African American Dental Schools

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grant555

Hello,

I have read many posts on this website that have openly criticized the two predominantly African American dental schools, Meharry and Howard. To be fair, this is not the only website or forum to which I have heard negative aspects of African American institutions or their students, and it is true that Howard has organization problems in its medical and dental program. However, there are predominantly white schools that share these problems or other problems as well. I have my own thoughts as to why this is the case: For one, most Americans have mixed emotions about minority health professionals(physicians, dentists, nurses etc) to begin with whether they attended a historically black college or not. Having spent some years working in hospitals and medical laboratories and dentists offices, I can say that with confidence. Second, one must look at the reasons why predominantly african american schools came to existence in the first place. It was not too long ago that african americans were not permitted to attend predominantly white institutions and were forced to start schools of their own without federal funding and that meant with their own limited funds. The relevance of this is that Howard and Meharry and the other minority institutions emerged from meager origins and are still fighting the funding battle as we speak and so are many other institutions in this country. But it cannot be underestimated of how much less those minority schools had to work with in the beginning. Most large and successful predominantly white schools are supremely funded and have been since their conceptions, and the minority schools are no more apt to compete with them as poor, small white schools are. For example, how likely is anyone to compare a predominantly white community college with Tulane(a school to which I have attended), but readily compare Howard or Meharry to Tulane Med School or another prestigious dental school even though the community college may have equal or more funding than the historically black medical or dental school. Not hardly. The answer is obvioius and is a sad commentary on race relations. Just because someone comes from a minority school doesn't mean that they are intellectually inferior or lazy or professionally inept. Maybe they could not afford to attend a white school or wish to attend school where their relatives or parents attended in the past as so many other students do at white colleges.
I know that there is little or no excuse for bad attitudes that students at this panel have had with minority schools and that those problems should be corrected. But I have heard such similar complaints from students here about white schools. Why should the negative experiences at minority institutions carry more weight and positive marks such as board pass rates be so easily dismissed? Just because so one graduates from Harvard does not guarantee a career of accolades and high accomplishments, nor does graduating from Howard or Meharry guarantee a career of dispair and unprofessionalism.
The most troublesome characteristic I have noticed on this forum is that some students want to hold minority institutions to a different standard than predominantly white schools, which sheds light on why the schools exist in the first place. Finally, I think it is counter productive to take shots at schools that are poorly funded and less prestigious because it is easy to do so. I think it is disingenious to take a negative experience at a minority school and place it as an ear mark for the entire program, its students, the communities that they serve, and finally appalling the minority group itself. The fact remains that I find the majority of the information and dialogue on this forum to be of a high calibor and very informative whether I am a minority student or not. When something noteworthy or germaine to dentistry appears on this website, its value is lessened when the information is jaded with comments about race and usually distracts the purpose of the post or comment in the end, which is exaclty why I usually shy away from such conversations, but recent posts and comments on this website (to which I will not refer) have taken a slighted angle towards hate and should be addressed accordingly. I invite anyone to comment on this post using this forum or my personal website or email [email]

[email][email protected][/email][/email]
www.blackdentaledge.com
 
Joseph,

I appreciate your comments and thoughts, however I'm quite lost as to your ultimate purpose.

Meharry and Howard are RARELY mentioned on these forums because there is literally a 1% interest in them by SDN users.

I fear your comments are falling on deaf ears, or at least ears that really couldn't care less.
 
This is my first comment about either of the mentioned schools. Are you saying that these schools are not to be compared with other dental schools we may be considering? I think that is ridiculous! My primary concern is going to the best school I can for the best price. I don't care how old or new the school is, the size of their endowment, what their origins are, or their racial status. You admit that these schools have problems, so why can't we talk about them? Take a look at a similar thread criticizing NYU. I have never seen a racist comment on the pre-dent forums (though I may have missed one). I certainly don't think that anyone here looks down upon the dental students at Howard or Meharry, nor the dentists that have graduated from these schools. I consider them my colleagues in every sense of the word.

Having grown up in a place with many minorities, having black relatives, and having had black physicians on many occasions, I certainly don't have any problem with minorities as health professionals. I also don't have a problem with two dental schools that probably would never accept me based on my race (white). I do have a problem with the notion that these schools should be sheltered from criticism based on their origins and racial status. I would imagine that the founding fathers of both schools had a vision of comparing favorably, or better, than most dental schools.

I am always honestly confused in situations like this. It seems like you want to confirm these schools are just as good as "white schools" as you put it, yet are trying to play the race card to defend them at the same time. Either argument has merit, but both at the same time always seems contradictory to me.

I wholeheartedly believe in the notion of a "color-blind" society, but there are obstacles to this coming from the majority, and (as illustrated here) minority groups, which I think is unfortunate. I look forward to the day when race is not an issue and criticzing a dental school will not be tied to racial implications.

BTW: great website, lots of nice resources!
 
After looking more at your website let me qualify my previous praise. I found the follwing statement on your website (presumably directed towards other black students considering dentistry):

"The bottom line is: no one is going to take better care of your own than you. Period."

This clear statement that no white dentist will take care of a minority patient better than a minority dentist is just plain wrong. I am aware of and agree with statistics showing that minorities recieve inferior health care. I think this is a tragedy. But to make such an absolute statement that a white dentist will never deliver the standard of care a minority dentist would to a minority patient is EXTREEMLY offensive to me, and many others I'm sure. It seems to be a step in the wrong direction, once again segregating our population along racial lines. Since when as a white dentist do my "own" not also include blacks and other minorities? Are you saying that a black dentist would provide better care to my two black brothers-in-law than I would? Nonsense! I am looking forward to practicing in the south and providing dental care to many types and races of people. You are questioning the racial viewpoints of every white dentist, and that is absurd. With this comment you are flirting with outright racism on your part.

I am sorry if you feel frustrated with the current situation in dentistry. I agree, there need to be steps taken to adress the healthcare gap between whites and the minority groups, and having more black dentists is a very good step in the right direction, but I hope you reconsider posting such a statement on your website and I hope you reconsider your own viewpoints that prompted you to write it.
 
Grant555:

Welcome to SDN. I've been on SDN for two years now and I seldomly see negative attitudes towards Howard and/or MeHarry. I believe that all dental school now days are promoting a diverse ethnic enrollment.

I personally experienced Health Career Opportunity Programs (HCOP) at Marquette University School of Dentistry (MUSoD) where they tailored the program towards recruiting minority potential candidates, especially for African Americans. There are many HCOP funded dental schools in this country.

At Nova Health Professions Division, we have a good representation of African Americans in all the health disciplines. I do, however, appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.

BTW, if I could respectifully recommend that the next time you post, PLEASE, PLEASE break up your paragraphs? I feel like I'm back taking the Reading Comprehension section of the DAT again!

:laugh:
 
Hello,

As I expected, the comments on this forum have fallen somewhere between complete denial and anger.

First to say that my post will fall on deaf ears is exactly the problem because few if any people will want to hear any argument highlighting comments on race relations.

Second, the statement on my website" no one will take better care of your own than you" does not in no way say that white dentists won't take care of minorities, but does imply that ultimately the burden falls on the minority group itself to take care of its peoples. The ultimate goal is self-reliance. How that can be miss interpreted is beyond me. It directly ignores the main purpose of the website which is plainly stated in the first web page.

Third, the trite comment about breaking paragraphs up is the most troubling of all the comments. Why in God's name would you find that cumbersome? Why would you fall that low in saying such a thing?

Fourth, I don't know how in 2 years or how long any of you have posted on this website that you have missed the number of times that those two minority schools have been mentioned. Simply, "SEARCH" SDN using the names of either of the two or both and read the post all the way through.

Fifth, The comment about facing the problems at the above schools is true. It's taking consistent funding to do so and if they can't receive the funding consistently then how in the hell are administration and technical supposed to be resolved? The fact that there are minority programs at white schools does not negate the fact that minority schools are underfunded.

Lastly, I'll repeat again maybe the point won't be missunderstood this time: If anyone on this forum can answer the question as to why and how did those minority institutions come in to exsitence? It was because of unfair treatment and the lack of opportunities at predominantly white schools for African Americans.


If those schools were created b/c of small or no opportunity at white schools, how can they accept high numbers of nonminority students. It defeats the purpose of why the schools' exist in the first place.
 
"Third, the trite comment about breaking paragraphs up is the most troubling of all the comments. Why in God's name would you find that cumbersome? Why would you fall that low in saying such a thing?"

Cause it makes it easier to read....same reason anything is broken into paragraphs!
 
Sometimes it really pisses me off when people break the world into 2 groups: white and black

Example: NYU. Is this a white school? I think not. They pride themselves in having a diverse class. So does this mean we are 50% black and 50% white....think again.

Here's the profile for the 2002 entering class:

Asian American: 114
Hispanic: 10
African American: 5
White: 106 (this is me)

Seems to me here at NYU, I'm the minority. I love the diversity here, one reason why I picked the school. I understand my patients will have different ethnic backgrounds and religon, hopefully I will learn a lot from my fellow classmates.

We are professionals and our duty, as stated in the ADA, is to serve ALL in the population.

Schools have no biasis againist your color. I'm sure you'll harp on the fact that there are only 5 African Americans in the 2002 entering class, well there were only a total of 65 that applied and the total applicant pool was close to 2000!!!

No way at all is this forum againist color. The majority of the people that post here are honest and very well informed (must give itsgavinc and yah-e props), only trying to help out the entering students
 
Originally posted by grant555
Second, the statement on my website" no one will take better care of your own than you" does not in no way say that white dentists won't take care of minorities, but does imply that ultimately the burden falls on the minority group itself to take care of its peoples. The ultimate goal is self-reliance.

Fifth, The comment about facing the problems at the above schools is true. It's taking consistent funding to do so and if they can't receive the funding consistently then how in the hell are administration and technical supposed to be resolved? The fact that there are minority programs at white schools does not negate the fact that minority schools are underfunded.

If those schools were created b/c of small or no opportunity at white schools, how can they accept high numbers of nonminority students. It defeats the purpose of why the schools' exist in the first place.

On these three points:

I can't understand how I am misinterpreting your statement. It seems very clear and direct to me. It says nothing of self reliance, it only comments on who gives "better care." Plus, I would think we would want a society of interdependence and cooperativity, instead of little factions with "self-reliance" for each of them.

About funding: I don't see exactly where you are going with this one? Who is to blame and where should the solution come from? I may be wrong, but I believe these are private schools, so the burden for funding lies with the alumni and student tuition fees. If there are problems due to inconsistent funding, then all the more scary for students who are considering these schools. This SHOULD be a matter for our discussion.

Once again, I have no problem with these schools not accepting large numbers of nonminorities. They have an admirable mission and I hope they are sucessful to that end.

Thanks for posting in paragraphs, please know that Yah-E has the best intentions and was just trying to give you a friendly tip!
 
"To be fair, this is not the only website or forum to which I have heard negative aspects of African American institutions or their students, and it is true that Howard has organization problems in its medical and dental program."

My question is have you made a non-racial issue into one? Do people comment negatively about Meharry and Howard because they are "African American" schools or is it based on performance, stats. and/or previous experiences of students? This is a question...NOT a statement that they DO have inferior stats etc. I know plenty of schools I consider to be less than stellar but it's because 10% of the class fails the boards....it has nothing to do with the racial makeup of the students. Without knowing any stats on Meharry or Howard personally, how do you know the comments aren't based on these kinds of criteria? If they are, should Meharry and Howard be exempt from such comments because they have a large African American population?
 
Hello,

I hope the thrid time is the charm for this question: Why and how did predominantly African Amerian schools come into existence? And if you can't answer it by now, they should change the name of this forum to "Student Denial Network"

You know dam well that race has always been a factor of life and not just admissions' policies and still is.

I don't think that anyone on this forum can answer my question without realizing the state of affairs in race relations, so I won't ask it again.

During my time in the Army, a met many soldiers who thought I was crazy for serving if I thought there was discrimination.
I told them that I was an American and wanted to serve my country too. I was told "you're not an American blackie." The time was 1995 and it was Ft. Sill Oklahoma and I was 19 then.

Now, this is not the motivation behind the first post, nor is it an indication that every member of SDN feels this way. However, we all know that racism exist, and it is not the fault of the person being discriminated against. Isn't it?

So 8yrs and three knee operations later, I am no longer in the Army(declared medically unfit and honorably discharged) and here after giving a great deal of service, I feel that little has changed in that time, but I have hope for myself, SDN, and the future. Thank you all for your comments both well-thought and disingenious alike.
 
Your missing my point....I'm asking questions?? These are not back handed questions meant to make a point. I really want to know your opinion. You are very confrontational to people who mainly seem interested in your post. Some like myself, would like to be enlightened more. Instead, you offend me? Are you mad no one has the answer to your question? Cause I don't! I am not suggesting that all is fair in the admissions process for African Americans and non-minorties! But does that mean people make negative comments about those schools BECAUSE they're African American schools? Do you think Howard and Meharry are the ONLY schools to have budget problems? Do you lump all other non-African American Schools together as rich, white, well funded institutions? Cause they're not!

You have posted a very good topic but seem to just be trolling looking to pick a fight. Relax

"I told them that I was an American and wanted to serve my country too. I was told "you're not an American blackie." The time was 1995 and it was Ft. Sill Oklahoma and I was 19 then."

Yes racism exists....for EVERY RACE and NATIONALITY across the world. You seem to imply that the negative comments about Meharry and Howard are racially motivated...how do you know that?

"You know dam well that race has always been a factor of life and not just admissions' policies and still is.

I don't think that anyone on this forum can answer my question without realizing the state of affairs in race relations, so I won't ask it again."

Really....if yopu look at the stats for Meharry and Howard, I would say the average GPA and DAT are on the low side. I don't think there is a person at my school with a GPA or DAT score that low (including the African American students who are rightful where they are do to THEIR SUPPERIOR stats). Should more African Americans with low scores be admitted to other schools with 13 DATs and a 2.6 GPA? Would they successfully complete the program with a track record like that? COULD THAT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ADMISSIONS POLICY?
 
Joseph,

People like YOU is what makes the US to be more segregated everyday, causing harm to your own race.

btw, I'm a minority too.


Originally posted by ItsGavinC
....Meharry and Howard are RARELY mentioned on these forums because there is literally a 1% interest in them by SDN users......

Exactly!! So how in h*** did Joseph came up with this topic????

Originally posted by grant555
.....And if you can't answer it by now, they should change the name of this forum to "Student Denial Network"......

If you don't feel comfortable around here, you know what to do....
 
I am also a minority...it's too bad Joseph didn't stick around but this would have been my point. Racism is present everywhere for all groups of people. There is not a group of people in this country that at sometime hasn't been put down. And some groups of people suffer more now than others. Just a fact of life. I have been fortunate to get where I am. There are many obsticals for any person to get into dental school and it CAN be extremely difficult for any socio-economically deprived person (black, white, or any race) to get out of high school, through college, and into dental school. But I and every other minority student has to EARN it every bit as much as every other non-minority student. This includes having comparable stats.

I am in no way putting down Howard or Meharry. The lower stats certainly doesn't tell the entire story and those stats work for those programs. However, every school is different (can be very different) and there are definitely schools where a 2.6 GPA and a 13 DAT would almost be acedemic suicide to try and attempt. In these situatiions I think admissions people owe it to the minority student to only accept those who meet the requirments for that program.....this helps insure that the student will successfully complete that program! I believe that there is a good chance now a days that qualified minorities will find a place at a school. My problems is when programs are forced to take so many minority students per year as I could see this leading to the admission of people who aren't qualified in some circumstances. That is bad for the school, but most of all, that is bad for the student!
 
Ok. So, I ran a search and came up with many hits on Meharry and Howard. I'm having a hard time finding any real posts that racially slander the school. In fact, I do find some comments that could be deemed as racial, but they aren't simply ignorant thoughts, just people touching on certain topics.

The majority of the posts I find about those two schools regard admissions processes and pre-dental worries about non-responses on the Univ's part.

Now, Joseph, I urge you to lead us to these posts that you speak of.

I will answer your question...hopefully correctly. You're arguing that Howard and Meharry are grossly underfunded because they had to start from scratch during hard prejudiced times, and have not yet been able to recover/grow the way they need to. The "reason" for this is because the public and government do not see the need to pump more funding into these two particular schools...and to you this stems from racial injustices.

I hope I got that right. Now, I am in no way in denial. I have actually tried to search for a specific post/topic that outright speaks racially against Howard and Meharry, and to no avail.

In addition, you also fail to recognize that there are dozens of schools that don't recieve proper funding. In fact, many private schools are so expensive because of this lack of funding (be it donations or government).

All on this board are mature adults, who see things from two perspective, who take the time to think about what is the topic at hand. We have all read your posts (repeatedly, probably to ensure accurate interpretation). And we all feel that you are taking a non-racial topic, and unnecessarily adding racial backing to it.

Schools do not accept students based on race (with the exception of Howard and Meharry). They simply look at grades, stats, involvement, and interest. I'm at a total loss as to where you're coming from. I don't know why you approached us in this way.

I just wish that you, yourself, would take a step back and look at everything that's been said thus far. I understand your anger with "the view that Howard and Meharry" is held in the public's mind. But, this isn't something that SDN has exemplified (unless you can point us to it). Hence, the reason why your argument is falling on deaf ears.

I myself am a minority, Asian American. And I don't have any school that puts out a program for my heritage as Meharry or Howard does.

Grades are grades. Schools are schools. The ADA recognizes anything that is satisfactory or better...and that's how most of us see it.

Tufts grads, NYU grads, UCLA grads, Howard grads, Univ of Saskat. grads, we're all going to be colleagues. Race, age, religion, background, nothing changes that. DMD or DDS...we're all in the same boat in the same ocean.
 
Originally posted by grant555
Hello,

As I expected, the comments on this forum have fallen somewhere between complete denial and anger.

But to be fair, mine wasn't EITHER of those.

I have zero interest in those schools. As I said, 99% of the SDN users have zero interest in those schools.
 
Hey bro:
don't let those kinda stuff bother you man. There are alot of ignoranc, do your thing
god bless
 
Actually, you guys are ignorant in thinking that there are a slew of people with interest A) in these schools or B) in this topic.

Not that this isn't an important topic, but I don't see how this is the TIME or the PLACE!

...and I thought our neuroscience lectures were confusing.
 
It's not denial. Please provide all the URL's in which people have openly criticized Howard and Meharry.

The fact of the matter is that Howard and Meharry are schools that stress affirmative action for underrepresented minorities. Most of the students on SDN are not underrepresented minorities and thus those schools don't apply to them. This is why they aren't mentioned. If we had more minorities forum members, those schools would probably be mentioned more often. There is no conspircary to avoid talking about Howard and Meharry.

Howard and Meharry are great schools. It's just that most of us will never have the opportunity to attend those schools due to our non-minority status.

Nonetheless, I ignore Howard and Meharry when discussing a non-minority's chances of getting into dental school. I have no problem admitting that. Since both of those schools stress affirmative action for underrepresented minorities, most of us on here have no chance of getting into those schools. Thus I don't like to include those schools in regards to admissions chances.
 
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