Aging Adventurer Seeks Advice

[Leopold2]

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Here's the short version of my professional life so far:

I went to a Jesuit liberal arts college, got a BS in Economics, 3.87 GPA. Then went to R1 state school and got dual MA/MS in Economics and Math. My thesis was on the stability of a numerical algorithm which I co-created; I published single-authored paper based on the thesis in a mid-tier math/engineering journal. After graduate school I was a mathematics instructor at a well-respected state school. Due to professor shortage and rigor of my graduate degree I ended up teaching a number of upper-division mathematics courses during this time (along with dozens and dozens of calculus courses).

And you know where this is going... After all that I realized that what I really want to do with my life is be an ER doc! Ugh. So I decided to quit my job and spend some time making ABSOLUTELY SURE that this was the right move. I got my EMT cert and worked on an ambulance in a major city, I also got a second job working with homeless young adults transitioning into independent living. My experiences in these basic human services have confirmed that, yes, I absolutely want to spend the rest of my life as a doctor.

Basically, there are two paths I can follow from here. I can take a position in a psychiatric/behavioral unit (at a teaching/research hospital which happens to be associated with the MD program I would love to attend) that requires 24 hours a week and is well-compensated. This job would be working directly with adolescents and young adults. During this time I would do prereqs at community college and use my EMT cert volunteering on ski patrol.

Alternatively, I can move to another state that has an excellent (and affordable) post-bacc program in a small town that I would love to live in. I would do ski patrol and work as an EMT.

Either way I will be 33 or 34 by the time I apply to programs.

What advice do you have for me and what path would you choose if this were you? I am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

check the domicile requirements in the other state. being a student isn't usually a qualifier. your instate determination might rest on how quickly you can get that EMT job. the rules are usually available at any of the state's public school websites under "residency determination".

usually community college is not recommended, but with your strong prior undergrad it's not horrible. assuming great grades & strong mcat.

in your shoes i'd pick on where i want to live & which state has the best instate public school odds. keep in mind you have an app year after you finish the prereqs & take the mcat. you don't HAVE to do a job like that psych gig if you keep up clinical activities.

ski your fanny off, regardless.

best of luck to you.

 

[Leopold2]

check the domicile requirements in the other state. being a student isn't usually a qualifier. your instate determination might rest on how quickly you can get that EMT job. the rules are usually available at any of the state's public school websites under "residency determination".

usually community college is not recommended, but with your strong prior undergrad it's not horrible. assuming great grades & strong mcat.

in your shoes i'd pick on where i want to live & which state has the best instate public school odds. keep in mind you have an app year after you finish the prereqs & take the mcat. you don't HAVE to do a job like that psych gig if you keep up clinical activities.

ski your fanny off, regardless.

best of luck to you.

Thanks for the advice. I am from WA and considering a move to MT so U Washington is "in state" for both of these options. Could you expound a little more on "not recommended"? I am having trouble determining how much effort I should put in to not going to a CC. I would hate to take a more convenient route and have it come back to bite me.

 

[Leopold2]

I'm not qualified to give advice, just wanted to wish you luck on your future endeavors! Felt a bit of skier camaraderie. I was a ski instructor in WA state and was slated to take one of those wilderness first responder courses---->ski patrol (already qualified to huck avy bombs), but alas the military took one last jab at my soul and sent me to Texas.

I'm leaning toward EM as well. If we organize, maybe a decade from now we can change the conference locations from vegas to chamonix!

Good luck!

Thanks! I am sorry to hear you got sent to Texas... Not much skiing down there. One of my biggest hesitations to going into medicine is that I won't be able to spend much time in the mountains for a long period of time. I wonder how that will feel.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for the advice. I am from WA and considering a move to MT so U Washington is "in state" for both of these options. Could you expound a little more on "not recommended"? I am having trouble determining how much effort I should put in to not going to a CC. I would hate to take a more convenient route and have it come back to bite me.

Regardless of whether a community college, or any specific coursework or faculty at a CC, is outstanding and rigorous and reputable etc, overall CC's are considered less outstanding/rigorous/reputable, in general. You may have a very difficult time getting letters of recommendation from science faculty at a CC. You may face less competition in your classmates in a CC, and find yourself on your own to maintain your motivation and focus (regardless of grades) whereas at a university the med school prereqs are the graveyard of dreams where the most ambitious and motivated students are working with/against you to survive. You likely won't get much help at a CC with clinical and lab opportunities that are more abundant at a research university.

Again, with a strong MCAT and strong fresh grades in the prereqs on top of your 3.82 and teaching background, I don't see a problem with doing CC work. You just have to be the grownup managing the CC downside (above).

I certainly wouldn't go back to Seattle U (I assume) and pay their tuition rates. And I wouldn't try to break into UW premed science classes, which I did in 2006 and which I regret. If I could do it again, I'd do PSU just to get away from the crowds, or maybe WWU. SCC and BCC are really crowded. Shoreline might be alright.

In your shoes I'd hightail it to MT, no regrets. Obviously it's better if you do UM or MSU, but I don't know the CC ecosystem there at all.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMikeP]

Read some of my posts in others threads on going into psychiatry. Take a job as a psych tech in a public hospital and get to know/shadow psychiatrists if you are considering that path. It is not what many think and many become disillusioned at the system. 5 min med management is too common in the field and too often you can not have time for anything else, as you have 50 pts and only you due to funding issues. Great people are needed in mental health, but it truly isn't for everyone.

Best of luck

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Leopold2]

Regardless of whether a community college, or any specific coursework or faculty at a CC, is outstanding and rigorous and reputable etc, overall CC's are considered less outstanding/rigorous/reputable, in general. You may have a very difficult time getting letters of recommendation from science faculty at a CC. You may face less competition in your classmates in a CC, and find yourself on your own to maintain your motivation and focus (regardless of grades) whereas at a university the med school prereqs are the graveyard of dreams where the most ambitious and motivated students are working with/against you to survive. You likely won't get much help at a CC with clinical and lab opportunities that are more abundant at a research university.

Again, with a strong MCAT and strong fresh grades in the prereqs on top of your 3.82 and teaching background, I don't see a problem with doing CC work. You just have to be the grownup managing the CC downside (above).

I certainly wouldn't go back to Seattle U (I assume) and pay their tuition rates. And I wouldn't try to break into UW premed science classes, which I did in 2006 and which I regret. If I could do it again, I'd do PSU just to get away from the crowds, or maybe WWU. SCC and BCC are really crowded. Shoreline might be alright.

In your shoes I'd hightail it to MT, no regrets. Obviously it's better if you do UM or MSU, but I don't know the CC ecosystem there at all.

Best of luck to you.

Excellent info. I believe I understand the two paths much better.

I have ruled out Seattle U (the cost of doing a few courses is UNREAL); you are correct, I'm thinking SCC or BCC. By PSU do you mean Portland State?

For Montana I'm specifically thinking about waiting/working a year to get in-state status and then doing the post-bacc program at Montana State. I haven't talked to anyone who has done it but it appears quick (16 months), comprehensive, and affordable (about $10,000). Alternatively, I was/am considering going to UW and getting into the prereq rat race there. Did you end up getting a second degree at UW? Where did you do these courses?

The three individuals who have written me letters in the past are all top-of-their-field research-type full professors, all of whom I know personally (and have known for a long time). One is in engineering, one was my math advisor, and one is a priest. (My biggest concern is that the engineering prof may at some point tell me that the only support he will give me is to come do my PhD with him, which he has long-advocated... but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it). In your opinion, will these suffice for recommendations or is it essential that I get letters from prereq science instructors?

Again, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to give me advice by the way. It's been hugely helpful.

 

[Leopold2]

+1 on UPS, love that campus. You could also consider PLU.
I did a stint at SPSCC and have nothing but good things to say about the faculty. My experience after transferring to a "real" school has been the opposite of all the stereotypes. My study partners at the WA CC were all older, motivated, and disciplined. I have yet to find a parter at my current university that share my values/goals.

How close are the MT schools to big sky/bridger bowl? that's what you need to be worried about. UPS/PLU to Crystal isn't too bad of a drive, but if you can find a shorter commute in MT, do that!

Haha so true! I would be in Bozeman, so Bridger (probably my all-time favorite place to ski) is 15 miles and Big Sky is 50. Amazing proximity, in other words. I love Crystal and that would be the place to go from PLU for sure.

SPSCC is South Puget Sound, correct? It's really good to hear you had such a positive experience.

A lot of this comes down to a family consideration though... the job I'm considering is at Seattle Children's and the pay, benefits, hours are excellent. My extremely supportive partner and her parents live in Seattle and she is seeing the next few years as an ideal time to start a family. So while younger-me wouldn't think twice about heading to MT, I might have to make a sacrifice here (skiing for kids).

 

[DrMidlife]

Portland State is perfectly reasonable. Hood is good. But I was talking about Puget Sound U. Private, spendier, but when I was in the market it was better than SU. I don't know anything about the CCs other than the ones in the Seattle/Eastside areas.

Montana State sounds perfectly reasonable too. Probably that option is my favorite on your menu.

At UW I spent 2 quarters building up my case to get accepted for a 2nd bachelors in micro. Didn't finish it but that's a long story. During the 2 quarters (and after as well) the cage match of registering for science classes and not drowning in anonymity was completely demoralizing. One time on an elevator in the rabbit-warren-like health sciences complex I got crushed at the back by people squishing to get on - that was the last time I trusted the crowds to not be evil. I would assume a UW story is one where you'd have the least control over your schedule for completing coursework, but maybe the best opportunities. But dang, I feel claustrophobic just thinking about it.

You absolutely need at least one fresh letter from fresh science coursework. The rest sound fine, well rounded. Your "priest" letter is better described as your "non-science" letter unless you're going after Loma Linda. Most schools want 3 but I recall at least two schools that want 4.

 

[Leopold2]

I'm not qualified to give advice, just wanted to wish you luck on your future endeavors! Felt a bit of skier camaraderie. I was a ski instructor in WA state and was slated to take one of those wilderness first responder courses---->ski patrol (already qualified to huck avy bombs), but alas the military took one last jab at my soul and sent me to Texas.

I'm leaning toward EM as well. If we organize, maybe a decade from now we can change the conference locations from vegas to chamonix!

Good luck!

By the way, you might find this kind of cool: the two most amazing things I've ever seen in a ski area both happened at Bridger Bowl. One was a dude who had to have been a pro/local legend jumping a massive section of unskiable terrain and landing it like it was nothing. The other, arguably more impressive thing was a guy in the upper lodge drinking a beer with both a padded infant and an avy beacon tucked inside his jacket. Seeing that gave me so much hope! It's probably par-for-the-course stuff in Bozeman though.

 

[Leopold2]

Portland State is perfectly reasonable. Hood is good. But I was talking about Puget Sound U. Private, spendier, but when I was in the market it was better than SU. I don't know anything about the CCs other than the ones in the Seattle/Eastside areas.

Montana State sounds perfectly reasonable too. Probably that option is my favorite on your menu.

At UW I spent 2 quarters building up my case to get accepted for a 2nd bachelors in micro. Didn't finish it but that's a long story. During the 2 quarters (and after as well) the cage match of registering for science classes and not drowning in anonymity was completely demoralizing. One time on an elevator in the rabbit-warren-like health sciences complex I got crushed at the back by people squishing to get on - that was the last time I trusted the crowds to not be evil. I would assume a UW story is one where you'd have the least control over your schedule for completing coursework, but maybe the best opportunities. But dang, I feel claustrophobic just thinking about it.

You absolutely need at least one fresh letter from fresh science coursework. The rest sound fine, well rounded. Your "priest" letter is better described as your "non-science" letter unless you're going after Loma Linda. Most schools want 3 but I recall at least two schools that want 4.

Yes, the letter from the priest would be the non-science letter. Good to know; I'll keep getting a 4th "fresh" letter in mind. And I'm feeling claustrophobic just hearing about it. Eesh. "Cage match of registering for classes" haha oh no. As if taking that path isn't tough enough in and of itself there's that.