Air Force Anesthesia

[medallion]

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Anyone know about the competitiveness of getting a spot in AF anesthesia out of Medical School? Seems like there is plenty of talk about prior service and flight surgeons taking competitive spots across the board. Anyone know real numbers?

I am doing AF HPSP at a top 30 med school with a Step 1 score greater than 75 percentile of students matching to anesthesia nationally. I also am a first author of a peer-reviewed article (relevant for points toward AF match). I would prefer not to defer or delay my training. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[AF M4]

Anyone know about the competitiveness of getting a spot in AF anesthesia out of Medical School? Seems like there is plenty of talk about prior service and flight surgeons taking competitive spots across the board. Anyone know real numbers?

I am doing AF HPSP at a top 30 med school with a Step 1 score greater than 75 percentile of students matching to anesthesia nationally. I also am a first author of a peer-reviewed article (relevant for points toward AF match). I would prefer not to defer or delay my training. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

"Prefer not to defer or delay my training." Heh. Welcome to the frickin' club. Your t-shirt and coffee mug are right over here.

Seriously though, numbers are difficult to come by. Anesthesia tends to rank as one of the more competitive specialties in the AF simply because of the low supply of slots. Another very significant factor is that the first wave of HPSPers who experienced the Great GMO Screwjob of 2007 are finally reaching the point where they can re-apply for a residency this year. If you've gotten ahold of one of those point scales for the selection board, then you know that it doesn't matter what you do in med school compared to someone who's actually been out there working in milmed for a couple years.

If you really want a specific answer to your question, call AFPC and ask. They'll give you a kind of answer.

Unfortunately you will not be able to answer your true question through the divination of whatever numbers end up getting tossed at you. In a couple of months you'll either match or you won't, and you should be prepared for either outcome.

Good luck.

 

[bogatyr]

Anyone know about the competitiveness of getting a spot in AF anesthesia out of Medical School? Seems like there is plenty of talk about prior service and flight surgeons taking competitive spots across the board. Anyone know real numbers?

I am doing AF HPSP at a top 30 med school with a Step 1 score greater than 75 percentile of students matching to anesthesia nationally. I also am a first author of a peer-reviewed article (relevant for points toward AF match). I would prefer not to defer or delay my training. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Do a rotation at Wilford Hall, work hard, impress people, and you'll have no problem going straight through.

 

[sethco]

Do a rotation at Wilford Hall, work hard, impress people, and you'll have no problem going straight through.

😕

Are you the PD over at Wilford Hall? Do you have any first hand knowledge on this? Just curious.

 

[AF M4]

😕

Are you the PD over at Wilford Hall? Do you have any first hand knowledge on this? Just curious.

I have first-hand knowledge of this. And in order of importance, the influence of factors as to whether you match in the .mil goes something like this:

1. Number of GMOs needed that year
2. Number of GMOs re-applying to the specialty you are
3. Number of slots in that specialty that year (mil and deferred)

...

13. The phase of the moon
14. Your zodiac sign
15. Factors you control: i.e., board scores, rotation grades, etc.

 

[sethco]

I have first-hand knowledge of this. And in order of importance, the influence of factors as to whether you match in the .mil goes something like this:

1. Number of GMOs needed that year
2. Number of GMOs re-applying to the specialty you are
3. Number of slots in that specialty that year (mil and deferred)

...

13. The phase of the moon
14. Your zodiac sign
15. Factors you control: i.e., board scores, rotation grades, etc.

As do I, which is why I am wondering why Bogatyr can make a blanket statement such as "you'll have no problem going straight through".

Grades, research experience/published articles, and board scores are kind of irrelevant when it is compared to the "GMO factor"

 

[IgD]

...If you've gotten ahold of one of those point scales for the selection board, then you know that it doesn't matter what you do in med school compared to someone who's actually been out there working in milmed for a couple years.

I really think there is some truth to the notion that an applicant has to get in a position where they are "owed" residency training or fellowship.

 

[AF M4]

I really think there is some truth to the notion that an applicant has to get in a position where they are "owed" residency training or fellowship.

Heh, yeah, exactly. As opposed to simply going ahead and allowing medical students and GMOs to be trained to a level where they would actually be regarded as competent enough to practice medicine in more than half the states in the union, we are going to make it so they have to work as a one-year wonder for awhile until they "deserve" to be trained to a board-certifiable level of competence. In the meantime they can see active duty members, who usually won't know the difference.

Cough.

 

[AF M4]

As do I, which is why I am wondering why Bogatyr can make a blanket statement such as "you'll have no problem going straight through".
Grades, research experience/published articles, and board scores are kind of irrelevant when it is compared to the "GMO factor"

Yep, pretty sure that poster has no idea what he's talking about. Probably a med stud regurgitating the usual fairy tale heard from another med stud, recruiter or PD.

But they shall learn the truth of things soon, oh yes, they shall learn.

Bwahahaha.

 

[medallion]

Thanks everyone for just confirming the ambiguity surrounding the whole match AF process. I think the meat of my question comes down to understanding the HPERB residency list. I have seen the following question posted elsewhere but not really answered/asked very well:

If there are 5 spots at SAUSHEC listed at 48 mos, why would GMOs compete for these? They will have completed internship and only need 36 mos towards GAS. It seems they would only be competing for the 3 PGY2 spots. Reasonable?

While I appreciate the "hate on med student fairy tales" sensibility, I am trying not to be unreasonably pessimistic either. If someone has the answer that I'm just silly to think GMO/FS candidates would not compete for these spots, can that enlightened one explain why the time alloted for training would not add up?

 

[AF M4]

Thanks everyone for just confirming the ambiguity surrounding the whole match AF process. I think the meat of my question comes down to understanding the HPERB residency list. I have seen the following question posted elsewhere but not really answered/asked very well:

If there are 5 spots at SAUSHEC listed at 48 mos, why would GMOs compete for these? They will have completed internship and only need 36 mos towards GAS. It seems they would only be competing for the 3 PGY2 spots. Reasonable?

While I appreciate the "hate on med student fairy tales" sensibility, I am trying not to be unreasonably pessimistic either. If someone has the answer that I'm just silly to think GMO/FS candidates would not compete for these spots, can that enlightened one explain why the time alloted for training would not add up?

Reasonable question. I've heard stories about PDs trying to hold spots for medical students only, but those are "third cousin from your friend's sister who knows a guy" type stories, and strictly hearsay. Those residency lists are very fluid, and trying to read the tea leaves in whatever numbers they throw up there will only lead to confusion and frustration. My advice? Give the program coordinator (not the director) a call and ask. No one's going to schwack you for it, and the answer you get will probably have a better chance of being closer to the truth the theories you'll get on internet forums.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

On a semi-related note, what are the odds of doing an anesthesia residency and going the FAP route? Or are anesthesia slots usually filled by USUHS- and HPSP-ers?

 

[NavyFP]

On a semi-related note, what are the odds of doing an anesthesia residency and going the FAP route? Or are anesthesia slots usually filled by USUHS- and HPSP-ers?

Just to make sure we are on the same page.

FAP is for individuals training in a civilian program who agree to serve on active duty after completetion of that residency. FAP is usually reserved for individuals without affiliation with the military although some HPSP students who have been given full deferments have been accepted into the program.

Military Anesthesia residents (either HPSP or USUHS) are on active duty and thus not eligible for FAP.

IF you are a civilian anesthesia resident AND you wish to participate in FAP, it is likely that you would be offered a position. FAP typically has unused quotas every year, and Anesthesia is a specialty needed by the services.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Just to make sure we are on the same page.

FAP is for individuals training in a civilian program who agree to serve on active duty after completetion of that residency. FAP is usually reserved for individuals without affiliation with the military although some HPSP students who have been given full deferments have been accepted into the program.

Military Anesthesia residents (either HPSP or USUHS) are on active duty and thus not eligible for FAP.

IF you are a civilian anesthesia resident AND you wish to participate in FAP, it is likely that you would be offered a position. FAP typically has unused quotas every year, and Anesthesia is a specialty needed by the services.

Yep, same page. I mentioned the USUHS and HPSP students just because I was curious if maybe some specialty quotas are filled from "within" and therefore FAP docs were not needed. I presumed that maybe there was a need for anesthesiologists based on the need for surgeons and the fact that civilian anesthesiologists are pretty well-compensated, but I thought I'd ask people a little more in the know. Thanks for the reply.

 

[NavyFP]

Yep, same page. I mentioned the USUHS and HPSP students just because I was curious if maybe some specialty quotas are filled from "within" and therefore FAP docs were not needed. I presumed that maybe there was a need for anesthesiologists based on the need for surgeons and the fact that civilian anesthesiologists are pretty well-compensated, but I thought I'd ask people a little more in the know. Thanks for the reply.

I see. It can impact quotas, but usually doesn't. For something like anesthesia, the military is typically short and will always take 1 more. They would start to cut FAP quotas if anesthesia manning stayed above 100% for 2-3 years (not likely soon).

 

[medallion]

The official line: Those 5 spots at SAUSHEC and however many deferrals for Anesthesia are open for competition among medical students and those who are in their intern year. It was emphasized that it is very competitive but a few medical students do get spots (against the odds). I was of course encouraged to excel on ADTs and wait to the last minute to schedule them (note for the competition out there). It certainly seems like badness not to match though.

A thing that was made painfully clear to me: If you fail to match for the Anesthesia deferral spots, you are not allowed to apply for a civilian Anesthesia residency. You might not even get a military internship and have to look for a single intern year in the civilian world.

But I am hopeful.