PhD/PsyD Advice/opinions needed

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Beachgirl88

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I really need some advice and hope this forum can help. I have a PsyD. and I have taken the EPPP 4x and plan to take it again in Dec but part of me wants to say the heck with it....get a certificate/license as a Life Coach and just start my own private practice and only accept private pay. Could I do this? Would it be legal? Ethical? I am in Missouri. Any thoughts, opinions, knowledge of laws/guidelines, etc are greatly appreciated.
 
I'd agree and would say you should closely check your state's psych licensing laws; some (perhaps many) will prohibit individuals with practice-oriented psychology doctoral degrees from going the route you've suggested for the reason psycscientist mentioned (i.e., attempting to circumvent the licensing process).

If you earned a masters along the way, a masters-level licensure may be an option (particularly as you continue to study for the EPPP). However, again, I'd check the licensing laws closely, and likely would also consider contacting the state board directly.
 
It's a pretty stupid business plan. There's not a huge pool of private pay patients. Even less once word gets out that you are unlicensed. And being unlicensed because you can't pass the test is almost rea ipsa for malpractice. Probably opens up your personal assets too
 
I'd agree and would say you should closely check your state's psych licensing laws; some (perhaps many) will prohibit individuals with practice-oriented psychology doctoral degrees from going the route you've suggested for the reason psycscientist mentioned (i.e., attempting to circumvent the licensing process).

If you earned a masters along the way, a masters-level licensure may be an option (particularly as you continue to study for the EPPP). However, again, I'd check the licensing laws closely, and likely would also consider contacting the state board directly.
While I'm not in disagreement that this is not a 'up to snuff' way to become a practitioner, I don't' quite follow the logic. If I don't have a license by licensing board X, what does their licensing requirements have to do with my behavior? Not disagreeing with the intent, I just haven't heard of this coming out before where licensing boards are dictating the behaviors of non-licensed individuals. It seems outside the scope of their purview since 'ethical' and 'unethical', besides being individual values, are those decided on by a given professional body.

Is there an example state I could read up on this for? Curiousity has me on how that would work.
 
I'm curious as to why you have not passed. Also, have you considered seeking accommodations for something that could prevent you from passing (like diagnosable anxiety or, as in another post, something like ADHD)?

I'm sure you've thought of this, but what about an EPPP tutor? Along the way, I've come across people who do this in NYC. I've never looked into it because I have not taken the EPPP yet but if this were my situation, I would sink more time into passing the 5th time.

Anyhow, could be 5x is the charm for you, you know? Everyone travels down his/her own road. Good luck!
 
While I'm not in disagreement that this is not a 'up to snuff' way to become a practitioner, I don't' quite follow the logic. If I don't have a license by licensing board X, what does their licensing requirements have to do with my behavior? Not disagreeing with the intent, I just haven't heard of this coming out before where licensing boards are dictating the behaviors of non-licensed individuals. It seems outside the scope of their purview since 'ethical' and 'unethical', besides being individual values, are those decided on by a given professional body.

Is there an example state I could read up on this for? Curiousity has me on how that would work.

It's basically a way for the state board to prevent people who are trained as psychologists to attempt to circumvent the licensing process by practicing under a title other than "psychologist" while still essentially performing the same functions. Sort of like if an MD or DO wasn't licensed and instead setup shop in an unregulated area (e.g., "holistic health promoter"), but was still basically practicing medicine.

I'll see if I can find an example, as I don't know of any such states off the top of my head.
 
So if I throw away my drivers license, the cops can't give me another ticket? Cause I have a lot of those.
 
It's basically a way for the state board to prevent people who are trained as psychologists to attempt to circumvent the licensing process by practicing under a title other than "psychologist" while still essentially performing the same functions. Sort of like if an MD or DO wasn't licensed and instead setup shop in an unregulated area (e.g., "holistic health promoter"), but was still basically practicing medicine.

I'll see if I can find an example, as I don't know of any such states off the top of my head.
Sure, I appreciate what it's attempting to do but it seems flawed in a number of ways.
1. It doesn't ensure that those who are obtaining a 'life coach' certificate are doing so because they are unable to become a practitioner otherwise.
2. It still leaves them regulating something outside their regulatory powers. What, for instance, can they do to stop me from doing something that doesn't need a license.

I guess I just don't see the teeth. Life coaching isn't something that is regulated (the stupidity of this is a separate issue) so how can you regulate it with any effectiveness? A curious little situation and conundrum that makes me curious. Thanks for anything you find.
 
Sure, I appreciate what it's attempting to do but it seems flawed in a number of ways.
1. It doesn't ensure that those who are obtaining a 'life coach' certificate are doing so because they are unable to become a practitioner otherwise.
2. It still leaves them regulating something outside their regulatory powers. What, for instance, can they do to stop me from doing something that doesn't need a license.

I guess I just don't see the teeth. Life coaching isn't something that is regulated (the stupidity of this is a separate issue) so how can you regulate it with any effectiveness? A curious little situation and conundrum that makes me curious. Thanks for anything you find.

They aren't regulating life coaching so much as they're regulating the practice of psychology, which is certainly under their purview.
 
They aren't regulating life coaching so much as they're regulating the practice of psychology, which is certainly under their purview.
From how you phrased it, it sounded like they prohibited people with applied degrees from getting life coaching certificates.

I'll have to read up on a state that does this to get a clear picture.
 
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From how you phrased it, it sounded like they prohibited people with applied degrees from getting life coaching certificates.

I'll have to read up on a state that does this to get a clear picture.

Nope, however, if it came to light that a lifecoach was using CBT/PE/TLPD etc to "coach" someone through severe PTSD or something similar, then I could see a regulatory laying down the ban hammer. Even more scary though, the coachee is then very easily able to sue, and most likely win, due to that person doing unlicensed therapy which could conceivably cause harm. So, my advice would be more on the side of, don't do it because you will get sued. Lawsuits happen all of the time, much of the time we as practitioners have protection, in this "doing therapy as a life coach" way, you are simply left hanging by yourself.
 
I really need some advice and hope this forum can help. I have a PsyD. and I have taken the EPPP 4x and plan to take it again in Dec but part of me wants to say the heck with it....get a certificate/license as a Life Coach and just start my own private practice and only accept private pay. Could I do this? Would it be legal? Ethical? I am in Missouri. Any thoughts, opinions, knowledge of laws/guidelines, etc are greatly appreciated.

Laws aside, the ethical and professional thing to do is to remediate whatever is preventing you from passing the EPPP. Clearly, what you've been doing so far has not been working, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be successful with a different strategy. Seek consultation from peers and mentors, find a tutor, take an intensive course... whatever it takes.
 
Nope, however, if it came to light that a lifecoach was using CBT/PE/TLPD etc to "coach" someone through severe PTSD or something similar, then I could see a regulatory laying down the ban hammer. Even more scary though, the coachee is then very easily able to sue, and most likely win, due to that person doing unlicensed therapy which could conceivably cause harm. So, my advice would be more on the side of, don't do it because you will get sued. Lawsuits happen all of the time, much of the time we as practitioners have protection, in this "doing therapy as a life coach" way, you are simply left hanging by yourself.
Oh agreed entirely. This is a really interesting intersection of practice and law in my mind. It's amazing (and frustrating) that more has not been done to curb this dangerous practice. Without legislative action at the state or national level, I see it as a really hard to regulate problem at the board level though.
 
I really need some advice and hope this forum can help. I have a PsyD. and I have taken the EPPP 4x and plan to take it again in Dec but part of me wants to say the heck with it....get a certificate/license as a Life Coach and just start my own private practice and only accept private pay. Could I do this? Would it be legal? Ethical? I am in Missouri. Any thoughts, opinions, knowledge of laws/guidelines, etc are greatly appreciated.

You can do anything you want. The better question, how much risk are you willing to take on-both financial and legal? Dancing on the line of life coaching but not "practicing psychology" is flimsy and vague, especially since you have trained as a psychologist but cant seem to finish.

I don't know where you think all your clients are going to come from?
 
The OP is trolling... right?? :eyebrow:
 
If I don't have a license by licensing board X, what does their licensing requirements have to do with my behavior? Not disagreeing with the intent, I just haven't heard of this coming out before where licensing boards are dictating the behaviors of non-licensed individuals. It seems outside the scope of their purview since 'ethical' and 'unethical', besides being individual values, are those decided on by a given professional body.

Psychology Licensure Boards generally have jurisdiction over most aspects of the practice of psychology within the jurisdiction, rather than just the licensure of psychologists. This involves hearing complaints and assigning penalties to those who may be practicing psychology without a license. The legality of your plan is based on the jurisdiction(s) in which you practice. If you go the non-licensed life-coach route, there will likely be limitation not only on what you can do as a life-coach. Obviously, anything defined in the regulations as "the practice of psychology" will be off-limits, as will any other practices overseen by a licensure board (such as social work, marriage and family therapy, medicine, plumbing, etc.). Additionally, there will likely be limits not only on how you refer to yourself and your practice (i.e. you probably can't use the terms "psychologist" or "psychology" in any of your public representations of yourself or your work), as well as potential limits on how you reference your training and degree, such as referencing degrees or designations (e.g. "doctor") associated with your psychological training. If you decide to go this route, I'd suggest that you carefully review not only the licensure laws in your jurisdiction, but also any and all board memos, findings, sanctions, and other publications related to the practice of psychology, with special attention to any publications related to the "practice of psychology without a license." Opinions don't matter here- boards tend not to mess around with this kind of thing, and many regulations and findings have been promulgated to prevent people from doing exactly what you are suggesting that you might do.
 
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Try to think through how you might answer a question about your professional training and credentials. (I assume you'd want to include your degree after your name--my guess is you paid enough for it!) Presuming that you are not deceptive about not having a license in the first place, what do you think you'd say if someone asked, "So you have a doctoral degree but you're not a psychologist...why not?" The truth would be a hard answer, no? "I couldn't pass the test." So you'd say something else? And you're asking if what you are considering is unethical? Perhaps you once were a victim of a predatory program, but it's your responsibility, if you plan to work with vulnerable people, to live up to your degree. The EPPP is not meant to be unpassable--figure it out.
 
Psychology Licensure Boards generally have jurisdiction over most aspects of the practice of psychology within the jurisdiction, rather than just the licensure of psychologists. This involves hearing complaints and assigning penalties to those who may be practicing psychology without a license. The legality of your plan is based on the jurisdiction(s) in which you practice. If you go the non-licensed life-coach route, there will likely be limitation not only on what you can do as a life-coach. Obviously, anything defined in the regulations as "the practice of psychology" will be off-limits, as will any other practices overseen by a licensure board (such as social work, marriage and family therapy, medicine, plumbing, etc.). Additionally, there will likely be limits not only on how you refer to yourself and your practice (i.e. you probably can't use the terms "psychologist" or "psychology" in any of your public representations of yourself or your work), as well as potential limits on how you reference your training and degree, such as referencing degrees or designations (e.g. "doctor") associated with your psychological training. If you decide to go this route, I'd suggest that you carefully review not only the licensure laws in your jurisdiction, but also any and all board memos, findings, sanctions, and other publications related to the practice of psychology, with special attention to any publications related to the "practice of psychology without a license." Opinions don't matter here- boards tend not to mess around with this kind of thing, and many regulations and findings have been promulgated to prevent people from doing exactly what you are suggesting that you might do.
I'm not OP.

That said, I'm still confused how a psychology license board would have any jurisdiction over the practice of a 'life coach' if they are not claiming to 'practice psychology'. Thus why this is an issue to start with. There are not, to my knowledge, clear boundaries that make 'life coaching' something that license boards are overseeing, criticizing, and making calls on. You're right that there are distinctions in terms of what behaviors can be claimed as falling under the purview, but there are plenty of people engaging in 'life coaching' that aren't monitored by license boards anywhere and that boards have little power to oversee. In honesty, I would wager the number of places where the term is somehow closely monitored is far less common. I'm not sure of any states off the top of my head, but I'm only familiar with a few in the midwest, north east, and southeast.

This whole problem highlights the issue to me since I can't tell the difference between coaching and supportive therapy- A rose by any other name...

From the coach federation FAQ on what coaching is
ICF defines coaching as partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential, which is particularly important in today’s uncertain and complex environment. Coaches honor the client as the expert in his or her life and work and believe every client is creative, resourceful and whole. Standing on this foundation, the coach's responsibility is to:
  • Discover, clarify, and align with what the client wants to achieve
  • Encourage client self-discovery
  • Elicit client-generated solutions and strategies
  • Hold the client responsible and accountable
This process helps clients dramatically improve their outlook on work and life, while improving their leadership skills and unlocking their potential.
 
You are right that the boundaries are pretty nebulous. If an individual sticks exclusively outside the bounds of psychological practice, they could potentially get away with it.

That said, because those boundaries are nebulous they would be difficult for someone with training to stay within. That seems an incredibly fine line to walk. One can't simply open a "CBT for Depression Clinic", say "I'm a life coach not a psychologist", stick your tongue out at the licensing board and expect to be fine because its "outside their jurisdiction". Its not - otherwise I imagine everyone would be doing it to save time/money/effort associated with maintaining a license. Whether you would get caught is a separate issue, but they could come after you. Depending on the state, I believe that could even include jail time (i.e. criminal - not just civil - penalties). If someone has a psychology degree but kept failing the exam and started practicing anyways...I imagine that case could be quite easy to prove.
 
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Agreed, in theory. I just think its more 'protected' than we accept. I know of someone who went through an accredited program at a highly reputable R1, did not get licensed, and now practices as a life coach. In fact, I know two from two separate programs. This case may differ due to the failing of the EPPP, but that is protected information ...anyway. The point is that the answer is not a clear cut 'psych boards' get oversight because its 'psychological practice'. It isn't that clear; I wish it were.
 
Agreed, in theory. I just think its more 'protected' than we accept. I know of someone who went through an accredited program at a highly reputable R1, did not get licensed, and now practices as a life coach. In fact, I know two from two separate programs. This case may differ due to the failing of the EPPP, but that is protected information ...anyway. The point is that the answer is not a clear cut 'psych boards' get oversight because its 'psychological practice'. It isn't that clear; I wish it were.

I'd imagine that frequently in these instances, it's up to the community and/or other practitioners to actually bring individuals to the attention of licensing boards, as I don't imagine licensing boards are often able to go out "hunting" for these sorts of situations.

I also agree that it's nebulous, and probably depends on services offered and types of individuals with whom you work. I would think that boards tend to be more skeptical of individuals trained in psychology or a related practice-oriented mental health field than those not, as in the latter case, similar to "you can't fake a strength" is the idea of not being able to practice something you're not actually trained in. Doesn't mean they wouldn't step in and stop someone from saying they are trained in psychology/as a psychologist when they aren't, though (again relating to regulating the practice, or purported practice, of psychology).

But for individuals with the training who choose not to pursue licensure, I'd imagine it has the potential to become stickier.

Personally, if I were license-eligible, I would just go ahead and pursue the license to save myself the headaches and potential difficulties. I'd think that not doing so has the tendency to "look suspicious" and raise a few eyebrows, justified or not.
 
I'm not OP.

That said, I'm still confused how a psychology license board would have any jurisdiction over the practice of a 'life coach' if they are not claiming to 'practice psychology'.

They may claim they aren't conducting psychotherapy or psych related things, but they can still be prosecuted for such actions if the courts find otherwise. A person may be providing "cosmetic help" to people, but then a medical board goes after them for practicing medicine without a license bc they are performing surgical procedures w/o proper training and oversight.
 
Agreed, in theory. I just think its more 'protected' than we accept. I know of someone who went through an accredited program at a highly reputable R1, did not get licensed, and now practices as a life coach. In fact, I know two from two separate programs. This case may differ due to the failing of the EPPP, but that is protected information ...anyway. The point is that the answer is not a clear cut 'psych boards' get oversight because its 'psychological practice'. It isn't that clear; I wish it were.
Sure they can get away with it and most state boards are probably not going to go after them, but I wouldn't want to operate that way. The ultimate arbiter is really the courts and when you are being sued and you are a doctoral trained person operating as a "life coach", you're going to be hard pressed to mount a defense. If the case gets enough publicity then the licensing board could go after you and there is often a criminal penalty for practicing without a license.

I guess the answer to the OP is that it could be illegal in many states as it would be considered practicing psychology without a license, but you would probably get away with it until something bad happens. Sort of analogous to drinking and driving.
 
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