advice - what should i do?

[batz321]

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i'll try to make this as short as possible...

i graduated a year ago from a very well known university in the midwest, after a subpar college career. just like everyone else i just didn't really try too hard in college, and graduated with a 2.75 (including 2 D's and 2 F's), with almost no science classes.
i'm a dual citizen, and am now in the israel military for approximately another year and a half (will this have any positive effect on my application?)
i need to know what my steps should be to apply.
like i said, my poor grades are a result of my not trying, not my ability - i'm counting on a very good MCAT score.
can i work? will night school for some of the pre-reqs be as acceptable on my app?
with my gpa - i probably won't be able to get into a postbacc program? how much time should i take to finish my science classes (should i take many more higher level science classes)?
what are my odds if i take the right steps from now?

thank you very much for all your help!

 

[relentless11]

i'll try to make this as short as possible...

i graduated a year ago from a very well known university in the midwest, after a subpar college career. just like everyone else i just didn't really try too hard in college, and graduated with a 2.75 (including 2 D's and 2 F's), with almost no science classes.
i'm a dual citizen, and am now in the israel military for approximately another year and a half (will this have any positive effect on my application?)
i need to know what my steps should be to apply.
like i said, my poor grades are a result of my not trying, not my ability - i'm counting on a very good MCAT score.
can i work? will night school for some of the pre-reqs be as acceptable on my app?
with my gpa - i probably won't be able to get into a postbacc program? how much time should i take to finish my science classes (should i take many more higher level science classes)?
what are my odds if i take the right steps from now?

thank you very much for all your help!

Ultimately a low GPA is a low GPA, adcoms will see it that way. Saying that its because of this or that is pointless, showing evidence of capacity to do well is another thing. Now, the good news is, given you don't have many science classes, then you can probably get a good science GPA. The bad news is your current GPA will weigh down any attempt at boosting your overall GPA. If you do a forum search, there are many kinds of post-bacc programs, so its always possible to do post-bacc coursework.

As for your dual citizenship, I don't think it matters, and I don't even think it'll show up. However what is most concerning is how well you will do. Neither of us can read the future, only you can change your study habits. But if I had a dollar for every person that says they have a low GPA because they didn't try, not because of their skills....then I wouldn't be worried about med school tuition in the future..haha. My point is not to discourage you, but this statement is a dime a dozen. I have known people to succeed, and I have known a similar amount fail. Even people who did well in class may do sub-par on the MCAT.

Anyway, to digress, if you have taken your pre-reqs already, then you should focus on upper division science classes. If you have not, then you obviously have to take the pre-reqs. Retake all classes that you received a D or F in. Your goal is to get your overall GPA up to at least a 3.0 to avoid being nailed by schools that screen for GPA. An MCAT score of 33+ would be helpful too. Of course, you should take these classes under rigorous conditions. A full-time courseload is a must otherwise you risk being rejected for taking 1-3 classes at a time, despite doing well in them. This happened to my friend who maintained a 4.0 during post-bacc, but took between 1 to 3 classes per quarter.

 

[dana jo]

i am having trouble understanding how to fil out the dmv eye exam form for a client can you give any example

 

[batz321]

thanks for reponding, so - regarding my low gpa, i wasn't just trying to make any excuses - i guess it sounded like i was, and i definitely won't be making any such statements to adcoms - should i even bring up my low gpa anywhere in my app?
my dual citizenship in my app - i meant, will, or should, foreign army service have any place in my app (i mean, those are a few years that i kinda have to explain what i did with) - and do you think it will have a positive or negative effect?
about courseload - are you saying that working while taking classes is not a good idea? and about courses i received bad grades in - some are either math, or prereqs, so i will definitely retake them - what if they bear no relation at all, and were just general distribution reqs in college?
also, is shadowing at such a late age (at that time i will be 26-7) a real possibility? is volunteering or research of any kind a better idea?

thanks a lot

 

[bottles999]

i'll try to make this as short as possible...

i graduated a year ago from a very well known university in the midwest, after a subpar college career. just like everyone else i just didn't really try too hard in college, and graduated with a 2.75 (including 2 D's and 2 F's), with almost no science classes.
i'm a dual citizen, and am now in the israel military for approximately another year and a half (will this have any positive effect on my application?)
i need to know what my steps should be to apply.
like i said, my poor grades are a result of my not trying, not my ability - i'm counting on a very good MCAT score.
can i work? will night school for some of the pre-reqs be as acceptable on my app?
with my gpa - i probably won't be able to get into a postbacc program? how much time should i take to finish my science classes (should i take many more higher level science classes)?
what are my odds if i take the right steps from now?

thank you very much for all your help!

Well there are also other options available to you. IMHO I would consider taking classes, pre-req's and even advanced upper level undergrad classes, under the status of post-bacc. Now this isnt a 'formal' post-bacc for pre-med but you can easily design one yourself. First hit the core biology, organics, inorganic chem, Physics, etc... Then start branching out to Micro, Physiology, histology or other classes that your university might offer. Keep in mind, ensure you do WELL - maintain a 4.0 or near 4.0.

At the same time, I'd wait to take the MCAT till you accomplished the core sciences that you need for it. That way they will be freshest for ya.

The more classes you take the further you distance yourself from your original undergrad. That is generally how you'd want to present it to adcoms in your personal statment and interviews. As two separate expereinces as much as possible, regardless how AMCAS calculates it.

Good Luck!

 

[batz321]

thanks for all of your replies. a few more things - what sort of volunteering/research/extracurriculars should i do?
are recs from college worth anything at all 4-5 years later?
and i know i'm still far from that stage, but assuming i do well on the MCATs and post-bacc work - what schools should i strive for?

 

[QofQuimica]

thanks for all of your replies. a few more things - what sort of volunteering/research/extracurriculars should i do?
are recs from college worth anything at all 4-5 years later?
and i know i'm still far from that stage, but assuming i do well on the MCATs and post-bacc work - what schools should i strive for?

First, 25-26 is not too old to shadow, apply, or start medical school. I'm starting school now at age 31, and there are plenty of people on this board who were way older than I am when they started school. We even have one poster in their early 50s, as I recall. You might enjoy reading this thread about how old we will all be when we start medical school just to get some perspective on how "young" you really are for a non-trad: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=278319

Second, you should take things one step at a time, in a systematic way. Your goal now is to do a lot of damage control and you need to do things well much more than you need to do them quickly. Start by taking the pre-reqs and acing them (or as close to that as you can). Take enough classes to get your GPA above a 3.0 at the very minimum, because a lot of schools seem to use that as a screening cutoff. Then, study for and take the MCAT, and again, try to score as well as you can on it.

As far as shadowing and volunteering are concerned, the time to start doing those things is yesterday. You need to build up an established record of service and interest in the medical field. Don't pick things just because you think it will impress adcoms. You said you're from Israel, so if you want to volunteer for an Israeli charity or something, then that's what you should do. But you do need to get some clinical experience of some type so that you can speak knowledgeably about what it is that physicians do on your essays and at your interviews.

You will probably need new LORs. Most schools seem to want fresh ones (say, from within the past year). One benefit of your post bac is that you'll be in a position to get some new letters, and these profs will be able to attest to the new and improved student that you have become. 🙂

Where to apply: your state schools. Any other schools whose programs sound interesting and whose mission you think you fit based on the MSAR and the school's website.

 

[bottles999]

thanks for all of your replies. a few more things - what sort of volunteering/research/extracurriculars should i do?
are recs from college worth anything at all 4-5 years later?
and i know i'm still far from that stage, but assuming i do well on the MCATs and post-bacc work - what schools should i strive for?

Volunteering and/or shadowing are musts in some form. I chose Hospice to volunteer with, but other options are available. Contact your local medical center/hospital for volunteer opportunities. I found hospice was the most flexible hr wise and was a good fit for my schedule. Research is great, esp if it amounts to a publication(s), but its not requirement for med school only.

As for LoRs, as you go through your post-bacc, ask professors from those classes or research mentors. The ones from 4-5 years ago are very useful in in the case. However, since you've worked for some time, I would consider getting a previous supervisors letter of rec. All schools require at lease three (3) letters, but will accepts up to 5 or 6, so one from a previous supervisor wouldnt hurt.

On one other note, just know that what your considering will take probably 1-2 years of post bacc class work at a min based on what you said about not having the science background and prep for the MCAT. Just realize this isnt going to happen overnite or even next application cycle. IMHO

Again Good luck!

 

[viostorm]

All this advice here has been good, although I strongly disagree with taking the classes under "rigorous" conditions.

Give your self every chance to be successful. If that means only taking two classes at a time do it. Especially at the start.

Its always better to get 4 A's over two semesters the 4 B's over 1 semester.

Right now the biggest thing is getting your GPA up. Give yourself every opportunity to do that.

 

[Nasrudin]

So what your getting here is 2 separate indications that overlap but are nonetheless distinct: 1) Do as well as possible 2) Do well and do so rigorously and with EC's of merit.

This is exactly what i have been struggling to reconcile as well. My situation is similar to yours(minus the israeli military service...i'm with Congolese freedom fighters...😉) I'm trying to balance full-time work, high grades for low gpa damage control, and rigorous pacing that includes E.C.'s. So far i've just been able to get a 4.0 and work full-time while taking 3-4 classes with 2 hard sciences. I think i could be a superfreak and do more but i think alot people on this path forget about doing other things too like keeping their relationships healthy and taking small bits of time out to nuture themselves spiritually. I would take a long term, patient, hollistic approach to this if your serious.
Alot depends on your own unique situation as well--like what's your support network, can you live at home, what are your financial or familial responsibilities etc. If your budget is minimal like mine, then alot of options will pose more difficulty...like attending an smp that costs your firstborn child to attend. I'm pusuing a degree in microbiology...this gives me the chance to prove science study skills over a longer period of time while doing substantial gpa damage control and more notably at a price i can afford. Hope this gives you a sense of the good times ahead Good luck!

P.S. Be aware of the nature of weighted averages that will keep your gpa clustered toward the lower end of applicant pool no matter how many A's you get. If you're like me your efforts will reach an almost unbreakable plateau at around a 3.35 or so. So realistically you should get it there and then be prepared to follow through with some other endeavor...which if i figure out what besides an SMP i'll let you know.

 

[batz321]

thanks everyone for the responses.

nasrudin - you're working fulltime with 3-4 classes? wow. but more importantly, what kind of combination of school and job allows that? (what do you do - and where do you take classes?) and you're right about my gpa, according to my math, my cumulative gpa will probably not rise about 3.1, however, since i only took 2 BCMP classes, alberit 2.69 (of which i'm going to retake 2) i have a good chance at a reasonably high science gpa, so i'm going to have work as hard as i ever had and hope for a high MCAT score. thanks.

i know this probably has been discussed before, but does anyone know how med schools look at an applicant with a low gpa and a high mcat? how much do each factor into their decision?

 

[Nasrudin]

Batz,
I work fri-mon 3-11:30 pm and wed 3-11:30pm. There are several things about my job that make it good for combining with school. First i work in a unionized healthcare setting for a large employee-friendly HMO which means good wages, health benefits, schedule flexibility and extra things like educational leave and vacation pay which i use to prepare for exams and without which i would likely be buried. I choose my courseload only after extensive planning and word-on-the-street research including websites that offer information on different instructors at my school and i also network with other students for old class materials and books etc. In short, i am ruthlessly, practical in my approach to optimizing my chances for the best grades possible. (i never compromise my integrity however, and i never cheat). In terms of scheduling i try to match up difficult courses with easier general education courses, so out of 4 couses only 2 will be hard ones. Sounds like common sense but i've always been suprised at my classmates who take none of these things into account and then complain how they got a Nazi of a lab instructor.
Alot of jobs would be impossible to combine with full-time school so you do what you can with what you've got. But make no mistake the position i'm in was no accident. It took me years to arrange it, with alot of hustle and a little luck it can be accomplished by anybody who is in the right cicumstances. My schedule is actually light compared to some of the people you will read about on these forums. So if you're comparing yourself do so with a balanced state of mind if you can. Like some of the other posters said you probably have ample opportunity in Israel to prove an interest in medicine and humanity, and then when you get back stateside you can focus on school. I'm actually intending to do and inversion of that process--i'm focusing on academics now but when i'm done i'm planning on taking a year or so to do research volunteer take the mcat and apply. Good luck, friend.--Ben.

P.s. With regards to a high science gpa, yeah i'm the same as you, i'll probably end up with around a 3.9 science gpa b/c i never took science in my first attempt at college even though my cum gpa will be low. As to how adcomm's evaluate this anomaly i really don't know...i am curious too.