Advice on OMFS - low stats

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Hi, I'm in my last year of dental school and realized I really want to do OMFS.

So, I have a dental office waiting for me when I graduate and I thought I would just graduate and that would be it but I keep getting the nagging feeling that if I don't pursue OMFS, I'll regret it my whole life.

Just to put it out there, my stats are low and I just barely passed NBDE part 1. However, finances aren't an issue and I don't care how many years I have to put into this to achieve this goal.

Any tips on where I can start? I was recommended an internship but I think I'm going to need a little more than that. I was also told about a 2 year anesthesiology residency. Not sure if there are dental students who've traversed this path before.
 
if you can get an internship or, better, dental anesthesiology, this is going to make a huge difference
 
Internship is just as important as doing a 2yr dental anesthesiology degree, its just as competitive to get into. If you barely passed your NBDE the reality is that your probably not going to get into dental anesthesia.
So your best bet is to do a OMFS internship excel in it than reapply

Hope that helps setting your priorities.
 
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he can not retake NBDE any more!
 
A one-year internship in an OMFS program is SIGNIFICANTLY more useful than any GPR, other residency....most people unless they screw up royally during a one year internship will usually match the following year...many times at the same program! The reason they are highly regarded is because you essentially do the SAME EXACT thing as an OMFS resident, including working side by side with them. This shows program directors that you do in fact has the ability to handle the rigors of an OMFS program. If u choose something else, say dental anesthesiology or whatever, it lacks the direct OMFS "link," anesthesiologists don't do the same thing as a surgeon! Go for a good internship and you should be fine. (plus its only a year!)
 
jDDS said:
Hi, I'm in my last year of dental school and realized I really want to do OMFS.

So, I have a dental office waiting for me when I graduate and I thought I would just graduate and that would be it but I keep getting the nagging feeling that if I don't pursue OMFS, I'll regret it my whole life.

Just to put it out there, my stats are low and I just barely passed NBDE part 1. However, finances aren't an issue and I don't care how many years I have to put into this to achieve this goal.

Any tips on where I can start? I was recommended an internship but I think I'm going to need a little more than that. I was also told about a 2 year anesthesiology residency. Not sure if there are dental students who've traversed this path before.
Click to expand...
What's the ball park of scores we're talking about?
 
Thanks. And exactly, I've looked into reading boards and that's a no go.

Yeah. I'm thinking applying to an internship's gonna be a hurdle as well. Anything I can do before that?

Nbde part 1 was a 78.
 
while your score is low, i would suggest just looking into internships as i said...look particularly in places like philadelphia, detroit, the bronx...those less desirable locations would be more than happy to take someone as people do not necessarily want to work there...in my opinion if there is a will there is a way!
(I know a particular omfs 2nd year resident who had to do 2 internships in a row before he matched because he had a 79 part 1 score and a low gpa in the 3.1 region!!!)
 
Life, drinking out of the wrong Kool-aid container .. thought I'd just do GP as I have a place waiting for me and people are depending on me. But the more OS I do, the more I can't shake the feeling that this is what I truly want.

I've always wanted it to some degree but now, that's all I want.

Not sure if it's too late. All I know is, settling for less sucks.

Btw, thanks Stroszeck, that gives me a place to start.
 
Last edited:
Hang it up?
 
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Stroszeck said:
while your score is low, i would suggest just looking into internships as i said...look particularly in places like philadelphia, detroit, the bronx...those less desirable locations would be more than happy to take someone as people do not necessarily want to work there...in my opinion if there is a will there is a way!
(I know a particular omfs 2nd year resident who had to do 2 internships in a row before he matched because he had a 79 part 1 score and a low gpa in the 3.1 region!!!)
Click to expand...

Since he did 2 interships and is a 2nd yr resident, did that resident retake part 1 (before they did away with retaking it) and improve his score before finally matching? How is that particular 2nd yr resident doing now?

It seems a bit rougher now on people who've taken part 1 after Jan 2010. I know many might say "where there's a will, there's a way" but with hundreds of applicants applying everywhere for a limited number of spots, will an internship actually give that person with a high 70, low 80 a chance at a spot over that person applying with a 90?
 
Well to tell you the truth that guy (he's now considered a 2nd year going to 3rd) is a MONSTER in the clinics...i mean he has gotten so much experience from those two internships that he works (and acts) like a graduate already. I never asked him if he retook the exam but during my rotation through oral surgery you could tell that the other residents, including the chiefs etc really regarded him. He took out three impacted palatal odontomas in like 20 minutes a pop! He was pretty cool to watch. The thing is sure someone had a 90 etc on part 1, but part 1 has NOTHING to do really with dentistry. The good internship will prepare you in a way that no exam could. A HUGE part of oral surgery residency is pure stamina and although there is a ton of stuff to learn, it doesn't necessarily have to do with biochem (for instance). A person who does well during an internship with less than stellar scores has shown he can handle the real thing...
 
I talked to someone in the hospital affiliated with my dental school. There is someone who is in the OMFS program and he applied 3 times.. Did two internships. Retook part 1 three times. I was told to do externships and apply for an internship asap. However, I have to come out and work for a year. I mentioned this and was told this would not help me out in any way. Would going into private practice be frowned upon when applying for residency/internships?
 
Stroszeck said:
Well to tell you the truth that guy (he's now considered a 2nd year going to 3rd) is a MONSTER in the clinics...i mean he has gotten so much experience from those two internships that he works (and acts) like a graduate already. I never asked him if he retook the exam but during my rotation through oral surgery you could tell that the other residents, including the chiefs etc really regarded him. He took out three impacted palatal odontomas in like 20 minutes a pop! He was pretty cool to watch. The thing is sure someone had a 90 etc on part 1, but part 1 has NOTHING to do really with dentistry. The good internship will prepare you in a way that no exam could. A HUGE part of oral surgery residency is pure stamina and although there is a ton of stuff to learn, it doesn't necessarily have to do with biochem (for instance). A person who does well during an internship with less than stellar scores has shown he can handle the real thing...
Click to expand...


Any idea where he did his internships?
 
Stroszeck said:
Well to tell you the truth that guy (he's now considered a 2nd year going to 3rd) is a MONSTER in the clinics...i mean he has gotten so much experience from those two internships that he works (and acts) like a graduate already. I never asked him if he retook the exam but during my rotation through oral surgery you could tell that the other residents, including the chiefs etc really regarded him. He took out three impacted palatal odontomas in like 20 minutes a pop! He was pretty cool to watch. The thing is sure someone had a 90 etc on part 1, but part 1 has NOTHING to do really with dentistry. The good internship will prepare you in a way that no exam could. A HUGE part of oral surgery residency is pure stamina and although there is a ton of stuff to learn, it doesn't necessarily have to do with biochem (for instance). A person who does well during an internship with less than stellar scores has shown he can handle the real thing...
Click to expand...

Great story! I've always been one to cheer on the underdog. It's inspirational to hear of someone who was in a similar situation as me but is now excelling in the program. It would break my heart to hear of guys with low stats getting a chance at OMFS and then not trying their best considering this is the last leg of the race.

The idea of a year or two spent doing an internship doesn't scare me off the slightest bit. My BIGGEST CONCERN was that I just don't want to be a sucker doing 4 or 5 internships because every program is rejecting me simply for a score I got on one test in the middle of dental school.
 
Hi,
I agree - improve your CV - I mentioned some ideas to your post in the dental section
externships, rotations, research to improve recommendations
Anesthesia, internship
even a GPR will get you some addition experience
 
rarm1 said:
Hi,
I agree - improve your CV - I mentioned some ideas to your post in the dental section
externships, rotations, research to improve recommendations
Anesthesia, internship
even a GPR will get you some addition experience
Click to expand...

Dr. Ram,
Have you heard anything about, how are Residency Programs going to evaluate Dental students after the Part1 goes to Pass/Fail. I think it goes to Pass/Fail in 2012 and it should affect the 2014 application cycle. I'ev been hearing people say, they may(AAOMS) place another exam to rank students applying for Residency (NBME Shelf Exams?? not sure).

If that is true, many students with bad Part1 scores would have the opportunity to take the new exam and this may possibly open another opportunity for them to apply to Residency with a better scores.
Allthough, I have to say it would suck for Dental student, who would have to take yet another exam if they want to specialize.

Your thoughts???
 
rarm1 said:
Hi,
I agree - improve your CV - I mentioned some ideas to your post in the dental section
externships, rotations, research to improve recommendations
Anesthesia, internship
even a GPR will get you some addition experience
Click to expand...

Dr. Rarm,

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I'm pasting your post from the dental board here in case someone were to stumble onto this later on.


Hi,
Many have... they try to improve their CV... Anesthesiology either a 1 year or 2 year program is good. An OMFS internship of 1 year is also a good option. Another option would be a GPR/AEGD. An AEGD will not give you the hospital experience, but a good GPR with OR cases, a lot of oral surgery and medically compromised will help. Most of my GPR's who wanted OMFS have gotten in, some needed an internship after the GPR.

Don't give up.
 
gabaru2001 said:
Dr. Ram,
Have you heard anything about, how are Residency Programs going to evaluate Dental students after the Part1 goes to Pass/Fail. I think it goes to Pass/Fail in 2012 and it should affect the 2014 application cycle. I'ev been hearing people say, they may(AAOMS) place another exam to rank students applying for Residency (NBME Shelf Exams?? not sure).

If that is true, many students with bad Part1 scores would have the opportunity to take the new exam and this may possibly open another opportunity for them to apply to Residency with a better scores.
Allthough, I have to say it would suck for Dental student, who would have to take yet another exam if they want to specialize.

Your thoughts???
Click to expand...

I have heard about this as well. I was told by a classmate that this could potentially be a redeeming factor if this were to come to be. Only speculation at this point, from me, anyways.
 
gabaru2001 said:
Dr. Ram,
Have you heard anything about, how are Residency Programs going to evaluate Dental students after the Part1 goes to Pass/Fail. I think it goes to Pass/Fail in 2012 and it should affect the 2014 application cycle. I'ev been hearing people say, they may(AAOMS) place another exam to rank students applying for Residency (NBME Shelf Exams?? not sure).

If that is true, many students with bad Part1 scores would have the opportunity to take the new exam and this may possibly open another opportunity for them to apply to Residency with a better scores.
Allthough, I have to say it would suck for Dental student, who would have to take yet another exam if they want to specialize.

Your thoughts???
Click to expand...

I would like to know the answer for this as well
 
i heard that there is a discussion about a new test to evaluate applicant to postgraduate programs,
so NBDE will be exclusively for licensor and the claimed "new" test would be for evaluation of applicants! but nothing is confirmed only rumors!
 
jDDS said:
Hi, I'm in my last year of dental school and realized I really want to do OMFS.

So, I have a dental office waiting for me when I graduate and I thought I would just graduate and that would be it but I keep getting the nagging feeling that if I don't pursue OMFS, I'll regret it my whole life.

Just to put it out there, my stats are low and I just barely passed NBDE part 1. However, finances aren't an issue and I don't care how many years I have to put into this to achieve this goal.

Any tips on where I can start? I was recommended an internship but I think I'm going to need a little more than that. I was also told about a 2 year anesthesiology residency. Not sure if there are dental students who've traversed this path before.
Click to expand...

I'm a medical student now, but I graduated from dental school a while back. I also spent a year in an OMFS internship. I matched, but I pulled out (....yeah, I'm one of those dirtbags). My case is a bit different from yours, though, because I actually had very strong numbers (graduated in the top 10% of my dental school class and scored over a 90 on my NBDE Part 1, but I spent a year doing this internship specifically because I didn't know if I wanted to go into OMFS or go to medical school.)


I was one of two interns. The other guy had very mediocre stats. Finished around the middle of his class and scored an 85 on his Part 1, if I remember correctly. He was actually a great intern. Smart guy. Clinically capable. Got along with everyone. He was undoubtedly a better intern than I was, to be honest.


I matched, but he didn't match. In fact, he got only two interviews, one of which was at the program where we worked.


The bottom line is that OMFS is 99% a numbers game. If you don't got the numbers, you don't got a snowball's chance in hell of getting a residency position. Internships do help, but the problem is that they only help you so much. An internship will push a fairly decent candidate over the hump, but it won't make a weak candidate a strong one.


If your numbers are as weak as you say they are, an internship probably isn't going to help you much. Not only that, because internships are not accredited programs, the attendings who run them are technically not under any obligation to ensure that you receive a certain amount of training in anything. Hence, from what I've heard, there is a great deal of variability in how interns are treated and the kinds of experiences interns have. Mine turned out to be a good one and I learned a lot, but I've heard of some really bad experiences before. So beware. You may end up in an internship that is hellacious for you and you likely won't get a residency out of it either. Moreover, it's possible you won't get much surgical experience either. It really depends on the residency program and the internship. So, before you take any internship position, you should really try to nail down with the attendings who interview you what your role will be, and whether or not you'll be taking out third molars or performing other types of surgeries.


Now, the dental anesthesiology residency might be a different animal. It might actually make you competitive. One, because it's a two- to three-year long program and you will learn a tremendous amount of medicine (compared to what you learned in dental school) during the program. And two, because OMFS's have a hard-on for anesthesia.


The only problem with these anesthesia programs is that there aren't many of them, and as a result they might actually be competitive to get into. I really don't know.


Anyway, good luck to you.
 
I really don't get why everyone is advocating or talking about anesthesiology as a potential "in" for OMFS. Is it because its a multiple year residency? First of all they are very different animals. I've never heard a single omfs person advocate that route. Again if you are going to spend 2-3 years on something, then either do a couple internships or do a 2 year GPR. I personally know that several very good VA's have 2 year GPRs which are a huge feeder into OMFS. Also 2 year GPRS are much less competitive for the obvious reasons but in a good GPR without an OMFS track program, you will definitely get great experience AND a huge resume builder. My personal 0.02 cents.
 
Stroszeck said:
I really don't get why everyone is advocating or talking about anesthesiology as a potential "in" for OMFS. Is it because its a multiple year residency? First of all they are very different animals. I've never heard a single omfs person advocate that route. Again if you are going to spend 2-3 years on something, then either do a couple internships or do a 2 year GPR. I personally know that several very good VA's have 2 year GPRs which are a huge feeder into OMFS. Also 2 year GPRS are much less competitive for the obvious reasons but in a good GPR without an OMFS track program, you will definitely get great experience AND a huge resume builder. My personal 0.02 cents.
Click to expand...

The OS department assistant has mentioned that the OS department director likes to see anesthesiology - something about it making them more marketable. Also, it's right on track with what you learn in a residency.

This isn't the first time I've heard conflicting opinions on GPR and anesthesiology programs. Some say do a GPR but others say GPR won't get you that much experience in surgery. But then, wouldn't that be especially true in a anesthesiology program?

But if one did an anesthesiology program with externships during breaks? But I don't know the protocol on externships after dental school ends.
 
There are many different ways to get an OS spot. If you dont match, I would say an Intership at a program that is going to get you good experience and credibility is probably the your best bet. That being said, not all internships are created equal. Some are direct feeders into the respective program, so obviously those are sought after. Some are at "big name" programs and have a strong history of matching their interns, so keep all that in mind.

I believe Dental Anesthesiology could be a great step in the right direction to an OMFS residency spot, and career wise, could really set you apart. Also, if you dont match into OMFS, you still have a unique career, and could really do what most Oral Surgeons do, sedate/GA patients and take out teeth. Hell, there are people doing that (asside from the GA) without any post grad training.

There are many roads to get into OMFS, but poor grades and board scores definately make it difficult. It is good to hear about the guy mentioned above, but those stories are few. I personally like seeing applicants with experience regardless of scores. But, my PD and Chairman see it differently.
 
While I'm not the OP, I love all of the feedback! Thanks guys, this definitely leaves me with some food for thought.
 
I asked about externships post-grad and unfortunately, it's a no-go.

Something about not being covered under the school's malpractice insurance.
 
jDDS said:
I asked about externships post-grad and unfortunately, it's a no-go.

Something about not being covered under the school's malpractice insurance.
Click to expand...

You can do externships after graduating at many programs, you'll just have to buy your own malpractice insurance (It's generally not very expensive)
 
jDDS said:
I asked about externships post-grad and unfortunately, it's a no-go.

Something about not being covered under the school's malpractice insurance.
Click to expand...

The last program I externed at, there was an OMFS intern who was also going on externships in any spare time. The PD was pretty understanding considering they both knew his ultimate goal and what needs to be done.
 
My NBDE1 is 87, I was wondering if there is any OMFS program that accepts applicant with high 80s score?honestly I want to do externship and I want to apply to the programs that I have more chance of acceptance in the future.😕😕😕
 
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