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Advise is much needed for my future
- Thread starter deend
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I'd make an appointment to see the PD, immediately. It's not quite clear to me why you were terminated:
1. Did you disclose this on your application (assuming it was asked)? If not, then there's the problem -- the details of why the event happened no longer matter. If you lied on your application, you can be terminated.
2. If you did disclose it, then the timeline is confusing. Presumably the program was able to get a license for you (since you had stared a rotation for 3 weeks). Hence, I don't really see why this came up 3 weeks into your rotation. They would usually do a background check prior to hiring you.
If they knew about your conviction (because you disclosed it truthfully on your application), had a chance to do a background check, and then hired you, they actually can't fire you for this. They could have declined to hire you, but once hired they can't change their mind over something they should have known about.
1. Did you disclose this on your application (assuming it was asked)? If not, then there's the problem -- the details of why the event happened no longer matter. If you lied on your application, you can be terminated.
2. If you did disclose it, then the timeline is confusing. Presumably the program was able to get a license for you (since you had stared a rotation for 3 weeks). Hence, I don't really see why this came up 3 weeks into your rotation. They would usually do a background check prior to hiring you.
If they knew about your conviction (because you disclosed it truthfully on your application), had a chance to do a background check, and then hired you, they actually can't fire you for this. They could have declined to hire you, but once hired they can't change their mind over something they should have known about.
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Can you clarify a few things, your original post is a bit hard to understand.
1. So as I understand it you applied and disclosed an arrest. From your second post you imply that they asked for clarification/documentation about this incident after seeing your application. Was you keeping your spot conditional on providing them with this info? Did they ask for it right away and you just hoped they would forget about it?
2. Why are you off cycle? I realize there are many legitimate reasons for this. There are also concerning reasons. Did you have trouble finishing med school/internship?
3. I do wonder if your communication skills played any role in this. Is English your first language? Judging by your first post I'm inclined to think not, either that or you were just very upset and wrote it very quickly. Trying to explain such a situation over the phone would be tricky and it would be easy to get your wires crossed and perhaps seem evasive. From your own post it sounds like you were a little evasive about it. I'm not a Prog director but I can see how it would make one wary.
4. I'm sorry you were in an abusive relationship.
1. So as I understand it you applied and disclosed an arrest. From your second post you imply that they asked for clarification/documentation about this incident after seeing your application. Was you keeping your spot conditional on providing them with this info? Did they ask for it right away and you just hoped they would forget about it?
2. Why are you off cycle? I realize there are many legitimate reasons for this. There are also concerning reasons. Did you have trouble finishing med school/internship?
3. I do wonder if your communication skills played any role in this. Is English your first language? Judging by your first post I'm inclined to think not, either that or you were just very upset and wrote it very quickly. Trying to explain such a situation over the phone would be tricky and it would be easy to get your wires crossed and perhaps seem evasive. From your own post it sounds like you were a little evasive about it. I'm not a Prog director but I can see how it would make one wary.
4. I'm sorry you were in an abusive relationship.
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I have no advice for you, and I am sorry to hear about your terrible situation 
However: Let me point you to information from the Illinois board of medicine in the application of a medical license. I think your confusion / situation arose because the actual application for licensure simply asks for court records (and not a police report specifically), but the instructions say "if you answer yes, you must submit all of the following" including the police report.
Reference:
From: http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/apply/forms/md-ex.pdf
From the Instructions:
"If any of your responses to numbers 1 through 6 are "yes," submit the following documentation:
A certified copy of all court records (other than minor traffic violations)
regarding your conviction of a criminal or driving offense in any county,
state, circuit or federal court, including a copy of the police report(s); if probation given, verification that probation was completed satisfactorily; a
copy of all proceedings regarding the conviction and final disposition of
the charge(s) direct from the court(s).
Submit a statement for each conviction indicating date and place of
conviction, nature of the offense, and if applicable, the date of discharge
from any penalty imposed."
The actual application:
"1. Have you been convicted of any criminal offense in any state or in federal court (other than minor traffic violations)? If yes, attach a
certified copy of the court records regarding your conviction, the nature of the offense and date of discharge, if applicable, as well as
a statement from the probation or parole office.
2. Have you been convicted of a felony?"
I think you have to appeal to the medical board with your situation, since that seems to be the limiting factor. Even if your program reverses its decision and re-hires you, you will NOT be able to work unless you receive a license. Good luck to you
However: Let me point you to information from the Illinois board of medicine in the application of a medical license. I think your confusion / situation arose because the actual application for licensure simply asks for court records (and not a police report specifically), but the instructions say "if you answer yes, you must submit all of the following" including the police report.
Reference:
From: http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/apply/forms/md-ex.pdf
From the Instructions:
"If any of your responses to numbers 1 through 6 are "yes," submit the following documentation:
A certified copy of all court records (other than minor traffic violations)
regarding your conviction of a criminal or driving offense in any county,
state, circuit or federal court, including a copy of the police report(s); if probation given, verification that probation was completed satisfactorily; a
copy of all proceedings regarding the conviction and final disposition of
the charge(s) direct from the court(s).
Submit a statement for each conviction indicating date and place of
conviction, nature of the offense, and if applicable, the date of discharge
from any penalty imposed."
The actual application:
"1. Have you been convicted of any criminal offense in any state or in federal court (other than minor traffic violations)? If yes, attach a
certified copy of the court records regarding your conviction, the nature of the offense and date of discharge, if applicable, as well as
a statement from the probation or parole office.
2. Have you been convicted of a felony?"
I think you have to appeal to the medical board with your situation, since that seems to be the limiting factor. Even if your program reverses its decision and re-hires you, you will NOT be able to work unless you receive a license. Good luck to you
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1. No, they did ask for it right away. Its just that as I wrote above, when i requested for doc I was advised it would take 90-120 days.
Well, I think Anonymouse's post kind of explains why this is a problem. Probably the PD was pretty upset that a) it asked for the documentation on the application and you did not submit it and b) they asked you for it when they got the application, yet 3 weeks into the whole deal you had not even begun to start the process of getting the documentation.
2. It was a pgy2 off cycle postition as there was a sopt available in late Dec. It did complete my med school/Interninship. Unclear why this is a concern....
It is a concern for your performance if you failed a bunch of your med school rotations or internship rotations and had to repeat them, thus bumping you off cycle. They would have known about anything like that already from your application, but maybe that along with your failure to even start to get the things they requested was too much.
3. My english? What part of post is confusing. Perhaps, you can help me express myself eloquently.
Well, I'm not going to do a comprehensive analysis of the post. . but its kinda confusing and evident that probably you are not a native English speaker. Just look at your above sentence-- a native speaker would say "What part of THE post is confusing?" The way you have it I imagine it coming out in a thick Russian accent. Am I right that English is not your first language? Granted there are plenty of primary English speakers who use horrible grammar and spelling but they do it in different ways, and they usually do fine in verbal interactions. If you were also having communication issues that could be a strike against you as well.
Also, let me quote:
"As I proceeded to respond to her, I primarily explained that it involved domestic violence and proceeded to end the conversation by voicing she has a candidate in her office and she will inform the PC that I called"
When you are a resident and are in trouble with the powers that be, I would suggest you never "end the conversation" and tell her what to do. I realize she wasn't the PD but. . .ticking off the PD's secretary or other staff can be much worse than ticking off the actual PD. You should go in with hat in hand and show some humility. Probably too late at this point but important for future interactions.
4. Thanks you for your sympathy.
YW
Well, I think Anonymouse's post kind of explains why this is a problem. Probably the PD was pretty upset that a) it asked for the documentation on the application and you did not submit it and b) they asked you for it when they got the application, yet 3 weeks into the whole deal you had not even begun to start the process of getting the documentation.
2. It was a pgy2 off cycle postition as there was a sopt available in late Dec. It did complete my med school/Interninship. Unclear why this is a concern....
It is a concern for your performance if you failed a bunch of your med school rotations or internship rotations and had to repeat them, thus bumping you off cycle. They would have known about anything like that already from your application, but maybe that along with your failure to even start to get the things they requested was too much.
3. My english? What part of post is confusing. Perhaps, you can help me express myself eloquently.
Well, I'm not going to do a comprehensive analysis of the post. . but its kinda confusing and evident that probably you are not a native English speaker. Just look at your above sentence-- a native speaker would say "What part of THE post is confusing?" The way you have it I imagine it coming out in a thick Russian accent. Am I right that English is not your first language? Granted there are plenty of primary English speakers who use horrible grammar and spelling but they do it in different ways, and they usually do fine in verbal interactions. If you were also having communication issues that could be a strike against you as well.
Also, let me quote:
"As I proceeded to respond to her, I primarily explained that it involved domestic violence and proceeded to end the conversation by voicing she has a candidate in her office and she will inform the PC that I called"
When you are a resident and are in trouble with the powers that be, I would suggest you never "end the conversation" and tell her what to do. I realize she wasn't the PD but. . .ticking off the PD's secretary or other staff can be much worse than ticking off the actual PD. You should go in with hat in hand and show some humility. Probably too late at this point but important for future interactions.
4. Thanks you for your sympathy.
YW
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I think the OP was saying the secretary ended the conversation not the other way around. Just another example of communication confusion from the OP.
Really not trying to be insulting, but nearly everything you've written has been extremely confusing.
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Well that definitely would make more sense.
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I too had quite a bit of difficulty making it through the original post. Regardless, good luck.
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The language in the original post was a thesaurus-ridden bundle of confusion.
It sounds to me like she disclosed the arrest but when asked for clarification she made it out to be a "domestic violence" situation, instead of simply discussing the shoplifting and credit fraud. When the PC dug into the records a little more deeply and realized the truth of the matter, that was enough. In short, she tried to whitewash and give a psychological excuse for her crimes. Which works very well if you're called Raskolnikov, I suppose, but residency programs like people to own up a bit better to their guilt.
She could be off-cycle due to visa reasons, too.... but if she has arrest records in the US dating from the age of 15, it's unlikely that she needs a visa to be here.
It sounds to me like she disclosed the arrest but when asked for clarification she made it out to be a "domestic violence" situation, instead of simply discussing the shoplifting and credit fraud. When the PC dug into the records a little more deeply and realized the truth of the matter, that was enough. In short, she tried to whitewash and give a psychological excuse for her crimes. Which works very well if you're called Raskolnikov, I suppose, but residency programs like people to own up a bit better to their guilt.
She could be off-cycle due to visa reasons, too.... but if she has arrest records in the US dating from the age of 15, it's unlikely that she needs a visa to be here.
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Yeah I actually wondered if it had been fed through babelfish or some other online translation thing.
[/QUOTE]She could be off-cycle due to visa reasons, too.... but if she has arrest records in the US dating from the age of 15, it's unlikely that she needs a visa to be here.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there are lots of legitimate reasons, she says she has kids so pregnancy somewhere along the way could have pushed her off cycle, or an illness etc etc etc.
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