advice to end all advice for undergrads: your critique please

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Amazing post. I do have a question regarding classload though. This past semester, I took Calc 1-Bio-Chem1-English 2-Electives, 19 credits. I'm rocking every class with an A except Calc 1, mostly because I somehow got lucky on my entrance test and tested into Trig, skipping college algebra and screwing myself. Its tough to find the derivative of a log function when you've literally never worked with log functions. And I'm pulling a C in there right now, planning to retake.

Am I taking too much? I don't feel overwhelmed, and I feel the calc problem justifies my not getting an A. Next semester I'm knocking out Orgo 1-Chem 2-Calc 1(retake if under a B, calc 2 if B)-Gen Physics-Electives. I also want to do some EC stuff, shadow, and possibly work in a job that'll help with my goals, either CNA or tutoring. Am I taking on too much? And how much different is a 3.85 from a 4.0 on an application?

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My only question/comment that hasn't been addressed by others would be about the letters, of which you recommend 8 - which to me seems excessive. I only applied in TX, but all the schools here recommended a committee letter or 2-3 individual letters. Are there places that actually recommend/require 8 letters? Perhaps its just me, but if I read an application that had 8 letters of rec attached I'd think the candidate was pandering and just grabbing as many as they could.

No, I didn't say you should send 8, just that you should collect about as much so that if you apply to a large number of programs, you have options as far as what letters to use. Some schools want a letter from a physician, some want at least 1 non-science faculty. You get the picture. For a broadly applying applicant, 2 science faculty letters won't cut it. In your case, you didn't need as much since you applied to a select number of programs.

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Amazing post. I do have a question regarding classload though. This past semester, I took Calc 1-Bio-Chem1-English 2-Electives, 19 credits. I'm rocking every class with an A except Calc 1, mostly because I somehow got lucky on my entrance test and tested into Trig, skipping college algebra and screwing myself. Its tough to find the derivative of a log function when you've literally never worked with log functions. And I'm pulling a C in there right now, planning to retake.

Am I taking too much? I don't feel overwhelmed, and I feel the calc problem justifies my not getting an A. Next semester I'm knocking out Orgo 1-Chem 2-Calc 1(retake if under a B, calc 2 if B)-Gen Physics-Electives. I also want to do some EC stuff, shadow, and possibly work in a job that'll help with my goals, either CNA or tutoring. Am I taking on too much? And how much different is a 3.85 from a 4.0 on an application?

You might be taking too much, based on your current grade in Calc. On the other hand, you attribute this mostly to going into the class with a poor foundation for the subject material. As long as you don't make such a mistake again, you are probably fine. But don't underestimate organic chemistry and please, please, please research your professor before enrolling.

As far as calc 2, I wouldn't even bother. The vast majority of schools don't require even 1 semester of calc much less an entire year. Cross reference schools you are interested in the MSAR for further guidance. I personally wouldn't retake a C if I just had the one (w a 3.85), but that's up to you. At the very best you are just going to average it out to a B, and that assumes you can get an A the second time. Be a well rounded applicant the one C won't hold you down in the slightest even at top schools.

All of this is just my opinion and others might take a different approach. This is just what I would do.

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You might be taking too much, based on your current grade in Calc. On the other hand, you attribute this mostly to going into the class with a poor foundation for the subject material. As long as you don't make such a mistake again, you are probably fine. But don't underestimate organic chemistry and please, please, please research your professor before enrolling.

As far as calc 2, I wouldn't even bother. The vast majority of schools don't require even 1 semester of calc much less an entire year. Cross reference schools you are interested in the MSAR for further guidance. I personally wouldn't retake a C if I just had the one (w a 3.85), but that's up to you. At the very best you are just going to average it out to a B, and that assumes you can get an A the second time. Be a well rounded applicant the one C won't hold you down in the slightest even at top schools.

All of this is just my opinion and others might take a different approach. This is just what I would do.

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Well we only have one professor for Orgo haha but he is very good. I'm at community college but he used to work at the university and is well respected and known. And I'm surprised on the Calculus...I guess the places I was looking at want either that or Stats and seems stats would be more useful for med school.

And with this schedule I'll get all of my prereqs done...all but a couple biology classes by my Junior year and free to work on my degree and ECs. Good idea?
 
Well we only have one professor for Orgo haha but he is very good. I'm at community college but he used to work at the university and is well respected and known. And I'm surprised on the Calculus...I guess the places I was looking at want either that or Stats and seems stats would be more useful for med school.

And with this schedule I'll get all of my prereqs done...all but a couple biology classes by my Junior year and free to work on my degree and ECs. Good idea?

I would say that's a good idea. I thought most degree programs require some sort of stats. For psychology, I did statistics for behavioral sciences (a 4 hour class). It'd be a good class to take. I'm curious what schools you found that require calc. The only ones I can think of are a few of the Ivies. But overall, yeah I think you are on the right track personally.
 
Wait, is a LOR from your pre-med advisor a STAPLE of the application? Because we don't have individual pre-med advisors, we just see the one that is available at the time... The other LOR's seem reasonable, though.
 
Wait, is a LOR from your pre-med advisor a STAPLE of the application? Because we don't have individual pre-med advisors, we just see the one that is available at the time... The other LOR's seem reasonable, though.

No, after thinking about it, I should correct that. I know some schools ask for a letter from an adviser, though I remember using my academic (not the pre-medical) adviser. Also, it was a minority of schools who required this letter but it'd still be a good one to have just in case you need it when you apply to a bunch of programs.
 
I would add:

Even if you have AP Chem I and II credit, don't be tricked into taking O-Chem I and II as a freshman. I've seen too many grad applications from applicants who dug themselves into a hole as freshmen due to 0-chem and who never really recovered.
Not only that. I was tricked into it, and then had some difficulty with med schools that didn't accept AP credit. Made life a lot more complicated than it needed to be. should have just taken gen chem I and II for the gpa boost and an easier app cycle.
 
This is really good advice:D you took the words right out of my mouth

Haha the only thing is, and this is a big assumption on my part, but college freshmen (who are the ones to be heeding this advice) just aren't this mature and organized! Not that this is anything bad (i hope i didn't offend anyone~); I just think that you learn these things as you get older and through experience:) I feel that if I had to do this again, now, I will be able to approach my professors after classes and give them a chance to get to know me as a person...but as an underclassman, I felt way too awkward to talk to my professors about anything other than class material.

Also, I was clueless as to how to apply for research/volunteering opportunities (lack of professionalism and was unaware of my school's resources)..and I didn't even imagine that I should have started preparing for the MCAT after sophomore year.

Though i don't want to say that you have to be a cookie-cutter med school applicant, if you really want to be a doctor, I think preparation is the key to gaining an acceptance to med school. There's a checklist, and you need to check off all the requirements + hidden requirements (like research) year by year.

Btw please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I love exaggerating, esp when I feel strongly about something (like this thread):rolleyes:
 
No, after thinking about it, I should correct that. I know some schools ask for a letter from an adviser, though I remember using my academic (not the pre-medical) adviser. Also, it was a minority of schools who required this letter but it'd still be a good one to have just in case you need it when you apply to a bunch of programs.

Thanks for the clarification! Also, I go to a large state U, so what advisor should I be trying to get an LOR from? I actually have a good relationship with the Dean of Biological Sciences from my EC activity (leadership role) and taking a seminar of hers; would that adequately fulfill this "advisor" LOR, IYO?
 
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Thanks for the clarification! Also, I go to a large state U, so what advisor should I be trying to get an LOR from? I actually have a good relationship with the Dean of Biological Sciences from my EC activity (leadership role) and taking a seminar of hers; would that adequately fulfill this "advisor" LOR, IYO?

At my university we had people with the specific title of advisor that we could go to for help in getting through the process. But then in my grad program, the dean was the advisor for all students in the program. So, it seems to me that if that's what that Dean did for you, then I don't see how it couldn't hurt. The term "advisor" is such a loose/vague term and different schools have a different idea of what constitutes an advisor.
 
Thanks for the clarification! Also, I go to a large state U, so what advisor should I be trying to get an LOR from? I actually have a good relationship with the Dean of Biological Sciences from my EC activity (leadership role) and taking a seminar of hers; would that adequately fulfill this "advisor" LOR, IYO?

At my university we had people with the specific title of advisor that we could go to for help in getting through the process. But then in my grad program, the dean was the advisor for all students in the program. So, it seems to me that if that's what that Dean did for you, then I don't see how it couldn't hurt. The term "advisor" is such a loose/vague term and different schools have a different idea of what constitutes an advisor.

Yeah, I mean, I was close with my academic (non-premedical adviser) so it was easy to procure a letter from her. If you don't have that relationship with your adviser, best to ask the Dean who you are much closer with since you think he can write you a much better letter.
 
Wait, is a LOR from your pre-med advisor a STAPLE of the application? Because we don't have individual pre-med advisors, we just see the one that is available at the time... The other LOR's seem reasonable, though.

No, after thinking about it, I should correct that. I know some schools ask for a letter from an adviser, though I remember using my academic (not the pre-medical) adviser. Also, it was a minority of schools who required this letter but it'd still be a good one to have just in case you need it when you apply to a bunch of programs.

I edited the original post to reflect this change.
 
Yeah, I mean, I was close with my academic (non-premedical adviser) so it was easy to procure a letter from her. If you don't have that relationship with your adviser, best to ask the Dean who you are much closer with since you think he can write you a much better letter.

Yeah and as you already stated - be wary of advisors. If you get the slightest hint of being uncomfortable being there asking for help with classes, then definitely avoid getting a letter from that advisor. My genereal advisor for undergrad was insanely nice and optomistic but I had to switch to my biology advisor which almost ruined me. If I had the choice, I'd of stuck it out with the original advisor and gotten a letter from her. She was loads more helpful and I didn't feel like I was being interviewed for med school everytime I met with her.
 
If you are one of those students who really has to work extra hard to keep up in class, you must realize that many of your friends and even family members will not understand this. Try and explain it to them and maybe they will understand. Even if they don’t, true friends will always support you even if they can’t empathize. Ditch the girlfriend or boyfriend who is making your life difficult (after you have explained to them repeatedly the importance of your education and time management). On the same hand, don’t push the important people in your life away. Friends and family will be with you long after you graduate and you will do well to surround yourself with people who are supportive of all the positive aspects of your life, including (but not limited to) your aspirations to become a physician.

THIS!

I have to tell you it is really hard having a relationship end during this, but if you are doing nothing but constantly worrying about the relationship because a partner isn't being 100% on board and understanding after multiple times of explaining - I guess this is what needs to be done.

Thank you for the information!
 

In my opinion, these are the types of LORs you need:

- Three letters from a science faculty member (biology, chemistry, physics – sometimes math will count but I would get three in science first and fourth from a math professor if you believe she will write you a good one).
- At least one letter from a non-science faculty member.
- A letter from your pre-medical adviser.
- A letter from a physician (M.D. or D.O.)
- A letter from your research supervisor
- A letter from your volunteer supervisor (i.e. the hospital volunteer coordinator most familiar with you)


Our school has a policy of 4 maximum letters (7 for MD/Ph.D. & allowance for extra research ones for Harvard etc.), in which I am sure we are not unique. Apparently 95% of our pre-meds get accepted into one of their top 6 choices so I think 4 is probably enough. Usually it's 2 science, 1 non science, 1 PI which could double as a second science letter, and then 1 from volunteering/clinical/work if you need it. There's also an extra one that the pre-med service people send out.
 
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My advice on MCAT scheduling would be to take it in the summer of your junior year. But only if you are willing to take a gap year. I loved my year off, and I had plenty of time uninhibited by classwork to study for the MCAT. I think the gap year seriously helped my application (I did research), and it will help you recharge. Less stress for the MCAT, less stress at interviews, and an opportunity to relax just a bit. Win-win-win.
 
Thank you cbrons and everyone else that contributed to this thread :love:
 
I wrote this about a month ago. We have switched our advising system at my university and as an outgoing student who starts medical school this fall, I wanted to leave the new pre-medical students there with some advice. Every freshman who is designated "pre-med" will be given this next year to read. I have edited it a little bit to make it more general (not just for people at my school). I am posting this here for reviews or advice you might have to offer if you have lots of free time and would like to read it. I tried to insert some humor here and there.

This is all the advice you will ever need as a pre-medical student. Each point is not necessarily numbered according to importance.

1. The Role of Advisers (or: Plan your own future, don’t let others plan it for you)

"Pre-med advisers" are not necessarily the best source for information or opinions on whether or not you have a chance at being admitted. Some are okay; a few are really good but most are absolutely clueless. Don't let any of them tell you have no shot (especially if you are second semester freshman who didn’t serve time in federal prison for robbing banks). I never had this happen to me but I know people who did (at other schools). I consulted with the pre-health professions adviser at my undergraduate institution one or two times. I mostly did my own research and planned my classes by bouncing ideas around with my regular (major) adviser. At some schools, the pre-medical adviser is your sole academic adviser. At school things were different (I was a psychology major so I had a psychology academic adviser with access to the pre-health professions adviser).

In any case, you should look at your schools course catalog and cross-reference it with the requirements listed in the MSAR (https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/) and the AACOM College Book (http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Pages/default.aspx). Every school has different (but basically similar) required and recommended courses. I can’t even begin to tell you how many kids would complain about taking the wrong chemistry course or taking a difficult math class that no school required (some would say that higher level math courses look really good on an application and maybe they are correct but that doesn’t mean a marginal student should take physical chemistry for the sole reason that it might “stand out”). People who did this were usually the type who didn’t make it as a pre-medical student and switched to something else because they did not have enough invested in their future to do their own research on something as important as class selection. Make sure you investigate your professors prior to enrolling in their class. There are a number of online resources where you can do this. Just don’t go into a class without knowing what to expect unless absolutely necessary. Upper-classmen who took the course with a professor can also be good resources.

Just like you shouldn't blindly accept the class schedule your academic adviser creates for you each semester, you shouldn't accept any of the advice the pre-medical adviser gives you without checking yourself. You should examine the schools you are interested in going to and find the appropriate courses. Don't be an idiot and ass/u/me that just because someone has the title "adviser" that they know what the hell they are talking about. There is a good reason why third party medical school admissions consulting companies (i.e. MedEdits) are thriving and it is not because the average university adviser is all that knowledgeable about medical school admissions. If you want to be a lazy sap and just go along with what the adviser says without doing your own research, good luck to ya Johnson.

Agree. Always better to be planning your own or have some good mentors that you can always turn to.

My adviser did not help me in anything for this whole stressful application process. Even worse, when I first talked to this person, he/she told me that I will not able to complete a B.S degree and should thinking about something easier.:wtf:

From scheduling, MCAT to application, it was all without his/her help. He/she chose to help people that was sucking up to him/her instead. I was so mad at this person that it pushes me to work harder to prove her/him wrong. So far it works well because the students he/she chose to help is behind me.:smuggrin:

This is just an example for people out there. Not everyone will willing to help you. The most important thing is to believe in yourself, don't let people tell you nonsense.
 
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