already in vet school?

[verbal_kint]

I was wondering if the people already in vet school would be willing to share how they got to that point. i've look at the stats of schools just to see what the "average" student getting in looks like, but i'm curious what real people had on their apps. anyone willing to share what kind of experience they had, number of hours, test scores, gpa, where they applied, where they got in, etc?


it'd be much appreciated.

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[ana_counselor]

Overall GPA 3.2, Science GPA 3.5, GRE, umm, forgot, but mid to upper 600's (except of course verbal, which was low 500's) Three strong LOR from physics and physiology teachers, applied to 8, got accepted into 2. Had to leave because of health issues, looking into med school now. Good luck.

I was wondering if the people already in vet school would be willing to share how they got to that point. i've look at the stats of schools just to see what the "average" student getting in looks like, but i'm curious what real people had on their apps. anyone willing to share what kind of experience they had, number of hours, test scores, gpa, where they applied, where they got in, etc?


it'd be much appreciated.

 

[Khenon]

This was back in 2001 (I got accepted but then decided not to go):

GPA: 3.58
GRE: mid-500's to 700's (I can't remember the breakdown)
Volunteered and worked for pay at a vet clinic for 8 mos
Observed surgery at WSU veterinary hospital for 4 mos
Involved in a couple of clubs at the university (including pre-vet)

I applied twice to WSU (as an Idaho resident). The first time I got an interview, but wasn't accepted. I assumed it was because of my lack of veterinary experience. The second time my interview was clearly a formality, and I was accepted right away.

FYI: I applied to some out of state schools and was rejected faster then I could think about it. In state is a big deal, unless you have really great stats.

 

[K.Astro]

overall GPA: 3.3, science: 3.2, GRE:770/700/6. I worked in biomedical research for 3 years (with 2 publications, and some oral/poster presentations at conferences), worked once a week in a vet clinic for a year, volunteered once a week at a therapeutic horse-riding facility, worked for 2 months at a wildlife rehab facility, did a few other little things here and there. I was really into peformance arts in college. I had a good rec from a vet researcher, a wild life vet, and a physiology prof.

Doing something "different" is quickly becoming a big deal in veterinary medicine admissions (much like human medicine). Doing research is a hot ticket if you can find work at your undergrad school, or if you are willing to take time off and do it. It also prepares you unbelievably well for dealing with vet course work, which is heavy on biochemistry and all those other classes that I thought I was finally done with after undergrad!

It is really really important to work in a small animal or a large animal practice, but you also need to make yourself stand out beyond the clinical work. Look for other opportunities in some part of vet med you don't think you'll focus on-- it is interesting work and you will be proving to the admissions board that you are considering the whole field, not just your niche.

I applied to 11 vet schools, was accepted at 7, waitlisted at 2, and rejected from 2.

Feel free to ask me any more Qs!

 

[braun]

Feel free to ask me any more Qs!

Do you have advice for someone making a career change? I studied engineering in undergrad, and now at 30 years old I'm seriously considering DVM.

thanks!

 

[verbal_kint]

Thanks for the replies!

another question, do you think it's really worth applying to a bunch of vet schools. I'm a CA resident and my number one choice is UC Davis. I'm thinking of applying to Colorado, UPenn, Cornell, Washington, and maybe Michigan, but I don't know if it's worth it. It's a much bigger financial burden going to an out of state school. Plus, Davis is a great school and I don't know if going to say Cornell over Davis is really worth paying the extra cash.

Would it be foolish to put all my eggs into one basket, apply to Davis, and if I don't get in, work for a year on my application, and apply again?

 

[chris03333]

Davis is not cheep....adding tuition and living expenses in California compared to adding tuition as an out of state and cost of living at some other schools you will find the "extra cost" is not that much. If Davis is your number 1 because of the money, please do not sell yourself short by not applying to other schools. If Davis is you number 1 school for another reason stick to only applying there for the first try.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Davis is really hard to get in to, even as a CA resident. If I were you... I would apply to at least 4-5 other schools that you would want to go to. If you don't get in to Davis, at least you can consider going elsewhere. Or you could take a year off and apply again. Paying the extra $200 to apply elsewhere will be worth it to have the other options, I think.

My roommate applied to only a couple schools and Davis (as a CA resident) and didn't get in. 2nd time around, she applied to a lot of schools and got in to 3 of them, but not Davis. Since she doesn't like Davis anyway (some problems with certification and facilities and whatnot), she chose to go out of state. But it is a huge financial burden, no matter what you do.... good luck!

(I only applied to 3 schools because it was easiest for me to get in to and cheapest for me to go to IL. But I think CA is very different because of the sheer number of applicants.)

 

[verbal_kint]

you woudln't happen to know the basic jist of your friends application that didn't get accepted to Davis would you? I know it can be a pretty taboo subject.

I'm just starting my Spring semester of Junior year, and I'm starting to get a little anxious about the upcoming applications process, so I'm trying to do whatever I can from now until then to get a good idea of what I can improve and expect.

Thanks again.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

I'm not sure what her stats were. I know her experience is pretty extensive... a lot of lab animal, some marine animal, a couple weeks of shark research, and your standard small animal clinical experience. She professed an interest in lab animal and marine (and had the experience to back it up), so I think that made her a little more unique. GPA was probably pretty good... definitely way above average, since she got in to a couple out of state schools.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but don't be discouraged if you don't get in on the first time around. Most people around here tried many times for an acceptance... the schools want to know you really want to be a vet, and if you are willing to keep coming back to them then they know you're serious. Taking time off before vet school isn't a bad thing either. It let me live my life a little before committing to such a huge task.

Don't be too nervous. Keep getting a lot of experience... if you have to spend money to do it, then take out the loan. It's worth it to have the experience, both for your application and later for getting internships, etc. And in all honesty, even though some schools appear (or are) better than others, you will still have a great education and a great experience no matter where you go. There are so few vet schools in the USA that it's difficult to have your heart set on one school. And no matter what specialty you're going to be shooting for (if you are even interested in a specialty), if you get good grades and good experience at any of the vet schools, you'll have an equally good shot.

Hope that helped a bit.

 

[chris03333]

Everyone I knew as Cal residents with HIGH GPA's and average GRE had problems getting in, which makes me think they are GRE picky. They said that I needed to make my verbal score higher ....I scored the same verbal score on SAT don't think I can higher it...

I got in 5 out of state schools as an out of state person so no matter.

 

[verbal_kint]

Everyone I knew as Cal residents with HIGH GPA's and average GRE had problems getting in, which makes me think they are GRE picky. They said that I needed to make my verbal score higher ....I scored the same verbal score on SAT don't think I can higher it...

I got in 5 out of state schools as an out of state person so no matter.

What do you mean by HIGH GPA's? Like 3.8-4.0?

And do you mind sharing your GRE scores?

 

[chris03333]

What do you mean by HIGH GPA's? Like 3.8-4.0?

And do you mind sharing your GRE scores?

Yes 3.8-4.0 They look at percentiles my verbal was 72%....this is what was marked as "lower than average" on the evaluation. I myself had a 3.58 cumulative and 3.6 science 3.9 last 2 years. Davis is very competitive even as a resident (I am a Cal resident). The tuition is over 20,000 for residents now. They look for a variety of things and I am sure I would have learned more than the evaluation letter that comes with the denial letter says but I did not care at the time because I got into other schools and did not have my heart set on Davis....

GOOD LUCK

 

[verbal_kint]

Yes 3.8-4.0 They look at percentiles my verbal was 72%....this is what was marked as "lower than average" on the evaluation. I myself had a 3.58 cumulative and 3.6 science 3.9 last 2 years. Davis is very competitive even as a resident (I am a Cal resident). The tuition is over 20,000 for residents now. They look for a variety of things and I am sure I would have learned more than the evaluation letter that comes with the denial letter says but I did not care at the time because I got into other schools and did not have my heart set on Davis....

GOOD LUCK

where you going now?

 

[chris03333]

where you going now?

I am at Western (could not pass up the chance to be the first class at a school). I got into Michigan, Ohio, Kansas and Minnesota as out of state.

Chris

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Kansas seems like an "easy" school for out of staters to get in to. I know several people who have gotten in there.

Yes, on the GRE percentages are important (how you rank compared to all the other college educated people taking it). People retake the GRE frequently... I know one girl who kept taking it over and over each year (she finally got in this year, I think it was her 5th or 6th time.) The school told her that was pretty much the only thing keeping her out, and then they changed admissions policies to not consider grades/GRE as much.

I consider a high GPA to be 3.7-3.9 at a well-known school...

BTW, I was told tuition at UC-Davis is now $25k because they have $$ problems... tuition here for out of staters is maybe $30k, and a much cheaper cost of living, so not a huge difference...

Chris -- how do you like Western? They have a rather interesting policy regarding use of animals in teaching... when is the first time you actually see inside an animal as in surgery?

 

[chris03333]

Chris -- how do you like Western? They have a rather interesting policy regarding use of animals in teaching... when is the first time you actually see inside an animal as in surgery?[/QUOTE]


WOOOHOOOO GOOO WESTERN!!!!!

No, seriously, I do love it here, but the new curriculum took a couple of weeks to get used to (I assume any vet school would take me the same amount of adjustment time.)

The policy regarding use of animals in teaching is the "reverence for life philosophy". This says we will only perform procedures on live animals when wee have passed certain skills tests, on a simulation or a cadaver. It also means that we do not accept cadavers from pounds or animals to be used for anatomy from purpose breed facilities. All of our cadavers are donated by their owners and have to have been euthanized for humane reasons (terminal illness) or died by natural causes. I actually "saw inside an animal as in surgery." in my first semester here. We can scrub in on surgeries (after testing out of certain skills) and assist. We just do not do any unnecessary surgery. So if we have a dog with a broken bone we will repair it. We just do not do any survival (like take a healthy dog, break a bone and repair it, them let them recover) or terminal surgeries. This is the best I can explain it....With that I want to be clear that I AM NOT AGAINST OTHER SCHOOLS WAY OF TEACHING. If that were the case I would have only applied here. I just saw a unique oppertunity and a challenge here that I could not pass up.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

I didn't know anything, really, about Western so thanks for explaining. Although I have to say, being the charter class would probably deter and not attract me to a school. Sometimes it seems like the bugs need to be worked out of a system after a couple trial and errors.

Maybe I'm just naive... but I don't think vet schools do those things. Or if they did, it's definitely not continued nowadays. I have never heard of breaking a bone for the purposes of someone fixing it. We have so-called "fresh" specimens in anatomy lab, but those are from research dogs that were about to be euthanized or clients' dogs that have been donated. Does Western not have researchers?

Spays and neuters are done on shelter dogs, a lot of whom are adopted out to people at the vet school. The teaching hospital has clients from all over with often unique cases, so 3rd and 4th year students get the chance to practice on all sorts. I guess each school operates differently, but I think they all have the best interests of animals as a collective at heart.

 

[mammalmama]

The vet that I work for went to U.C. Davis. He graduated in 2001. I was talking to him one day about some of his vet school experiences and the thing that stuck out in my mind was that they would get dogs from the animal shelter and they would spay/neuter them and then euthanize them. He also told me that during some of his surgeries a resident would come around and create a problem (i.e. nick the spleen) and then the student would have to go fix it before he continued with the surgery. To me, that seems wrong, but I guess you have to practice those kinds of situations because you could come across them in real life. What do you guys think?

 

[cytoborg]

they would get dogs from the animal shelter and they would spay/neuter them and then euthanize them.

Not true. They spay/neuter them and return them to the shelter so they can be adopted out. They take the animals' recovery very seriously.

As for the surgery thing, I don't know...haven't heard anything along those lines.

 

[VeganSoprano]

Not true. They spay/neuter them and return them to the shelter so they can be adopted out. They take the animals' recovery very seriously.

As for the surgery thing, I don't know...haven't heard anything along those lines.

Most schools are still doing invasive and terminal surgeries as part of their teaching curriculum. To the best of my knowledge, Tufts and Western are the only schools that do no invasive or terminal surgeries. Most schools offer alternatives for students who are opposed to performing these procedures, but for the most part they are a part of the curriculum.

I think considering invasive and terminal surgeries an essential part of the learning process is short-sighted. Sure, the argument is that "they're going to be euthanized at the shelter anyway, better to get our screw-ups over on this animal than on someone's pet". But do student MD's say "I want to learn surgery on a homeless guy nobody cares about instead of on someone's parent/sibling/child"? No way. That kind of thinking would be unacceptable. So student MD's learn surgery by observing and assisting and working on donated cadavers until they're ready to do surgery on their own. There's no reason vet students can't do the same thing - especially considering the huge numbers of shelter animals and feral cats who need spay/neuter and other procedures.

 

[mammalmama]

I can only go by what he told me. He said he had to euthanize shelter animals after he spayed or neutered them. That was a few years ago. The curriculum could have changed.

 

[cytoborg]

I can only go by what he told me. He said he had to euthanize shelter animals after he spayed or neutered them. That was a few years ago. The curriculum could have changed.

Rest assured that they are not currently euthanizing the spay/neuters.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

I know that my school doesn't have terminal surgeries in the jr sx class your 3rd year, and 4th year is all rotations through the hospital and other places. Hands-on training in your first couple years can be obtained through places like the Wildlife Clinic or the equine ICU/colic team. RAVS trips offer 1st and 2nd year students opportunities to perform spay/neuters as a free service to low income communities. So while this change may have been brought about in this decade and not the last, it IS happening.

And this change also requires the student to go out and seek those aforementioned opportunities. RAVS trips provide housing and food, but not travel expenses. Schools finding alternative methods of teaching also requires money, and that's another issue altogether. Most vet schools are undergoing budget cuts from the state government, and they're raising tuition to compensate. Western, Tufts, UCD, UPenn... those are all very progressive schools in their educational curriculum, and they are also the most expensive. Student debt is skyrocketing, and a veterinarian's salary just doesn't match. There are a lot more issues influencing a veterinary education. You need to address all of them, not just the problem of animal life.

 

[laurafinn]

Would it be foolish to put all my eggs into one basket, apply to Davis, and if I don't get in, work for a year on my application, and apply again?

Yes. Apparently UC Davis admissions officers view applicants who only apply to Davis or to Davis/Western as less than serious about going to vet school (this is from a friend who goes to Davis now).

Even if your heart is set on Davis, apply to more schools. When it comes time for interviews/visits, you might be surprised by how much you like one of the out-of-state schools.

 

[verbal_kint]

Yes. Apparently UC Davis admissions officers view applicants who only apply to Davis or to Davis/Western as less than serious about going to vet school (this is from a friend who goes to Davis now).

Even if your heart is set on Davis, apply to more schools. When it comes time for interviews/visits, you might be surprised by how much you like one of the out-of-state schools.

How does Davis know which school(s) someone applies to?

 

[chris03333]

How does Davis know which school(s) someone applies to?

That is part of the application info (or it was when I applied, I am a Cal resident and applied straight threw Davis). VMCAS also has a section for you to fill out what schools you applied to.

 

[Beauty2597]

Hi,

I have some advice. What kind of engineering did you study? Unfortunately you may have to go back to school and take all the pre reqs, but i would watch out because specific schools have specific courses to take.

do you have vet and animal experience? the best thing to do is work in an area of veterinary medicine that you are interested in to see if you really like it. many people dont realize what it truly entails if they are a petowner and dont really see "behind the scenes". if you like what you do, then i say go for it and also pursue other experience.

if you are in state for a vet school that is a big plus.

message me if you have any more questions.

Lisa

 

[birdvet2006]

I was wondering if the people already in vet school would be willing to share how they got to that point. i've look at the stats of schools just to see what the "average" student getting in looks like, but i'm curious what real people had on their apps. anyone willing to share what kind of experience they had, number of hours, test scores, gpa, where they applied, where they got in, etc?


it'd be much appreciated.

It's a bit late for this reply, but since I'm new here I might as well give my stats.

I applied back in 2001 to 3 overseas schools: Murdoch University and the University of Melbourne (neither were AVMA accredited then) in Australia and the University of Glasgow in Scotland. I was accepted to all 3 but "conditionally" at Melbourne.

My cumulative GPA was 3.49 and I don't know my science GPA (I didn't have to calculate it). I had worked part time at a 24 hour small animal hospital for just over 3 years, roughly 25-35 hours per week. I had been a member of the university's (Cal Poly Pomona's) beef cattle show team for 2.5 years, so I had farm animal experience. I had a bunch of experience in high school through 4-H but I don't think that really counted. The GRE was not required - I *had* taken it but don't remember the score (I would have re-taken it if I was going to apply via VMCAS in October to US schools).

Now I'm at the University of Glasgow and this is my 4th year (out of 5). It seems like a great place to be accepted if you're a Californian...we have lots of them here (me included). Also, there are several people from Cal Poly Pomona and one from Cal Poly SLO that I know of.

 

[verbal_kint]

It's a bit late for this reply, but since I'm new here I might as well give my stats.

I applied back in 2001 to 3 overseas schools: Murdoch University and the University of Melbourne (neither were AVMA accredited then) in Australia and the University of Glasgow in Scotland. I was accepted to all 3 but "conditionally" at Melbourne.

My cumulative GPA was 3.49 and I don't know my science GPA (I didn't have to calculate it). I had worked part time at a 24 hour small animal hospital for just over 3 years, roughly 25-35 hours per week. I had been a member of the university's (Cal Poly Pomona's) beef cattle show team for 2.5 years, so I had farm animal experience. I had a bunch of experience in high school through 4-H but I don't think that really counted. The GRE was not required - I *had* taken it but don't remember the score (I would have re-taken it if I was going to apply via VMCAS in October to US schools).

Now I'm at the University of Glasgow and this is my 4th year (out of 5). It seems like a great place to be accepted if you're a Californian...we have lots of them here (me included). Also, there are several people from Cal Poly Pomona and one from Cal Poly SLO that I know of.

25-35 hours a weeks? Did you fit this in during school? that had to be tough!

 

[birdvet2006]

25-35 hours a weeks? Did you fit this in during school? that had to be tough!

Yeah, I most often worked 3 days per week (Fri.-Sun.)...8 hour shifts x 3 = 24. But there were some weeks when they were short-handed and I was able to work more...usually I'd go there straight after classes and start at 3:30pm, staying until 11:30pm or (usually) later.

I survived somehow.

 

[MicheleVet]

I'm also new here so...

I applied after 3 years of undergrad with no degree. I had a 3.7 GPA with science being about the same. My GRE scores were around 2100 for the three categories. My vet experience was mostly from HS (4 years total of varied hours) and some volunteering during undergrad (foal watch, emergency clinic.) I applied to UF, NCState and Auburn. Auburn was just to put a third on my app....I didn't have the requirements and didn't want to pay out-of-state tuition for 4 years. I was waitlisted at NCState and accepted at UF.

 

[VeganSoprano]

Michele, is UF your in-state school?

 

[MicheleVet]

yep

 

[muttmommy]

The vet that I work for went to U.C. Davis. He graduated in 2001. I was talking to him one day about some of his vet school experiences and the thing that stuck out in my mind was that they would get dogs from the animal shelter and they would spay/neuter them and then euthanize them. He also told me that during some of his surgeries a resident would come around and create a problem (i.e. nick the spleen) and then the student would have to go fix it before he continued with the surgery. To me, that seems wrong, but I guess you have to practice those kinds of situations because you could come across them in real life. What do you guys think?

I have to agree with you there about the create a problem/have the student fix it issue. I also understand that this might be part of a student's responsibility as a student, etc., but to me, it just seems to go against what a veterinarian would stand for, you know? But like you said - I guess you do have to get practice somehow and maybe that's the way to do it. Just my two cents worth.

 

[Darla3]

I am also having issues with the way vet school is taught (i.e. creating problems that did not previously exist and allowing students to learn how to fix them). I struggle with the thought of harming shelter animal in the process of learning to heal them - it's almost like the vet schools are taking the attitude that "they are just animals". That is like taking people on death row and allowing med students to experiment on them. Human med students are taught similar procedures, but in a much more humane manner - I wish more vet schools could implement the reverence for life programs that Tufts and Western have - but I guess resources are limited.

 

[birdvet2006]

I wish more vet schools could implement the reverence for life programs that Tufts and Western have - but I guess resources are limited.

All of the schools in the UK are highly welfare-oriented (legislation supports this as well). I'm in my fourth year out of five and we haven't done any surgeries yet in school (and this is the "medicine and surgery" year). Next year we will have the opportunity to do tiny amounts, but with direct supervision and at the SSPCA. We also will be helping with surgeries in our own small animal hospital (referral only) and equine hospital, but as far as I know we won't be the primary surgeon. (3 vet schools in the UK are AVMA accredited: London, Glasgow and Edinburgh).

My problem with this is that I don't feel that I will be a "surgeon" at graduation. I feel very un-qualified. I need more practice! They suggest you go "see practice" where you will *hopefully* be allowed to participate in surgeries...but so far, I have only castrated 1.5 dogs and sutured up a dead cat (with very little guidance on that one). I'm planning on doing a RAVS trip this summer, but they may not let me do surgery if I'm no good at it (catch 22!).

Cindy
4th year at Glasgow

 

[2quick]

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue at the moment. On one side, since the animals utilized will be euthanized regardless of whether or not you use them to learn, I approve of the practice, since it lends greater meaning to their lives (not that they know it of course). However, I also believe that veterinary students are entering the profession (generally) out of love and compassion for animals, and that terminal surgeries undermine this (i.e. how is it right to train to save animals by killing them?) Of course, this is countered by the argument that the best way to learn is by doing, and thus you will theoretically be able to care more efficiently for a larger number of animals in the future by euthanizing these few now (ugh, my head is spinning).

I'll also add that I am a semi-vegetarian (still eat eggs, fish, dairy), and am this way due to my belief that animals should only be killed when necessary, not merely because they taste better than other alternatives. However, I have an interest in production animal medicine because I'm also a pragmatist, believing that people will be eating meat for as long as it's available, and thus these animals deserve the best veterinary care possible.

In short, I don't see any of these issues as black and white, and have spent many hours discussing and thinking about them. In fact, I almost decided to go into human medicine so as to bypass the majority of them. However, I finally concluded that at the end of the day, no matter how you finally become a veterinarian, you'll be in a position to help animals and people, which is why I'll be going to veterinary school next year.

Andrew

 

[verbal_kint]

You start off thinking "Oh, I want to be a vet! I am going to save animals!" but you will quickly realize that "killing"/ "putting them to sleep"/ "euthanizing" is a large part of the job. Euthanasia happens all the time at the clinic I work at. It seemed odd at first, but there is a "good" or "humane" way of ending an animals life.

Euthanasia plays a big role in labatory medicine as well. For instance, frogs are regularly used for their oocytes to study developement/genetics. When these frogs start producing bad oocytes, there is no longer any real need for them. It is the job of the veterinarian to "cull" these frogs. I know many vets will try to best utilize the frogs before killing them by runing different tests on them, or using them as practice for when they do certain techniques in the field (drawing CSF, pulling blood, etc).

If you look at say wildlife management, a major role they play is in controlling population growth for the betterment of the specific species or entire ecosystems. These people love wildlife, love animals, love nature, but killing animals is still a part of their job.

It's just the nature of the field.

I suppose this is why vet schools stress many hours of experience, so people know what they are getting themselves into. You can't have this naive belief that all you're going to do is save animals left and right.

 

[bern]

I knew a woman who had gone to veterinary school in the Philippines - in addition to paying much less for her education, she also got a ton of surgical experience, largely because the animal welfare laws there are much less restrictive. Obviously that's bad for the animals in that country, but it does mean that students there are far more proficient in surgery upon graduation. She said that a lot of recent graduates from US schools could barely perform a simple spay/neuter, and even then took an absurdly long time to do it.

It seems cruel to perform unnecessary or terminal procedures, but how else do you really learn? Observation will only get you so far. You can see where a scalpel is supposed to cut, but it won't tell you how much pressure to apply.

I suppose I see it as for the greater good (trite, but useful). Euthanasia is a part of the job. What pisses me off is clients who make the decision to euthanize based solely on economic factors - killing their pet and getting a new one is cheaper than fixing the one they've got.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Where is everyone getting the idea that schools other than Western and Tufts make students do terminal surgeries? Policies have changed and while some school may have a couple electives that do offer terminal surgeries, they are few and far between. The ones I know of have to do with food animals that are then turned in to hamburger anyway... sorry to be blunt, but that is the purpose of our dairy farm. It's used for food animal science, and you can purchase meat from the meat lab on campus so it's not wasted.

Whoever said that US students aren't so great at surgery is absolutely correct. I acknowledge I don't want to (well, I won't be since it's not an option) practice on and then euthanize shelter animals because they may be adopted by someone some day, and I opted not to vote for which cow had to leave our palpations (as I know what will happen to it), but I feel like I have to really search for those options to get surgical experience. As a 3rd year, you do one spay and one neuter as the primary surgeon. But 4th year you can get a lot of experience under the clinicians. And for some large animal people, as 3rd years, they really need to get the kind of experience they need so they can work on client animals and get more from their 4th year. And I have yet to hear of any large animal place outside of school that teaches students surgeries. It's just the nature of the profession. Not every vet is going to be saving doggies and kitties.

RAVS will let you do the surgeries if you demonstrate to them you are familiar with how to do it... they don't want to teach you how to suture or sterile technique though. Not really a catch-22... they are just tired of students showing up, expecting to be taught how to do spays/neuters.

And really. Would you allow yourself to spay your own dog without any prior experience? Even if you've seen a lot of spays and were supervised by another vet?

 

[VeganSoprano]

My problem with this is that I don't feel that I will be a "surgeon" at graduation. I feel very un-qualified. I need more practice!

I think that's actually kind of the point. Vet school itself isn't supposed to prepare you to be really great at anything. That's what internships and residencies and experience are for. When you graduate, you may not be a "surgeon", but you'll have the basic knowledge and skills that can make you into a surgeon.

 

[VeganSoprano]

It seems cruel to perform unnecessary or terminal procedures, but how else do you really learn? Observation will only get you so far. You can see where a scalpel is supposed to cut, but it won't tell you how much pressure to apply.

QUOTE]

I don't know, ask an MD. They don't get to do invasive and terminal procedures to learn surgery, so they have to learn in other ways. There's absolutely no reason why these practices can't be adapted for student DVMs.

I personally wouldn't expect someone to come out of 4 years of vet school as a great surgeon or a great clinician or a great anything. But you get great with experience and perhaps additional education.

 

[birdvet2006]

I personally wouldn't expect someone to come out of 4 years of vet school as a great surgeon or a great clinician or a great anything. But you get great with experience and perhaps additional education.

I am not complaining about not being a great surgeon...I am complaining that I may not feel like a surgeon at all! If we don't do surgeries in school, then it's just like "going to spay my own dog" with no experience. If I get to do half a spay in school, I won't feel any better. I've seen a new graduate from a UK school take over an hour to do a spay (actually I saw her doing more than one spay each day and it took that long each time). I don't want to be like that!

So I signed up for a RAVS trip to get more experience, since I'm not getting much in school. I have learned the basic sutures (even hand ties) and the sterile technique (which we haven't been able to practice in school, believe it or not...I learned this by scrubbing in to equine surgeries at two referral hospitals). I know the procedure of a spay and a neuter. But I've never made the incision or anything else on a spay (I *have* for a castration). Of course I'm worried that RAVS will choose other students to be surgeons than me. It's going to be an expensive trip for me, and I want to get something out of it. It will really make me feel bad if there are 1st and 2nd year vet students doing surgeries while I sit back and do paperwork...and I'm in my 4th year (going on 5th at that time) of vet school.

 

[bern]

It seems cruel to perform unnecessary or terminal procedures, but how else do you really learn? Observation will only get you so far. You can see where a scalpel is supposed to cut, but it won't tell you how much pressure to apply.

QUOTE]

I don't know, ask an MD. They don't get to do invasive and terminal procedures to learn surgery, so they have to learn in other ways. There's absolutely no reason why these practices can't be adapted for student DVMs.

I personally wouldn't expect someone to come out of 4 years of vet school as a great surgeon or a great clinician or a great anything. But you get great with experience and perhaps additional education.

True, but MD surgeons do a minimum of 5 years of resident training after school - more if they specialize - and they only have to know one species. From what I've read, residencies for veterinary surgery usually are less (3 years seems to be the length for small animal). And I imagine your typical general practice vet performs far more surgeries than does your average MD GP.

I thinks it's good that some vet schools are adapting the methods used for training MDs, but I can see where financial and time constraints would be an issue - there's an easier, quicker, cheaper way to do it, so they do.

 

[CoffeeCrazy]

Have you spoken to the RAVS people about your concerns? If you emphasize that you are going for the surgical experience then they can tell you what they're looking for. Or I can put you in touch with my classmates that have done the trips. Do your legwork early so the money you're invested is worthwhile.

 

[birdvet2006]

Have you spoken to the RAVS people about your concerns? If you emphasize that you are going for the surgical experience then they can tell you what they're looking for. Or I can put you in touch with my classmates that have done the trips. Do your legwork early so the money you're invested is worthwhile.

That's a great idea. Thank you! They will probably just tell me to "study up" (which is no problem)...but if they want me to "practice", well there's nothing I can really do. I will try and get some experience at the practice I used to work at as a vet tech (one of the vets has let me do part of a castration...but I was working then). Just doing part of a spay would make me happy.


Cindy