Aliens in the ER

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sjdcMD

sjdcMD

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Something that has really bothering me for the past two years as a EMP. Patient comes in with child and reports child not eating in two days. Pt saw pcp a day ago and diagnosed with strep, sent child home and wrote for a zpak. One day after the pt took one dose of meds and it isnt resolved they think its a good idea to come to the ER with six kids. Also asking me if i am going to give the pt something for her throat. Your primary already did. Pt mother why not? Well maybe if you let the medication do its job and take the correct dose and at correct time over the next week you will see results. Pt but shes not eating. Well she does have some discomfort and unable to eat any solid food then go to liquid because i do not want to see you here tomorrow for dehydration. Discharged Pt at that point. Well what do you know 15 mins later the mother checks three of the other children in for the same thing. And of course they are all on medicaid. The admission girl asked the mother for her social, WELL what do you know. Pt states no social. I can't comprehend that you can come to america and not become a citizen and get health benefits and everything else without being a citizen. Its totall abuse of our system. They have insurance that i pay for go to you pcp not my ER. They act like nothing is wrong and they have every right to be here when i have a GI Bleed,AFIB,Pneumonia,COPD. I am just tired of it. They need to medicaid pt pay a copay upfront so it deters them from using the ER as a primary.
Sorry guys i had to let it out.
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Welcome to my life.

As a paramedic, I get to bring these people to you, and think the same things you are thinking. It also kills me when they can't even function at a basic level in our society, due to a language barrier. But they have the damn Medicaid card.

Also, my city seems to be a gathering point for people from far flung points of the globe who speak languages that we can't even identify, much less speak. Thank God we're paying their way, though!
 
Hm. I was expecting something different when I clicked on this thread . . .

Disappointed

three-gray-aliens-josh-crockett.jpg
 
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sjdcMD said:
Something that has really bothering me for the past two years as a EMP. Patient comes in with child and reports child not eating in two days. Pt saw pcp a day ago and diagnosed with strep, sent child home and wrote for a zpak. One day after the pt took one dose of meds and it isnt resolved they think its a good idea to come to the ER with six kids. Also asking me if i am going to give the pt something for her throat. Your primary already did. Pt mother why not? Well maybe if you let the medication do its job and take the correct dose and at correct time over the next week you will see results. Pt but shes not eating. Well she does have some discomfort and unable to eat any solid food then go to liquid because i do not want to see you here tomorrow for dehydration. Discharged Pt at that point. Well what do you know 15 mins later the mother checks three of the other children in for the same thing. And of course they are all on medicaid. The admission girl asked the mother for her social, WELL what do you know. Pt states no social. I can't comprehend that you can come to america and not become a citizen and get health benefits and everything else without being a citizen. Its totall abuse of our system. They have insurance that i pay for go to you pcp not my ER. They act like nothing is wrong and they have every right to be here when i have a GI Bleed,AFIB,Pneumonia,COPD. I am just tired of it. They need to medicaid pt pay a copay upfront so it deters them from using the ER as a primary.
Sorry guys i had to let it out.
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I'm not sure it's a money issue so much as a cultural issue. For certain ethnicities it's not unusual to see parents bring the kid in every night until the symptoms are gone. Even with explanations that it needs to run its course, you can expect 3 ED visits per URI.
 
I posted 5 or 6 years ago (maybe more) about how I wanted to find the person that put up a commercial on Univision and SIN saying, at 2am, "Ahora es el tiempo por una visita - sin cita - a la sala de emergencia!"
 
Come to arizona.. I will say this it doesnt annoy me like it did but the family plan regardless of complaint is my least favorite. Ill take anything over seeing 4 people in one room with URI or some other BS complaint.
 
No comment, other then I support SB 1070.
 
Farmer2DO said:
Welcome to my life.

As a paramedic, I get to bring these people to you, and think the same things you are thinking. It also kills me when they can't even function at a basic level in our society, due to a language barrier. But they have the damn Medicaid card.

Also, my city seems to be a gathering point for people from far flung points of the globe who speak languages that we can't even identify, much less speak. Thank God we're paying their way, though!
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And then tell you that you should learn to speak their language so you can communicate better with them since they're your patients.....

Come to the Southwest and work a county hospital......the L&D doesn't even bother asking for citizenship status.....and the ED has a translator per pod...
 
sjdcMD said:
Something that has really bothering me for the past two years as a EMP. Patient comes in with child and reports child not eating in two days. Pt saw pcp a day ago and diagnosed with strep, sent child home and wrote for a zpak. One day after the pt took one dose of meds and it isnt resolved they think its a good idea to come to the ER with six kids. Also asking me if i am going to give the pt something for her throat. Your primary already did. Pt mother why not? Well maybe if you let the medication do its job and take the correct dose and at correct time over the next week you will see results. Pt but shes not eating. Well she does have some discomfort and unable to eat any solid food then go to liquid because i do not want to see you here tomorrow for dehydration. Discharged Pt at that point. Well what do you know 15 mins later the mother checks three of the other children in for the same thing. And of course they are all on medicaid. The admission girl asked the mother for her social, WELL what do you know. Pt states no social. I can't comprehend that you can come to america and not become a citizen and get health benefits and everything else without being a citizen. Its totall abuse of our system. They have insurance that i pay for go to you pcp not my ER. They act like nothing is wrong and they have every right to be here when i have a GI Bleed,AFIB,Pneumonia,COPD. I am just tired of it. They need to medicaid pt pay a copay upfront so it deters them from using the ER as a primary.
Sorry guys i had to let it out.
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Just wait until your med insurance rates skyrocket because the residency hospital that employs you also provides indigent health insurance and 'forgot' to adjust the rates for cost of doing business over the past few years....since they shell out all the dough for the types of situations you are talking about to provide low cost health insurance, it has to come from somewhere....guess where --- employees/residents copays, deductables and monthly insurance rates go up....Having a baby used to cost $500 out of pocket...now it's $1500.....and that was within one year....

so not only are people paying for it through their taxes, now it's through their benefits costs also....
 
as long as they're pleasant and reasonable... i don't mind at all. i speak fluent spanish, which i learned in med school/residency. not gonna boost your PG or anything, but being able to speak the language of most of your non-english speakers in most of the US is quite rewarding to me. the multi-fers... are frustrating in any language. lots of worried well caucasian insured english speakers too...

certain countries of origin, however, seem to produce an inordinate % of rude, demanding, unrealistic patients. i won't be more specific, at the risk of sounding like a prejudiced bitch, except to say that most of them are NOT Spanish-speaking.
 
la gringa said:
certain countries of origin, however, seem to produce an inordinate % of rude, demanding, unrealistic patients. i won't be more specific, at the risk of sounding like a prejudiced bitch, except to say that most of them are NOT Spanish-speaking.
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Oooh...oooh...I know this one.

USA!
 
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sjdcMD said:
Well she does have some discomfort and unable to eat any solid food then go to liquid because i do not want to see you here tomorrow for dehydration. Discharged Pt at that point. Well what do you know 15 mins later the mother checks three of the other children in for the same thing. And of course they are all on medicaid. The admission girl asked the mother for her social, WELL what do you know. Pt states no social. I can't comprehend that you can come to america and not become a citizen and get health benefits and everything else without being a citizen. Its totall abuse of our system. They have insurance that i pay for go to you pcp not my ER. They act like nothing is wrong and they have every right to be here when i have a GI Bleed,AFIB,Pneumonia,COPD. I am just tired of it. They need to medicaid pt pay a copay upfront so it deters them from using the ER as a primary.
Sorry guys i had to let it out.
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1) It sounds like there was some poor communication at work here, maybe along with some cultural differences to bridge. Can you think of a way you could have handled this better?

2) I think there's some law somewhere that says some like this: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Dude, it sucks to have deal with this stuff, but it is immature to blame it on "alien" status when in fact it probably has to do with being uneducated, poor, and having a low health literacy.

3) There is a mixed evidence about the efficacy of increasing cost sharing. It not as simple as we wish it was.
 
la gringa said:
as long as they're pleasant and reasonable... i don't mind at all. i speak fluent spanish, which i learned in med school/residency. not gonna boost your PG or anything, but being able to speak the language of most of your non-english speakers in most of the US is quite rewarding to me. the multi-fers... are frustrating in any language. lots of worried well caucasian insured english speakers too...

certain countries of origin, however, seem to produce an inordinate % of rude, demanding, unrealistic patients. i won't be more specific, at the risk of sounding like a prejudiced bitch, except to say that most of them are NOT Spanish-speaking.
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hobbes23 said:
1) It sounds like there was some poor communication at work here, maybe along with some cultural differences to bridge. Can you think of a way you could have handled this better?

2) I think there's some law somewhere that says some like this: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Dude, it sucks to have deal with this stuff, but it is immature to blame it on "alien" status when in fact it probably has to do with being uneducated, poor, and having a low health literacy.

3) There is a mixed evidence about the efficacy of increasing cost sharing. It not as simple as we wish it was.
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Hurray for people not wallowing in racial hatred!
 
i just think it's counterproductive to be annoyed....
 
hobbes23 said:
1) It sounds like there was some poor communication at work here, maybe along with some cultural differences to bridge. Can you think of a way you could have handled this better?

2) I think there's some law somewhere that says some like this: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Dude, it sucks to have deal with this stuff, but it is immature to blame it on "alien" status when in fact it probably has to do with being uneducated, poor, and having a low health literacy.

3) There is a mixed evidence about the efficacy of increasing cost sharing. It not as simple as we wish it was.
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1) I did what was nessasary for the patient. Their pcp already started treatment, which was exaclty what i would have done. I understand the point of what i said i don't want to see you here for dehydration for tomorrow, well that is out of frustration of the situation. I want to make it clear to them that it is not okay to come for every little thing. It pulls and ties me up for other Pt MEDICAL NEEDS.
2)They were not born here. NONE of them.
3) I wish it was simple.
Its frustrating that they come here no american citizenship and recieve all the benefits when a hard working american makes to much to recieve it, i know this is a topic that will not change, and i am preaching to the choir but it pisses me off. They are illegal aliens. They want what our great country offers and they want to better themselves and make a better life im sure they will have all the finacial aid they need and then some. They want it all but will not work for it. In NJ they will pay for their housing and set them up with furniture. It makes me sick when they are not a citizen.
 
It's funny how people think they don't pay taxes when they are often the ones working in the kitchens and cleaning hotel rooms that you receive services from. Fed and state taxes come out of those paychecks. It is easy to whine and complain when you don't understand their plight. But, hey, this is America and we can say what we want, right?

I am sure I will be called a bleeding heart liberal or whatever but, growing up in Arizona, I understand the issue pretty well. It isn't always so black and white. Making broad generalizations about a group of people does not equate to educated/intelligent discussion.
 
sjdcMD said:
1) I did what was nessasary for the patient. Their pcp already started treatment, which was exaclty what i would have done. I understand the point of what i said i don't want to see you here for dehydration for tomorrow, well that is out of frustration of the situation. I want to make it clear to them that it is not okay to come for every little thing. It pulls and ties me up for other Pt MEDICAL NEEDS.
2)They were not born here. NONE of them.
3) I wish it was simple.
Its frustrating that they come here no american citizenship and recieve all the benefits when a hard working american makes to much to recieve it, i know this is a topic that will not change, and i am preaching to the choir but it pisses me off. They are illegal aliens. They want what our great country offers and they want to better themselves and make a better life im sure they will have all the finacial aid they need and then some. They want it all but will not work for it. In NJ they will pay for their housing and set them up with furniture. It makes me sick when they are not a citizen.
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It's interesting that you make the assumption that these particular people that you saw do not want to work and/or are not hard working. Did you really ask them the details of their circumstance? Did you talk to them about the challenges and difficulties they face as immigrants (illegal or otherwise)? Either you take way more of a social history than I ever have or your judgment is a little bit prejudiced.

There must be at least a little racial stereotyping involved here. I am 'an alien'. But I am white and I speak English well, so no one ever assumes that I am illegal and came to your country to mooch off the fruit of your labor. But how can they know that? I can imagine how different things would be for me if my primary language was Spanish.
 
Funny how in all of these types of threads, most of the sympathetic/bleeding heart comments seem to come from the all-too altruistic "pre-health" and "med/pharm/whatever-student" populations. The bleeding heart sentiment sure doesn't seem as frequent amongst the attendings who have to deal with these issues in "real life". Just saying.....
 
i trained at a county hospital and have been an attending for 2 yrs in a large city. there are some types of people who make me want to pull my hair out, but immigration and language status don't have anything to do w/ what aggravates me.
 
gro2001 said:
It's interesting that you make the assumption that these particular people that you saw do not want to work and/or are not hard working. Did you really ask them the details of their circumstance? Did you talk to them about the challenges and difficulties they face as immigrants (illegal or otherwise)? Either you take way more of a social history than I ever have or your judgment is a little bit prejudiced.

There must be at least a little racial stereotyping involved here. I am 'an alien'. But I am white and I speak English well, so no one ever assumes that I am illegal and came to your country to mooch off the fruit of your labor. But how can they know that? I can imagine how different things would be for me if my primary language was Spanish.
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They wouldn't have to face challenges if they were a citizen. It might take some time to become a citizen but that is what you work towards. I am not prejudice just stating what is fair and my take on the situation. They can tell if you are illegal just by asking a simple question Do you have a SS #. 85% of illegals that come in to the ER are on public assistance and medicaid. Well maybe if they didn't abuse the system i wouldn't have this take on it. But what if someone came to your country abusing every system there is and you pay for their medicaid and their check every 1st of the month how would you feel. No one can change or sway my mind into another stand on this. Working hard my whole life come here and get everything handed to you come on. I can understand a working american that needs help in time of crisis or needs to get back on thier feet.

Spyderdoc : When they get to that point, and get so frustrated that a mother just brought in her 5 kids while you are working on many real MEDICAL EMERGENCIES they will understand. Their view might slightly change.
 
rxlea said:
It's funny how people think they don't pay taxes when they are often the ones working in the kitchens and cleaning hotel rooms that you receive services from. Fed and state taxes come out of those paychecks. It is easy to whine and complain when you don't understand their plight. But, hey, this is America and we can say what we want, right?

I am sure I will be called a bleeding heart liberal or whatever but, growing up in Arizona, I understand the issue pretty well. It isn't always so black and white. Making broad generalizations about a group of people does not equate to educated/intelligent discussion.
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I'm sure that none of them are making enough money to pay any income tax anyway, even if there income were above board.
 
I'm volunteering at a free clinic in Arlington, Texas. I take pt histories and occasionally man the front desk, so I can tell you that most of the people in the clinic have no insurance (not surprising) and a large portion (80-90%) speak little to no English at all. I speak Spanish, and many friends that I have/had are/were Mexican (not Latino, Mexican), so I feel entitled to at least speak on this issue without being flamed as a RACIST (but you'll say it anyway). Here are some non-empirical points of evidence to prove my overall argument at the bottom:

1. Most Latinos that show up in the clinic work construction, janitorial, or cash-pay jobs. We have to ask for 2010 tax returns in exchange for certain meds, and more often than not there is an awkward pause and a change of subject.

2. Most kids who are raised in a straight Latino (Spanish only) home whose parents have the jobs described in #1 have less ambition to succeed in the educational hierarchy for a variety of reasons: their parents found work, so they think they can too. They may not have SS#s and therefore think they're precluded from any form of higher education/high employment.

My point is this: illegal immigrants have created a cycle of "under the radar" employment positions that lead to raising a family with little aspiration to follow the American dream; they have created a 'lost' generation of children who grow up not wanting to be all that they can be because they're afraid someone will ask about their papers.

Enforcement of the border and immigration status is a right and proper concern because of the cycle of lost families that is created when someone crosses over illegally. Don't criticize someone on this forum for pointing out the byproduct of holes in the border.

It's my hope that the cycle will stop when the next generation is born at a US hospital and receives proper credentials, but as long as the parents themselves refuse to lead their children into association with the system in general, we will continue to see invisible people in our society that drain the care/aid programs.

Final point: It was the choice of these parents to come over here in the first place and put their kids in awkward legal positions. I sympathize with those who grew up here and know nothing else (DREAM act?), but responsibility lies with those who crossed the line illegally in the first place, not the provider who reluctantly treats someone he or she knows is taking away something without paying for it.
 
GeneralVeers said:
It's "racial hatred" to be annoyed that someone is here illegally, not paying taxes, breaking the law, and stealing money from taxpayers?
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in my experience, immigrant patients are relatively thankful and polite. when i think of patients that have been disrespectful or obnoxious and demanding, it's usually the non-immigrant patient.

it's a privilege to be a physician and to hold a grip toward a particular group of patient's because they are assumed illegal immigrants says alot about your core fabric. general veers, didn't u immigrant from Canada? maybe you can go back to Canada? looks like you'll be less annoyed because you won't be seeing as many illegal immigrants. just a thought.
 
spyderdoc said:
Funny how in all of these types of threads, most of the sympathetic/bleeding heart comments seem to come from the all-too altruistic "pre-health" and "med/pharm/whatever-student" populations. The bleeding heart sentiment sure doesn't seem as frequent amongst the attendings who have to deal with these issues in "real life". Just saying.....
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You are assuming I haven't had direct experience working with this population in a medical setting just because I am a pharmacy student. In that case, you would be wrong. I've worked for a well-known institution for a number of years. I also worked in a community setting and had to deal with many of the situations described in this thread. I am not the "bleeding heart" either. I am just practical. We can complain all we want but the fact remains that they are not going away anytime soon. Turning people away from getting medical treatment is not the best approach to solving the immigration problem.
 
I was merely making an observation. Note that I did not say "all" when referring to med students/attendings.....Also, I did not make comment/judgement on the topic of discussion....So I guess I really didn't contribute anything to this thread but an observation and ruffling a few feathers. :D
 
la gringa said:
i just think it's counterproductive to be annoyed....
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If you think it is counter-productive to talk about the issue, what would you consider is a productive thing to do? Do you think we can continue to feed, clothe, and provide medical care to every impoverished illegal alien that decides to come to this country?

Do you support making them all citizens? Would you support enforcing the border?

Please answer all of the above questions so we can have the productive conversation that we obviously need, and that you seemingly want.
 
I never said that i wouldn't treat the patients. It's just crazy that people to think that it is okay for them to do this. I am not assuming that these patients are illegal. THEY ARE ILLEGAL 100%. I would never not treat a patient no matter what the circumstance is. When i first started working as a physician by myself it began to bother me to no end. It is so frustrating. And all the illegal's 90% of them work under the table so they are not contributing to our country. It will be a revolving cycle, that will not be solved. It pisses me off that my tax money is being abused right in front of my face, that is why it gets me fired up. There is no excuse in my head why they can't work to becoming a citizen. My family orginated from Italy, they did all the right things becoming a AMERICAN citizen. They didn't go under the radar not paying taxes or become a productive member of society. Just when it being abused in person it is frustrating. I just get stern with the patients and the 10 people they bring in and get free meals and paid cab ride home.
 
i never said it was counter-productive to discuss it... i said it was counter-productive to be so annoyed as to have apparent vitriol about the issue. while i have my own (rather centrist) feelings about immigration, that is not my job. i am not a politician, nor INS agent, nor a policeman. to put negative energy in that direction would just make me bitter.

what i do think:
1. i support the DREAM act... to do otherwise is to doom an entire generation of kids who had no role in their arrival here
2. anyone who commits a felony and is found to be here illegally should be deported. misdemeanors, case by case or maybe a 3 strikes sort of thing.
3. EMTALA still covers illegal immigrants, just like it covers a variety of completely useless Americans, worried well, and people who just can't be inconvenienced to see a PCP for anything
4. i think there should be a path to citizenship for those who are willing to fulfill a set of requirements - i could name my own, but again, that's beyond my purview

our profession is stressful enough without adding active hatred against a people and a problem that we are not in a position to change. i do the best i can, and keep on going.

and fwiw, in my experience, the people i see calling 911 for pregnancy tests, asking for meals, and demanding cab rides home are typically very obviously NOT "illegal".
 
la gringa said:
and fwiw, in my experience, the people i see calling 911 for pregnancy tests, asking for meals, and demanding cab rides home are typically very obviously NOT "illegal".
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That is my observation as well. I observe a much higher percentage of USA citizens that are drug addicts, manipulaters, etc. These are really the only people that really bug me...the 20% of the patient population who are simply there to score narcotics or benzos for illegitimate reasons, or who can't find a doctor who will provide it for them and expect the ER to be their dealer. Dude, don't involve me in the charade, go get it off the street!
 
our profession is stressful enough without adding active hatred against a people and a problem that we are not in a position to change. i do the best i can, and keep on going.
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Pretty much the only point that I disagree with you on. I think we are in a position to make changes. As Emergency Physicians, we should be the most prominent advocates of a big, tall, well guarded wall on the border. Place a few thousand soldiers on the border. Heck, let half the soldiers build the wall while the other half stand guard.

We should aggressively recruit LEGAL migration to help with the labor force and prosecute companies who violate the law. This should be gradually implemented over a period of years. Only then can we pick and chose who comes into the country, do background checks, collect taxes, and be able to track down illegal behavior.

In other words, we should have the same immigration policy as every other country in the world.

I don't think that it should be considered racist to defend enforcing our laws. It IS a crime to be here illegally. Why liberals can't hear that phrase without crying racist is beyond me.
 
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jdh71 said:
Hm. I was expecting something different when I clicked on this thread . . .

Disappointed
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LOL, same...

sjd... I will say you picked a thread title that is virtually impossible to NOT click on. Some I can just say "meh...doesn't sound even remotely interesting..." but that's a headline that would make the National Inquirer proud.

We all feel your pain though...

If it's any consolation...I read an article about Texas spending roughly 677 million on illegal alien healthcare, wait....that's not any consolation at all.
 
"And all the illegal's 90% of them work under the table so they are not contributing to our country. It will be a revolving cycle, that will not be solved. It pisses me off that my tax money is being abused right in front of my face, that is why it gets me fired up."
-sjcMD

Exactly the problem.


"1. i support the DREAM act... to do otherwise is to doom an entire generation of kids who had no role in their arrival here
2. anyone who commits a felony and is found to be here illegally should be deported. misdemeanors, case by case or maybe a 3 strikes sort of thing."
-la gringa

This is part of a solution, but it would have to include this:

"We should aggressively recruit LEGAL migration to help with the labor force and prosecute companies who violate the law." -Jarbacoa

Trying to catch them as they come across a fence is too expensive; making sure they don't want to come here illegally in the first place only requires the right laws.
 
Actually a better slogan might be this:

"Building a trans-continental fence: 3 billion dollars.

Utilizing drones and personnel at the border: 2 billion dollars a year.

Enacting legislation to make sure people ONLY want to come here legally: priceless."


*Numbers are guesstimates.
 
I'm an attending and immigrants who check in for minor complaints don't really bug me. As others have said everyone checks in for minor complaints and I just look upon it as a teachable moment, best not get to get stressed about the money side of things since people just need to understand how to use the health system and that's a problem with citizens as well. It comes with the territory. You don't have to give them any expensive treatment, just education, so there are lots bigger wastes of money that I see every day.

The only part that does bother me is when the patient clearly lives in the United States and cannot speak a word of English. I don't mind that they're not fluent or even that they can't carry on much of a conversation, but even when I go to visit another country for a week, I'll learn at least a few phrases. African dialect, Hindi, whatever, I will try it, because communication is important. I don't like it when I can't understand why a person is in the ER or what they want from me, and they can't say a word, just give me this stare like "what, you don't have an interpreter to follow me around and make my needs apparent?" I know Americans in other countries are certainly guilty of expecting people to speak their language and accommodate them, and that bugs me too. If you're going to live in another country it seems like the natural thing would be to learn the bare minimum in terms of language. It can be done in just a few hours. come on.

/rant
 
Funny thing here where I am is that the vast majority of hispanic/Mexican (ask them, they'll tell you they're different) people speak English. Hell, some of them don't even speak Spanish, or at least pretend not to.

When Border Patrol brings somebody in, more often than not they don't speak English though. Although one of the guys they brought in was Chinese, so I had to use the blue phone for that visit.
 
deleted. You know what screw it, I've got work tomorrow and I don't want a thread war.
 
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Illegal alien is a perfectly appropriate term. They are here illegally and alien to this country. Sugar-coating it and calling them something else won't change that.

As a LEGAL immigrant to this country it annoys me to see people skirt the system and get free goodies from the Fed and State governments. It took me the better part of 7 years to become a citizen, and to give these illegal aliens amnesty, entitlements, and schooling devalues the citizenship that I, and millions of other AMERICANS worked hard to obtain.

We should be compassionate, but not at the expense of Americans who legitimately need our services and occasionally pay taxes to support them.

Just because 80% of the world is a miserable place to live, doesn't mean we should accept with open arms everyone on humanitarian terms. If we do that, we would in turn make America a miserable place to live as well.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Illegal alien is a perfectly appropriate term. They are here illegally and alien to this country. Sugar-coating it and calling them something else won't change that.

As a LEGAL immigrant to this country it annoys me to see people skirt the system and get free goodies from the Fed and State governments. It took me the better part of 7 years to become a citizen, and to give these illegal aliens amnesty, entitlements, and schooling devalues the citizenship that I, and millions of other AMERICANS worked hard to obtain.

We should be compassionate, but not at the expense of Americans who legitimately need our services and occasionally pay taxes to support them.

Just because 80% of the world is a miserable place to live, doesn't mean we should accept with open arms everyone on humanitarian terms. If we do that, we would in turn make America a miserable place to live as well.
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:thumbup:
 
deleted. never mind, don't want to need to keep refreshing page to counter-respond. got better things to do. carry on with the latent racism.
 
Saladin MD said:
deleted. never mind, don't want to need to keep refreshing page to counter-respond. got better things to do. carry on with the latent racism.
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Because OF COURSE, if someone dislikes an illegal alien who is here illegally, working illegally, using medical care illegally, and costing taxpayers money it must be racism. What other explanation could there be?
 
GeneralVeers said:
Because OF COURSE, if someone dislikes an illegal alien who is here illegally, working illegally, using medical care illegally, and costing taxpayers money it must be racism. What other explanation could there be?
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The libbies love the term racist and scream it loudly at any one who doesn't agree with what they're saying. Then you tell them illegal isn't a race, but that does nothing. It's a shame when the vocal minority can yell and scream racism and leave the majority in a state of fear(being labeled as a racist). Let's not forget if we were in Mexico and pulled off the kind of behavior they do here we would be in a massive world of hurt, in jail or beaten half to death
 
GeneralVeers said:
Just because 80% of the world is a miserable place to live, doesn't mean we should accept with open arms everyone on humanitarian terms. If we do that, we would in turn make America a miserable place to live as well.
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Adam Carolla does a bit about this. How Mexico is a hell hole with no education, health care or infrastructure. Mexican immigrants move en mass to California and now Cali has no education, healthcare or infrastructure. Maybe they are related, maybe not...
 
HAHAH Racism, It's not, It is stating what is wrong. It's amazing that people will defend the ILLEGAL ALIENS. Stealing all the tax payers hard earned compensation. It's not like it's impossibe to get citizenship. Work hard to achieve it. It might take time but when all is said and done they wont have to "FACE PROBLEMS WITH BEING ILLEGAL ALIENS". The reason they don't go out and get citizenship is because they don't need it. They work under the table, they recieve all the public assitance including healthcare food stamps,housing, and home furnished. All without citizenship. So Hell what do they need to get an ss# for. Make it so they need citizenship to recieve all the benefits America offers. We would have so much less abuse if they implemented citizenship before any assistance. America need's to wake up on this situation. And this is not RACISM it what is fair and right.
 
i've been shocked at who is or isn't here legally on more than one occasion. like i said before... immigration status is not my job until i am told otherwise. there are plenty of useless americans out there, who pay zero taxes and act only to serve as a warning to others and make you wish there was more effective birth control out there.

i've also seen people on disability for no clear reason. one i remember vividly - hospitalized at 19 for some psych break. put on SSI. now in 30's, addicted to cocaine, still on SSI. freely admitted he had no idea why he was still on SSI.

i absolutely agree we need more legislation on immigration... but congress' lack of ability to agree on anything has led to absolutely nothing being done at the federal level. states seem to fall to one extreme or the other (MD vs AZ, for example).

there are far easier targets at the moment - like states who are starting drug testing for public aid recipients. hell i'd go after the reproductive rights of people who are on public aid... depo for dollars til you are on the right track.
 
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