Advice on how to generate a list of psychiatry residencies to apply to?

[cryhavoc]

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So I'm a B+ student with occasional A's. Never failed a class or rotation. Led clubs and did volunteering. Had research experience in college but never published. I did just barely fail my first board on my first attempt and it very well my second attempt. Osteopathic student.

I'm assuming that first failure on level 1 will really hurt me, my academic advisors made it sound like I didn't have a chance anymore but psychiatry is my passion and is all I ever wanted to do. So I'm not sure where I should plan to apply to? I'm trying to generate a good list of like 40-60 places but I don't know if I should apply to more or less. I'm more interested in clinical/community than research. Completely willing to live anywhere that let's me follow my dream.

So my questions are;

1) Roughly how many places should I apply to?

2) How should I go about making a list? Mostly pick rural places? See what places went to scramble? Mostly apply to former AOA places? I'm assuming I no longer have a chance at anywhere competitive because of my level 1 failure. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Look at new places, and look at places that matched DOs this round. Try and do a sub-I at a place you have a shot at. I think looking at places that scramble isn't a good idea, it is only a few programs and this may reflect program arrogance more than anything else, or worse it may reflect seriously flawed places. Does you school let you see this year's match results? Did many go into psych? Maybe you can ask upper classmen where they got interviews.

 

[cryhavoc]

Look at new places, and look at places that matched DOs this round. Try and do a sub-I at a place you have a shot at. I think looking at places that scramble isn't a good idea, it is only a few programs and this may reflect program arrogance more than anything else, or worse it may reflect seriously flawed places. Does you school let you see this year's match results? Did many go into psych? Maybe you can ask upper classmen where they got interviews.

Not many went into psych. I'm not sure if that was from lack of interest or they couldn't get in. The few who did got into some impressive places so I'm worried their application was stronger than mine will be and that their advice might not work for me.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Maybe not, but failing a step is about the only measure that cuts even through all schools but it isn't fatal in a lot of cases. Look for DO friendly places and be flexible about location and you can possibly get your specialty of choice. Cover you tail with some back ups, but maybe you will not need to. Do it anyway just in case, but 5 years ago, no psychiatry program would be able to say this and point to other specialties and describe them as back ups. There is still room for a lot of applicants, but it is getting tighter and will continue to do so. I selfishly hope this trend continues, but of course meeting nice applicants who deserve a chance makes it a bitter sweet sea change. Just do your best with what school you have left and think broadly. Best wishes.

 

[splik]

well for a start, apply to all the AOA approved psych residencies as they may be your best shot. then also apply for all the rural-ish ones (e.g. missouri, east carolina, west virginia, maine, penn state, north dakota, lsu-shreveport, ETSU, geisinger, arnot ogden, carle, central michigan, MCW- wausau, southern illinois, MCW-green bay, texas tech permian basin, UT rio grande valley, baystate, north dakota, south dakota, coliseum etc). Also if you speak spanish fluently you could apply to the programs in puerto rico. also apply to some "reach programs" that you might be interested in. by reach, I mean mid-tier programs that take DO students. in which case, consider applying to do away rotations at those programs.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Hay Splik, you should throw a couple of top tier places in your list just to poke the bear and see if any of them respond with vitriol and vinegar. Humility and a sense of humor are as rare as hen's teeth in this game.

 

[NickNaylor]

Take a look at the NRMP's Charting the Outcomes data. This will give you a rough sense of how applicants similar to you in a broad sense fared in the residency application process.

Here's how I chose programs:

- My wife and I had a discussion about areas we at least wouldn't be unhappy living in for 4 years. Any programs in areas that we did not want to live in were eliminated. This resulted in a fairly large list of programs - more than I "needed" to apply to. Based on the information you provided, you may not have this luxury and it doesn't sound like location is a concern for you anyway.

- From there, I started researching programs individually. Were there things that the program advertised that stuck out to me? Were there things that were deal-breakers? I used any information I could find to rule-in/rule-out programs for my final application list. This actually left me with a more reasonable number of programs. Again, you may or may not have this luxury, and you may have to be more compromising with less ideal programs.

- Now you have to start thinking about applying "smartly." Are you a competitive applicant (check out the NRMP data to get a sense of this)? Are there specific areas that you're really wanting to go to? If you're a highly competitive applicant, you can likely eliminate "weaker" or "less competitive" programs that remain on your list after the first two steps above. If you're a less competitive applicant, you may need to keep your list broad and/or put some of the programs back on your list that you have previously eliminated. If you're left with a list that doesn't seem reasonable, you may need to have a come-to-Jesus moment with yourself and determine what is truly important to you and what isn't with respect to eliminating programs. Based on the information that you've provided, you are in the "less competitive applicant" category, thus you will need a broader list than people that are more competitive.

- Find someone who can serve as an honest mentor and help you through the application process. This may be the PD at your home program, a faculty member who is routinely involved in student advising and/or resident selection, and/or previous applicants from your program. Ideally you can get input from all three. The more individualized and personalized advice the better, because it's hard to give advice in a forum like this where information is necessarily general and may or may not be applicable to you. You need to have people review the whole of your application so that they know everything that programs will see to provide the best advice to you.

 

[MoonCheese]

Take the shotgun approach and apply to every single program. Will set you back about 7k but sometimes you gotta pay the troll toll.

 

[cryhavoc]

Take the shotgun approach and apply to every single program. Will set you back about 7k but sometimes you gotta pay the troll toll.

Any advice on affording this? I would completely apply to every single one and fly to every interview I could if I had the money. Like paying for my boards and my bills this semester with the maximum amount of loans has me eating ramen most days. I have no clue how I’m going to afford everything next year.

Are there like loans I can take for a year even though I’m unemployed to pay for these extra expenses?

 

[cryhavoc]

Hay Splik, you should throw a couple of top tier places in your list just to poke the bear and see if any of them respond with vitriol and vinegar. Humility and a sense of humor are as rare as hen's teeth in this game.

I’ll apply to a few like this for fun. I have gotten a lot of jobs and opportunities over the years with a less than great resume. I just need the chance to talk to people, hopefully they don’t just throw my application in the trash.

 

[mbgr2014]

Similar to NickNaylor's style, I created a spreadsheet filled with ALL residency programs available in states I'd be willing to go to (taking note of which states I skipped over if I felt later on, I'd need to add more.) I stratified them by what I believed my chances were with my Step 1 score and regional bias. I made a relatively long list of applications because I didn't have Step 2 or my away letter yet, and I preferred to be prepared for the worst but hope for the best. Then I trimmed it down based on my interest in the programs.

Definitely use the data from NRMP/ERAS to determine how many interviews to go on and how many applications to send. For my stats the sweet spot was around 50 apps and I added on a few extra. I don't regret my strategy one bit.

 

[MoonCheese]

Any advice on affording this? I would completely apply to every single one and fly to every interview I could if I had the money. Like paying for my boards and my bills this semester with the maximum amount of loans has me eating ramen most days. I have no clue how I’m going to afford everything next year.

Are there like loans I can take for a year even though I’m unemployed to pay for these extra expenses?

What I did was that I took out a loan with Sally Mae that they specifically have for applying to residencies . They give u a max of 20k , and you don’t have to make any payments for 9months. Interest rate is manageable ~ like 8% I think. In retrospect it was a bit excessive as I ended up matching at a program that was on my schools previous match list. But in the end of the day it is a numbers game and the match process is long and anxiety inducing and every interview helps w confidence .

 

[cryhavoc]

What I did was that I took out a loan with Sally Mae that they specifically have for applying to residencies . They give u a max of 20k , and you don’t have to make any payments for 9months. Interest rate is manageable ~ like 8% I think. In retrospect it was a bit excessive as I ended up matching at a program that was on my schools previous match list. But in the end of the day it is a numbers game and the match process is long and anxiety inducing and every interview helps w confidence .

I knew nothing about this so thank you, definitely wanna go overkill here. I did fail my first shot after all. I’d be devastated if I didn’t match given how much debt I am in.

 

[ridethecliche]

Pick geography, then shotgun.

 

[whopper]

Use the following algorithm....

1) Location, 2) Training strengths & weaknesses of the program 3) Lifestyle.

Which of the above 3 you want to put 1st, 2nd or 3rd is up to you and your situation. E.g. if you got a dying father location will likely matter to you way more than lifestyle. You'll likely want something where you can see your dad at least once in awhile. YEah an extreme example but it clarifies the point.

Apply to programs shooting to get at least 7 interviews. The more the better but you can also overdo it, but better to err of the side of safety.

 

[cryhavoc]

Use the following algorithm....

1) Location, 2) Training strengths & weaknesses of the program 3) Lifestyle.

Which of the above 3 you want to put 1st, 2nd or 3rd is up to you and your situation. E.g. if you got a dying father location will likely matter to you way more than lifestyle. You'll likely want something where you can see your dad at least once in awhile. YEah an extreme example but it clarifies the point.

Apply to programs shooting to get at least 7 interviews. The more the better but you can also overdo it, but better to err of the side of safety.

Do you think seven will be enough? I thought like an average candidate needed 10, but because of my second board attempt, I’d need more like 20?

Honestly worried because my school doesn’t give a lot of time for interviews.

 

[whopper]

7 won't be enough for everyone and I don't know you well enough.
It's better to err on the side of having more than you need than not enough. I tell people it's like applying to college. You'd likely figure out that doing 40 interviews is overkill. But the problem here is when I give out information there's always going to be people on that minority end of the spectrum (e.g. maybe they got real bad breath and don't realize it) that interviewed at 10 and thought they were fine cause "you told me so!" when I did not and flunk each one cause of the bad breath that I unapologetically can't smell on my side of the screen.

 

[hallowmann]

Do you think seven will be enough? I thought like an average candidate needed 10, but because of my second board attempt, I’d need more like 20?

Honestly worried because my school doesn’t give a lot of time for interviews.

20 is not an unreasonable number, and I'd say 15 should be the bare minimum given your situation. It would be virtually impossible to do 30-40, because of cost, time off from rotations, etc., and honestly when you get that high, you're talking about diminishing returns.

Shotgun approach is certainly one method, but I would at least narrow down by states you'd tolerate or clear reaches and then shotgun, but then again I'm not in your shoes and the stress of application season is very real. There's >200 programs out there, probably 30-50 are out of reach, then there will be some that aren't DO friendly or have heavy regional bias. As others have recommended, start with a long list, research programs, and then work your way through narrowing the list a bit.

 

[cryhavoc]

So let’s say there are 25-30 states I’d totally be comfortable doing a residency at. Should I just apply to every psych residency in those states?

I would like to additionally apply to every DO friendly psych residency if I could find a good list of AOA, former AOA, etc.

I honestly just want to match somewhere. Psych is my only interest and that failed COMLEX 1 makes me very nervous.

 

[cryhavoc]

What I did was that I took out a loan with Sally Mae that they specifically have for applying to residencies . They give u a max of 20k , and you don’t have to make any payments for 9months. Interest rate is manageable ~ like 8% I think. In retrospect it was a bit excessive as I ended up matching at a program that was on my schools previous match list. But in the end of the day it is a numbers game and the match process is long and anxiety inducing and every interview helps w confidence .

About when do you need to apply for this loan (like months or weeks before submitting ERas, etc.) How long do you have until you start having to make payments? Is it short term like you have to pay it back right away or just payments?

Thanks .

 

[NickNaylor]

So let’s say there are 25-30 states I’d totally be comfortable doing a residency at. Should I just apply to every psych residency in those states?

I would like to additionally apply to every DO friendly psych residency if I could find a good list of AOA, former AOA, etc.

I honestly just want to match somewhere. Psych is my only interest and that failed COMLEX 1 makes me very nervous.

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable approach apart from the potential cost of doing so.

 

[cryhavoc]

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable approach apart from the potential cost of doing so.

I would pay any price. I’ve been told by many people I have no chance of ever being a psychiatrist and it is the only job I want. It has been my dream most of my life. I don’t know how but I will continue to find a way even if it takes me years. Even if I have to become a doctor in a different specialty and then go back and do a psych residency.

I’m very committed, but also very disheartened by how many people have told me it is impossible.

 

[mbgr2014]

I would pay any price. I’ve been told by many people I have no chance of ever being a psychiatrist and it is the only job I want. It has been my dream most of my life. I don’t know how but I will continue to find a way even if it takes me years. Even if I have to become a doctor in a different specialty and then go back and do a psych residency.

I’m very committed, but also very disheartened by how many people have told me it is impossible.

Wow. I'm sorry that you have so many people trying to dissuade you. The odds are against you, mostly due to your board troubles, but they're not 100%. I encourage you to channel your energy into writing a kick-ass personal statement and doing anything you can before September to increase your chances.

I say go for it in general, but maybe have a plan B as well (as you alluded to in your last post) with the chance of a transfer if you can't train in your top choice specialty. No reason to give up on it, but apply to some FM or TY too to have a chance. A 2018 grad from my school failed to match into psych last year, but did a TY and will start in psychiatry this year!

 

[Desired Member]

I'm a DO student who matched in psych this year. These are my opinions:
Don't apply to all psych programs bc that would be a waste of money. I suggest you print a list of all psych residency programs and do internet research on every lesser-known program (skip places like Columbia, Yale etc). You can search programs' websites and often see who their residents are, etc. If the program is new, formerly AOA, and/or there are multiple IMG's and DO's, it is likely more attainable for you as a DO student with a red flag, and you should apply. Caveat - I wouldn't apply to sketchy programs (there are some in places like NYC, reportedly) or anywhere you think you would be miserable for whatever reason.
I would apply family med for backup if I were you (because I am risk-averse).
Finally, in the weeks leading up to interviews, I would prepare answers to common interview questions and practice with family and friends. I would go on as many interviews as possible.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

Anyone have suggestions on psychiatry residencies where you don't need a car to get around? I'm not too keen on living in the NYC, Boston, Philly, or the NE in general. Seems like those are the most competitive residencies, and I'm not gonna kill myself in med school to be competitive for locations that don't interest me...

It would also be great if the residency had CAP, forensics, and a psychotherapy or psychoanalytic institute attached to it as that is what I plan to do long term.

Only places that I can think of that fit that could fit the ball are Miami, Chicago, or Portland. Maaaaybe Tulane, but I think I'd need a car to do the forensics rotation. Does anyone know the general competitiveness of these places? And if it's possible to live in these areas as a resident without a car? I have a car for med school, I just haaaate servicing it and constantly worrying if it's gonna break down. And all the fees associated with car ownership.

I'm a US MD Student attending a Top 10 if that helps, more concerned with fit (location, don't need a car, psychotherapy, forensics, and CAP exposure) than I am with prestige when it comes to residency.

Thanks!

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I think NYC has some of the best programs, but it has the full range including some not so good places. Most cities that are good at public transportation are in the NE. I think you could add Washington DC and San Francisco to your list. A lot of this is about where you live and how centralized programs are. If you live very close to your hospital and there aren't away rotations all over the place, this is possible. Find somewhere with good weather and get a bike. Uber once in a while to the store and night life. It also sounds like just getting a more reliable vehicle will be more likely.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I beg to differ about Los Angeles: % of house holds without a car

City	2009	2010	2015	2016	2015-16 Average
New York, New York	54.3%	55.6%	54.5%	54.4%	54.4%
Newark, New Jersey	36.0%	39.0%	39.2%	40.3%	39.8%
Jersey City, New Jersey	38.9%	37.3%	40.1%	37.1%	38.6%
Washington, District of Columbia	35.2%	35.0%	36.2%	37.3%	36.7%
Boston, Massachusetts	34.6%	36.5%	35.4%	33.8%	34.6%
Cambridge, Massachusetts	30.7%	32.6%	30.9%	36.8%	33.9%
Paterson, New Jersey	30.8%	28.1%	33.6%	33.0%	33.3%
Hartford, Connecticut	33.8%	39.2%	30.3%	32.6%	31.5%
San Francisco, California	30.3%	30.6%	31.2%	29.9%	30.6%
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania	32.9%	34.6%	31.1%	29.5%	30.3%
New Haven, Connecticut	26.6%	26.9%	30.4%	29.2%	29.8%
Baltimore, Maryland	30.0%	30.6%	30.7%	28.9%	29.8%
Buffalo, New York	30.3%	31.1%	30.0%	28.2%	29.1%
Syracuse, New York	23.9%	26.0%	26.4%	29.2%	27.8%
Elizabeth, New Jersey	25.4%	22.6%	28.3%	25.8%	27.0%
Chicago, Illinois	26.6%	26.3%	26.5%	27.5%	27.0%
Rochester, New York	25.8%	26.4%	26.8%	26.5%	26.6%
Detroit, Michigan	21.9%	23.5%	25.3%	24.7%	25.0%
Yonkers, New York	22.9%	23.7%	24.6%	23.5%	24.0%
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania	27.2%	24.0%	23.9%	23.4%	23.6%
Cleveland, Ohio	24.7%	23.4%	23.5%	23.7%	23.6%
Springfield, Massachusetts	19.8%	22.1%	20.8%	22.2%	21.5%
Berkeley, California	20.7%	22.7%	19.8%	23.1%	21.5%
Bridgeport, Connecticut	20.5%	22.8%	22.1%	20.1%	21.1%
Dayton, Ohio	19.3%	18.8%	22.2%	19.0%	20.6%
Waterbury, Connecticut	17.6%	21.2%	20.4%	20.6%	20.5%
Cincinnati, Ohio	23.1%	19.2%	19.3%	21.2%	20.3%
Providence, Rhode Island	19.8%	19.2%	21.7%	18.0%	19.9%
Worcester, Massachusetts	16.1%	19.5%	19.6%	19.3%	19.5%
New Orleans, Louisiana	18.2%	18.8%	18.8%	20.2%	19.5%
Miami, Florida	19.2%	20.9%	19.9%	18.6%	19.2%
St. Louis, Missouri	21.6%	21.6%	19.7%	18.5%	19.1%
Milwaukee, Wisconsin	17.3%	17.2%	17.9%	18.7%	18.3%
Allentown, Pennsylvania	17.9%	23.4%	19.2%	16.9%	18.0%
Minneapolis, Minnesota	17.5%	19.1%	18.2%	17.1%	17.6%
Lowell, Massachusetts	16.5%	14.6%	17.6%	16.9%	17.2%
Richmond, Virginia	20.2%	16.4%	16.4%	18.0%	17.2%
Oakland, California	16.7%	19.1%	17.3%	16.7%	17.0%
Honolulu, Hawaii		17.5%	16.6%	17.2%	16.9%
Seattle, Washington	15.0%	15.7%	16.6%	17.1%	16.8%
Peoria, Illinois	11.7%	12.6%	16.5%	15.4%	15.9%
Atlanta, Georgia	15.9%	17.5%	15.2%	16.4%	15.8%
Paradise, Nevada	13.1%	13.7%	15.2%	15.4%	15.3%
Portland, Oregon	13.9%	15.7%	14.7%	13.7%	14.2%
Birmingham, Alabama	13.6%	14.9%	15.8%	12.3%	14.0%
Toledo, Ohio	13.8%	13.6%	14.7%	13.3%	14.0%
Savannah, Georgia	13.6%	15.6%	13.9%	13.7%	13.8%
Akron, Ohio	15.1%	16.2%	14.5%	12.9%	13.7%
St. Paul, Minnesota	15.7%	16.6%	13.3%	13.5%	13.4%
Macon-Bibb County, Georgia			13.2%	13.3%	13.3%
Arlington, Virginia	10.9%	12.3%	13.4%	12.7%	13.1%
Tucson, Arizona	12.5%	11.0%	14.4%	11.7%	13.0%
South Bend, Indiana	11.7%	10.5%	12.5%	13.6%	13.0%
Lansing, Michigan	13.1%	10.5%	12.6%	13.4%	13.0%
Norfolk, Virginia	10.2%	11.2%	10.6%	15.0%	12.8%
Rockford, Illinois	11.4%	11.6%	11.9%	13.4%	12.6%
East Los Angeles, California	14.9%	14.0%	13.0%	12.0%	12.5%
Everett, Washington	8.9%	10.7%	13.2%	11.6%	12.4%
Hialeah, Florida	14.7%	13.6%	12.6%	12.2%	12.4%
Shreveport, Louisiana	11.8%	11.9%	11.0%	13.6%	12.3%
Grand Rapids, Michigan	11.6%	12.9%	12.5%	12.0%	12.2%
Los Angeles, California	12.7%	13.2%	12.1%	12.2%	12.1%

 

[Stagg737]

So I'm a B+ student with occasional A's. Never failed a class or rotation. Led clubs and did volunteering. Had research experience in college but never published. I did just barely fail my first board on my first attempt and it very well my second attempt. Osteopathic student.

I'm assuming that first failure on level 1 will really hurt me, my academic advisors made it sound like I didn't have a chance anymore but psychiatry is my passion and is all I ever wanted to do. So I'm not sure where I should plan to apply to? I'm trying to generate a good list of like 40-60 places but I don't know if I should apply to more or less. I'm more interested in clinical/community than research. Completely willing to live anywhere that let's me follow my dream.

So my questions are;

1) Roughly how many places should I apply to?

2) How should I go about making a list? Mostly pick rural places? See what places went to scramble? Mostly apply to former AOA places? I'm assuming I no longer have a chance at anywhere competitive because of my level 1 failure. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

I've been meaning to respond to this post for a while since I can relate to it pretty well, but have a long and in-depth response so wanted to have the time to do it justice.

I'm also a DO (current psych intern) who had a pretty poor pre-clinical resume (bottom 10% of class, poor board scores [no failures], failed and had to repeat a class, no USMLE scores) who did decently with the match and ended up at my top choice. Your board failure will hurt, but can be made up for. Have VERY strong LORs and clinical comments in your MSPE if possible. I also did very well in clinical years (not many honors, but very solid shelf scores and outstanding comments from attendings) which I was consistently told look impressive compared to my pre-clinical resume. As for actually applying, here's what I did:

1. Print out a list of all psych programs in the country (I printed this list from FRIEDA).
2. If you don't have a USMLE score, go through FRIEDA and cross out all programs that require it (I think there were only about 10 that explicitly stated this when I applied).
3. Visit the websites of every program and look at their current residents. If there are no DOs or only 1, then cross it out (as you're not getting in as a DO unless you've either got connections or are a superstar). If the website doesn't have a "current residents" section then cross it out. There were only 1 or 2 that this applied to (both in NYC area I believe) and I know that at least one of them is basically a funnel for a specific Carib school.

This should pare things down to around 160-180 programs to look into. After this, get some highlighters (any colors you choose, I did blue, yellow, and pink) and start to stratify the remaining programs. Green/blue is best chance (apply to 100% of them), yellow is borderline, red/pink are long-shots (everything else was already Xed out with a big black sharpie). Here's how I decided where programs got placed:

1. Any program that was formerly AOA (will be obvious because they will have at least 3 classes which are only DOs) went in the green pile. These programs will be most likely to give you a look and if you're a marginal candidate you'd be foolish not to apply to all of them (unless there is one that you would legitimately be miserable at).

2. Next I looked at geography and USMD:"everyone else" ratio. Programs that were in contiguous states to my med school which had a decent number of non-USMDs (my general cutoff was at least 25% non-USMD) went in the green pile. Schools that had a decent number of non-USMDs but weren't near me went in the yellow pile. Schools that were near me but had low numbers of DOs also went in the yellow pile. Schools that were far away and almost all USMDs went into the pink pile.

*Note for rule 2: There are one or two "elite" programs which have quite a few FMGs and thus have a higher number of "everyone else" residents than almost any other competitive program. As a marginal candidate, I would count those programs like they were an all USMD program as those FMGs are the superstars that could have likely gone anywhere with a USMD degree. I put those programs straight into the pink pile.

3. A caveat to the previous rule, if you know someone at a program or a program has alumni from your school, bump it up a pile. I actually found 2 people I knew pretty well from UG who were in psych residencies and I reached out to them. Ended up getting an interview at one of the programs. If there's alumni from your med school you can also reach out to them and ask if there is anything you can do/if they'll put in a good word for you. I didn't get any extra interviews this way, but did make a couple connections, so not a total waste of time. Plus, if those alumni are good residents a program may look at you more favorably.

3. If you have personal connections to a geographic area, bump those programs up a pile. For example, if you go to med school in Chicago but you're from LA and have family connections, consider the LA/nearby programs to be "geographically close". However, you should also make a separate personal statement for those programs. It doesn't need to be a completely different PS, but it should have 3-5 sentences where you mention your strong connections to that geographic area at some point, as ties to locations can matter more than people realize. I failed to do this and am fairly certain it cost me at least 1 interview (possibly 2-3).


At this point, you should have a decent idea of where your programs are stratified and depending on how you classify "nearby" (I did my state + contiguous states) you may be surprised by how many programs are within reach. I had about 95 programs in by blue and yellow piles at this point, and I believe about 1/3 of them were in my blue (highest chance) pile. Keep in mind this was before the merger, so I could have added 12 more programs to my blue pile if those AOA programs had been in the ACGME match. I was advised to apply to 60ish programs by my school, but I ended up applying to 75 total. I applied to every program in my blue pile, most of my yellow pile, and 2-3 pink programs (would have kicked myself if I didn't at least try). This cost me around $1800 before interviews. I ended up with 9 ACGME interviews (and 1 AOA, which I declined once I hit 6 ACGME), 6 of which were within a 5 hour drive of my med school, 2 in my geographic region (midwest) but far enough to fly, and 1 in the NE. In total I probably spent around $1200 total on my interviews including gas, food, hotels, and flights (several programs paid for my hotel or had significant discounts).

Which programs you apply to will obviously depend on how many programs you apply to. If I were you I'd probably apply to 100 psych programs and possibly FM or IM as back-ups (would probably apply to 20-25 safe programs there, but I'm pretty risk averse). Apply to all your blue programs. If there are less blue and yellow programs than total places you want to apply, then apply to all your yellow programs and your top pink choices. Otherwise pick your top yellow choices and a couple reach pink programs so you don't have any regrets.

I know this was very in-depth, but if you have other questions feel free to PM me.

 

[clausewitz2]

Anyone have suggestions on psychiatry residencies where you don't need a car to get around? I'm not too keen on living in the NYC, Boston, Philly, or the NE in general. Seems like those are the most competitive residencies, and I'm not gonna kill myself in med school to be competitive for locations that don't interest me...

It would also be great if the residency had CAP, forensics, and a psychotherapy or psychoanalytic institute attached to it as that is what I plan to do long term.

Only places that I can think of that fit that could fit the ball are Miami, Chicago, or Portland. Maaaaybe Tulane, but I think I'd need a car to do the forensics rotation. Does anyone know the general competitiveness of these places? And if it's possible to live in these areas as a resident without a car? I have a car for med school, I just haaaate servicing it and constantly worrying if it's gonna break down. And all the fees associated with car ownership.

I'm a US MD Student attending a Top 10 if that helps, more concerned with fit (location, don't need a car, psychotherapy, forensics, and CAP exposure) than I am with prestige when it comes to residency.

Thanks!

OHSU last time I checked does a lengthy rotation at the state hospital which is almost an hour's drive away from the city so you might be a little hosed without a car.

Fixating on the costs of car ownership seems a little weird when all of the places where you could get by easily without one are quite pricy. It is very unlikely you will be saving any money by ditching your car if you are moving to Miami instead of, say, Atlanta.

 

[reca]

Anyone have suggestions on psychiatry residencies where you don't need a car to get around? I'm not too keen on living in the NYC, Boston, Philly, or the NE in general. Seems like those are the most competitive residencies, and I'm not gonna kill myself in med school to be competitive for locations that don't interest me...

It would also be great if the residency had CAP, forensics, and a psychotherapy or psychoanalytic institute attached to it as that is what I plan to do long term.

Only places that I can think of that fit that could fit the ball are Miami, Chicago, or Portland. Maaaaybe Tulane, but I think I'd need a car to do the forensics rotation. Does anyone know the general competitiveness of these places? And if it's possible to live in these areas as a resident without a car? I have a car for med school, I just haaaate servicing it and constantly worrying if it's gonna break down. And all the fees associated with car ownership.

I'm a US MD Student attending a Top 10 if that helps, more concerned with fit (location, don't need a car, psychotherapy, forensics, and CAP exposure) than I am with prestige when it comes to residency.

Thanks!

I did a rotation at U Cincinnati and it seems to fit the bill. CAP, forensics, psychoanalytic institute attached. When I did my rotation, I lived within walking distance from the main hospital, psych hospital, children's hospital, and psychoanalytic institute. I know they have forensics but you may need a car for that.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

OHSU last time I checked does a lengthy rotation at the state hospital which is almost an hour's drive away from the city so you might be a little hosed without a car.

Fixating on the costs of car ownership seems a little weird when all of the places where you could get by easily without one are quite pricy. It is very unlikely you will be saving any money by ditching your car if you are moving to Miami instead of, say, Atlanta.

Thanks for the insight about OHSU. Regarding the cost of a car, it's more about the mental RAM that I have to devote to car ownership...it's the worrying that gets to me...worrying about the monthly insurance payments, cleaning the car so that it looks nice, finding a trustworthy mechanic, making sure the tire pressure is correct, and all that which just seems to be a headache. And then there's the fact that I simply don't like commuting by car.

And I live in Atlanta where the traffic is terrible, so on a psychological level, I'm just over car ownership, gridlocked traffic, and 1.5 hr, 1-way commutes (2+ hours if you need to stop by the grocery store or convenience store to pick up anything), even if I have to pay higher $$ costs for rent + entertainment by living in a dense urban core...

Not saying that you're wrong, just wanted to explain to you where I'm coming from with my preferences...I really do appreciate the info about OHSU though 🙂

@reca Yeah, on a whim, I checked out Cincinnati's page and it does seem to have a pretty compact campus. I actually know someone who is a PGY1, about to be a PGY-2 interestingly enough. I should give him a ring.

Thanks to everyone that has replied so far.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Forensics is a driving fellowship. Court, state hospital, jail, it doesn't matter where you live because your going all over the place.

If you go to a large city and live within a small walking distance world, you will be very isolated. If you go to a small city, you will want a car just to get out of town now and then. Realistically, here is your list.

 

[clausewitz2]

Forensics is a driving fellowship. Court, state hospital, jail, it doesn't matter where you live because your going all over the place.

If you go to a large city and live within a small walking distance world, you will be very isolated. If you go to a small city, you will want a car just to get out of town now and then. Realistically, here is your list.

Hahahaha don't give up your car if you move to Pittsburgh, for reals

 

[Evidence Based]

Anyone have suggestions on psychiatry residencies where you don't need a car to get around? I'm not too keen on living in the NYC, Boston, Philly, or the NE in general. Seems like those are the most competitive residencies, and I'm not gonna kill myself in med school to be competitive for locations that don't interest me...

I'm with you on hating cars, and I specifically picked a residency/city where driving wasn't a necessity. However, if you rule out the Northeast than you really only have Chicago and San Francisco left? Not exactly sure what you have against the Northeast (Philly in particular is a total gem of a city and is criminally underrated), but it's going to be difficult to impossible to try to match in a car-free city if you rule out most of the cities with good public transit systems...

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

I'm with you on hating cars, and I specifically picked a residency/city where driving wasn't a necessity. However, if you rule out the Northeast than you really only have Chicago and San Francisco left? Not exactly sure what you have against the Northeast (Philly in particular is a total gem of a city and is criminally underrated), but it's going to be difficult to impossible to try to match in a car-free city if you rule out most of the cities with good public transit systems...

Yeah, I hear you. I secretly added some NYC, Philly, and Boston residencies to my prospective list. Guess it's time start gunning for 250+ Step 1 and 10+ publications. *sighs* At least I have friends in NYC and the nightlife is dope there, so I can't complain too much.

 

[Evidence Based]

Yeah, I hear you. I secretly added some NYC, Philly, and Boston residencies to my prospective list. Guess it's time start gunning for 250+ Step 1 and 10+ publications. *sighs* At least I have friends in NYC and the nightlife is dope there, so I can't complain too much.

There are plenty of programs in all those cities where you can match as a normal person! I'm at a residency that's people on SDN have a high opinion of in the Northeast, and had fairly average stats (but was a good fit for).

 

[clausewitz2]

Yeah, I hear you. I secretly added some NYC, Philly, and Boston residencies to my prospective list. Guess it's time start gunning for 250+ Step 1 and 10+ publications. *sighs* At least I have friends in NYC and the nightlife is dope there, so I can't complain too much.

DC would also be super easy to live in without a car. I did that for several years in fact.

 

[ridethecliche]

After my cycle I've come out kind of hating the match. My biggest take away is to make sure you have enough interviews and rank enough places so you can match... Especially if you're an average slash low to average applicant.

Fixating on things like car ownership for making a list of programs to apply to is missing the point... Deal with that stuff when you rank programs.