Age discrimination

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firsttimer123

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Hey all,

I understand that there are a lot of threads out there about non-traditional medical students - but i am curious about if they received any age discrimination toward any specialities and fields they wanted to go to.

I will be hopefully 27 when i attend med school and 31 when going toward residencies and I am worried that some of the competitive or strenuous fields might be closed off to be to my age. Such as any surgery field.

What is your guys inputs and experiences? I have a strong research/academic background but no graduate degree.
 
I don’t get the system. When you’re applying you are given a hard time for being young as I was when I applied to medical school at 19-20. One of my friends had a 36, perfect gpa, was socially intelligent, and most likely didn’t get in basically because he was 18 which I thought was ridiculous. He knows this because not one, but a few places told him this straight up after and he basically had to waste a year when he was already competitive. I get that adcoms love gap years and try to actively recruit an older, diverse group with previous jobs/unique experiences, but then those same people they recruit are then discriminated for residency? Lolz...
 
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firsttimer123 said:
Hey all,

I understand that there are a lot of threads out there about non-traditional medical students - but i am curious about if they received any age discrimination toward any specialities and fields they wanted to go to.

I will be hopefully 27 when i attend med school and 31 when going toward residencies and I am worried that some of the competitive or strenuous fields might be closed off to be to my age. Such as any surgery field.

What is your guys inputs and experiences? I have a strong research/academic background but no graduate degree.
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I doubt you will face any discrimination. But 31 is kind of old to start a residency, and you will have to decide if you really want to pursue surgical training at that point..
 
doc05 said:
I doubt you will face any discrimination. But 31 is kind of old to start a residency, and you will have to decide if you really want to pursue surgical training at that point..
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Dafuq?....my BF is 39 finishing his last year of acute care surgery fellow, after doing 5 years of GS, 2 years of research and 2 years of fellowship. 31 is not old! Believe it or not, a lot of us (myself too) are going to be 31 when we finish med school.

We're at our prime, baby! Poor and eager!
 
doc05 said:
I doubt you will face any discrimination. But 31 is kind of old to start a residency, and you will have to decide if you really want to pursue surgical training at that point..
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31 is not "kind of old" to start residency. At least not anymore. Maybe things have changed.
 
Average first year medical student age is 26.
 
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
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MD PHDs get this pass all the time. The median age of matriculation is 24 on the MD side but is likely to be higher on the DO side. But who knows if older students are getting discriminated against. Havent seen any proof one way or the other.
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
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1. They aren't looking that close at birthdates on applicants. Unless you are clearly MUCH older, it's unlikely to come up.
2. It's actually not that easy to tell a healthy 27 yo from a healthy 32 yo based on appearance. They both look "30ish".
3. In residency, I had no idea everyone else's exact age unless they were a lot older or they mentioned it. Some people were 5-10 years older than their classmates but looked like they blended right in. No one ever asked me my age and I was a couple years older than most of my intern classmates. Once people who did research years joined my class, I was one of the youngest as a chief.
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly.
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Yes, I do. I don't think a 31 year old is at an automatic disadvantage. You may even be at an advantage because people generally take you more seriously as you age. There are numerous surgery residents in my program who started around age 30 (myself included). There might be some disadvantage starting around 40+, but who knows.
 
Syncrohnize said:
I don’t get the system. When you’re applying there’s age discrimination applied to 19/20 year olds like me as adcoms try to actively recruit a diverse group with previous jobs/non-trads, but when we are done there’s age discrimination towards older students? Do adcoms expect the rigor of medical school to decelerate aging?
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Have been thinking the same thing lately. In the same boat 🙂


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mybluedog said:
Have been thinking the same thing lately. In the same boat 🙂


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Congratulations. That’s quite the achievement and even though you may not realize it now, you’ll hit some bumps along the way. I was in the same boat so please feel to reach out ever for anything in general. Love the collie in your profile picture.
 
If you’re a strong qualified candidate no one will care how old you are.
It’s not other interns who hire you for residency. Maybe if you’re visibly older than the PD you could possibly become worried about age discrimination - but still prob not.
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
Click to expand...

Ya, no. Coming from someone who has been involved in residency selection in a competitive specialty, everything in this post is bull****.
 
Syncrohnize said:
Congratulations. That’s quite the achievement and even though you may not realize it now, you’ll hit some bumps along the way. I was in the same boat so please feel to reach out ever for anything in general. Love the collie in your profile picture.
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Its been a crazy ride and I'm so excited to start med school! Its good to hear someone in the same boat has made it! 🙂
 
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mimelim said:
Ya, no. Coming from someone who has been involved in residency selection in a competitive specialty, everything in this post is bull****.
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Sorry, I can't take seriously the opinion of a guy who aggressively touts his n=1 experience to make unequivocal assertions about hundreds of programs and thousands of individuals.
 
SDN is too rosy...there are some people who are biased against. I would say probably 25% alluded negatively to my age (all of them non-MDs), and some who probably covertly judged.

They don't matter. The one who accepts does.

I doubt its as much of an issue at residency.
 
At the age of 42, I interviewed at 8 solid anesthesia residency programs. Age was never brought up and one program director asked me to please come to their program, because they are tired of “millennials who whine and don’t know how to work hard.”
 
Money Moniker said:
Sorry, I can't take seriously the opinion of a guy who aggressively touts his n=1 experience to make unequivocal assertions about hundreds of programs and thousands of individuals.
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Lets see, logic and limited experience vs. imagination. You know nothing about this topic, yet make many assertions that fly in the face of basic logic. My experiences directly counter that. If you have some sort of insight into this other than your imagination and hand waving, would be happy to hear about it.
 
flightnurse2MD said:
At the age of 42, I interviewed at 8 solid anesthesia residency programs. Age was never brought up and one program director asked me to please come to their program, because they are tired of “millennials who whine and don’t know how to work hard.”
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.......and let me guess on match day you did not match into that program?
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
Click to expand...
10 year olds self segregate by age. Big difference between 8, 10, and 12.

20 year olds do too - less of a difference, but you can clearly see a difference in maturity between 18, 20, and 22. Even here though, there are plenty of people in college that have friends in other strata.

30 year olds though? There's no functional difference between 28, 30, and 32. Here, the self segregation based on age is fairly nonexistent. People are far more likely to sort themselves based on life stage - married people hanging out with other married people, people with kids with other people with kids, etc, and that stuff correlates poorly with age in 2018.

OP, no one will care. The average medical school graduate these days is 28 or 29, and half of people are above that average .
 
Money Moniker said:
I could easily see how being 30+ could reduce your chances of landing a spot. Residents and attendings on SDN constantly wax poetic about the importance of "fit" for both the applicant and the program. Wishful thinking aside, does anyone really believe that everything else being equal, a 30+ year old is not at a disadvantage compared to a 27 year old for being selected to join a team (interns) where the average age is 27?

People self segregate by age. Residents have input into ranking applicants, and again everything else being equal, they'd rather mentor, work with, and hang with someone their age or younger and will consciously or subconsciously rank accordingly. Faculty, too, naturally gravitate towards selecting younger pupils because that's basically how tutelage has always worked.

Not saying its a deal breaker, but saying age doesn't matter "unless you're 50" is kind of like saying its doesn't matter where you go to med school "so long as its not the Carib."
Click to expand...

What magical thing do you think happens on a person’s 30th birthday? I’m closer to 30 than I am to 20 so I’d like to brace myself.
 
I'm about 5 years older than average and certainly felt out of place on several auditions and a few interviews as well. I ended up ranking high and matching where I felt most comfortable and a place with several 30+yo residents.

In my experience, places where residents have a large say in the ranking process may be more inclined to pass on an older student if the residents are majority younger. On the flip side, you might be a more welcomed fit for a more mature group of residents. I won't call it ageism, but something exists imo.
 
trs88 said:
Since when is 31 old? I could see this type of question being asked if someone was nearing 50. Just get high board scores and there shouldn't be an issue.
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some of the comments in the thread say otherwise
 
ThreeCheers said:
What magical thing do you think happens on a person’s 30th birthday? I’m closer to 30 than I am to 20 so I’d like to brace myself.
Click to expand...

Every time somebody asks my age I go, "twenty - ... oh wait ****.... thirty" 😕:scared:

And you're another verse through this song:

 
firsttimer123 said:
Hey all,

I understand that there are a lot of threads out there about non-traditional medical students - but i am curious about if they received any age discrimination toward any specialities and fields they wanted to go to.

I will be hopefully 27 when i attend med school and 31 when going toward residencies and I am worried that some of the competitive or strenuous fields might be closed off to be to my age. Such as any surgery field.

What is your guys inputs and experiences? I have a strong research/academic background but no graduate degree.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, my school's two oldest students ever both went into EM.
 
Goro said:
For what it's worth, my school's two oldest students ever both went into EM.
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Make sense. Short residency and then possisbility of working your own schedule. Not all EM is hectic. Community hospital ER is like 1 patient every 2 hours.
 
NeurologyHopeful2018 said:
Make sense. Short residency and then possisbility of working your own schedule. Not all EM is hectic. Community hospital ER is like 1 patient every 2 hours.
Click to expand...
Agree...ER residency is now 3 years and while the work itself is very hard, it's not killer in terms of hours. Feasible for the older crowd to handle
 
Moving to pre-allo.

Entering med school at age 27 doesn't even qualify as "non-traditional." If you choose to weigh the opinion of the one person on this thread who thinks it makes a difference over all of the other people who are saying it doesn't, that's your prerogative.
 
I was the same age (27 starting, 31 graduating med school) and went for a surgical subspecialty. I had some weak spots on my app, but I'm pretty sure my age and prior experiences only made my app stronger. I wouldn't worry about age discrimination for residency until you start getting up into your 40s (and only if you look it). Even then, I'm not sure how much it happens.
 
Syncrohnize said:
I don’t get the system. When you’re applying there’s age discrimination applied to 19/20 year olds like I once was as adcoms try to actively recruit a diverse group with previous jobs/non-trads, but when we are done there’s some age discrimination towards older students? Do adcoms expect the rigor of medical school to decelerate the aging of their prized nontrads?
Click to expand...


Some points I would like to raise regarding your statement:


1. The increasing amount of gap-years taken by a student may account for the larger amount of older residents. Gap years were relatively uncommon when most of these adcoms were applying and matriculating into medical school.

2. I do think adcoms favor the 23-26 age range for accepting students. I am older than that and on more than one occasion, my age was brought into question (family expectation, obligations, duration of career).

3. As an non-trad, there will be instances were your superiors are much younger than you and if they are apart of medical school or residency admission process, you may be subjected to their wrath (hyperbole intended).
 
firsttimer123 said:
clearly this is a huge difference in opinions though. and I am not a typical premed 🙂
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Pride cometh before the fall!

And the typical pre-med has never been to medical school or applied for residency. Do you fit into this category? 😉
 
Donald Juan said:
I was the same age (27 starting, 31 graduating med school) and went for a surgical subspecialty. I had some weak spots on my app, but I'm pretty sure my age and prior experiences only made my app stronger. I wouldn't worry about age discrimination for residency until you start getting up into your 40s (and only if you look it). Even then, I'm not sure how much it happens.
Click to expand...
Entadus said:
Pride cometh before the fall!

And the typical pre-med has never been to medical school or applied for residency. Do you fit into this category? 😉
Click to expand...

You are correct, my good sir. I accept defeat 🙁
 
Syncrohnize said:
I don’t get the system. When you’re applying you are given a hard time for being young as I did when applied to medical school at 19-20. One of my friends had a 36, perfect gpa, was socially intelligent, and most likely didn’t get in because he was 18 which I thought was ridiculous. He knows this because not one, but a few places told him this straight up. I get that adcoms love gap years and try to actively recruit a diverse group with previous jobs/non-trads, but then those same people they recruit are then discriminated for residency? Lolz...
Click to expand...

Myself and pretty much everyone I’ve known are completely different now (at age 22-23) then we were several years ago (17-18).

It’s really a precautionary measure because most people completely change during those years as they adjust to being real world adults. So schools prefer to take the safe road and have young applicants wait a bit.
 
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