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Advice to Undergraduate Pre-Med students ?
- Thread starter Melchi
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Get a high GPA and high MCAT so that you can get into the best school that you possibly can. You're posting in the DO forum, but you should be working hard right now so that you don't have to go to a DO school.
You can stand out with things like your success in sports (especially if you compete nationally or internationally), research (especially if you get publications), etc. But really, your GPA and MCAT will largely determine what happens to you.
You can stand out with things like your success in sports (especially if you compete nationally or internationally), research (especially if you get publications), etc. But really, your GPA and MCAT will largely determine what happens to you.
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High GPA (>3.6) and high MCAT (>510). Play some sports, get involved in research, and do some community building activities in third world countries.
Apply to MDs for min two cycles before going to DO schools.
Otherwise, have some fun and get plenty of love making sessions. Smoke a few fat joints while you're at it to get them out of your system. Why do I say these crazy things? Bc you don't want to do these things as a physician.
I would honestly give these advices to my younger self at this point.
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I disagree with 2 cycles then DO but am all here for the bolded lol. Know your wishes. If you have the application for MD give it a couple cycles if interested in anything competitive but if you are dead set on primary care then DO will be fine. It all depends on your goals. Also, be realistic idc if you want to be a CT surgeon if you cannot score competitive for MD then take the DO
my advice is know yourself and your goals. Medical students rush to get into any school. Then want to do something competitive and bitch about being at a DO program. Know yourself and your goals. I had an MD application but due to being in California I got no love but from DO. I absolutely would not change my path for anything. I ended up in the specialty and program I wanted. But I knew myself before applying. I knew I wanted to do PC
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Don’t take yourself too seriously. On here it’s pervasive. Just work hard and better yourself
D
deleted859689
No matter what you want to do, strive to have the best GPA to keep your doors open. I had < 3.0 GPA and am most likely going to be a DO. I have nothing against being a DO and know I will love a career in medicine no matter what specialty I end up in. However, having a better undergrad GPA would have opened more doors to get into an MD school, which opens more doors for competitive specialties.
Also research and volunteer! Focus on learning and memorizing the material in classes related to the MCAT (chem, phys, bio, biochem, psych/soc). It will save you some headache studyingfor the MCAT.
Also research and volunteer! Focus on learning and memorizing the material in classes related to the MCAT (chem, phys, bio, biochem, psych/soc). It will save you some headache studyingfor the MCAT.
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Get and MBA and MPH then go the CEO route so you can tell all the rest of the fools that you’re the boss.
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Start volunteering ASAP, just do a little bit a week over the 4 years and it adds up. Don't be scrambling at the end.
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What's with you, man?
A
AnatomyGrey12
Get swoll bro. That's my new standard advice for threads like these. You should be putting plateS (multiple) on that bar before med school starts.
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Shadow a DO
Get LOR from same
Engage in service to others less fortunate than yourself
Get work experience
Get off campus and out of your comfort zone
Learn something about the scientific method.
Get clinical experience with patient contact, and not from behind a desk.
Read this:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig
ISBN-13: 978-1607140627
Do what you love and love what you do
Always have a Plan B
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Can confirm.
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Make sure your pre med committee knows who you are. I was told we didn’t have one at my undergrad and my state MD schools wouldn’t consider my app without a letter from the committee.
turns out I was misinformed by my counselor and had I just known them throughout undergrad I might be at a cheap state MD school right now.
turns out I was misinformed by my counselor and had I just known them throughout undergrad I might be at a cheap state MD school right now.
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Lesson here: never trust college or "pre-health" counselors. Despite being literally paid to give advice, they rarely know what they're talking about.
DennisReynolds
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Go to a community college.
Major in something stupid easy like history, psych, art etc.
Take your pre-reqs spread out and transfer to some no-name university that is cheap and that has small class sizes.
GPA > 3.8, MCAT >510-515, with 3-4 EC activities that range from clinical experience, underserved experiences, tutoring, research (if you want) and something non-clinical.
Get 3-4 solid LORs.
Apply MD day one and apply to DO as a back-up.
Should be no reason why you can't get into a MD medical school.
If you STRICTLY want DO, then go for >3.4 sciGPA and >505 MCAT. You'll get in somewhere.
I don't recommend DO programs due to this merger stuff and taking 5 board exams is just too much stress for somebody to go through. I did it. and I hated every single second of having to study for COMLEX exams which don't matter much if you pass, but can screw you if you fail. But I digress.
I ended up at a program with people who went to stanford, UCLA, and one dude from Cornell. All still have >100,000 left from undergrad loans too.
Tack on the 250-300K loan from med school and you'll see how much going to a CC is worth it.
And here I am with them applying to residencies and getting interviews and hasn't held me back one bit.
Major in something stupid easy like history, psych, art etc.
Take your pre-reqs spread out and transfer to some no-name university that is cheap and that has small class sizes.
GPA > 3.8, MCAT >510-515, with 3-4 EC activities that range from clinical experience, underserved experiences, tutoring, research (if you want) and something non-clinical.
Get 3-4 solid LORs.
Apply MD day one and apply to DO as a back-up.
Should be no reason why you can't get into a MD medical school.
If you STRICTLY want DO, then go for >3.4 sciGPA and >505 MCAT. You'll get in somewhere.
I don't recommend DO programs due to this merger stuff and taking 5 board exams is just too much stress for somebody to go through. I did it. and I hated every single second of having to study for COMLEX exams which don't matter much if you pass, but can screw you if you fail. But I digress.
I ended up at a program with people who went to stanford, UCLA, and one dude from Cornell. All still have >100,000 left from undergrad loans too.
Tack on the 250-300K loan from med school and you'll see how much going to a CC is worth it.
And here I am with them applying to residencies and getting interviews and hasn't held me back one bit.
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Kind of a necro bump here but I really can't emphasize enough how much the numbers game matters. GPA and MCAT are by far you two biggest and most important factors. All the research, EC's, leadership, shadowing and volunteering in teh world won't make up for having grades and an MCAT that won't make it past a schools minimum filters.
Past that when it comes to volunteering I actually say don't volunteer at a hospital reflexively, your knowledge of medicine should come from shadowing hours. Volunteering HAS to be something you care about- if that happens to be volunteering at a hospital then great. However, it's so super mega easy to pick out people who volunteer just for the resume builder and its a huge turnoff. If you volunteer at a place and for a cause you care about, then when you talk about it during an interview you come off as passionate- and thats what's going to separate you from the pack...IMO of course.
Past that when it comes to volunteering I actually say don't volunteer at a hospital reflexively, your knowledge of medicine should come from shadowing hours. Volunteering HAS to be something you care about- if that happens to be volunteering at a hospital then great. However, it's so super mega easy to pick out people who volunteer just for the resume builder and its a huge turnoff. If you volunteer at a place and for a cause you care about, then when you talk about it during an interview you come off as passionate- and thats what's going to separate you from the pack...IMO of course.
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I don't think anyone is picked out based on hospital volunteerng. Almost all premeds have that.
Just get the GPA and the MCAT everything else will work itself out. Getting a DO letter is about the hardest thing you can do aside from that GPA and MCAT.
Also get swole was the correct answer.
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He's really not wrong. I honestly recommend that anyone who wants to do medicine really reconsider if there isn't an easier life decision they can make for themselves. And if you can be discouraged by a statement like this, then you really should do something else.
I mean I think overall I'm very happy with where I am now. And it made me grow significantly more than any other experience in my life. But it also required more sacrifice than anything else. This even before coming to terms with the fact that caring for the sick and dying and watching people die despite your best efforts is psychologically damaging.
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Yeah, I get that it's important to consider other options first. In a rather novel event for me, I've had a couple college freshmen ask me about the path to medicine. I explain it as best I can, but I also gauge their interests and preferences and suggest careers like DPT, PA, nursing, business, tech without telling them they're not qualified for medicine or that it's not worth it.
But I personally find it ridiculous to say, "Don't do it. It sucks." It's cynical and counterproductive and I don't see the point.
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This is from the perspective of a person who strongly enjoys what he does. And because I don't feel trapped or I find some happiness between the misery I can probably muster up an explaination. But for those who are not this is the equivalent of "ok boomer" except from the medical profession looking down to starry eyed kids.
I think a big part of wellness is acknowledging that some people aren't happy with their career. But unlike a lot of others, it is very hard to bail out of medicine. So I can understand when someone says something like this.
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I think it also depends what part of training that person giving an opinion is in. There has been times where I’m the most cynical person. Queue 1st month of MS1, weeks leading up to match day, and the infamous step 1 studying... but now going 6 months into intern year I absolutely recommend everyone going into medicine
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I agree with everything but the 'more sacrifice than anything else.' Maybe in college degree type jobs, but you can definitely sacrifice more in other lines of work. I think its just the verbiage that bothers me, I would never make that comment to someone who had their legs blown off by an ICD etc. We do work harder than most professions through our training so I agree with the general point and I get where you were coming from.
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A low GPA is the most challenging setback to recover from. If your grades slip, or aren't where you want them to be, reign in the ECs, lighten the courseload, or pause school until you've got the situation under control.
GPA and MCAT open the door, ECs get you through. You can stumble through an open door, you can't barrel through a closed one.
Medical school isn't the start of life, it's the continuation of years of effort.
Treat your ECs like learning experiences, not checkboxes. Remember what you learned from them.
Ask for LORs as you go along - don't wait until you apply to ask. Have them save the letter in Interfolio.
Don't forget to network.
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I have not ever had my leg blown up. so for me it is a hard sacrifice.
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...this is why I say not to do it reflexively and to volunteer in something you are passionate about...I'm sorry I guess I needed to further spell it out?
D
deleted978973
I know you're not gonna listen to me because pre-meds never do, but don't do it. Go to PA or NP school.
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It's a tough road. It's long, it's hard, you miss time with people that you don't get back. You lose parts of yourself, but I guess that's just a part of growth.
And there is a weight that comes with medicine that stays with you. You worry about your patients. You worry about the decisions you've made. I used to think that there was this point where you gain "enough" knowledge not to worry about some of your medical decisions. Now it just seems like people are faking it or deluding themselves. You try your best and you hope you can still sleep at night.
There are numerous days that I question why I'm doing this. But there are also a lot of days where I couldn't imagine getting the type of joy I get out of my work anywhere else.
And there is a weight that comes with medicine that stays with you. You worry about your patients. You worry about the decisions you've made. I used to think that there was this point where you gain "enough" knowledge not to worry about some of your medical decisions. Now it just seems like people are faking it or deluding themselves. You try your best and you hope you can still sleep at night.
There are numerous days that I question why I'm doing this. But there are also a lot of days where I couldn't imagine getting the type of joy I get out of my work anywhere else.
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It’s amazing how pervasive that is through our education. It’s true for most schools, especially DO, applying for residency.
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I can confirm that going to a CC for two years and switching to my state university has not held me back in the slightest sense. I received 6 acceptances.
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Hit all the major checkmarks:
3.5+ GPA
510+ MCAT
Shadowing with doctors of two different specialties, one a DO if applying DO.
Clinical Experience
Volunteer Work
Research Work
Leadership Experience
After that, just be yourself 🙂
David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
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Can also confirm that CC -> State is not a deterrent. Saved a boadload and got to be close to home and family.
David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors
I wish I would have known all of this graduating high school. Would have been a 3rd year now instead of starting med school in 6 months
I'm not sure if its been said but read assigned/recommended scientific articles. The more practice you give yourself reading and analyzing them the easier the MCAT will seem.
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do everything you can! choose a major that you are passionate about and thus will be able to exceed at. choose activities at school that you will be able to demonstrate long-term commitment and growth in. things like pre-med clubs, volunteer groups for a cause, etc. definitely shadowing and volunteering at hospitals!
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Bad advice.
Make a decision based on your app if you can go MD or DO.
If borderline, apply both.
Simple as that.
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It really depends on your personal situation. If you are 22/23 and have an OK/good GPA but subpar MCAT, then I would probably recommend applying MD a couple times while improving your MCAT. If you are a 27 yo with a GPA more than a standard deviation below the mean and a good MCAT, I would say apply to both and go to the best one you can. As you said, all of this has to do with assessing your own app, which includes things like state of residence, connections to schools, etc.
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Major in what you are passionate about, unless it is engineering. Don't do that. It's too long and too hard to get good grades.
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The best way to stand out is to work hard and be yourself. Have some hobbies/interests outside of pre-med stuff that make you unique and explore them. Always be kind to your professors and thank them for their help if you ask for it.
Join clubs that you’re genuinely interested in and can help you with your future goals, such as a pre-med organization or a volunteering/service organization. If you can, obtain some leadership positions in these clubs.
You should be reading your class notes and MCAT test prep books to obtain the highest GPA and MCAT score possible so you can be competitive for MD schools. I attend a DO school but you should always be reaching to attend an MD school.
Overall, make sure your exploring your options and make sure medical school is what you want. Shadow physicians, learn from current medical students and make sure it’s the lifestyle you can manage. In undergrad, CHALLENGE YOURSELF. I can’t stress this enough. I took the “easy way” by not taking the tougher upper-division science course and I paid for it my first semester. People were flying through anatomy and embryology when I was trying to learn what the mesoderm was and where my tibia was. Study your butt off for the MCAT and post the highest score you can, and do NOT take it until you are ready/scoring above your desired score. The more you challenge yourself now, the easier the transition into medical school. Best of luck, PM if you have any further questions.
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^this. Harder you push yourself, the more it will pay dividends in the future, the better the doctor you will become
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If I had the ability to start all over from my freshman year having the knowledge that I do now, there are a few things that I would have changed.
1.) learn the material as if you will be tested on it 4 years from now. I feel as if I learned a lot of material just for the purpose of my classes which led to more memorization rather than conceptual learning. I believe this would have tremendously improved my MCAT score.
2.) Find a healthcare related job early and stay involved long term. (EMT, PCA, MA)
3.) Find a volunteer organization that you really like and stick with it. Don't be afraid to leave a place if you don't find yourself doing productive work or if you don't enjoy what you do. Find something that you do enjoy where you make a meaningful impact and stay involved long term.
4.) Participate in research. This will make it much easier when it comes time to finding letters of recommendation and it will also show your interested in providing something to the academic community.
5.) Use interfolio and collect letters of recommendation early. DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU APPLY. The majority of professors who said they will write letters for you will either back out, forget anything substantially important about you, or not write a good letter due to length of time.
Evidently, the way I prepared for medical school was sufficient as I have acceptances in hand and will be starting this fall, but these would be the big things I wish I would have known; it's possible that I could have been accepted to my school of choice had I followed this advice. Other than that just do well in school, get a good GPA, and score 510+. There is only so much you can do to have a well rounded app but if you follow the 5 tips I presented here you will be well on your way to having that well rounded app.
1.) learn the material as if you will be tested on it 4 years from now. I feel as if I learned a lot of material just for the purpose of my classes which led to more memorization rather than conceptual learning. I believe this would have tremendously improved my MCAT score.
2.) Find a healthcare related job early and stay involved long term. (EMT, PCA, MA)
3.) Find a volunteer organization that you really like and stick with it. Don't be afraid to leave a place if you don't find yourself doing productive work or if you don't enjoy what you do. Find something that you do enjoy where you make a meaningful impact and stay involved long term.
4.) Participate in research. This will make it much easier when it comes time to finding letters of recommendation and it will also show your interested in providing something to the academic community.
5.) Use interfolio and collect letters of recommendation early. DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU APPLY. The majority of professors who said they will write letters for you will either back out, forget anything substantially important about you, or not write a good letter due to length of time.
Evidently, the way I prepared for medical school was sufficient as I have acceptances in hand and will be starting this fall, but these would be the big things I wish I would have known; it's possible that I could have been accepted to my school of choice had I followed this advice. Other than that just do well in school, get a good GPA, and score 510+. There is only so much you can do to have a well rounded app but if you follow the 5 tips I presented here you will be well on your way to having that well rounded app.
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