Advice on Starting Private Practice

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

FreshStart23

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Been a lurker on this forum for the last year with a couple years experience as a podiatrist now. I am currently working in PP under another podiatrist owner. Although things have gone well with reasonable pay ($160-$180k), I have had the itch to start my own practice mainly due to disagreements with many of the owner's practices. I also recognize that ownership is key for earning more and/or gaining flexibility.

Staying nearby for family reasons, the new practice would be in a somewhat saturated area but I have identified a couple of offices for lease in less competitive areas. I am looking for feedback from those who have started their own practice. I have found some answers in past threads especially in the recent "Buying a practice" and "Salary poll" threads but still have plenty of questions.
  1. How long does it take to become credentialed at major private insurances if I am already credentialed under current practice? How can I shorten the amount of time between starting the practice (paying rent) and getting credentialed? Any way to get started while still at current practice?
  2. What office location is best to drive traffic? I will be in a suburban town but will be deciding between residential or a non-residential area near the highway.
  3. Any advice on hiring in-house biller vs. outsourcing billing services? I will likely use Athenahealth for EHR/billing.
  4. A constant theme on this forum is the low per patient visit revenue ($100-125) for podiatrists. At my current practice, I am consistently collecting well over $200 per visit (lots of orthotics). Is this not normal and unlikely to be extrapolated into a new practice?
  5. What were the important factors that drove success or mistakes that you had when starting a solo PP?
Greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks!

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Since no one replied I'll throw a few thoughts as someone also investigating departing.

-Athena. I use it. I know it, but its clunky. They get paid out of your collections. Theoretically the higher your collections the better you can negotiate their rate. My office gives almost 8% to them.
-If its possible, ideally should explore separating some of your cash pay game onto another system ie. something that takes 2%. You'll have to determine whether this is ethical or right. That's for things like DME/orthotics.
-I feel like I've heard places say before that most outside billers will not work with you if you use Athena. I'm not sure you'd have money to pay an outsider if you are already paying Athena.
-We don't use a "biller" per se. I enter my own coding for visits - during the encounter I consider what's relevant, what's right etc and then write the note to the encounter level. Athena does seem to do some fighting for denials and what not, but you must at least have an in-office person to clear things up, do remittance, etc. There is something to be said for having a true billing experienced person. Our current employee is a quick study but they sometimes still have questions like - why can't 11042 be billed left and right. I've literally looked at the billing back and forth and seen Athena calling Blue Cross on our behalf.

I'm personally torn on the right place to start. My town is expanding in one direction - the expanding area is relatively booming, but priced accordingly. There are places that are expanding so hard they won't even list their price on their website. Were I to move in this direction I'd have to rent, battle over build-out and control square footage because ever foot of property is hard earned dollars for those first years. There's a lot to be said for this area - this is where the money is. I see a lot of things that are 3000-4000 sq ft and think I can't multiply that by a big number sq foot number. I need a well designed 1000 foot space. That said - if a dog baker can survive in these places ...shouldn't a much higher revenue office be able to. I'm probably being overly pessimistic. There are things on the periphery of this that are cheaper though I haven't found one that I think could be efficiently built out ie. turning former retail into an office. My wild hare - smack in the middle of ...poor side of town (previously the booming - still a lot of commerce) is an already built podiatry office that I think can be bought for substantially below $200K. Hasn't been occupied in a few years, but was recently renovated to try and sell it. Has some local interesting dynamics but if you paid on it like you'll pay to rent in the new area you'll own it in 3 years and its got enough treatment rooms to have 2-3 doctors in it.

Think about overhead. Think about where you want to be. Think about your future. Now someone real come along and say something helpful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Since no one replied I'll throw a few thoughts as someone also investigating departing.

-Athena. I use it. I know it, but its clunky. They get paid out of your collections. Theoretically the higher your collections the better you can negotiate their rate. My office gives almost 8% to them.
-If its possible, ideally should explore separating some of your cash pay game onto another system ie. something that takes 2%. You'll have to determine whether this is ethical or right. That's for things like DME/orthotics.
-I feel like I've heard places say before that most outside billers will not work with you if you use Athena. I'm not sure you'd have money to pay an outsider if you are already paying Athena.
-We don't use a "biller" per se. I enter my own coding for visits - during the encounter I consider what's relevant, what's right etc and then write the note to the encounter level. Athena does seem to do some fighting for denials and what not, but you must at least have an in-office person to clear things up, do remittance, etc. There is something to be said for having a true billing experienced person. Our current employee is a quick study but they sometimes still have questions like - why can't 11042 be billed left and right. I've literally looked at the billing back and forth and seen Athena calling Blue Cross on our behalf.

I'm personally torn on the right place to start. My town is expanding in one direction - the expanding area is relatively booming, but priced accordingly. There are places that are expanding so hard they won't even list their price on their website. Were I to move in this direction I'd have to rent, battle over build-out and control square footage because ever foot of property is hard earned dollars for those first years. There's a lot to be said for this area - this is where the money is. I see a lot of things that are 3000-4000 sq ft and think I can't multiply that by a big number sq foot number. I need a well designed 1000 foot space. That said - if a dog baker can survive in these places ...shouldn't a much higher revenue office be able to. I'm probably being overly pessimistic. There are things on the periphery of this that are cheaper though I haven't found one that I think could be efficiently built out ie. turning former retail into an office. My wild hare - smack in the middle of ...poor side of town (previously the booming - still a lot of commerce) is an already built podiatry office that I think can be bought for substantially below $200K. Hasn't been occupied in a few years, but was recently renovated to try and sell it. Has some local interesting dynamics but if you paid on it like you'll pay to rent in the new area you'll own it in 3 years and its got enough treatment rooms to have 2-3 doctors in it.

Think about overhead. Think about where you want to be. Think about your future. Now someone real come along and say something helpful.

Thank you. Great info
 
Just to add

  1. How long does it take to become credentialed at major private insurances if I am already credentialed under current practice? How can I shorten the amount of time between starting the practice (paying rent) and getting credentialed? Any way to get started while still at current practice? ..... Credentialing takes about 3-6 months. Medicare is the first to get credentialed which usually takes about 30-45 days. And with Medicare, they said that Medicare can back pay, meaning you can see patients up to 3 months before and hold the claim, then you can file the claim after you get credentialed with Medicare up to 3 months prior. You CANNOT do this with private insurance. I heard it is best to go with a credentialing specialists to handle all your credentialing. Don't try to do it yourself and screw it up. It will cost more to fix. So you have to call several credentialing specialists to get a price quote.

2. What office location is best to drive traffic? I will be in a suburban town but will be deciding between residential or a non-residential area near the highway. ........ For my 2 cents, general rule is to keep your overhead as low as possibly. One of the biggest overhead is rent. So you have to weigh the pros and cons between a residential or a non-residential area near the highway. Ask yourself Where are the other independent medical specialties located? you want to be close to your source of referrals. It may be beneficial to pay a little more to be close to your source of referral. Go with a realtor that knows the local area, and familiar with medical practices, for advice. Also don't go too big or too small. A 2000sqft, give or take, space with 4 exam rooms is enough for starting out.

3. Any advice on hiring in-house biller vs. outsourcing billing services? I will likely use Athenahealth for EHR/billing. ..... I have no answer to this

4. A constant theme on this forum is the low per patient visit revenue ($100-125) for podiatrists. At my current practice, I am consistently collecting well over $200 per visit (lots of orthotics). Is this not normal and unlikely to be extrapolated into a new practice? ......... Starting a new practice, just like any new business, is weighing the risk vs reward and I don't think anyone can answer this question for you. Overall, you should not be far off from your current per patient visit revenue once you keep your billing habits ( and patient demographic with insurance plan) about the same. I think, most importantly, it depends on your patient demographic (insurance plans vs cash pay) at your new practice location. Your per patient visit revenue may go up or down, but being your own boss, you can keep track of this number and adjust accordingly.

5. What were the important factors that drove success or mistakes that you had when starting a solo PP? .... I also do not have an answer to this for now. I hope someone can help answer this question.


All the best in your future plans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I won’t answer everything but will share some thoughts from my point of view and experience.

New doctors are excited and ready to enter the real world. They tend to look at things in the near term. Land a job. Get the highest gauranteed paycheck. Get nice benefits. Buy a house and a nice car. Maybe get married or start a family. Its an exciting times as it should be.
But after a few years, the check doesn’t seem big enough. Reality sets in that what seemed like a lot of money when u had none, isnt that much once you have it. All the little things start to eat at you. Having someone else have control over you, telling you what to do, when you think you know better than your superior what is best for your patients. The driving, the hours, the call schedule, all of which was no problem starts to become inconveniences. This is the time when many venture off on their own, or go somewhere else, or renegotiate the contract. The grass always seems greener elsewhere and much greener if you control your own destiny.
Then towards the tail end of your career you become worn out by all the detractions required in running your own business. The stress of meeting payroll. Policy manuals. OSHA. Audits. Accounts receivables. Chasing past due balances. Everything costs money. Everything eats at your time. And you feel the burden of working harder for less. And you realize this business you spent so much time building really isn’t worth much if you were to sell. This is the time doctors sell out to hospitals, merge with groups, look for second careers, or simply burnout. Doctors just want to get back to the basics and take care of patients, doing what they loved to do in the first place.

So it seems to be a cycle. Nobody’s fault. Its just the natural progression of what your needs are at the time, and those needs change as you change. Of course there are a billion possible exceptions. And certainly I don’t want to paint a picture of gloom and doom.

Getting in insurance plans take a long time. My advice is hire someone that has done it. And make sure they stay after it with phone calls persistently. Because emails and faxes and voice mails seem to get lost rather conveniently. How long will it take? Months at the least.

location matters to some degree for patients. But i dont think being on the main drag is important. It’s helpful to be next to, across from, behind, a block away from, something. Be close to something where everybody knows where that is. Patients will gladly drive a couple blocks off the main line to see you. But what does matter is convenience. Make sure there is plenty of parking. Makes sure they don’t have to walk far. And make absolutely sure they don’t have to take stairs or elevators. Because if you don’t honor those things, you will hear about it all day long. The competitor that has no steps, no elevator, parking ten feet from their door will make your practice harder to attract patients.

healthcare always changes. The future is value (quality) based care. This will force the hands of primary care doctors who they refer to. How exactly I don’t really know yet. But to be prepared, I would seriously consider being in the same building, same surgery center, same group, or something that makes the relationships a little more secure.

with staffing, including billing, my advice is as much as cost permitted, dont put any one position on one person. Always try to cross train staff. because employees will get sick, maternity leave, vacation, and some will leave. If you have one biller and that person is gone, it stops the whole billing process. Finding well educated and experienced podiatry billers is hard. For that reason I would recommend hiring a billing service to protect yourself. But if you have someone, just be sure u Pay them well and make them feel appreciated. And that’s true for all your staff. The downside is, billing companies aren’t right there in your office, many don’t take patient billing calls. And many wont actually review your notes nor do your codes. So you may still want a coder who can also take billing calls and complaints.

$100-$125 per patient I think is high. Mine is about $90. Payer mix, population demographics, how u practice all affects this.

probably the biggest piece of advice I have that I wish someone told me 25 years ago when I started is....practice today like you want to be practicing 25 years from now. If you want to work four days a week, start out that way. If you don’t want to spend the day cutting toenails 25 years from now then don’t be doing it today. If you want to take vacations and travel, then do it now. If you don’t want to be open nights and saturdays, don’t do it now. Its easier to add something in later rather than take something away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13 users
I won’t answer everything but will share some thoughts from my point of view and experience.

New doctors are excited and ready to enter the real world. They tend to look at things in the near term. Land a job. Get the highest gauranteed paycheck. Get nice benefits. Buy a house and a nice car. Maybe get married or start a family. Its an exciting times as it should be.
But after a few years, the check doesn’t seem big enough. Reality sets in that what seemed like a lot of money when u had none, isnt that much once you have it. All the little things start to eat at you. Having someone else have control over you, telling you what to do, when you think you know better than your superior what is best for your patients. The driving, the hours, the call schedule, all of which was no problem starts to become inconveniences. This is the time when many venture off on their own, or go somewhere else, or renegotiate the contract. The grass always seems greener elsewhere and much greener if you control your own destiny.
Then towards the tail end of your career you become worn out by all the detractions required in running your own business. The stress of meeting payroll. Policy manuals. OSHA. Audits. Accounts receivables. Chasing past due balances. Everything costs money. Everything eats at your time. And you feel the burden of working harder for less. And you realize this business you spent so much time building really isn’t worth much if you were to sell. This is the time doctors sell out to hospitals, merge with groups, look for second careers, or simply burnout. Doctors just want to get back to the basics and take care of patients, doing what they loved to do in the first place.

So it seems to be a cycle. Nobody’s fault. Its just the natural progression of what your needs are at the time, and those needs change as you change. Of course there are a billion possible exceptions. And certainly I don’t want to paint a picture of gloom and doom.

Getting in insurance plans take a long time. My advice is hire someone that has done it. And make sure they stay after it with phone calls persistently. Because emails and faxes and voice mails seem to get lost rather conveniently. How long will it take? Months at the least.

location matters to some degree for patients. But i dont think being on the main drag is important. It’s helpful to be next to, across from, behind, a block away from, something. Be close to something where everybody knows where that is. Patients will gladly drive a couple blocks off the main line to see you. But what does matter is convenience. Make sure there is plenty of parking. Makes sure they don’t have to walk far. And make absolutely sure they don’t have to take stairs or elevators. Because if you don’t honor those things, you will hear about it all day long. The competitor that has no steps, no elevator, parking ten feet from their door will make your practice harder to attract patients.

healthcare always changes. The future is value (quality) based care. This will force the hands of primary care doctors who they refer to. How exactly I don’t really know yet. But to be prepared, I would seriously consider being in the same building, same surgery center, same group, or something that makes the relationships a little more secure.

with staffing, including billing, my advice is as much as cost permitted, dont put any one position on one person. Always try to cross train staff. because employees will get sick, maternity leave, vacation, and some will leave. If you have one biller and that person is gone, it stops the whole billing process. Finding well educated and experienced podiatry billers is hard. For that reason I would recommend hiring a billing service to protect yourself. But if you have someone, just be sure u Pay them well and make them feel appreciated. And that’s true for all your staff. The downside is, billing companies aren’t right there in your office, many don’t take patient billing calls. And many wont actually review your notes nor do your codes. So you may still want a coder who can also take billing calls and complaints.

$100-$125 per patient I think is high. Mine is about $90. Payer mix, population demographics, how u practice all affects this.

probably the biggest piece of advice I have that I wish someone told me 25 years ago when I started is....practice today like you want to be practicing 25 years from now. If you want to work four days a week, start out that way. If you don’t want to spend the day cutting toenails 25 years from now then don’t be doing it today. If you want to take vacations and travel, then do it now. If you don’t want to be open nights and saturdays, don’t do it now. Its easier to add something in later rather than take something away.


This is GOLD!!! Thank you for the reply. It will help a lot of people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
New doctors are excited and ready to enter the real world. They tend to look at things in the near term. Land a job. Get the highest gauranteed paycheck. Get nice benefits. Buy a house and a nice car. Maybe get married or start a family. Its an exciting times as it should be.
But after a few years, the check doesn’t seem big enough. Reality sets in that what seemed like a lot of money when u had none, isnt that much once you have it. All the little things start to eat at you. Having someone else have control over you, telling you what to do, when you think you know better than your superior what is best for your patients. The driving, the hours, the call schedule, all of which was no problem starts to become inconveniences. This is the time when many venture off on their own, or go somewhere else, or renegotiate the contract. The grass always seems greener elsewhere and much greener if you control your own destiny.

Great post

Totally agree about this part. I have worked for an MSG and now a hospital. I will elaborate at some point in the near future, but I am in the process of leaving my hospital job for a small ortho group where I will be a partner in a year. Working for a big corporation where everything takes a million years to get approved, you have all sorts of stupid corportate rules, the lack of control, the inability to renegotiate, the knowledge that you are making people a lot more money than you are earning, the inability to work harder and make more money, the lack of security....it wears on you. I will get to be by my own boss, take on more responsibility, have more pride in ownership. Screw working for other people.
 
Great post

Totally agree about this part. I have worked for an MSG and now a hospital. I will elaborate at some point in the near future, but I am in the process of leaving my hospital job for a small ortho group where I will be a partner in a year. Working for a big corporation where everything takes a million years to get approved, you have all sorts of stupid corportate rules, the lack of control, the inability to renegotiate, the knowledge that you are making people a lot more money than you are earning, the inability to work harder and make more money, the lack of security....it wears on you. I will get to be by my own boss, take on more responsibility, have more pride in ownership. Screw working for other people.

Couple of questions if you don’t mind, are you fellowship trained? and what’s the population size of where the ortho practice is located?
 
Couple of questions if you don’t mind, are you fellowship trained? and what’s the population size of where the ortho practice is located?
no fellowship, i will pull from about 60k over a 2 hour radius in all directions. only pod around.
 
This is how new I am to these boards. I thought I would receive notifications to responses on the thread so thought no one was responding.

All of this was extremely helpful. Greatly appreciate the long responses from @heybrother @NewPodGrad2019 and @ipad. My timeline is still for early next year after my contract is up. Have a lot to think about. There is definitely grass is greener feeling right now.

Would love to hear more input from others.
 
Top