After Dental School?.

[Bubblegum]

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This site is a goldmine, eveyone has wealth of info to share.

What?s the best option, to work for someone or have your own practice. If you decide to work with another dentist, how do you go about searching for dentist jobs? What?s the job market like in California? 😕

When I did a job search at yahoo and Monster.com all I came up with was the Air Force hiring that?s it.
🙁

 

[ItsGavinC]

Bubblegum, as far as working as an associate in a practice, I know that dental magazines have LOTS of such ads in them.

I'm interested in the same questions you are. Anybody with some experience care to help us out?

 

[critterbug]

I have found multiple ads in my local metropolitan newspaper, dentists looking for associates in the main cities AND in suburban areas outside the major cities. And, I might add, the salary being offered seems very fair 😉

 

[no2thdk999]

As with everything in dentistry the answer is.... It depends.

Upon graduation you have several options on how to begin your career including the armed forces, IHS, ownership, partnership, associateship, academia, specialization, etc. Since you asked about ownership and associateship I'll post on those two.

I think it is the rare bird that can graduate from dental school and hang out his own shingle for a scratch practice. First of all, no bank will loan you money until you've passed your board and been licensed. Once you have the money figure at least 3-6 months to have your facility outfitted. So for the first 6 months you're going to have to work for someone, not work, or buy an existing practice.

I also think it is the rare person that graduates from dental school with any idea how to run a business. Maybe if you went back to school after being in the work force or owning a business, but for the average guy/gal I think it would be a road of hard knocks learning the business of dentisry.

Out of my class of 77, 2 opened their own office as soon as they could. For one that was 6 months for the other about 9. One IS that rare combination of charisma, confidence, risk taking, and leadership that can make it work and he has done gangbusters. It didn't hurt that he went back to his hometown where everyone knew him and there was only one other older dentist. The other guy took two years to start making a profit. The whole time his wife kept asking him "why are we still living in an apartment DOCTOR Smith?"

I think it is more prudent for the majority of dental graduates to associate with another practice for a length of time (1-5 years depending on how fast a learner you are) to make the mistakes on someone else's tab (and you will make plenty, everyone does).

So how do you find an associateship? The short answer is network. Go to local dental meetings and get to know dentists where you want to live. Another great resource is the dental supply reps. They visit offices on a regular basis and usually know who is looking for help. It also makes them look good if they can help a senior doc find an associatship so they really don't mind helping you out.

How do you find a GOOD associateship? Ask to speak with past employee dentists, go visit and see how things work, ask other dentists about the place. There are lots of dental mills where they promise a new grad a great opportunity and then you end up doing poor dentistry on HMO patients. Many of the large clinics will use you as slave labor.

People graduating in the near future will be in a great position as lots of docs will be thinking about retiring and want to bring in someone to tranistion out of the office. I think it would be ideal to go to work for someone who was willing to mentor you into being a better dentist/businessperson because they want you to enjoy the practice and buy it from them eventually.

Anyway JMH(Long winded)O

Rob

 

[Rob2005]

Dr. Rob,

That post was really informative. I have another question for you, if you don't mind-I am looking for the best possible way to improve my skills and speed after I graduate in 2 yrs, and money isn't really a factor. What do you suggest would be the best choice? Thanks a lot.

Rob

 

[larryt]

well so far, I already got the promise from 6 different dental offices in Houston for associateship. ah... I'm not even in dental school yet. Not to mention about the dental public health job from Harris County Health Dept. Network.. network and network......

 

[croco]

how do u know those offices will be hiring in 6 yrs?

 

[larryt]

of course..... 3 from my bros-in-law, 3 from my friends. I don't have to work full times at 1 place.

 

[larryt]

for Harris Count Health Dept., I have been working closely with them for last 3 yrs on many of community projects.

 

[UBTom]

The advantages of coming from a family with dentists in it. 😀

Thankfully I'm in that boat as well.

 

[Jazzman6]

LarryT- I'm in Houston too. How is the DDS position like at the County Clinic? What kind of pts comes thru, what procedures are done routinally, and how's the pay?
Plus where is it located?

Thanks

 

[larryt]

" what procedures are done routinally ?" None

Their jobs at Harris County Health Dept are to collect data (like a research) from the specific segment of population through interview,survey and healthfair along with other health professionals.

Please do not confuse between Harris County Health Dept and Harris County Hospital District. Harris County Hospital District operates Ben Taub, LBJ and many other dental and medical clinics around the county.

 

[no2thdk999]

Rob '05

The answer of couse is.... it depends.

First I would start by saying the fastest way to improve your skills and training after you graduate is to start now. I'm one of those people who liked dental school and never missed an opportunity to be in the clinic and learn something new. Don't be that guy that pesters proffesors with 100 questions a day but find one or two that you like and who's style of dentistry you like and pick their brain as much as you can. Get in the clinic as much as you can. If I had time off I would go assist a classmate or go to the spec. residents and ask if I could assist them. Most programs don't splurge for assistants so they would more than likely love the help, plus it gives them a chance to be the teacher instead of the student. Dental school is the best place to be if you want to learn to be a better dentist.

Once you get out I'd suggest a similar approach. Start looking now for a doc who might hire you as an associate. Pick someone who wants you to succeed and takes an active interest in you becoming better. When I started I worked for two dentists. One paid less but had a different style office and I thought I could learn a lot from him so I split my time between them. I know one guy who works Fridays in a SUPER doc's office. He does not get paid. The senior dentist takes what he would be paid and puts it towards CE classes for the associate. Some courses are a week long and cost upwards of $7-10K. So he gets the mentoring while he's there and he gets great CE classes that he probably wouldn't pay for if it was left to him. Ask to go watch the specialists in your area at work every once and a while. They will want your referrals and most likely enjoy another dentist being around. Go visit your lab, ask what you can do to make their job easier. Ask them to show you common problems from other docs.

Go to all the CE classes you can. Your state will likely require somewhere from 20-50 hours every 1-3 years. You should easily be going to 100 hours a year. Join a local study club. There will be plenty wherever you go. Some will be mostly social but some will have a lot of substance.

When you first start out you will be slow and things will take longer than you think they should. Just know that it's going to be that way and jump in with both feet. There is no greater teacher than experience. Try to start with the end in mind. Know where you're trying to get and the steps to get there will fall in place.

The it depends part comes into play here. The above is the best way to become a bread and butter dentist. If you want to increase your skills regarding IV sedation, 3rd molar extractions, complicated endo, medically compromised patients.... the best thing would be a quality GPR program. A GPR would also increase your speed in the other areas as well. I wanted to do a GPR but my wife was in a separate Match program and it would have been very hard for us to end up in the same location. The downside is I would have made about $60k less per year as a GPR resident and I would have worked a lot harder longer hours.

Always keep learning. There is a big difference between a dentist with 30 years experience who is always pushing him/herself to learn new techniques and another dentist with one year of experience that he's repeated 29 times.


JMHLWO
Rob

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Dentist in Jacksonville

Since I do not know much, is this a good offer?

 

[UBTom]

Gahh... I don't think I like that offer.

They want you to pay for your own lab fees, and that's a BIG boo-boo.

This is illustrated very well by the instructor at my school for the practice management course: Say if the practice charges $600 for a crown and the lab fee is $200. After you collect your 40% of the fee, which would be $240, you would have to pay the lab fee out of your own pocket, so you keep only $40 for doing the crown!

No thanks!

A fair offer would be to have the patient pay for the lab fee. The lab fee is deducted from the $600 fee for the procedure first and the remainder is divvied up between the practice owner and associate, who takes his 40% of the remaining $400 collection after the $200 lab fee-- $160.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I was going to say the same things Tom said. 40% of collections is pretty good, but paying ALL of the lab fees makes that 40% quite a different number. A better bet would be 35% of collections without paying any lab fees.

Still better would be 35% of PRODUCTION, which we'll all learn may differ quite a bit from collections.

But, if any dentist is willing to give you 35% of production with no lab fees, then god bless you.

 

[no2thdk999]

I would bet you would not be doing many crowns at "Home of the one day dentures".

This sounds like a low price run 'em in and out denture mill. There is one here, it charges $39/tooth for an extraction and it's dentures start at $255/arch. A place like this will keep the bargain shoppers out of your practice but we do a lot of clean up work on people who went there first.

I would work for 40% of production even if I had to pay my lab fees (1/2 lab fees is more customary). If your lab fee is $200 your crown fee is not going to be $600. A good avereage is 4-5 times the lab fee. I pay around $165 for a PFM and charge $787. Most of the stuff you will do will not have a lab fee. (exams, x-rays, fillings, etc..)

Making the associate pay the lab fee keeps you from doing a crown for $600 and sending it to the $350 lab, and then sending it back to be redone when the shade is off for another $50.

Having said that I would not work for collections unless I REALLY trusted the office. Why should I let my compensation be decided by the front desk staff's ability to collect when they are not responsible to me (i.e. I can't fire them)? Maybe they give the potential deadbeats to you with the thought that if they pay great, if they don't pay at least it was you that worked for free.

I also would not work with out a guaranteed minimum. There needs to be motivation for the dentist to make sure your schedule is busy with productive procedures. You don't want to sit around all day and check hygiene and see emergencies.

As for the other stipulations in the job posting, you cannot make someone give you 8 weeks notice. Most states are "right to work" which means you can quit or be fired for any non protected reason (such as race, religion, gender....) Also you cannot withold money from a person's paycheck. Even if they embezzled and stole, you have to pay them and go after it in court. The fact that they felt the need to put that in the job listing is a big red flag to me. Oh, and your liability insurance the first year will be around $2-300, not a very big perk.

Rob

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Thanks guys...this is really great!!!

Maybe others could find some real postings and get a review just like we just did. It was very informative.