Air Force Anesthesia and 3 year HPSP

[EmmaNemma]

I am considering taking a 3 year HPSP scholorship to serve in the Air Force. I have ruled out all of the other service options. I have somewhat of a feel for what I am getting myself into but wanted to get some feedback on the following questions.

1. What are the chances of someone matching straight thru into Air Force Anesthesiology after medical school? Can you give me an idea of the current number of spots v applicants?
2. Do you apply for AF anes residency while in the 4th year or during the internship year?
3. If I do a 4 year residency after taking a 3 year scholorship, do I then owe 4 years or 3 years? My recruiter insist on 3 years.
4. Will graduating with a DO from Nova make me less competitive in the matching process?

Please only respond if you know the answer. Thanks.

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[NK1Positive]

I am considering taking a 3 year HPSP scholorship to serve in the Air Force. I have ruled out all of the other service options. I have somewhat of a feel for what I am getting myself into but wanted to get some feedback on the following questions.

1. What are the chances of someone matching straight thru into Air Force Anesthesiology after medical school? Can you give me an idea of the current number of spots v applicants?
2. Do you apply for AF anes residency while in the 4th year or during the internship year?
3. If I do a 4 year residency after taking a 3 year scholorship, do I then owe 4 years or 3 years? My recruiter insist on 3 years.
4. Will graduating with a DO from Nova make me less competitive in the matching process?

Please only respond if you know the answer. Thanks.

1) idk more likely to go straight through w Army
2) I assume similar match process so 4th year.. unless you don't match or get a GMO or something
3) Unless HPSP has changed since last year... you pay back whatever is longest so 4 yrs for Anesthesiology residency. OR if you take the 20K sign-on it is a MINIMUM of 4 yrs even if you take a 3 year scholarship and do you 3 year residency. ~ (that is if you do the AF anesthesia residency. If you get deferred to a civilian one it may be 3 years payback) ~EDIT
4) Nova is a good school despite what you hear people complaining about on SDN. With HPSP you wouldnt have to worry about taking the USMLE for that ACGME anesthesia spot since the military does the "conversion" w the COMLEX.

 

[PMPMD]

I think Wilford Hall is the only USAF Anesthesia residency program.

Disclaimer: I'm not military, but I rotated with the WH guys in med school.

 

[PMPMD]

This thread seems to answer the DO question:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-94463.html

 

[kingcer0x]

This thread seems to answer the DO question:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-94463.html

I'm pretty sure the OP in that quoted thread ended up becoming a flight surgeon. Like me.

Search through the mil med forum or go to the AF GME website and look at the GME allocations closely. Some years there are spots, other years they aren't. The spots which are there, may be gobbled up by flight docs and GMOs.

I would become comfortable about becoming a flight surgeon before you sign your contract. It's actually a fun job at times. Don't worry about me taking a spot tho, I am applying civilian.

 

[psychbender]

I am considering taking a 3 year HPSP scholorship to serve in the Air Force. I have ruled out all of the other service options. I have somewhat of a feel for what I am getting myself into but wanted to get some feedback on the following questions.

1. What are the chances of someone matching straight thru into Air Force Anesthesiology after medical school? Can you give me an idea of the current number of spots v applicants?
2. Do you apply for AF anes residency while in the 4th year or during the internship year?
3. If I do a 4 year residency after taking a 3 year scholorship, do I then owe 4 years or 3 years? My recruiter insist on 3 years.
4. Will graduating with a DO from Nova make me less competitive in the matching process?

Please only respond if you know the answer. Thanks.

Curious, why did you rule out the other service options?

1) The Air Force only has one program for Anesthesiology (joint with the Army at BAMC). From what I can recall from my short time down there, some of the residents were straight through, others were Flight Surgeons first. The Air Force does also send some people to train in the civilian world. Bottom line, however, if you go Air Force, you should be very comfortable with the distinct possibility that you will end up doing a GMO/Flight Surgery tour for 1-3 years after internship before being allowed to return to residency (there are several people on this forum that had that experience). However, it is difficult to tell what will happen by the time you apply for residency. Maybe they will finally be rid of GMO tours (unlikely, as all services were told to get rid of these back in the 1990s, yet they are still around in force).

2) I believe that they apply the same way as the Army, so you will apply during your fourth year. If you don't match, you will reapply during your intern year (then, FS).

3) For a 3 year scholarship and a 4 (really, 3+1) year residency, you will owe three years. Anesthesiology residency itself is only 3 years, as internship does not count toward service obligation.

4) Graduating with a DO would not make you any less competitive in the Army, I do not imagine that it would in the Air Force. If you get civilian deferrment, then the same rules about DOs in the civilian world apply (so, take USMLE in case they grant you deferrment).

 

[NK1Positive]

3) For a 3 year scholarship and a 4 (really, 3+1) year residency, you will owe three years. Anesthesiology residency itself is only 3 years, as internship does not count toward service obligation.

I didn't realize that internship didn't count towards the service obligation.. I might have to reconsider some things. Thanks!

 

[pgg]

Moving to military medicine forum.

My personal recommendation is 'probably no' to HPSP and 'definitely no' to AF HPSP. FAP is another consideration. This issue is exhaustively and repeatedly hashed here in the milmed forum.

 

[J-Rad]

Absolutely critical question that should be answered by OP: why did you rule out the other service options (or FAP or no military)?

Fixed that.

PS: Oh, the irony of Sethco's post being quoted. How did he enjoy his time in the AF, again? Probably as much as MedicalCorpse did (OP, you should search for that guys posts, too)

 

[tronad]

I'm an Air Force Anesthesiologist and did a 3-yr HPSP scholarship.

Something to consider is deployment. Although things can change, Air Force anesthesiologists are sometimes deployed every 18-24 months (for 6 months at a time). Army anesthesiologists are currently deploying less frequently, usually more than 4+ yrs between deployments. Wasn't always the case and deployment environment could change between the two services. In past Air Force did 4 month deployments and Army 6 month, but they are the same length now. Who knows what the future will be, though.

Also varies on the specialty. For example, for a pediatrician currently Air Force might be a good option. I know of many Army pediatricians who have deployed for a year. But in the Air Force pediatricians don't deploy much at all and if they do it is never that long.

There are might be more places you can do you your payback time in the Army than in the Air Force, but I am not sure. I am not in the Army.

In the Air Force your options are currently: San Antonio, Texas; Hampton, Virginia; Fairfield, California; Maryland; Dayton, Ohio; Nebraska, Las Vegas, Nevada; Florida; Anchorage, Alaska; Biloxi, Mississippi; England; Germany; Japan.

As far as residency goes, the SAUSHEC combined program (only Air Force program, but you can still do a civilian program) the exact same program for Air Force and Army anesthesiology residents.

 

[tronad]

I received a 3-year HPSP scholarship and I have a 3-year active duty payback commitment. I got the 3-year HPSP over the 4-year because I missed the 4-year application deadline. I probably would've taken the 4-year and would've still been fine.

If I was to go back and do it again, I'd still do the 3-yr HPSP. Also, insurance has worked out for us with Tricare being very good for autism therapy services for my special needs dependent. It is a tough decision to make, but so far it has worked out for me and my family. It is great to have very little debt.

 

[EmmaNemma]

Moving to military medicine forum.

My personal recommendation is 'probably no' to HPSP and 'definitely no' to AF HPSP. FAP is another consideration. This issue is exhaustively and repeatedly hashed here in the milmed forum.

PGG - What is FAP? I am not familiar with that program. Thanks.

 

[psychbender]

PGG - What is FAP? I am not familiar with that program. Thanks.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=189443

Also check the stickies at the top. FAP (Financial Assistance Program) is where the military supplements your income during your civilian residency, in return for a service obligation after training. You can think of it like this: FAP is to residency, as HPSP is to med school, as ROTC is to college.

 

[EmmaNemma]

To answer some of the questions asked, I ruled out the Navy because of the certainty of a GMO tour. The army flat out would not give me the medical waiver I needed. The Air Force has been working on my medical waiver for a long time now and it finally went thru. However, when I go to MEPS, the only scholorships they have remaining are 3 year.

FAP sounds interesting. However, I am looking at enormous costs to go to medical school. I am not really concerned about living during residency. My first year at Nova will run me 79-85K depending on whether or not I live on campus. Also, Nova is raising tuition rates 5-11% per year. I could be looking at 500K in debt at the end of a 4 year residency.

Out of curiousity, is dermatology out of the question in the Air Force? That is my other interest. Thanks.

 

[narcusprince]

To answer some of the questions asked, I ruled out the Navy because of the certainty of a GMO tour. The army flat out would not give me the medical waiver I needed. The Air Force has been working on my medical waiver for a long time now and it finally went thru. However, when I go to MEPS, the only scholorships they have remaining are 3 year.

FAP sounds interesting. However, I am looking at enormous costs to go to medical school. I am not really concerned about living during residency. My first year at Nova will run me 79-85K depending on whether or not I live on campus. Also, Nova is raising tuition rates 5-11% per year. I could be looking at 500K in debt at the end of a 4 year residency.

Out of curiousity, is dermatology out of the question in the Air Force? That is my other interest. Thanks.

Why NOVA, I have a friend whom went to NOVA and is now in anesthesia residency with me. 500K in debt may not be managable in todays envirorment. If your 500k in debt FAP would do little to keep you afloat. What state are you from? Why not try a state college? I know the push to get in med school can be overwealming but seriously look at the math with the current salaries. Also, what if you cannot get into an anesthesia residency your out a ton of money. Also, look into the navy if your a strong resident an applicant you can go into anesthesia straight through, I have.

 

[EmmaNemma]

Why NOVA, I have a friend whom went to NOVA and is now in anesthesia residency with me. 500K in debt may not be managable in todays envirorment. If your 500k in debt FAP would do little to keep you afloat. What state are you from? Why not try a state college? I know the push to get in med school can be overwealming but seriously look at the math with the current salaries. Also, what if you cannot get into an anesthesia residency your out a ton of money. Also, look into the navy if your a strong resident an applicant you can go into anesthesia straight through, I have.

It is a little late for me to try and change my decision on medical schools since I am starting in 2 months.

You are the first person, besides the Navy recruiter that I spoke with, who has said that it is possible to go straight thru into anesthesia in the Navy.

 

[kingcer0x]

It is a little late for me to try and change my decision on medical schools since I am starting in 2 months.

You are the first person, besides the Navy recruiter that I spoke with, who has said that it is possible to go straight thru into anesthesia in the Navy.

There are always exceptions.

Everyone I talked to in the Navy said its possible but not likely to train straight through in a Navy. I met an intern at C4 who was going out as a GMO before his anesthesia residency. He was a solid applicant. Its a 50/50 shot in the AF. It all depends on 'points' assigned at the GME board. Grades, boards, LOEs only go so much. You get points for prior service, medial or non medical, and a 'fudge' factor called something like suitability for military service or something. So if all the stars align and they think you are a good fit for their military program, yeah you can train straight through.

Just beware; its kind of disheartening when civilian programs want you, your collagues are all matching, and you get tracked towards an unmatched GMO. Causes a fair bit of depression initially (which subsides after the horror of internship starts).

 

[tronad]

Out of curiousity, is dermatology out of the question in the Air Force? That is my other interest. Thanks.

Not necessarily. The match process is competitive for some of the more desirable specialties, including derm. In Air Force, it is fairly common for people to do a two-year flight surgery tour (akin to GMO tour) before doing derm. Hard to make a decision on the HPSP scholarship based on what specialty you want to do. A lot of unknowns. Regarding anesthesia, there are many good applicants who don't get accepted that obviously would civilian. Just because of only a select number of slots available. But, number of slots increases and decreases every yr so hard to predict. Interest also varies, some years a good percentage match straight into residency. I know of many who match straight into residency with many Air Force specialties, but others who are disappointed. If you do accept HPSP, just work hard and be involved in med school to give yourself the best chance for whatever specialty you end up choosing. Everyone I have spoken to have not regretted doing the flight surgery tours. They enjoyed the nice lifestyle and the experience it gave them. Flight surgery is usually doing primary care during the week and oftentimes one day a week you get some flight time in--flying in jets or other planes.

 

[AF M4]

Flight surgeon tours vary WILDLY based on where you are stationed and who your commanders happen to be. Caveat emptor.

 

[IlDestriero]

The only way you could match straight through in the Navy is if the number of available residency slots exceeds the (significant) number of GMO applicants to anesthesia. Even if you walk on water, it would be nearly impossible to take a slot away from a reasonable GMO applicant. That could actually happen now because they have fewer GMOs currently in the pipeline. A few years ago they did not fill all the scholarships available. Funny how war makes someone rethink electively joining the military. That will not be the case 5 years from now when you want a spot.

 

[kingcer0x]

Flight surgeon tours vary WILDLY based on where you are stationed and who your commanders happen to be. Caveat emptor.

Agree 100%. I have been pretty lucky to get SME jobs in both my assignments.