Alarming posts on dentaltown about tuition

[Realitydentalstudent]

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These practicing dentists give their opinion
All these posts are just from page 1 of a 17 page thread

http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?a=11&s=2&f=2656&t=230828&g=1&st=dental student debt

"for 500k it is NOT worth it, imo"

"Education used to be the way to set yourself up for life and get out of poverty. I did it, but came out only owing $112,000....I thought that amount was crazy at the time. I have a good life now because of the field I chose, but at $500,000, there is almost no way it can be done. That amount of debt is crushing. You would be better off starting your own company....plumber, IT, something without the ridiculous cost of dental school these days. "

"for years it seemed the cost of education was nearly equal to to average salary. My first year out in 1984 I earned 45,000 and I owed $40000. Now the cost is 3-5 times the average annual salary. Those numbers make it hard to make a good living. And there is downward pressure on fees with more government involvement. If you are bright enough for dentistry, you are bright enough for a lot of other fields. Up until a few years back I always encouraged the young to pursue a great career in dentistry. I don't anymore. Up to $200000 would work."

"$500k imho is too much money. You can start your own business doing many other things. Unless your heart is truly set on dentistry. In which case I would find another route to do it without that price tag."

"For 500k in debt, there's no doubt I'd go the military route. It's near impossible to recover from 500k in student loan debt. Like phil said, that doesn't include a house nor practice. Good luck."

"In summary, I would highly recommend dental school, but only if you can find a way to borrow less by utilizing the suggestions above. I would personally avoid borrowing more than 350k if possible (<300 would be ideal)"

"NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I SPEND $500,000 on a dental education.

I think up to $300,000 is do-able.....a struggle but do-able"

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

"So when you take a hard look at it, I find it very hard to believe that dentistry is the profession for smart students looking to earn a decent salary throughout a career. At $500,000 in loans, plus practice loan debt, you are basically "underwater" on your loans. "

 

[Digitalangel]

so then what do we do? set out to get into our in-state school and reapply as necessary until we get in? just avoid private/oos schools all together?? consider another healthcare related career?

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

so then what do we do? set out to get into our in-state school and reapply as necessary until we get in? just avoid private/oos schools all together?? consider another healthcare related career?

I don't know the solution. Don't shoot the messenger. But all the solutions you provided are viable.

 

[customx]

Look into the military, or boost your application and reapply to public schools

 

[Daneosaurus]

Or know that you will be able to service these loans. It may take longer for some than others, but you WILL be able to pay it off.

 

[yeslek88]

Because if I wasn't going to go to dental school I would instead ask for a private loan to start my own plumbing business. Naturally.

 

[Greyangel6]

Even with state school, tuition is still very high. Times have changed. I guess one of the things you can do is to adjust your expectations and move forward accordingly. Or maybe grow a money tree, or sell that extra kidney that you have... haha *grim face*

 

[asusundevilll]

So annoying when ppl say start a business with 400k. Who's going to give you a $400,000 loan?!?

 

[Kayaker89]

Marry an engineer, or someone making a desent salary with little debt, it can be serviceable that way

 

[Kayaker89]

Also look into doing a loan repayment job, they don't pay as much as d school would cost year for year but you can make a good salary and get money toward loans, I think this is the way it's headed, students will be so stacked with debt its almost a must. Hopefully the government allocates more money toward these programs

 

[keyvdent]

I agree with the op. 400-500 in school loans is way too much, especially with 7% or whatever interest. I think we will see lots of dentist struggling in the future. After 8 years of college do you really want the average house,car,lifestyle? I think most people will only make around 120-150 in the future, of course some will make higher, but most i bet wont.

400-500 @ 7% is like 800K after 20 years. Plus an above average house, car, lifestyle. After tax on the 120 k salary, I think you wont be living much better than the average person. you can say you will make more after you buy a practice,but I think banks will be weary of lending someone more money after they are >500 k in the hole already, especially if other dentist start struggling. I know this wont apply to all people, but I bet most will hover around the average ( that's why its an average).

I made my cut off at 250k, and luckily I worked hard enough in undergrad to make that an option today, even out of state. But that's just my opinion, Good luck in whatever you choose. Lastly, I wouldn't feel very good about relying on the gov. to bail you out with paye or whatever, the gov. has some issues at the moment.

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

Basically my advice is know what you are getting into. Don't expect to live like the dentists of today when you are 500k in debt. If the laid back lifestyle and money is what attracts you to this profession, which is honestly the reason why majority of people choose dentistry, then run. Quick.

 

[jeffk805dent]

I agree with the op. 400-500 in school loans is way too much, especially with 7% or whatever interest. I think we will see lots of dentist struggling in the future. After 8 years of college do you really want the average house,car,lifestyle? I think most people will only make around 120-150 in the future, of course some will make higher, but most i bet wont.

400-500 @ 7% is like 800K after 20 years. Plus an above average house, car, lifestyle. After tax on the 120 k salary, I think you wont be living much better than the average person. you can say you will make more after you buy a practice,but I think banks will be weary of lending someone more money after they are >500 k in the hole already, especially if other dentist start struggling. I know this wont apply to all people, but I bet most will hover around the average ( that's why its an average).

I made my cut off at 250k, and luckily I worked hard enough in undergrad to make that an option today, even out of state. But that's just my opinion, Good luck in whatever you choose. Lastly, I wouldn't feel very good about relying on the gov. to bail you out with paye or whatever, the gov. has some issues at the moment.

since tuition doesnt seem like its going to drop anytime soon, here is what could happen

1.) Retirement doesnt exist in the future, work till you die and if you still have loans, social security savings get taken

2.) people move to other countries to work to avoid loans (say goodbye to family/friends in the US though), I seriously doubt the government will hunt you down considering they have other debts to collect on.

As a young dentist, I hope these worst case scenarios dont come true, doesnt hurt to hope for the best.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

why is this ''alarming'' to anyone? you pull out a half a mill for loans+interest. what do you expect...it just blows my mind as to why people are starting to second guess everything AFTER the fact. it doesn't take a seasoned dentist to tell you that putting yourself in debt that deep before your professional life has begun isn't worth it.

+1 to whoever said the thing about getting another 500k loan to open up a practice. you wanna spend the prime of your life working off a million dollar debt all while trying to raise a family and live a seemingly normal life?

 

[DentalFox]

I feel that if you are not good with managing money, then you might be setting yourself up for failure. However, with such a huge debt, I feel schools should take the time to talk to students about money management and ways to reduce debt after graduation. The debt can be paid off, but each individual needs to come up with a strategy. Having a child right after graduation would probably be a dumb idea financially. Buying a used honda civic instead of the 2020 BMW I9, a good idea financially.

 

[keyvdent]

I agree with the three post above me. Here is where I think the big problem is, you cannot compare dentist that graduated ten plus years ago to today's dentist graduating. Look up threads in 2003, those guys were facing loans around like 150 , and i bet those interest rates were lower too. Predents see these older dentist and see how happy and financially well they are, well they graduated in a time when the mountain to climb wasn't 3 times as high. That kind of debt severely limits your opportunities in the real world.

Dont get me wrong, There are alot of good things in dentistry besides money, but if it were me and I was looking at 250+, I bet I could find something else. In my opinion, in the next 10-20 years there will be more people who "lose" with dentistry that it will help stabilize tuition ( and # of dentist) as less students will be applying. All I can say is be wise with your choices,

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

I agree with the three post above me. Here is where I think the big problem is, you cannot compare dentist that graduated ten plus years ago to today's dentist graduating. Look up threads in 2003, those guys were facing loans around like 150 , and i bet those interest rates were lower too. Predents see these older dentist and see how happy and financially well they are, well they graduated in a time when the mountain to climb wasn't 3 times as high. That kind of debt severely limits your opportunities in the real world.

Dont get me wrong, There are alot of good things in dentistry besides money, but if it were me and I was looking at 250+, I bet I could find something else. In my opinion, in the next 10-20 years there will be more people who "lose" with dentistry that it will help stabilize tuition ( and # of dentist) as less students will be applying. All I can say is be wise with your choices,

Good post. Yes I see eventually less and less students applying in the future as stories of new graduates struggling start to become the norm. This will mean that many dental schools will close, the private ones will be the first to go. A lot of dental schools closed down in the 70s or 80s due to lack of applicants, this cycle could repeat.

 

[DentalFox]

Good post. Yes I see eventually less and less students applying in the future as stories of new graduates struggling start to become the norm. This will mean that many dental schools will close, the private ones will be the first to go. A lot of dental schools closed down in the 70s or 80s due to lack of applicants, this cycle could repeat.

This will also mean that we can expect a few schools to close down.

 

[Daneosaurus]

This will also mean that we can expect a few schools to close down.

That is exactly what happened in the 80's...and they paid NOTHING in comparison for school.

 

[keyvdent]

Funny thing about cycles, is that they tend to repeat themselves. In my opinion there are three main reasons for this ridiculous rise in tuition over the last ten years. 1 popularity of a "dr" job for financial security in an uncertain future. 2. Federal loans are basically unlimited, there is a reason 90% of students have federal loans, banks would go under if all those loans started to default. 3. Greedy schools taking advantage of #1&2, raising the cost everywhere.

 

[keyvdent]

Honestly tho, has technology and cost increases so much in ten years where dental school goes from 150K to 350 K. I just dont get it. For example, 100 student class at a 60 k a year tuition/fees= 6 million. times that by 4 classes a time= 24 million dollars a year, every year. at an average school". Half those kids arne't even in the clinic to justify "clinic material cost", also those patients probably pay enough just to cover the cost of materials. And don't tell me that it's for Facility upgrades, because a good portion of schools out there have pretty dated equipment. So where do all those millions go every year? I know it teachers get paid well, but geez not that well.

 

[panmit]

Honestly tho, has technology and cost increases so much in ten years where dental school goes from 150K to 350 K. I just dont get it. For example, 100 student class at a 60 k a year tuition/fees= 6 million. times that by 4 classes a time= 24 million dollars a year, every year. at an average school". Half those kids arne't even in the clinic to justify "clinic material cost", also those patients probably pay enough just to cover the cost of materials. And don't tell me that it's for Facility upgrades, because a good portion of schools out there have pretty dated equipment. So where do all those millions go every year? I know it teachers get paid well, but geez not that well.

I asked a faculty member this question. They said majority goes to Instruction and student support. In addition, it goes towards research funding, scholarships, public service, building infrastructure, maintenance, etc.

 

[DentalFox]

Funny thing about cycles, is that they tend to repeat themselves. In my opinion there are three main reasons for this ridiculous rise in tuition over the last ten years. 1 popularity of a "dr" job for financial security in an uncertain future. 2. Federal loans are basically unlimited, there is a reason 90% of students have federal loans, banks would go under if all those loans started to default. 3. Greedy schools taking advantage of #1&2, raising the cost everywhere.

A lot of schools are having issues with the number of students that default on their loans. Well, if AIG can get bailed out, so can I right?

 

[Bis-GMA111]

well, a lot of the time people are so ''pot invested'' in the profession that pursuing anything else is pointless. what does that mean? they'll be willing to pay anything to achieve their goals. dental schools see that and they pull em all in. dental school is a business too, after all.

also remember, we're the generation that cares more about ''happiness'' over anything else (yes that includes material wealth).

regarding the whole 80s dental school debacle, i've heard from professors that it stemmed from 1. mismanagement 2. talk of an anti-caries rinse that would wipe caries out completely 3. just a general disregard for the profession

 

[yeslek88]

At the very least it will greatly hinder our ability to

1. Specialize
2. Own a practice
3. Own a home or any other "luxuries"
4. Have a large wedding or start a family

At least for the first few years out of school. If you're willing to move and work in an underserved area and maybe do some sort of loan repayment program it will make the debt much more manageable.

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

well, a lot of the time people are so ''pot invested'' in the profession that pursuing anything else is pointless. what does that mean? they'll be willing to pay anything to achieve their goals. dental schools see that and they pull em all in. dental school is a business too, after all.

also remember, we're the generation that cares more about ''happiness'' over anything else (yes that includes material wealth).

regarding the whole 80s dental school debacle, i've heard from professors that it stemmed from 1. mismanagement 2. talk of an anti-caries rinse that would wipe caries out completely 3. just a general disregard for the profession

BINGO. In private schools charging ridiculous amounts, they also have masters programs for people just as you described: Dentistry at all costs.

3.0 gpa? No problem, just give us 50k COA and now you'll have a shot at your dream career.
Except that 50k will be 80k after they graduate dental school. Which means what? You are 600k in debt by the time you graduate? Ludicrous.

Its hard to believe a smart person who wants to earn a good salary through a career would make a decision like that.

 

[DentalFox]

BINGO. In private schools charging ridiculous amounts, they also have masters programs for people just as you described: Dentistry at all costs.

3.0 gpa? No problem, just give us 50k COA and now you'll have a shot at your dream career.
Except that 50k will be 80k after they graduate dental school. Which means what? You are 600k in debt by the time you graduate? Ludicrous.

Its hard to believe a smart person who wants to earn a good salary through a career would make a decision like that.

I have my masters degree and paid about 36K for it (I stayed in my state/city). When I finish dental school, my debt should be about 300k. However, I have friends who are willing to take on the 400-500k loan. It does concern me because I feel as if it's becoming the norm... A lot of the students in my program simply say, "I'll pay it off in time" or "Once I open up a few practices, it won't be hard to pay it off." I'm not sure where the idea of paying back such a large sum of money can will be easy. It's very concerning.

 

[MasterDental]

What people fail to realize is the interest. For example, I already crunched some numbers , and I'm borrowing around 333 K. However in a 10 year repayment plan , I'm gonna end up repaying about 570K, and doing like 4.7k payments every month. So people fail to realize that I'm repayment plan , this can add up like 200K in interest alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bis-GMA111]

i mean, ok, so dentists have the lowest default on loans (something like 97% of dentists pay loans back on time) so of course paying back 500k+getting another million for a business loan should be no problem, right? 😉