What does it mean if I was selected as an Alternate? Just wait and see if someone doesn't take the spot? Where do I go from here?
Alternate????
- Thread starter WhatNow22
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So, I am in the same boat with the Navy, in my case an alternate to be able to progress into Fellowship. This is the info from the email I received:
Alternates are placed in a pool used to fill vacancies or to fill training requirements. *PERS-4415 will determine the designated alternates assignability, authorize his or her release for reassignment to training, and notify the NAVMED-MPT&E GME Office before a training position can be offered.
I don't know if that helps at all. I'd email the leader for your specialty. Good luck!
Alternates are placed in a pool used to fill vacancies or to fill training requirements. *PERS-4415 will determine the designated alternates assignability, authorize his or her release for reassignment to training, and notify the NAVMED-MPT&E GME Office before a training position can be offered.
I don't know if that helps at all. I'd email the leader for your specialty. Good luck!
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An alternate for a residency position means that you are "on the list" for possible selection if someone declines their offered position. People must decide by Jan 6th, so you may have to wait until then, if not a little longer.
For fellowship it can be a little different. Being an alternate can mean that there was a "zero select" goal for that specialty, but the specialty is hoping to train someone if they can pick up funding.
For fellowship it can be a little different. Being an alternate can mean that there was a "zero select" goal for that specialty, but the specialty is hoping to train someone if they can pick up funding.
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Just outta curiosity, what service are you, and what did you apply for?
Some questions:
1. So if you're an 'Alternate', does that mean you couldn't get any of your choices (#1 thru #3 for your specialty, nor even your 4th or 5th choice for perhaps another specialty)??? Or does it mean that one of your choices wants you, and they just want you to wait a little and sweat?
2. do they specify which location you're an alternate for in your chosen specialty, or are you waiting for a spot to open up at any location?
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Navy: I actually don't remember exactly how the "alternate" selection works for internship. My guess is that you would be a "select" for one of the internships and an "alternate" for one of your higher choices, but that may not be correct. Maybe NavyFP can clear that one. With the change in internship selection a few years back I'm less clear on how that one works.
2) They do not specify a location when you are selected as an alternate. You are simply an alternate for that specialty. You also have no clue where you are on the ranking of "alternates" as there are almost always more than one.
One thing I realized I probably confused some people is with the fellowship alternates. The statement I made above mostly applies to FTOS fellowships. For in-service fellowships if you are an alternate it usually means the same as for residency: someone else got the slot and you are waiting to see if they accept.
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Depends on what service and what specialty. If it's something that isn't that competitive then sure you very well may get picked up off the list. If it is something competitive like rads/derm/ophtho/etc then it is rare that someone turns down the position (unless of course they had a last minute change of heart or were selected for more than one residency and want the other one)
For Internal Medicine residency in the Navy I have seen them go through almost the entire alternate list before finally getting someone to accept.
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Amen to that, that's where I'm heading . . . .thanks for the info.
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rumor has it the navy did not sponsor any fellowships, in or out. ie, everyone is an "alternate." 😱
overall it was a slim year for everyone for fellowships, not sure how the residency/intern "match" panned out.
--yoru friendly neighborhood glad he got his fellowship when he did caveman
overall it was a slim year for everyone for fellowships, not sure how the residency/intern "match" panned out.
--yoru friendly neighborhood glad he got his fellowship when he did caveman
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Backrow...not entirely true about fellowship. Pediatrics matched zero fellowships this GME (no deferred or FTIS or FTOS). Some of the FTIS fellowships matched zero applicants and unless the Navy gets funding soon😡 ...those program(s) will have zero fellows in the first year class.
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They passed out around 12...but everyone else is an alternate. Navy peds gave out ZERO fellowships. Talk about a moral killer.
Competitive residency, 1 location, limited spots, no deferrments. So only listed 1 choice...already did intern year and finishing up pay back.
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That's actually a good point. This year looks to be a "weird" year for both the residency and fellowship matches. I have heard of many programs not picking up their "usual" complement of residents and as you note very few fellowships have been selected out of the board.
I'm not sure what that means in the long run and how this will play out in the end. My hope is that they are holding back on us and slots will be filled, but I'm not holding my breath. Will be very interesting to see how the FTIS fellowships deal with no incoming fellows.
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I think everyone is still waiting for the dust to settle on this one. I'm not holding my breath either. I'm also curious how this will affect accredidation on some of these programs.
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There were four outservice Navy fellowships that I see
OCCM ED FTOS SEL (2 YRS)
RAD INTER FTOS SEL (1 YR)
SG O NC FTOS SEL (2 YRS)
UROL ONC FTOS SEL (2 YRS)
I didn't pick through to count how many inservice fellowship slots were filled.
Navy anesthesia had zero FTOS fellowships too, but it was mostly expected. Two inservice anes pain management fellowship slots were filled. There were anesthesia fellowship FTOS applicants for cardiac x1, OB x1, pain x5, regional x3. The anesthesia residency class sizes are down compared to a few years ago too. Used to be 6 at each of the big 3 plus 1 pain fellow. Now it's 4 + 5 + 5 plus 2 pain fellows.
I'll probably apply for a 2014 cardiac slot ... but even that doesn't look good. As for morale ... yeah. I've thought long and hard about staying in the Navy past my ADSO, and I keep coming back to a lack of fellowship options as the dealbreaker.
I can handle the NC and other militaryisms. I'm actually looking forward to deploying next year. I've managed to homestead at one place for my entire 5-year ADSO period ... and could probably get back to my favored one of the big 3 next. The pay is a small issue, especially with the annual ISP shenanigans (which offends more than it really hurts me), but honestly a 4yr MSP contract + a bit of moonlighting on the side closes the gap fairly well, so I can't even point to pay as a compelling reason to get out. But I can't work "no fellowship" into my long term plans, with or without the Navy.
It is interesting to track the # of residency alternates year-to-year, too - once again anesthesia leads the count. 24 anesthesia alternates this year, 14 were definitely interns because they also applied for FS or dive GMO billets. Probably most of the remaining 10 were interns who didn't want FS or dive, but I'm sure there's at least one disappointed GMO out there. Which sucks. That's got to be the toughest, hardest pill to swallow for HPSP'ers coming in ... looking out at all those civilian residency slots, but coming up short in the very small military match.
24 alts for anesthesia
13 alts for emergency med
11 alts for family med
13 alts for internal med
6 alts for OB
11 alts for peds
6 alts for rads
One anesthesia alternate may get some good news, because one applicant matched to both anesthesia and derm.
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And just like that I'm already off the alternate list. Glad the Navy didn't make me wait too long 🙂
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Ugh, that's rough. People you know, I take it?
Hope they've just got another year of ADSO left, and can try the civilian match next year.
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What's a UMO?
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Undersea Medical Officer, a kind of Navy GMO.
3 year orders. They spend some time getting extra training re: dive medicine (much as flight surgeons get some flight time and aviation physiology training). Some get to do some very cool stuff, but unfortunately some of the billets they have to fill are turdlicious.
There is an explanation for this sharp rise in alternates.
Many of those with orders written for 3 years (CONUS UMOs and flight surgeons) are being held to that obligation. Historically, they would be released from these orders after 2 years to return to military residency. This year, however, few were released to return to GME training after 2 years because of operational shortages. In fact, the vast majority were not allowed to return to residency early. GMESB results in this subgroup were irrelevant.
Those who were blocked were listed as alternates.
Many of those with orders written for 3 years (CONUS UMOs and flight surgeons) are being held to that obligation. Historically, they would be released from these orders after 2 years to return to military residency. This year, however, few were released to return to GME training after 2 years because of operational shortages. In fact, the vast majority were not allowed to return to residency early. GMESB results in this subgroup were irrelevant.
Those who were blocked were listed as alternates.
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I can state with a great degree of certainty that orders are not always written for 3 years. In fact all of my flight surgeon friends had 2 year orders. The only ones who had 3 year orders were those who went to training commands or non-deployable CONUS billets.
My orders as well specifically had a PRD of 2 yrs.
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Good point. See also "UMO - reviewed previous threads" thread.
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Just went back and re-read the original. I think I'm saying the same thing, I didn't read your wording correctly as I think you were pointing out that those with three year orders were CONUS billets. I would change that to read non-operational billets though.
So people who get orders to clinics, training squadrons, etc are usually for 3 years and last year they did the same in regards to not letting people out at the 2 year mark (at least the handful I knew were in that boat). You have to be careful of what orders you take if you have the option.
CONUS UMO billets are for 3 years regardless of operational status. All UMOCs in my class received 3 year orders and this wasn't presented as optional. Flight surgery may be different, but I don't know. Operational UMOs were among those blocked from returning to residency. I can assure you of this because I am one of them.
I understand their manning predicament and am not bitter. I posted because this GMESB data is misleading if all "alternates" are assumed to be legitimate.
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