have pointed out about the money "concern", it's a matter of going in debt about 250k (in US) vs 80-100k (in Can). Considering interest, this difference is not to be taken lightly.

 

[Coquette22]

I'd also like to point out that I never said that I worried that the vet school itself would be cliquey, just that some of them might carry over from smaller undergraduate schools. I'd wager that 90% of the NS students going to AVC come from one specific school because it's the only school in NS that bills itself as having a "pre-vet" program. There's still the NB, PEI, NL and International students.

So on second thought, I may be worrying over nothing. Especially because I have yet to be accepted.

 

[168135]

I'd also like to point out that I never said that I worried that the vet school itself would be cliquey, just that some of them might carry over from smaller undergraduate schools. I'd wager that 90% of the NS students going to AVC come from one specific school because it's the only school in NS that bills itself as having a "pre-vet" program. There's still the NB, PEI, NL and International students.

I'm currently experiencing that now. I'm the only person, in my year of my program, that did not attend one of the four high schools in the area, and as a result, I'm finding it difficult fit in because they've all known each other for the past 7 years, and I've only showed up within the last 2.

I'm not very worried about vet school being cliquey. I know five students currently attending: 3 come from that specific school, and 2 went to different schools. And there are 20 international students (is that number correct?) which is quite a significant number, and I met a few of you on SDN which probably helps things. I'm just hoping that what they say about vet school is true... we all want to see each other succeed and that people are mature enough to help each other. We've all come from different backgrounds... all have aquired different amounts of knowledge... I donno how to word this at the moment, but I'll try after class!

 

[168135]

I was just doing some thinking... and I realized that working and taking courses at the agriculture isn't a smart move. One of the downsides of that town is that the university is outside of town and there is no public transportation. If I live by the school, I have to pay $$$ for a cab to take me to work. If I live in town, I have to pay $$$ for a cab to take me to work. And $$$ for a cab if I need groceries... or want to go to the mall... or go to the movies (do they even have a theatre there?)... or to go bowling... if the cab prices there are anything like they are here, it'll be $10 minimum to get there and back.

That's how I ended up losing money by working while in university. If I made $3000 for example, they took exactly $3000 off of my student loan the following year. I was paying $11.25 each shift I worked when I lived in residence, and $6-$12 when I moved into the city (well, I paid nothing when I walked... but it was a 30 minute walk) It would be very stupid of me to just go off to university and bank on getting a job on campus. I tried that here, but they're more interested in hiring students with disabilities and international students (I used to run a store by myself... why wouldn't they hire me at the convenience store where I would be working... by myself? Is it because I had to do my interview over the phone, and couldn't meet with you in person like everyone else??)

If I'm going to take courses AND work, I should look at attending a school that at least has public transport... the closest one that has animal courses is Guelph I think. I should look into how much it costs to live there... I know it would financially kill me to attend university part-time in Halifax. Yes, they have awesome public transport, but rent and tuition are CRAZY.

 

[New Foundland]

Scarcely, if you're going to move somewhere and live on your own, wouldn't your best option be to try and gain PEI residency?
If you move there before this september, then you could work for a year, apply as a NS resident in october of this year, and then in 2012 you could apply as a PEI resident, and in september of 2012 you will have already had your 12 months working logged and therefore be allowed to take courses during Fall 2012 and Winter 2013 that would raise your prereq avg on your 2012 application.

You had initially said money was a problem, which is why I assumed you werent planning on moving to PEI..
but now if you say you might be moving to some random place to live on your own... then why not PEI??

* sorry in case you answered this before and i missed it

 

[Coquette22]

If you wanted to gain PEI residency, would living with an SDNer help? Maybe put some feelers out once the acceptances come out in June. It would keep your living expenses down, and get you residency, then you could reapply later.

If you wanted to do Halifax, you could stay with me. I'm tired of paying $700 a month in rent. But that doesn't help the residency thing. Dal's tuition is kind of stupidly high, I have no idea about SMU or MSVU.

 

[jsp132]

Unfortunately since i can only attend class in evenings the only major I can get in biology is environmental biology not like the nice pre professional and animal science specialization

will it matter since I will still be taking the ochem 1, 2 physics etc etc

and will my job prospects be hurt to? if by that time im not accepted to any vet schools

 

[Coquette22]

Unfortunately since i can only attend class in evenings the only major I can get in biology is environmental biology not like the nice pre professional and animal science specialization

will it matter since I will still be taking the ochem 1, 2 physics etc etc

and will my job prospects be hurt to? if by that time im not accepted to any vet schools

Vet schools absolutely don't care what major you're taking, as long as the pre-reqs are there and the marks are good, so don't fret about that.

Unfortunately, I can't answer about job prospects. Can you talk to an advisor at your school?

 

[168135]

If you wanted to gain PEI residency, would living with an SDNer help? Maybe put some feelers out once the acceptances come out in June. It would keep your living expenses down, and get you residency, then you could reapply later.

That's not a bad idea. I told the government I was willing to work in PEI. I should start hearing things soon.

Ahh... 2013 seems soooo far away.

I'm probably freaking out over nothing.
Then again, my parents like to freak out over nothing... that's probably where I got it from.

Personally... I'm a little worried about having to pay my student loan back if I take a year off. I know I can apply for debt deferment... but I have no idea how much I'm going to have to pay a month. Will I be able to afford rent, groceries, transportation AND a student loan payment? I do know the right person to talk to about this. I should do that.

 

[Coquette22]

I'm probably freaking out over nothing.

There is that. I'd accuse you of being a worry-wort, but I tend to be like that too. (I have Plans. And I can get very discombobulated when Plans don't work out. ).