Almost have an MA... do I want a PhD?

[Logic Prevails]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and need some advice. I am entering my 2nd year in a clinical program of a respected Canadian university. Although they encourage everyone to complete the PhD program, it is possible for me to leave after this year and have my Masters (hopefully). I am currently weighing the pros and cons of continuing onward.

In terms of career goals, I can see myself practicing as a therapist in addition to teaching part-time at a University.

I recently spoke with one of my undergraduate professors (just retired) who thought it best to leave after completing an MA. She thought in terms of my future career goals, there would be little difference in salaries having an MA vs. PhD, and that the extra four years (at least), would not necessarily pay off in the end. In Canada, a person can call themselves a psychologist with an MA, and with the way health care providers are handling things, it looks like PhD's are somewhat underpaid in terms of the many extra years of education. I don't intend to do research, and am unsure how much I would benefit from the years of research training and publications. Although only a PhD could hold a tenure position at a University, my intentions are to work only part-time, regardless of my level of education (in Canada there are many part-time professors with MA's).

I know that the extra years in a PhD program will comparatively train a better clinician, but I would intend to continue my education in other ways to improve my clinical skills. At my university, it seems that a PhD would take another 4 years (at least) after a Masters degree, and with the amount of debt I already owe, I am thinking about things more an more in terms of short and long term financial outlook.

I have read all the related past posts and realize many of you are PhD biased, but I would like to hear some opinions from both sides (if there are any).

Thanks

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[psych101]

I work in a state where a master's level psychologist can be licensed. Only catch is they have to be supervised by a dovtoral-level psychologist for the duration of their practice, which can be somewhat limiting or frustrating - something to consider. I worked with a masters awhile before receiving my PhD. I left the MA-level job (making about $37,000) and immediately got a job paying $60,000. Big initial difference in pay. However, in the long run, I tend to agree with your concerns. My student loan debts are $100,000+ and all those extra years in school could have been spent living my life rather than constrained by school, working in a full-time MA-level job, building experience and networking in the community. I have seen plenty of MA-level clinicians making what I make now, especially at agencies or hospitals. But I have also seen some making $33,000-45,000 with at least 5 years of experience -- I think it takes quite a few years to build up to the $55,000+ range, at least in my geographic area, and then it tends to make out close to that. Working privately, there could be the possibility of maxing out on reimbursement rates from insurance companies, but you could always limit these cases and stick to primarily to out-of-pocket clients and charge a decent rate for your services.

As for the idea that a PhD-level program better-trains a clinician, don't be so sure. I would say that my PhD program certainly increased my knowledge base and helped me develop a better understanding of research, stats, and theory behind many concepts. It also provided some good supervision for the clinical work I was exposed to, especially on internship. But as for the therapy piece, most of that (for me anyway, and many others I've talked to) seems to be learned in the "real world" -- by figuring it out yourself, by collaborating with others, and by seeking good supervision. You could certainly do as you say and continue your education in other ways to improve your skills.

It would be great if you could continue to talk to others who live and work in the area in which you would like to practice. Check out salary ranges for your area to see what's typical (such as salary.com, and check the employment ads to see what jobs are paying). I'm glad you're weighing all the options -- this way you're making an educated decision that will be right for you. If we're strictly talking in terms of money, I would never encourage anyone to continue to the doctoral level thinking it will "pay off." It won't. You'd be better off going to law school (only 3 yrs with a typically huge payoff!).

 

[Logic Prevails]

Thanks, that's some really good advice. As I'm getting older, that almightly dollar seems to be having more influence over my decisions. And that's a good point about having to be supervised - I would imagine that it would be especially tough in a situation where the supervisor/supervisee did not particularly get along.

 

[mayab]

Where are you located in Canada? It is not completely accurate that you can practise as an independent psychologist without a PhD. I know that in Ontario you can practise as a psychologist associate, but you have to work under a PhD psychologist.

It seems most jobs advertise PhD preferred or required. I think that Alberta allows Masters level registration, so you might be ok over there.

 

[Logic Prevails]

I'll be moving back to Nova Scotia, where I'll be looking for work. I know that you can be registered as a psychologist, but I'm not sure how the supervision part would work, or if it is necessary . If anyone has any resources that might provide more information I would really appreciate it

 

[mayab]

I'm not sure about your program, but we only do a practicum at the Masters level and I don't think that covers the clinical supervision hours of an internship.

Have you been in contact with anyone from the association for psychology in nova scotia? They will probably be your best bet in getting accurate information.

www.apns.ca if you haven't been there yet.