AEGD/GPR question
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IMHO, they are both a waste of time if you don't want to do any specialty. They are also useful if you want to go to a state that has it's own boards (CA or FL) and you want to be able to work while you pass the boards. My brother did that. Graduated from NYU, then did a residency in SF. Now he just opened his own practice.
I was hoping to write the western boards, so I was thinking I could do the same thing your brother did. That is if I can stay in the States to practice....knock on wood.
You really think they are a waste of time? I was told that they ease the transition from school to the real world and work wonders on your speed. Could you explain why you dont think they are useful? Thanks
You really think they are a waste of time? I was told that they ease the transition from school to the real world and work wonders on your speed. Could you explain why you dont think they are useful? Thanks
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You don't have to do your GPR or AEGD in a NERB state if you only took the NERBs. You could do a GPR in Texas if you graduated from school in NJ and didn't take the WREB, only took the NERB. Take the WREB when you get to Texas.
I think it's upto each person if a GPR/AEGD is a waste of time or a very good idea. It depends on what you are looking for. If you need to make a lot of money as soon as you get out, don't do it b/c you won't get paid more than $50,000 as a resident (you'll probably be paid less than that). I realize that thisisit is a practicing dentist and probably knows more about all this that I do, but here's my take on it. My classmate UBTom & I are both graduating in a few months. UBTom is going straight to practice; he's got some great mentors in dentistry ready to help him transition from school to practice in the downstate NY area. Me, I've got no such willing mentors and I don't know any dentists outside the Buffalo area. I don't plan on practicing in Buffalo and I would also like to go to the NYC area. In order for me to practice there, I need to build some connections first. Doing a GPR downstate will help me transition into the dental market there. I don't need tons of money next year, I get to defer my loans for another year, I get to chill out in a hospital, meet & hang out with new people, and learn a few things; there are still experienced dentists around to mentor me. I guess it's like a 5th year of dental school, but I don't have a problem with that.
If you want to do implants, there are some residencies out there where you will place & restore 75+ implants in 1 year. If you want to become proficient in bony extractions, crown lengthening surgeries, molar endos, there are residencies that will let you do that too. If extensive crown & bridge is your thing, you'll find that too. Want to learn more pedo & ortho? You'll find those too. You might not find all of these experiences bundled into 1 residency, so you have to decide what you want to learn more about and do some research before you apply. If you have a patient mentor willing to walk you through all this, skip the GPR if you want. Otherwise, it won't hurt you.
I think it's upto each person if a GPR/AEGD is a waste of time or a very good idea. It depends on what you are looking for. If you need to make a lot of money as soon as you get out, don't do it b/c you won't get paid more than $50,000 as a resident (you'll probably be paid less than that). I realize that thisisit is a practicing dentist and probably knows more about all this that I do, but here's my take on it. My classmate UBTom & I are both graduating in a few months. UBTom is going straight to practice; he's got some great mentors in dentistry ready to help him transition from school to practice in the downstate NY area. Me, I've got no such willing mentors and I don't know any dentists outside the Buffalo area. I don't plan on practicing in Buffalo and I would also like to go to the NYC area. In order for me to practice there, I need to build some connections first. Doing a GPR downstate will help me transition into the dental market there. I don't need tons of money next year, I get to defer my loans for another year, I get to chill out in a hospital, meet & hang out with new people, and learn a few things; there are still experienced dentists around to mentor me. I guess it's like a 5th year of dental school, but I don't have a problem with that.
If you want to do implants, there are some residencies out there where you will place & restore 75+ implants in 1 year. If you want to become proficient in bony extractions, crown lengthening surgeries, molar endos, there are residencies that will let you do that too. If extensive crown & bridge is your thing, you'll find that too. Want to learn more pedo & ortho? You'll find those too. You might not find all of these experiences bundled into 1 residency, so you have to decide what you want to learn more about and do some research before you apply. If you have a patient mentor willing to walk you through all this, skip the GPR if you want. Otherwise, it won't hurt you.
I think you should just get out in the real world as soon as possible. What is this deal with mentors? Why do you need a mentor? You need a philosophy in life and in practice. You don't have a philosophy because you don't have the experience yet. Get out there and form your own philosophy. I'll be your mentor.
If by a mentor you mean get help when you run into trouble, thats a different story. You can get an associate job and use the senior dentist as your "mentor" . Also, I would get a dental assisting job on the weekends while in school to see how an office is run. There are always jobs available for assistants. But please do not delay the hard process of transitioning from school to the real world by going through a GPR. get out there and start paying back your loans. This is only my opinion, you should see what kind of personality you have and customize your plan. I finished all my clinical requirements for graduation 5 months early. Not because I'm some kind of a guru. No not at all. I just have a bad case of AAA personality with a touch of OCD. No Joke!
If by a mentor you mean get help when you run into trouble, thats a different story. You can get an associate job and use the senior dentist as your "mentor" . Also, I would get a dental assisting job on the weekends while in school to see how an office is run. There are always jobs available for assistants. But please do not delay the hard process of transitioning from school to the real world by going through a GPR. get out there and start paying back your loans. This is only my opinion, you should see what kind of personality you have and customize your plan. I finished all my clinical requirements for graduation 5 months early. Not because I'm some kind of a guru. No not at all. I just have a bad case of AAA personality with a touch of OCD. No Joke!
I'll strongly differ with my opinion on this one. I'm a huge fan of a GPR/AEGD. Simply put, the experience you can gain in a "controlled" environment is invaluable, or atleast it was for me. In dental school, essentially all of your patients are "screened"before you get to see them. Even though as a dental student you get some challenging, extensive, multi-disciplinbe cases, the real toughies goto the residents in the school, or even in some cases the research and faculty side. That doesn't happen in private practice, they're yours(atleast if the patient likes and trusts you after meeting with them)
Dental school, and frankly it doesn't matter which one you graduate from, will give you a solid platform from where to start. However, you've basically been trained with one school of thought, and hey, you've done maybe 100 restorations and 25 to 40 crowns, a bridge or two, 10 or so sets of dentures, 50 or so extractions and seen a half or dozen or so "behavior management" kids. You've got the basic skills, but relatively speaking, your very green, and now your patients aren't the stereotypical welfare based population that most dental schools have(mainly because the dental schools are often the only acces to care they have in the area). Your pateints now have the cash to pay full fee, and often have the demands and expectations to match.
I can honestly say that in my residency(1st alone and I won't even get into the 2nd year I did now)Not only did I see new and different views of techniques and procedures, but I basically increased the number of procedures I had done by 10 fold, my speed increased immensely(although this would have happened in private practice too), and the most important thing I feel is that I learned where my "comfort zone" is with respect to patient management and procedures. I learned what teeth I feel comfortable doing endo on myself vs. referring, I learned what teeth I'll extract and what goes to the surgeon, I leraned what perio surgeries I keep in the office and which ones goto the periodontists. And in all these disciplines I got in over my head, and was able to just walk down the hall and get an attending, or even talk the case over with another resident and the instant help/feedback I needed then was there.
There is a strong reason why an number of states are considering a PGY1 clause INSTEAD of a regional board exam for licensure, beacuse in general you'll get alot more out of your education(and you'll always be learning throughout your career, after all thats why we "practice" dentistry). And while I'll admit that I definately would have made more $$ in private practice had I not done a residency, I more than feel that I've already made up that difference(and alot more) with the higher level that I was functioning at, and the bigger cases that I was tackling right from the start. What you'll see when you hit private practice and your treatment planning a big case, is that many times that treatment plan is not only some current and immediate production, but also years of future production. Very few patients when they first meet you and you tell then that they need 3 endos and 7 crowns will jump and start everything now. Often the scenario goes with them wanting to do "just a filling or two now" to test the waters so to speak, and then if they feel comfortable with you, thats when they'll start in with the bigger stuff. If you can present a confident, humble chairside manner, and have a very good explanation of disease processes that your average adult can understand, you'll do fine. Just get as much experience as possible as soon as possible.
DrJeff
Thanks for that info. I'm still kidda confuse the difference between GPR and AEGD. Both have same kind of training in the same dental setting ?
Thanks for that info. I'm still kidda confuse the difference between GPR and AEGD. Both have same kind of training in the same dental setting ?
The "basic" difference between the 2 is in their locations.
The rule of thumb is that GPR's (General Practice Residencies) are based in hospitals that have no directly affliated dental schools. Whereas AEGD's(Advanced Education is General Dentistry residencies) are typically directly affliated and based at a dental school.
Also, GPR's tend to have a bit more exposure to the medical side of dentistry and tend to have a little more demanding call schedule than an AEGD(this is typically because you don't have any other types of dental residents there to treat the dental needs in that building). Correspondingly so, GPR's will almost always have a higher yearly salary than an AEGD(often about twice as much).
While both types of residencies will expose to all aspects of dentistry, you'll typically get to treat more "extreme" case in a GPR than and AEGD, simply because there aren't other specialty residents around. I.E. the challenging 3rd molar extraction cases will be done by you in a GPR whereas in an AEGD, the oral surgery residents may do most of them, and the same goes for endo and perio cases as well.
Often what it comes down to when deciding between the 2, is what your gut instinct tells you after seeing the different programs. I interviewed at both types, and new that the GPR was what I wanted, but then again, I tend to be an overall adrenaline junky!😀
The rule of thumb is that GPR's (General Practice Residencies) are based in hospitals that have no directly affliated dental schools. Whereas AEGD's(Advanced Education is General Dentistry residencies) are typically directly affliated and based at a dental school.
Also, GPR's tend to have a bit more exposure to the medical side of dentistry and tend to have a little more demanding call schedule than an AEGD(this is typically because you don't have any other types of dental residents there to treat the dental needs in that building). Correspondingly so, GPR's will almost always have a higher yearly salary than an AEGD(often about twice as much).
While both types of residencies will expose to all aspects of dentistry, you'll typically get to treat more "extreme" case in a GPR than and AEGD, simply because there aren't other specialty residents around. I.E. the challenging 3rd molar extraction cases will be done by you in a GPR whereas in an AEGD, the oral surgery residents may do most of them, and the same goes for endo and perio cases as well.
Often what it comes down to when deciding between the 2, is what your gut instinct tells you after seeing the different programs. I interviewed at both types, and new that the GPR was what I wanted, but then again, I tend to be an overall adrenaline junky!😀
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There must be a lot of factors that one would have to consider in deciding whether or not to do a GPR/AEGD. Competitve standing, location preferences, economic inputs etc. One factor, which could be difficult to evaluate, might be the degree and style of clinical training that one gets in their predoctoral years.
Most dental schools used to be brutal. Students were almost second class citizens. For example, it was not uncommon for an unfortunate D1 to be quickly sized up as a "hopeless project" by an influential faculty member which would result in the rapid departure of said targeted student. However, there was an upside to those "boot camp" style schools. They produced highly skilled clinicians in three years.
Today, except for UOP, dental school is a four year program. Much more medical science must be learned by students than those of yesteryear but maybe that is accomplished at the expense of their opportunity to gain optimum perfection in clinical skills. So, perhaps a GPR/AEGD is a good thing for newly minted DDS/DMDs. Especially if one graduates from a school which places greater emphasis on the medical sciences vs clinical skills.
Most dental schools used to be brutal. Students were almost second class citizens. For example, it was not uncommon for an unfortunate D1 to be quickly sized up as a "hopeless project" by an influential faculty member which would result in the rapid departure of said targeted student. However, there was an upside to those "boot camp" style schools. They produced highly skilled clinicians in three years.
Today, except for UOP, dental school is a four year program. Much more medical science must be learned by students than those of yesteryear but maybe that is accomplished at the expense of their opportunity to gain optimum perfection in clinical skills. So, perhaps a GPR/AEGD is a good thing for newly minted DDS/DMDs. Especially if one graduates from a school which places greater emphasis on the medical sciences vs clinical skills.
The good thing about dentistry is that everyone is different. What's good for one may not be good for others. I was ready to leave the controlled environment. One more day and I would have suffocated. AAA personality doe not bode well with a controlled environment. But I did work at a public aid clinic right out of school for 6 months with 2 assistants and 3 chairs for 10 hours a day and got paid next to nothing. my brother tells me that was my GPR.
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This is exactly my definition of mentor. I don't need someone telling me what my philosophy should be; I plan to come up with my own. I don't want to enter the "real world." I've never been there and I'm not in any hurry to go. For me, a year in a GPR where I get a paycheck and live away from my hometown is a lot of real world for me to handle my first year out and is all I need to be happy next year. I don't want to be in an associateship right away with a senior dentist breathing down my back b/c I'm not producing enough. I don't know anyone who will take me as an associate and help me transition anyways, that's why I'm doing the GPR to meet practitioners in a new area.
Like you said, everyone's personality is different and mine is suited for another year in a controlled environment. No matter what I end up doing in my GPR next year, it can't be worse than this torture disguised as the senior year of dental school. I'm looking forward to the GPR, the only negative I see so far is that I won't have my own assistant so I'll still be juggling the suction, mirror, and handpiece trying to do operative.
Griffin04, next year when your busting your rear end running around cleaning your room and trying to do 4 hands worth of work with 2, remember it. Then in a few years, when you're the partner/owner of your practice and you're running a few minutes late due to trying to juggle a few patients and also having taken the time to talk to that patient and answer their questions, help your assistant clean up a room to speed things along😱 You'll be amazed at how just a simple jesture like that from time to time will help create an incredibly loyal staff, and then wait and see and listen to the praises your assistant will give to you when the patient asks them while your out of the operatory doing a hygiene check. That builds the word of mouth advertising that your looking for.
Wisdoms from a real dentist. .....
Griffin04, point well taken. I guess you feel that you are not ready. I believe you are ready and I don't even know you, but you know yourself better. My point is to take some risks. There is never a perfect situation in a senior dentist/associate equation. I hated working for most of them and tolerated some. I can truly say that I never felt completely comfortable working for another dentist. Personalities clash, the office manger on power trip wanting you to know it, you have no control over what goes in or out of the office, etc. It's just difficult. Having said that, you should know that what you have learned so far has been the clinical aspect ONLY.
Being a successful dentist is a lot more than just being a good clinician. You have to be a good businessman also. A dental office is run like a small hospital with all the headaches and no management team to help you. You are the CEO, CFO, director, practitioner, etc. Your training in dental school has been sufficient to get you by. I know you feel nervous, we all did. You will survive. What you should look for is a good base for the business aspect of our profession. Should you accept PPOs? What software should I use for my practice? How many employees? How do I pay taxes? How do I calculate taxes? What requirements does my state have to open up a practice? What liability insurance do I get? How do I save for the future? Do I need an accountant? There are literally a million questions that has not been answered in dental school. You can always do an associateship after the GPR. IMHO, a dental student should get started on these topics asap. A year of GPR is not too much of a delay. It's just that I don't look at it as transition. It's just the 5th year of dental school. Good luck. I had many friends who did a GPR and are very successful.
Being a successful dentist is a lot more than just being a good clinician. You have to be a good businessman also. A dental office is run like a small hospital with all the headaches and no management team to help you. You are the CEO, CFO, director, practitioner, etc. Your training in dental school has been sufficient to get you by. I know you feel nervous, we all did. You will survive. What you should look for is a good base for the business aspect of our profession. Should you accept PPOs? What software should I use for my practice? How many employees? How do I pay taxes? How do I calculate taxes? What requirements does my state have to open up a practice? What liability insurance do I get? How do I save for the future? Do I need an accountant? There are literally a million questions that has not been answered in dental school. You can always do an associateship after the GPR. IMHO, a dental student should get started on these topics asap. A year of GPR is not too much of a delay. It's just that I don't look at it as transition. It's just the 5th year of dental school. Good luck. I had many friends who did a GPR and are very successful.
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Thanks for the advice, thisisit. Clinically, you're right. I proabably could jump in and do basic dentistry if I had to, I feel confident about that. I did consider looking for a job, but I didn't think I'll find something that suites me with the limited amount of time till graduation. I also don't have the resources to look for a job in a different part of the country. But I don't see any reason to rush right now (I'm also a bit younger than most of my classmates.) I'm just using the GPR for the reasons I mentioned and also for another reason you mentioned - as a campout to apply to specialty. Like you said, a dental student should get aheaad and try to learn the business aspects, but I haven't done any of it. Now I have a year to learn and read about the business side of dentistry, since I won't have to be studying anymore for those science classes. Taxes? Insurance? Savings? None of those words currently exist in my vocab. However, I do plan on getting myself into some dental offices while at my GPR to see how the real world functions and be ready to jump in when it's my turn to be an associate.
here is an idea: Work on saturdays or some nights at some dental office part time. You'll love it. Where do you live?
ah Ny. NYC?
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NY ------> Buffalo, NY
I'm hoping to match into an of the residencies I applied to in NYC. All the places where I interviewed said moonlighting isn't officially allowed, only one place actually enforced it b/c of union labor laws preventing them from working more than 40 hrs/week. Whichever program I end up at, I plan to be in some offices on weekends/evenings to see how dentistry runs in the NYC area and what kind of practice I could see myself having in the future.
I'm hoping to match into an of the residencies I applied to in NYC. All the places where I interviewed said moonlighting isn't officially allowed, only one place actually enforced it b/c of union labor laws preventing them from working more than 40 hrs/week. Whichever program I end up at, I plan to be in some offices on weekends/evenings to see how dentistry runs in the NYC area and what kind of practice I could see myself having in the future.
It seems like a good plan to me. Go for it.
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I must say... above are some of the most isightful posts that I have read in a while!!
I am also interested in perhaps pursuing a gpr rather than enter the "real world" after dental school and have looked into the basic application process of some schools. From what I have found, the gpr process specifically appears to be a big kids version of dental school application cycle... where you have to get LOR's, fill out info about yourself, board scores, class rank, etc.
Consequently, I was just wondering if getting into a gpr is very competitive and what type of board scores are the norm? What professors are the best to ask for LOR's, clinical or lecture and how many? How many gpr's should you apply to? Did you do externship programs to get ready for your gpr??
Other questions that I have.... did any of you take CE courses while in dental school and if so, which ones?? I realize how valuable it is to know about the more updated techniques of dentistry such perhaps waterlase, implants, cosmetic dentistry, etc. and have actually been encouraged by a dentist friend of mine to take some of these courses.
I have enjoyed reading the previous posts and look forward to hearing your thoughts on some of my questions.
I am also interested in perhaps pursuing a gpr rather than enter the "real world" after dental school and have looked into the basic application process of some schools. From what I have found, the gpr process specifically appears to be a big kids version of dental school application cycle... where you have to get LOR's, fill out info about yourself, board scores, class rank, etc.
Consequently, I was just wondering if getting into a gpr is very competitive and what type of board scores are the norm? What professors are the best to ask for LOR's, clinical or lecture and how many? How many gpr's should you apply to? Did you do externship programs to get ready for your gpr??
Other questions that I have.... did any of you take CE courses while in dental school and if so, which ones?? I realize how valuable it is to know about the more updated techniques of dentistry such perhaps waterlase, implants, cosmetic dentistry, etc. and have actually been encouraged by a dentist friend of mine to take some of these courses.
I have enjoyed reading the previous posts and look forward to hearing your thoughts on some of my questions.
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Eyecandy, are you in dental school now? I can not answer any questions you may have about GPR. I did not attend a program, and even if I had, things have changed since the Bronze Age.
As far as the CE courses while in dental school...I guess you can. I'm not a big fan. On the first day of dental school the academic dean told us as a group that our brain was like a bucket. He said that they were going to keep throwing marbles at this bucket and halfway through the first year the bucket would be full. From then on we had to decide which marble we were going to keep and which we wouldn't, so they can keep throwing marbles at us through the 4th year. Get the drift? You have a lot to worry about in dental school. Take care of that first. There would be enough time for you to learn about the $60,000 equipment you may not use as often as you should. Concentrate on passing the boards and your exams, IMHO.
Are yo really eyecandy?
As far as the CE courses while in dental school...I guess you can. I'm not a big fan. On the first day of dental school the academic dean told us as a group that our brain was like a bucket. He said that they were going to keep throwing marbles at this bucket and halfway through the first year the bucket would be full. From then on we had to decide which marble we were going to keep and which we wouldn't, so they can keep throwing marbles at us through the 4th year. Get the drift? You have a lot to worry about in dental school. Take care of that first. There would be enough time for you to learn about the $60,000 equipment you may not use as often as you should. Concentrate on passing the boards and your exams, IMHO.
Are yo really eyecandy?
Are yo really eyecandy?
Thisisit, are you having too much "adult egg nog" while watching bowl games today???😉 😀 😀
lol jeff, I was just wondering who would call him/herself eyecandy? I hope at least she is a girl. Not that there is anything wrong with being GAY , (the Seinfeld style) but that's a bit too feminine if eyecandy is a guy, don't you think?
JK eyecandy, don't panic. You can be a guy and be eyecandy. just look at my avatar. That's my real picture...
JK eyecandy, don't panic. You can be a guy and be eyecandy. just look at my avatar. That's my real picture...
Originally posted by thisisit
Are yo really eyecandy?
EyeCandy is a graphic accessory program for Adobe Photoshop and Macromedia Fireworks ..... It is one of my favorite program (version 4000)
according to Webster.com also means:
": something superficially attractive to look at "
larryt, sometimes a good looking woman is referred to as eyecandy by immature men
": something superficially attractive to look at "
larryt, sometimes a good looking woman is referred to as eyecandy by immature men
Ok, now that the whole eyecandy fiasco is done, back to another AEGD/GPR question:
I know that for other specialties (OMS, ortho, perio etc) research is highly valued. Is this the same case for GPRs/AEGDs? Or are other criteria more heavily weighed for these specialties?
thanks
I know that for other specialties (OMS, ortho, perio etc) research is highly valued. Is this the same case for GPRs/AEGDs? Or are other criteria more heavily weighed for these specialties?
thanks
Research never hurts on a CV, but basically with respect to an AEGD/GPR it shows them more or less that you were a dental student looking for a summer resaerch stipend and a chance to go and present your findings at a convention that was hopefully in a warm place
😴 I myself fell into that category with s trip to San Antonio during my 2nd year of dental school to presnt my research entitled "Fatigue tesing of removable partial denture alloys"(Yes, I was a total dental geek the summer between my 1st and second years!)
I know that in the GPR that I did, it was a requirement for receiving your certificate at the end of the program that you completed and presented a "grand rounds"(read as a short lecture on your topic where all of the attending doctors in the hospital are invited, but only the dental related attendings and the Doc from administration that drew the proverbial short straw went to)research topic. I know that in my second year of my GPR, I used this research product as "rationale" to justify the 20 veneer case I got to do for no charge to the welfare patient with severe tetracycline staining👍 . This way I'd have some good slides to show during my talk(topic was "Mutliple techniques for the management of dental staining").
During the second year of my GPR, one of the things that I was included in was the selections of applicants to interview, where I got to read all of the applications, and with 1 or 2 exceptions out of the 75+ applications we received that year, research didn't make that candidate stand out anymore than a non research. The only exceptions were people who started their research interests either in high school or early in college and kept with them all the way through dental school.
😴 I myself fell into that category with s trip to San Antonio during my 2nd year of dental school to presnt my research entitled "Fatigue tesing of removable partial denture alloys"(Yes, I was a total dental geek the summer between my 1st and second years!)I know that in the GPR that I did, it was a requirement for receiving your certificate at the end of the program that you completed and presented a "grand rounds"(read as a short lecture on your topic where all of the attending doctors in the hospital are invited, but only the dental related attendings and the Doc from administration that drew the proverbial short straw went to)research topic. I know that in my second year of my GPR, I used this research product as "rationale" to justify the 20 veneer case I got to do for no charge to the welfare patient with severe tetracycline staining👍
. This way I'd have some good slides to show during my talk(topic was "Mutliple techniques for the management of dental staining").During the second year of my GPR, one of the things that I was included in was the selections of applicants to interview, where I got to read all of the applications, and with 1 or 2 exceptions out of the 75+ applications we received that year, research didn't make that candidate stand out anymore than a non research. The only exceptions were people who started their research interests either in high school or early in college and kept with them all the way through dental school.
I did not do a GPR/AEGD - and at first I regretted it/but now I don't. I graduated not having done a lot - basically just the minimum to graduate/ and most of my classmates were in the same boat.
I basically wasted a year trying to find the right job in wisconsin and then moved back to ontario where I have been for 8 months working with an excellent mentor. Honestly, I feel like I have caught up to my friends who have done residencies.
I would warn all Canadians who do not have US loans - and are schooling in the US; that it is probably not econmical to do a GPR/AEGD. This is why I did not.
I basically wasted a year trying to find the right job in wisconsin and then moved back to ontario where I have been for 8 months working with an excellent mentor. Honestly, I feel like I have caught up to my friends who have done residencies.
I would warn all Canadians who do not have US loans - and are schooling in the US; that it is probably not econmical to do a GPR/AEGD. This is why I did not.
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