Advisors = worthless

[MedicineMike]

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Do advisors give any of yall non-trads a hard time for being non-degree seeking, pre-med, etc?? I went in to speak with my advisor about waiving a calculus requirement and she gave me the whole shpeel about how med school is very hard to get into and the whole "are you sure you want to do this??" thing. I wanted to throw a chair at her because she was being so stupid. She told me I should go talk to one of the chemistry professors because his wife is a physician and he will tell me "straight up" if I can do this or not. I could'nt believe my ears.

This all started by her saying that she doesnt want me to withdraw from CHEM II because of my lack of calculus. Then she told me a story about a "girl" that had a 4.0 through school with 1 W. blah blah blah, she got accepted into every med-school but everyone questioned her about her one W in every interview. Oh, and she said I have to have a 3.7-3.8 to get in. These advisors are the most worthless, discouraging people I have ever met. I had to bite my lip knowing my best friend just got in with a 3.0gpa and 27 mcat!

Sorry for the venting, but come on. Do they just hand out advisement jobs to anyone??

Let your haters be your motivators!!😀 she only fueled my fire, so i guess it was good haha.
MC

 

[akinetopsia]

I had to get advised at my orientation after I re-applied to my undergrad institution as a second degree-seeker. There were different tables for the different majors, and I picked biology since for the BS they require most of the prereqs, and when it was my turn to get advised, I handed her my transcripts to look at, and after a minute she just pulled out a new sheet with all the requirements for a first degree BS in Biology.

I told her I already had a BA, and per the university's rules I just need 30 hours beyond my first bachelor's for a second degree, which are predominantly bio classes. She goes, "Oh..." and continues to go over the sheet about general ed classes I don't need for a second degree, like the non-western requirement, etc. Finally it sinks in, and she realizes what I'm saying and I tell her I'm working on a second degree to take classes required for medical school.

I don't know if I will finish the second degree but it has been entertaining whenever I go to get advised. I'm not required to anymore, at my school they don't put a hold on your account aside from the first semester you are trying to register for classes. I know what I need to take, the real question is if I will finish this degree or not. To finish it, I think I have to take ecology and genetics outside of what I'm registered for now.

 

[MedicineMike]

I was thinking about just declaring a major of biology so they will get off my back about being a "non-degree seeking" student. However, I probably would not finish the degree due to all of the excess courses (i.e. ecology, etc) which I do not need and don't want to take. Does it look bad to start a degree and not finish it?

I feel if you mention you want to attend medical school the advisor immediately shuts off their brain and stops listening to anything you say. Which is the inverse of what should happen...

 

[WaterBird]

Part of the job of the advisors is to talk people out of it who aren't going to make it - this help improve the school's rates of getting people accepted. So try not to take it personally although I'm sure what she says stings!

I'm sure you know this, but just to reinforce, what she said is total BS. I had one W, which I was totally ready to explain but I did not get asked about it ONCE (at more than ten interviews).

Anyway, see if there is another advisor at your school who you can talk, as a different advisor may respond to you differently. Also, be persistent, respectful and firm, and do some of your own research so they see they have to bring their A game too. Think of it like dealing with the people behind the desk at the airport - you want to be firm and polite, because no one gets on a flight by screaming in their faces or by slinking away.

Good luck! Many folks are still behind the times about the non-trad thing, but it is more and more common.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

sorry to hear that. the advisor at my alma mater is very encouraging and very insightful, so i'm hesitant to throw them all under the bus. it's sad situation, perhaps you can notify the director or some other higher up about your dissatisfaction.

 

[murfettie]

mine is not awesome.
kinda discouraging too. blah..

 

[Nasrudin]

Well. If you think about it. Everyone who tries and succeeds or fails move in separate directions. Both away from the site of pre-med trials.

So the gig goes to the nearest twit at any school to the person who wants the job. The motivation to learn the range of subtleties it would require to advise people properly would be exceptional.

So that's what we get. Especially those of at Joe Sixpack University. Twits. Blithering inanely.

We're on our own out here. Better at least to know it and move on.

 

[QofQuimica]

Sorry for the venting, but come on. Do they just hand out advisement jobs to anyone??

I've often said that if most of these people had any idea about what it takes to get into med school, they'd be doctors instead of premed advisors. 🙂

 

[Scottish Chap]

Do advisors give any of yall non-trads a hard time for being non-degree seeking, pre-med, etc?? I went in to speak with my advisor about waiving a calculus requirement and she gave me the whole shpeel about how med school is very hard to get into and the whole "are you sure you want to do this??" thing. I wanted to throw a chair at her because she was being so stupid. She told me I should go talk to one of the chemistry professors because his wife is a physician and he will tell me "straight up" if I can do this or not. I could'nt believe my ears.

This all started by her saying that she doesnt want me to withdraw from CHEM II because of my lack of calculus. Then she told me a story about a "girl" that had a 4.0 through school with 1 W. blah blah blah, she got accepted into every med-school but everyone questioned her about her one W in every interview. Oh, and she said I have to have a 3.7-3.8 to get in. These advisors are the most worthless, discouraging people I have ever met. I had to bite my lip knowing my best friend just got in with a 3.0gpa and 27 mcat!

Sorry for the venting, but come on. Do they just hand out advisement jobs to anyone??

Let your haters be your motivators!!😀 she only fueled my fire, so i guess it was good haha.
MC

What a pain. As a non-trad, thinking of applying in 2004, I was missing physics I and II. The only place running it at a time I could make was a local CC. The "advisor" wouldn't let me enroll because my foreign undergraduate transcript did not state Math 101/102. When I explained my high school overseas is quite different from a generic U.S. high school, I was told I would have to meet the Chair of the Physics Department to get "special permission" to enroll. I was discouraged but not upset. I made my appointment with the Chair. He asked what my highest degree was. After he heard "PhD", he grabbed the form, signed it, offered an apology on behalf of the campus, and muttered some harsh words about the advisors on campus. 🙂 It turned out to be a rigorous little course taught by a PhD from Johns Hopkins.

It was just a hurdle to cross and it was someone who didn't know any better. As a first year resident at a great program now I can look back and smile. Don't waste your energy burning with anger. The world won't change just because you're trying to move up in it.

 

[MedicineMike]

What a pain. As a non-trad, thinking of applying in 2004, I was missing physics I and II. The only place running it at a time I could make was a local CC. The "advisor" wouldn't let me enroll because my foreign undergraduate transcript did not state Math 101/102. When I explained my high school overseas is quite different from a generic U.S. high school, I was told I would have to meet the Chair of the Physics Department to get "special permission" to enroll. I was discouraged but not upset. I made my appointment with the Chair. He asked what my highest degree was. After he heard "PhD", he grabbed the form, signed it, offered an apology on behalf of the campus, and muttered some harsh words about the advisors on campus. 🙂 It turned out to be a rigorous little course taught by a PhD from Johns Hopkins.

It was just a hurdle to cross and it was someone who didn't know any better. As a first year resident at a great program now I can look back and smile. Don't waste your energy burning with anger. The world won't change just because you're trying to move up in it.

Thanks a lot for the advice...and I realllllly like that last sentence!

 

[southerngrl]

Do advisors give any of yall non-trads a hard time for being non-degree seeking, pre-med, etc?? I went in to speak with my advisor about waiving a calculus requirement and she gave me the whole shpeel about how med school is very hard to get into and the whole "are you sure you want to do this??" thing. I wanted to throw a chair at her because she was being so stupid. She told me I should go talk to one of the chemistry professors because his wife is a physician and he will tell me "straight up" if I can do this or not. I could'nt believe my ears.

This all started by her saying that she doesnt want me to withdraw from CHEM II because of my lack of calculus. Then she told me a story about a "girl" that had a 4.0 through school with 1 W. blah blah blah, she got accepted into every med-school but everyone questioned her about her one W in every interview. Oh, and she said I have to have a 3.7-3.8 to get in. These advisors are the most worthless, discouraging people I have ever met. I had to bite my lip knowing my best friend just got in with a 3.0gpa and 27 mcat!

Sorry for the venting, but come on. Do they just hand out advisement jobs to anyone??

Let your haters be your motivators!!😀 she only fueled my fire, so i guess it was good haha.
MC

Oh yep pretty worthless....my pre-med advisor told me that I needed calculus although none of the med schools I will apply for require it then proceeded to tell me that a lot of calculus is on the MCAT...??!!!

 

[MissIrish]

...

 

[MissIntrigued]

Some advisors are helpful, but honestly, the majority I have seen are clueless when it comes, particularly, to non=trad applicants.

My undergrad advisor, when i called her, said because i had been out of that school for five years already, she couldn't write my letter.

So, i was forced to go to the advisor at one of the school's i was taking post-bacc classes at. I "declared" a major because it was easier to register when you are listed as a 'matriculated' student. So be it.

Anyway, so, I have worked full time since graduating undergrad, in a stressful job, IN a hospital, with my OWN patients, and my advisor, upon first meeting me, asks me if I have done any volunteering in a hospital. I say, well no, but I work in one and have my own caseload of patients. Surely that must count mroe than spending 4 hours a week doing paperwork in a patient family waiting room or ER? Apparently not. She looks at me and says "if you were serious about medical school you would quit working and take on a full courseload instead of one class at a time."

I was aghast. Number one, I already have a degree. number two, if she wants to pay my RENT and BILLS, and give me health insurance, I will gladly quit my job and only focus on school. Third, my job pays for only one class per semester, so even if I could AFFORD paying for more than one class at once, which I CANNOT, I still wouldn't be able to fit it into my schedule as all the evening classes in sciences are limited in size and tend to overlap days. I physically could not take more than one science class at once for my post bacc. She didn't want to listen to a word I said.

Then comes the arugments on LOR's that this idiot can't seem to get over!

I have TWO LOR's from undergraduate professors who I had both as instructors AND did research with when I was an undergrad. One is social psychology, the other is a nuerocience professor. I also got a LOR from one of my Physics professors. I also have stellar, and I mean amazing, LOR's from both the physician I worked with at the hospital, as well as my manager at the hospital, AND a LOR from a woman that works as a manager in one of the places I volunteer sometimes. That's, count 'em, at least SIX fantastic LOR's with more written in them than most people will get simply by showing a physician a couple hours here and there.

Want to know what she tells me? That I should be having a LOR from a humanities professor. That I should be having a LOR from a professor at the school where she is working at (I took Bio and Physics over summers at a different post-bacc college. Mind you, they are all part of the same larger City University of NY system, it just fit better in my schedule to do it this way). I tried telling her I could not force a proff in this school to write me a letter. I told her that I could not even remembver the names of any humanitites professors since it was at least 6 years since I 'd had a class with any of them, and that many of them left my undergrad already anyway, so if i can't even recall their names, how can I ask them for a LOR? If I don't remember who the hell they are, they certainly won't remember me. I ask her, why is it that my multitutde of volunteer and work LOR's can't suffice for one humanities professor letter?

The problem with many of these "advisors" is that they have a sort of checklist for the traditional application, and they do not know how to think outside of this checklist. As a non trad, my application will be a little different than a 20 year old still in college, and she can't understand that. And she is driving me effing insane.

Just thought I'd share. Righto.

 

[n3xa]

Good grief I'm glad the only advisors I've come across have plenty of experience getting post-bacs into med school.

 

[netminder]

I had to bite my lip knowing my best friend just got in with a 3.0gpa and 27 mcat!

MC

Pretty cool. Where was this friend accepted, can I ask?

Good luck with the Quest, Mike. You will be an anesthesiologist and you will laugh at these people.

 

[MedicineMike]

Pretty cool. Where was this friend accepted, can I ask?

Good luck with the Quest, Mike. You will be an anesthesiologist and you will laugh at these people.

Maybe I will write a letter when I get into med school and tell them "thanks" for their (lack of) help and encouragement.

My friend got into LECOM - Bradenton, FL. He also sent his application in in FEBRUARY!! He got his acceptance about 4 weeks before school started this year. It is definitely not the way to go about doing things but hey, it seemed to work for him! haha

 

[JAD29]

Oh yes. Mine were completely worthless and hmmmm...............stupid.

When I was in undergrad my advisor insisted that biology, chemistry and physicis majors were pretty much the only people getting into med school. The first thing he asked me was if my mom or dad were doctors. And then he started telling me that I have no clue about how hard it was going to be and what it is like being a doctor. Well, the reason why I wanted to go into medicine was because I was severly injury a few years earlier (spinal cord injury) and ended up in the hospital and knew what it was like to be a patient. I also spent my entire time in high school volunteering at the hospital where I was a patient. I was hospitalized for nearly eigth months. For some reason, my advisor thought my experience was not good enough to even consider applying. He put a schedule together for me, which was absolutely ridiculous for a clueless kid that was the first to go to college in his family. He insisted that I take all of these ridiculous upper level science courses all at once in order to be competitive. I did not do so well. The advisor, professors and those idiot premed committee people were completely worthless. At this school you had to be a SCIENCE major to got to med school. Instead of being helpful, everyone was cocky, condescending and stupid. Thier purpose was to "weed people out".

I ended up going school for Respiratory therapy, & been practicing for 12 years. I also went grad school and got my MPH and currently work for the National Cancer Institute. I still work as an RT on weekends to keep up my clinical skills.

I am considering applying to med school at age 36. I did not bother w/ pre-med advisors or talking to any committees. Rather, I had the opportunity to speak w/ the director of admissions at the local medical college. I simply told her "here is my situation, this is what I want to do b/c........, and what do I need to do to get in."

I found out that many meds school like non-trad students b/c they are actually serious, and know why they want to go into medicine. I was also told that C+ in o chem or B- in physicis 19 years ago means absolutely NOTHING. They are interested in seeing what you are capable of doing now and what you have accopmplished as you matured. If you did take all the pre-reqs in the past, like myself, take some upper level science classes, do well on the MCAT, show them you are serious about studying medicine and there is a very good chance you will get in as a non-traditional student.

Again, if you can, try to talk to someone directly at a med school.

 

[MSmentor018]

advisors....lol....it'd be nice if they actually knew something about medical school besides how to give up the dream and become an advisor

 

[SweetnessFollow]

School advisors were useless. I paid an advisor as well, which was a mixed bag a well, but that is a story for another time.

Honestly though, I think there is a reason that they are hard with the non-trads. I'm not talking about the fact that they are not knowledgeable, but that they seem to be harsher on non-trads. A friend of mine, who made a career change, dropped out after first year. I had many conversations with her over the summer b/c I really thought about dropping out too. She applied twice, luckily did not have to move her family when she finally got accepted, but did have to sacrifice a lot this past year as a first year. She decided that it wasn't worth the toll on her family life. Good, bad, right or wrong, I don't know. I am not in her shoes, so I shouldn't be judging her. But sadly, I think people like her make it harder for non-trads. They leave a sour taste in the mouth of admissios offices(and advisors) b/c that is a space they just lost -- and probably would not have if they had let a 21 year old kid in.

I considered both the impact this has on a) Me and b) non-trads when I decided to come back. Non-trads, are looked upon differently. I think there are a group of non-trads who are brilliant(like Q🙂 and then there are others, like me! I was not the smartest kid who came into my class, but I am in the upper end of my class. I think because it means a lot for me to be here - It isn't about comparing myself to others. It is about being who I think I should be. So in the end, I proved most of my advisors wrong - and the interviewers who thought that non-trads will struggle.

Sorry if this was long. HTH.

 

[QofQuimica]

Honestly though, I think there is a reason that they are hard with the non-trads. I'm not talking about the fact that they are not knowledgeable, but that they seem to be harsher on non-trads. A friend of mine, who made a career change, dropped out after first year. I had many conversations with her over the summer b/c I really thought about dropping out too. She applied twice, luckily did not have to move her family when she finally got accepted, but did have to sacrifice a lot this past year as a first year. She decided that it wasn't worth the toll on her family life. Good, bad, right or wrong, I don't know. I am not in her shoes, so I shouldn't be judging her. But sadly, I think people like her make it harder for non-trads. They leave a sour taste in the mouth of admissios offices(and advisors) b/c that is a space they just lost -- and probably would not have if they had let a 21 year old kid in.

I considered both the impact this has on a) Me and b) non-trads when I decided to come back. Non-trads, are looked upon differently. I think there are a group of non-trads who are brilliant(like Q🙂 and then there are others, like me! I was not the smartest kid who came into my class, but I am in the upper end of my class. I think because it means a lot for me to be here - It isn't about comparing myself to others. It is about being who I think I should be. So in the end, I proved most of my advisors wrong - and the interviewers who thought that non-trads will struggle.

People of all ages drop out for various different reasons. The half dozen or so people I personally know who have dropped out or flunked out were all trads. But that's not surprising, because the vast majority of med students are trads, especially if you use age 30 as the cutoff for classifying students as nontrads (which my school does). In any case, I'm skeptical that a nontrad dropping out here or there would really affect the outlook of premed advisors. Probably most advisors just don't have enough experience to understand that nontrads may have different advising needs than trads. Some advisors may disagree with the notion of nontrads going to med school at all. And some advisors are so inherently out of touch with the world around them that they would probably fail the MMSE if someone ever administered it to them.