Alliant CSPP - SF vs SD vs LA

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Johnny38

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I'm currently applying to Alliant CSPP and was wondering if anyone had thoughts (especially current students) of which campus they felt was best in terms of match rate, and quality of clinical training? Or does it matter at all?

I know there have been many threads posted about this topic, but I believe the most recent one may date back to 2010. I'm hoping for perhaps a more recent reflection on the topic.

I would really appreciate any insight or advice. Much thanks!

Jon

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I'm currently applying to Alliant CSPP and was wondering if anyone had thoughts (especially current students) of which campus they felt was best in terms of match rate, and quality of clinical training? Or does it matter at all?

I know there have been many threads posted about this topic, but I believe the most recent one may date back to 2010. I'm hoping for perhaps a more recent reflection on the topic.

I would really appreciate any insight or advice. Much thanks!

Jon

I'm a graduate of the Alliant-SD campus.

Avoid L.A. campus at all costs. It's a joke.

The San Diego campus is considered the best out of the system, but I was recently informed by someone involved with the campus that the SD branch may have to close their doors in 2 years. They reportedly owe the San Diego county $50,000,000 in building and land county code violations. Unless they are able to sell the campus by then or raise the money to update the campus, they reportedly may have to close the SD branch. Kaiser recently entered into a contract to buy it for $60,000,000 but backed out of it; I believe due to the code violations.

I do not have any idea what effect this will have on the total of the Alliant campuses. It could dismantle the entire Alliant system. (some SDNers can applaud now:laugh:)
 
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I'm a graduate of the Alliant-SD campus.

Avoid L.A. campus at all costs. It's a joke.

The San Diego campus is considered the best out of the system, but I was recently informed by a campus administrator that the SD branch may have to close their doors in 2 years. They owe the San Diego county $50,000,000 in building and land county code violations. Unless they are able to sell the campus by then or raise the money to update the campus, they will have to close the SD branch. Kaiser recently entered into a contract to buy it for $60,000,000 but backed out of it; I believe due to the code violations.

Holy F. Doesn't surprise me though; Judith Albino is to blame for the downfall of the school.
 
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Avoid L.A. campus at all costs. It's a joke.

Would you be willing to please say a little bit more* about why/how this is so, aequitasveritas? I've read your posts on Alliant before, but don't recall you summarily condemning the LA campus.

*I don't disbelieve you, just more details might help me from eventually doing something stupid (due to age, geographical restrictions).
 
Even as someone who would be absolutely delighted to see these schools shutting down at the system level, that seems absolutely crazy. I wonder what the implications would be if that actually came to light...I've never heard of a university just flat out shutting down (at least not recently). Would students get transferred to another campus that already has an overabundance of students and have to compete for practica there? What obscene number of lawsuits can we expect if they just took their money and closed the doors before anyone could earn their degree?

And most of all...how on earth does a place get 50 million dollars in violations? Did they knock down a statue of the inspector's grandfather to make a building out of asbestos, arsenic, and body parts coated in led paint?

I predict a chain of panicked postings from current, past, and future students of the SD campus in response to this...
 
Would you be willing to please say a little bit more* about why/how this is so, aequitasveritas? I've read your posts on Alliant before, but don't recall you summarily condemning the LA campus.

*I don't disbelieve you, just more details might help me from eventually doing something stupid (due to age, geographical restrictions).

The LA campus had lower admissions standards and also seems to have lower caliper applicants. The Psy.D. is really the culprit. They have no dissertation...they have a one semester long "Doctoral Project"

I have a friend failed to complete an application for them; sent in the wrong material, and they sent him a letter of acceptance in two days.
 
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Even as someone who would be absolutely delighted to see these schools shutting down at the system level, that seems absolutely crazy. I wonder what the implications would be if that actually came to light...I've never heard of a university just flat out shutting down (at least not recently). Would students get transferred to another campus that already has an overabundance of students and have to compete for practica there? What obscene number of lawsuits can we expect if they just took their money and closed the doors before anyone could earn their degree?

And most of all...how on earth does a place get 50 million dollars in violations? Did they knock down a statue of the inspector's grandfather to make a building out of asbestos, arsenic, and body parts coated in led paint?

I predict a chain of panicked postings from current, past, and future students of the SD campus in response to this...

LMFAO. Ur not far off. The buildings are all full of asbestos. They removed it from the library and it took them an entire effen year to do it. They've got alot of other big buildings that are out of date. The other major violation is this set of mobile classrooms that operate as various admn buildings and undergrad/international programs. It's ridiculous.

The body parts are not really a big deal though, because as you say, they're lead coated and hence galvanized. But the lead does present an environmental hazard. Removing it will be a Psy.D project for a student..."The Humanistic experience of a day project interacting with body parts coated with lead"
...think I'm making fun? I know a Psy.D. who wrote her effen dissertation about an effen day trip she took hiking with diabetics. Meanwhile I did 2 years in the big house with a factor analytic and validity study on multi-method psych assessments. But...same same.

I digress.
 
I don't know anything about the LA or SD programs but have trained and worked with grads of the SF program (both PsyD and PhD) that have been excellent clinicians. I think it was the flagship CSPP program, established by Nick Cummings. However, you will still have a large debt so plan well wherever you go.
 
The LA campus had lower admissions standards and also seems to have lower caliper applicants. The Psy.D. is really the culprit. They have no dissertation...they have a one semester long "Doctoral Project"

I have a friend failed to complete an application for them; sent in the wrong material, and they sent him a letter of acceptance in two days.

Thanks, aequitasveritas. I only just saw your helpful post--been offline due to family emergency.
 
I just looked up outcomes for Alliant campuses-- I know people might choose a PsyD because they don't have to worry about research as much (I've certainly read up about the differences between PsyD and PhD programs), but why?? The debt is enormous and the match rate is terrible. Is it because they can't get into funded PhD programs? Shouldn't they consider other avenues than one that seems so thankless and financially constraining? I work for a neuropsychiatrist now who has pretty much no respect for the PsyD as a degree, and that is a view I have seen across many professional settings. I'm not trying to speak ill of anyone's career choice, and I don't have a dog in the fight, I was just wondering.
 
I just looked up outcomes for Alliant campuses-- I know people might choose a PsyD because they don't have to worry about research as much (I've certainly read up about the differences between PsyD and PhD programs), but why?? The debt is enormous and the match rate is terrible. Is it because they can't get into funded PhD programs? Shouldn't they consider other avenues than one that seems so thankless and financially constraining? I work for a neuropsychiatrist now who has pretty much no respect for the PsyD as a degree, and that is a view I have seen across many professional settings. I'm not trying to speak ill of anyone's career choice, and I don't have a dog in the fight, I was just wondering.

FYI: the PsyD stigma pervades beyond mental health fields. I'm in another social science field (at least for now--may be applying for PsyD myself) and the other day one of my co-authors uttered the word "PsyD" as if it tasted terrible in his mouth.
 
FYI: the PsyD stigma pervades beyond mental health fields. I'm in another social science field (at least for now--may be applying for PsyD myself) and the other day one of my co-authors uttered the word "PsyD" as if it tasted terrible in his mouth.

As another perspective, I work in a 'multidisciplinary' clinic (trying to be anonymous) owned and run by an RN. The RN hired a PsyD to fill a sub-masters-level position (because the PsyD wants the unique experience offered by this particular clinic), and was emphatically boastful about how this person has a PhD--doesn't know the difference. Many people don't. Other than the in-house MD, this person is the only other "Dr." and almost everyone called this person "Dr. X" but it confused the hell out of the clients!! I refuse to do that, because it's misleading, and I wouldn't even 'go there' with explaining the difference between PhD and PsyD--what's the point? Sigh...
 
As another perspective, I work in a 'multidisciplinary' clinic (trying to be anonymous) owned and run by an RN. The RN hired a PsyD to fill a sub-masters-level position (because the PsyD wants the unique experience offered by this particular clinic), and was emphatically boastful about how this person has a PhD--doesn't know the difference. Many people don't. Other than the in-house MD, this person is the only other "Dr." and almost everyone called this person "Dr. X" but it confused the hell out of the clients!! I refuse to do that, because it's misleading, and I wouldn't even 'go there' with explaining the difference between PhD and PsyD--what's the point? Sigh...

That's fair, but the vast majority of PsyD graduates aren't going to be searching for jobs in settings where people don't know the difference between a PsyD and PhD, and it has always been my experience that in these settings (which have been run by PhD's and MD's) there is no respect at all for a PsyD.
 
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...it has always been my experience that in these settings (which have been run by PhD's and MD's) there is no respect at all for a PsyD.

It all depends where you work. A private practice (or similar) setting is highly variable. Some PPs won't hire an NP but they will hire PAs all day. The same for mid-level psychotherapists...and I'd suspect the same for doctoral-level providers. I think FSPS v. University-based program views will be the most problematic. I think some of it is unwarranted, but it really should be a case by case basis. I came from a university-based Psy.D. and in the beginning I had to jump through some hoops, but now my CV is strong enough that the degree doesn't much matter....I hope?

Bottom line...if you have the chops to match up to other applicants, you should be fine. If you want a top-notch position, you'll probably have to go above and beyond..but it is still possible. If your CV lacks rigorous research training and stats....you will fulfill the existing stereotype that Psy.Ds don't like/want research training.
 
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I just looked up outcomes for Alliant campuses-- I know people might choose a PsyD because they don't have to worry about research as much (I've certainly read up about the differences between PsyD and PhD programs), but why?? The debt is enormous and the match rate is terrible. Is it because they can't get into funded PhD programs? Shouldn't they consider other avenues than one that seems so thankless and financially constraining? I work for a neuropsychiatrist now who has pretty much no respect for the PsyD as a degree, and that is a view I have seen across many professional settings. I'm not trying to speak ill of anyone's career choice, and I don't have a dog in the fight, I was just wondering.


Well, I'm a current Ph.D. student at LA. It's really what you make of it. The Psy.D. program does have very different standards and requirements for graduation. Yes, they do a Doc. project. It's basically a paper and presentation. But the Ph.D.'s have to do a full blown dissertation. The match rate is a disaster. But it really depends what you want to do with your career.

You have to be resourceful no matter where you decide to study, and CSPP LA is no exception to the rule. If anyone likes, they can private message me and I'll be more than happy to answer specific questions about the LA program.
 
I'm currently applying to Alliant CSPP and was wondering if anyone had thoughts (especially current students) of which campus they felt was best in terms of match rate, and quality of clinical training? Or does it matter at all?

I know there have been many threads posted about this topic, but I believe the most recent one may date back to 2010. I'm hoping for perhaps a more recent reflection on the topic.

I would really appreciate any insight or advice. Much thanks!

Jon


Again, as a current Ph.D. student at the LA campus I can state the following.

The Psy.D. program seems comical to me (in terms of what LA offers in education and training). However, it depends what you want from your education and career. I personally don't understand how a doctorate can be awarded to someone who doesn't even write a dissertation. What seems more interesting is when people get their panties in a bunch when they are working on Psy.D. and they are not in the running for more competitive positions (neuropsych/ forensics/ corrections, etc.). There are certain expectations from the community and those in the field, inlcuding the level of training (or like others have said what's on your CV), and I don't know that you can always reach for that within the CSPP-LA Psy.D. program, or at least achieve it as easily.


So the question really is, "what do you want from a graduate experience?". I had a very close friend work on a Ph.D. at Penn State for 7 years. She has told me on many occasions she felt like a slave laborer, teaching classes, publishing papers, all the while leaving her clinical skills under serviced/ developed.

The LA campus has problems, just like ANY program (professional school or otherwise), but resourcefulness is key. Knowing how to network, seek appropriate and rich training, research and academic experiences are really mostly in the hands of the students.


I just matched to a highly competitive APA site and can honestly say that I feel that those of us who did match in my cohort did so because we went above and beyond the standards set for us by CSPP-LA.

As for the other programs, I've heard SF is pretty amazing. But that's hearsay.


If you have specific question please feel free to send me a private message or respond here, I'll try to be as helpful as possible.
 
Qwnpixie-congrats on your APA match! Any suggestions/tips on how to stand out when from a program that does not typically do so well in a match? I'm guessing many people on the forum would benefit from hearing about your experience :)
 
Qwnpixie-congrats on your APA match! Any suggestions/tips on how to stand out when from a program that does not typically do so well in a match? I'm guessing many people on the forum would benefit from hearing about your experience :)


Thanks! Yes, I can put in my 2 cents and a little bit of factual information here.

1. I was told that I would most likely only get one or two APA interviews, and they wouldn't be in the field I had interest in because they were very competitive. Well, I simply decided to find out what a competitive candidate looked like. For my situation the sites expected a LOT of testing experience, group and individual face to face hours, and practicum experience in the field.

These were not readily available through the school. I had to work real hard to get all these requirements met. I worked 30+ hours a week in my first practicum because the school only required 12 but I did the math. At 12 hours a week I'd never meet the minimum requirements come APA application time. Instead I ended up with just under 10 interviews. (TAKE THAT!!!!!!)

If they want 10 assessment batteries find a way to get them done. I did those 30 hours, a ran a small business of my own, and at the same time volunteered at a crisis center every Saturday. I also found time to take care of myself. It wasn't easy, but unlike many in my cohort who looked at the site list on APPI the summer before applications, I knew exactly what I was headed for and tried to have a pre-emptive strike.

In other words, look 10 steps ahead and plan, plan, and plan. It's never to early to start.

2. The program wasn't very supportive or on top of the APA process, at least not to the standards I would have expected. My solution (looking many steps ahead) was to ask students a year or two ahead about the process and get on this website and look at all the info I could find about APPI. When most of my cohort was starting to write essays, I had my essays done, my letters of interest completed, and my CV polished. I also had a all the people who had been there before take a look and provide feedback, so the stuff was super fine tuned.

Which, brings me to #3:

NETWORK! you know that young supervisor at your clinical site who's a little quirky and sometimes too talkative... well they just did a grad degree in some other state/city and they know people. Seven degrees of separation= endless information you can use. Find out what sites look for, what the training is really like for interns (this applies to practicum as well!).

I was very frustrated that there isn't a central location where students talk about internship or practicum experiences. One thing CSPP LA does offer is a well documented file of practicum experiences of students at various sites over the past 4 or so years. I made sure I applied to clinical sites that I thought would give me the supportive, rich experience that I needed to excel.

#4 Don't be afraid to learn and admit that you have a lot of learning to do. Ask questions. Not just about APA/APPIC/Dissertation/ Clinical work... about everything. That brings me back to a program that doesn't do so well in a match.... if your program doesn't have good odds ask around, find people who are either at programs that do have better odds or ask practicing professionals: get the answers you need.

Your dissertation chair doesn't think you can publish? Do some asking around. I can't tell you how many times I've been told it's not likely, and I've just picked up and found a way to make it happen.


I know this a long response, so here's my last piece of advice:

#5 I found someone in my program who was just as motivated as me (perhaps more motivated) and we tried to keep eachother on the ball. This was important for me. Maybe because of my personality, but also because the program lacked the support to help me through the process. It was like having a personal cheerleader call my cell a few times a week, "did you finish that personal statement?"; "stop whining!!! work on your CV!"; "Your deadline for preliminary orals is quickly approaching, lets work at starbucks this weekend instead of watching Law and Order re-runs".


doing all these things made me seem more prepared and like I knew what I wanted; which i think is a huge problem in these programs with poor match rates; students have no support, a lack of direction and no sense in what they need to bring to the table.


Let me know if ya'll have any other questions.
 
Congrats on matching, Qwnpixie. Great tips. I followed a similar structure while in the "comical" Psy.D. track this year at CSPP-LA and matched at a very competitive APA site. We had a good number of matches, especially a couple to Ivy League affiliated sites. If anyone would appreciate information regarding actual experiences in the Psy.D. program, please do not hesitate to message me.
 
Congrats on matching, Qwnpixie. Great tips. I followed a similar structure while in the "comical" Psy.D. track this year at CSPP-LA and matched at a very competitive APA site. We had a good number of matches, especially a couple to Ivy League affiliated sites. If anyone would appreciate information regarding actual experiences in the Psy.D. program, please do not hesitate to message me.

Cognitive dissonance
 
Qwnpixie- awesome response, thanks for that! Im totally one to feel if there is something I can/should do to improve my chances then I should suck it up and do it. Of course, that's only if properly informed right? I found sdn way late, I wished I did more research years back to better prepare for applying to schools. I'm thinking ahead now by trying to give myself the best shot at getting an APA internship later (whether or not I get into a program or not this time heh) :)
 
Qwnpixie- awesome response, thanks for that! Im totally one to feel if there is something I can/should do to improve my chances then I should suck it up and do it. Of course, that's only if properly informed right? I found sdn way late, I wished I did more research years back to better prepare for applying to schools. I'm thinking ahead now by trying to give myself the best shot at getting an APA internship later (whether or not I get into a program or not this time heh) :)


Better late than never!

Hang in there SDN is a great resource!
 
which campus they felt was best in terms of match rate, and quality of clinical training? Or does it matter at all?

For the Psy.D. degree it does indeed look like the San Diego campus has a slightly higher match rate to either an APA or APPIC member internship, at least in according to data from 2008-2010 (42.9% vs. 40.7%). Taking a look at more recent data, for applicants for internship during the 2011-2012 academic year, the LA site actually had a slightly higher match rate (40% vs. 39.13%).

Peruse the match rate data for programs between 2000 and 2010 (available here) and think hard about your options before applying anywhere!
 
Well first off what type of Psy.D are we talking about. I assume clinical focus because AIU/CSPP offers a Ph.D/Psy.D depending on the campus. They also offer a Psy.D in MFT which is what I just got....FYI don't go that road.

A Psy.d In MFT is completely pointless I am learning unless you want to teach for the MFT program at CSPP or you already are working as a licensed MFT and just want to increase your rates with a fancy new initial on your business card.

I graduated from Irvine which is in fact an offshoot of San Diego...my diploma says San Diego. I did a dissertation...took me 5 years because the program has no structure and members of my committee kept quitting CSPP or retiring. I was annoyed that my clinical Psy.D co-worker told me they have dissertation classes concurrently in San Diego and I was left to fend for myself.

When I started at this school they never bothered to educate us on APA and CAPIC/APPIC internships, in fact I was halfway through my 1500 pre-doc when they suddenly required APPIC/CAPIC. Basically in irvine you found your own site, we did all the groundwork for this "new campus"...

Except now, looking for post-doc work, I can't compete with the clinical APA graduates that did Internships with APA, despite taking all the testing courses and giving batteries of tests for years. Hey and I have to do 3,000 hours because 1 of the 2 internships filled out the BOP forms. Irvine didn't bother to discuss licensing requirements for psychologists. And I don't have to worry about backdating and perjury with the BOP because my pre-doc hours have expired anyway....

Had I only known that prior to working as a psych assistant for 4 years while finishing my dissertation to make ends meet. But oh wait...the BOP required psych assistants in private practices to submit a plan for approval before accruing hours in 2009.

So yeah I have a Psy.D from CSPP, over 7,500 hours of experience and I still can't get a job and will have to wait 2 years to become licensed. In a few months my mountain of debt should come due as well...

I could try getting licensed in another state and having AIU/CSPP verify my pre-doc hours, but I doubt they are competent enough to do that.

Screw that school...
 
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