Alternative to the ABA

[BLADEMDA]

When it comes to maintaining board certification, physicians will have a new avenue.

The National Board of Physicians and Surgeons (NBPAS), created in 2015 to give physicians an alternative to traditional recertification efforts, recently announced that the Joint Commission has acknowledged the organization as a credentialing body. Deemed a “Designated Equivalent Source Agency” by the national accrediting body, NBPAS can now be used by hospitals and health systems for physician credentialing and privileging requirements.

Karen Schatten, associate director at NBPAS, said in an interview that the announcement is significant to all board-certified physicians nationwide, “as NBPAS provides a choice for recertification that’s evidence-based, clinically relevant, nationally recognized, and less burdensome.”

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[BLADEMDA]

NBPAS certification is $189 for a two year certification, and renewed every two years thereafter.
*Discounts are available for fellows and military.

Certification Criteria | National Board of Physicians and Surgeons (NBPAS)

Learn about NBPAS certification criteria. Understand requirements for physician and surgeon certification.

nbpas.org

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is a good thing as it will put pressure on the ABA to make recertification easier over time.

 

[Ashers]

I personally know a lot of physicians in other specialties who have joined it. I don't know any anesthesiologists .

 

[Guillemot]

Do insurance companies accept it?
Do credentialing committees accept it?
State boards?
How does Does Rand Paul feel about it?

 

[BLADEMDA]

NBPAS IS NOW ACCEPTED BY URAC AND NCQA​

One of the main limitations in the acceptance of NBPAS by hospital credentialing committees is the fact that private insurance carriers couldn't get credentialed by their credentialing bodies if they didn't use ABMS credentialed physicians only. Hospitals were very hesitant to allow medical staff who were not qualified to get paid by insurance carriers as they feel that this puts their patients at risk for surprise bills. Fortunately, NBPAS has now obtained acceptance by NCQA and URAC which are the main credentialing services for insurance carriers. This paves the way for physicians to have a choice between the ABMS certification or NBPAS and still get paid.

 

[BLADEMDA]

ABMS Response to NBPAS Claim to Equivalency of Board Certification | American Board of Medical Specialties

ABMS disagrees with the misleading assertion that NBPAS' recertification provides a means of continuing ABMS board certification or is equivalent to ABMS board certification. Claims of equivalence to ABMS certification or that NBPAS is a means to maintain ABMS Member Board certification are...

www.abms.org

ABMS is shaking in their boots.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I am planning on joining this new organization in just 2years. I see no need to continue with the farce of MOCA and endless simulations.

 

[secretasianman]

Word on the street is that our large California based multispecialty medical group is looking into this as an option. Crossing fingers !

 

[Outrigger]

Is it going to be as woke as the ABA?

 

[Dr. Rude]

Is it going to be as woke as the ABA?

NBPAS is definitely not woke.

 

[Zekchar]

I am planning on joining this new organization in just 2years. I see no need to continue with the farce of MOCA and endless simulations.

I'm going to have to disagree.

If we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA is very easy to maintain and requires very little time. A lot is made about the cost of being enrolled but I view that as the cost of doing business and if we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA admission isn't that expensive comapred to our overall income. Thus you and others make waaay too big a deal about it.

At the same time, ocassionally I learn something new while doing MOCA questions and quite frankly I don't want an anesthesiologist taking care of my husband or my family that can't be bothered to make such a small investment in time towards their self improvement. There are anesthesiology bumpkins in private practice that dont read any journals, keep up with new developments, and are practicing same as they did 30 years ago when they graduated. This is NOT ok and those people should indeed slowly be phased out. It demonstrates a lack of effort since MOCA might take up 30 minutes of my time every 3 months.

 

[OTCAwesome]

I'm going to have to disagree.

If we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA is very easy to maintain and requires very little time. A lot is made about the cost of being enrolled but I view that as the cost of doing business and if we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA admission isn't that expensive comapred to our overall income. Thus you and others make waaay too big a deal about it.

At the same time, ocassionally I learn something new while doing MOCA questions and quite frankly I don't want an anesthesiologist taking care of my husband or my family that can't be bothered to make such a small investment in time towards their self improvement. There are anesthesiology bumpkins in private practice that dont read any journals, keep up with new developments, and are practicing same as they did 30 years ago when they graduated. This is NOT ok and those people should indeed slowly be phased out. It demonstrates a lack of effort since MOCA might take up 30 minutes of my time every 3 months.

I have no problem with the MOCA minute questions. What I do have a problem with is the QI money grab. Basically the only "easy" way for any of us to complete this is to do the online simulation course which IMHO is a huge waste of time for nearly zero benefit to my clinical practice.

 

[nimbus]

The guy who founded NBPAS is an interventional cardiologist. Part of his argument against MOC is that the ABMS required him to maintain his IM certificate in order for him to maintain his cardiology credentials even though he hasn’t practiced IM in years. He’s a proceduralist. He doesn’t care about diabetes management or lymphoma recommendations. He wanted a recertification process that is relevant to his actual day to day practice. I see his point. I’m not up to date on recertification because I’m grandfathered and have a permanent certificate. Do pain docs have to do the same MOCA as anesthesiologists?

 

[Twiggidy]

I'm going to have to disagree.

If we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA is very easy to maintain and requires very little time. A lot is made about the cost of being enrolled but I view that as the cost of doing business and if we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA admission isn't that expensive comapred to our overall income. Thus you and others make waaay too big a deal about it.

At the same time, ocassionally I learn something new while doing MOCA questions and quite frankly I don't want an anesthesiologist taking care of my husband or my family that can't be bothered to make such a small investment in time towards their self improvement. There are anesthesiology bumpkins in private practice that dont read any journals, keep up with new developments, and are practicing same as they did 30 years ago when they graduated. This is NOT ok and those people should indeed slowly be phased out. It demonstrates a lack of effort since MOCA might take up 30 minutes of my time every 3 months.

100% agree......

But the reality is I 95% agree. MOCA is super easy and is what, $250 a year just to answer what like 1 question every 3 days? You definitely learn something new or at very least dust off a few neurons of stuff you already know. ACE questions are an easy source for the CME which you need CME credits anyway for most hospital credentials. I did an entire ACE book once during a long case and it's much easier now that it's app based. Maintain a license? Again, something you have to do anyway.

I knock of 5% because a costly and slightly cumbersome means of maintaining our ABA certification is the Quality Improvement. Yes, big PITA, but at least for the simulation, once I did it, I actually realized I enjoyed it. I basically made a long weekend out of it. The 2nd part I chose are the online simulation, which again, are a PITA but not something that would make me personally jump ship from the ABA. There are other options but the Simulation and Online Simulation seemed like the least hassle to me. Thankfully, my job reimburses me for a very high percentage of purchases meant to maintain certification, so in the end they're pretty much free.

I would hate to see our specialty creep towards the way most physicians treat something like ACLS recertification where they just pay some dude $100 bucks and he sends them cards, but when a real code happens in the hospital they're doing absolutely the wrong thing. "I think I feel a pulse or is it my pulse"....seriously, if you taken this long to ask, continue doing compressions.

 

[deleted875186]

I'm going to have to disagree.

If we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA is very easy to maintain and requires very little time. A lot is made about the cost of being enrolled but I view that as the cost of doing business and if we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA admission isn't that expensive comapred to our overall income. Thus you and others make waaay too big a deal about it.

At the same time, ocassionally I learn something new while doing MOCA questions and quite frankly I don't want an anesthesiologist taking care of my husband or my family that can't be bothered to make such a small investment in time towards their self improvement. There are anesthesiology bumpkins in private practice that dont read any journals, keep up with new developments, and are practicing same as they did 30 years ago when they graduated. This is NOT ok and those people should indeed slowly be phased out. It demonstrates a lack of effort since MOCA might take up 30 minutes of my time every 3 months.

I agree MOCA is easy, but the minimum competence and continuing medical education is already a requirement of state medical licenses. Anything further is just a money grab. Why do my CME activities required every two years for my medical license not enough for ABA anesthesiooogy certification, they make me pay for this question set to use?

 

[Twiggidy]

I agree MOCA is easy, but the minimum competence and continuing medical education is already a requirement of state medical licenses. Anything further is just a money grab. Why do my CME activities required every two years for my medical license not enough for ABA anesthesiooogy certification, they make me pay for this question set to use?

I fairness. I overheard a surgeon talking about his recertification for GS boards and he said he had to go to a place where they let you answer the question set twice. The first time everyone does terrible and the second time is the same set as the first so they ace the second set and pass. Id much prefer our money grab to that money grab 🤣

 

[UscGhost]

100% agree......

But the reality is I 95% agree. MOCA is super easy and is what, $250 a year just to answer what like 1 question every 3 days? You definitely learn something new or at very least dust off a few neurons of stuff you already know. ACE questions are an easy source for the CME which you need CME credits anyway for most hospital credentials. I did an entire ACE book once during a long case and it's much easier now that it's app based. Maintain a license? Again, something you have to do anyway.

I knock of 5% because a costly and slightly cumbersome means of maintaining our ABA certification is the Quality Improvement. Yes, big PITA, but at least for the simulation, once I did it, I actually realized I enjoyed it. I basically made a long weekend out of it. The 2nd part I chose are the online simulation, which again, are a PITA but not something that would make me personally jump ship from the ABA. There are other options but the Simulation and Online Simulation seemed like the least hassle to me. Thankfully, my job reimburses me for a very high percentage of purchases meant to maintain certification, so in the end they're pretty much free.

I would hate to see our specialty creep towards the way most physicians treat something like ACLS recertification where they just pay some dude $100 bucks and he sends them cards, but when a real code happens in the hospital they're doing absolutely the wrong thing. "I think I feel a pulse or is it my pulse"....seriously, if you taken this long to ask, continue doing compressions.

So the argument is that we should just do it because it's easy and not that expensive?

That doesn't explain WHY we are required to do it with no allowable alternative. What if MOCA increases costs to $500 per year?

CME is fine because it's useful and there are paid/free options.

Forcing me to pay $200 per year to answer easy questions that rarely have any utility in my practice is useless.

Alternative viable options are essential to maintaining competition. Maybe this will push MOCA to become cheaper or better.

I see no downside in a viable alternative to the ABA for recert

 

[OB1🤙]

Proud NBPAS diplomate here. My ABA lapses in January and I have no plans of ever renewing it.

The CME I choose for myself impacts my practice much more than MOCA minute ever did.

NBPAS doesn’t mean turning your back on lifelong learning. It means choosing what’s meaningful to yourself. If you find MOCA minute useful- great! You should get to choose to buy it. But you shouldn’t be forced to if you don’t.

 

[Twiggidy]

It will all be very meaningless soon. Remember when “DO” after your name was looked down at? There are more DOs graduating from good residencies now, so, eventually, whether you’re ABA or NBPAS certified won’t mean anything. As said above, do what works for you and your practice

 

[anaesthetic]

It will all be very meaningless soon. Remember when “DO” after your name was looked down at? There are more DOs graduating from good residencies now, so, eventually, whether you’re ABA or NBPAS certified won’t mean anything. As said above, do what works for you and your practice

My goal is to retire soon enough that I won’t have to renew at all.

 

[repititionition]

NBPAS is definitely not woke.

I know some of these guys and yes, co-signing this

 

[secretasianman]

Why do we need to pay someone just to police our lifelong learning? We can keep up with the times just fine by ourselves. Instead of trying to protect the public from the docs, they should be doing so against the throng of newly minted midlevels with variable, oftentimes inadequate education and poor judgment.

Docs: if you don’t do these test questions we’ll take away your ability to practice.

CRNAs/midlevels: there’s a huge provider shortage you can practice at the top of your license and do whatever you want.

 

[Twiggidy]

Why do we need to pay someone just to police our lifelong learning? We can keep up with the times just fine by ourselves. Instead of trying to protect the public from the docs, they should be doing so against the throng of newly minted midlevels with variable, oftentimes inadequate education and poor judgment.

Docs: if you don’t do these test questions we’ll take away your ability to practice.

CRNAs/midlevels: there’s a huge provider shortage you can practice at the top of your license and do whatever you want.

Because if we're being honest here and take into account human nature, 90% of physicians won't do anything to support life long learning, especially those in less academic settings with no responsibility to teach someone else. I get Anesthesia & Analgesia delivered to my home...I would be embarrassed to admit how many times I actually open an issue. So, if things aren't required and somewhat policed, most just wont do it.

 

[nimbus]

Why do we need to pay someone just to police our lifelong learning? We can keep up with the times just fine by ourselves. Instead of trying to protect the public from the docs, they should be doing so against the throng of newly minted midlevels with variable, oftentimes inadequate education and poor judgment.

Docs: if you don’t do these test questions we’ll take away your ability to practice.

CRNAs/midlevels: there’s a huge provider shortage you can practice at the top of your license and do whatever you want.

To be fair, doctors can “practice at the top of their license” too.

Brazilian butt lift death

https://nypost.com/2022/08/11/my-daughter-died-from-a-bbl-at-this-shop-of-horrors/ This story is all sorts of weird. Any physician can perform plastic surgery in NY? Surprising that they advertise no BMI limit.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Death of Cardiologist Spurs Calls For Anesthesia Oversight

Published: Aug. 3, 2022 at 10:37 AM CDT WILMINGTON, N.C. (WECT) - August 3rd marks two years since Henry Patel’s death. The beloved cardiologist was 53 years old when he died from being over-sedated during a routine dental procedure. On this difficult anniversary, Patel’s widow, ****al, is...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[secretasianman]

Because if we're being honest here and take into account human nature, 90% of physicians won't do anything to support life long learning, especially those in less academic settings with no responsibility to teach someone else. I get Anesthesia & Analgesia delivered to my home...I would be embarrassed to admit how many times I actually open an issue. So, if things aren't required and somewhat policed, most just wont do it.

I get your point. But if you are treating this as a public safety issue then maybe the focus should be on mandating education for the least educated practitioners than the most, because what are their requirements? I’m guessing not much at all.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I get your point. But if you are treating this as a public safety issue then maybe the focus should be on mandating education for the least educated practitioners than the most, because what are their requirements? I’m guessing not much at all.

NP requirement: have a pulse. They get a pass to do whatever they want from the AANP.

 

[secretasianman]

Meanwhile we have to pay a tithe for the privilege to take a simulation.

NP requirement: have a pulse. They get a pass to do whatever they want from the AANP.

 

[Twiggidy]

NP requirement: have a pulse. They get a pass to do whatever they want from the AANP.

And for how much we grumble on this site for not wanting to be associated with mid-levels we're trying to do things very similar to what they do. I know the general public/surgeons/admin etc probably don't care that I answer 200 anesthesia questions a year to keep my chops but it certainly won't do "the future of the field" any favors to know we maintain our certification by simply paying a check to someone. Sure, I understand, someone will argue that's what we do know, but i can argue i'm getting some somewhat up to date info out of it

 

[UscGhost]

And for how much we grumble on this site for not wanting to be associated with mid-levels we're trying to do things very similar to what they do. I know the general public/surgeons/admin etc probably don't care that I answer 200 anesthesia questions a year to keep my chops but it certainly won't do "the future of the field" any favors to know we maintain our certification by simply paying a check to someone. Sure, I understand, someone will argue that's what we do know, but i can argue i'm getting some somewhat up to date info out of it

That's fine. But there are paid options for that. Anyone can purchase those ASA questions.

The problem is one organization that has a monopoly and complete control over our ability to earn a living. They can charge us whatever they want and require whatever they want. Our only leverage is a viable alternative. That's a very dangerous scenario

 

[Twiggidy]

That's fine. But there are paid options for that. Anyone can purchase those ASA questions.

The problem is one organization that has a monopoly and complete control over our ability to earn a living. They can charge us whatever they want and require whatever they want. Our only leverage is a viable alternative. That's a very dangerous scenario

All we’re doing is turning into PGA vs LIV. I understand how that can be a good thing but I’ll probably just stick with the PGA lol

 

[aneftp]

If you guys complain about moca. Those who got certified in 2004/2005 are really the most out of luck.

Many people in here do jot realize those who took the original Re certification exam 250 questions got to cross off 50 questions!! So from 2007-2010 test takers. They got to pick and choose 200 out of 250 questions. Thus the passing rate was 98%!!

You can take ur written test as soon as year 7 of ur cycle.

Just giving you guys a history lesson here. As soon as they started counting all the 250 questions. The passing rate dropped to 89%!! A significant drop. So the Aba knew they had a issue. Thus is the reason they changed to moca in end of 2015 (for those certified 2006 onwards).

I follow all the historical data. The Aba hides a lot of that data soon as it’s published.

 

[Ashers]

NBPAS is definitely not woke.

I know some of these guys and yes, co-signing this

This is why I'm considering joining.

I have nothing against MOCA minute except so many questions have nothing to do with my practice. How many times do I have to say "I don't do OB." When they ask if it's relevant. (The OB questions disappeared for a few years, and now they're back.) The simulations weren't beneficial for me (in person or computer, I've done both). I recertify in 2 years.

 

[abolt18]

This is why I'm considering joining.

I have nothing against MOCA minute except so many questions have nothing to do with my practice. How many times do I have to say "I don't do OB." When they ask if it's relevant. (The OB questions disappeared for a few years, and now they're back.) The simulations weren't beneficial for me (in person or computer, I've done both). I recertify in 2 years.

And how about those Joint Commission questions?!?!! As worthless as it gets.

 

[Southpaw]

And how about those Joint Commission questions?!?!! As worthless as it gets.

I deeply resent anything Joint Commission related. Especially on some CME BS I have to do.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Proud NBPAS diplomate here. My ABA lapses in January and I have no plans of ever renewing it.

The CME I choose for myself impacts my practice much more than MOCA minute ever did.

NBPAS doesn’t mean turning your back on lifelong learning. It means choosing what’s meaningful to yourself. If you find MOCA minute useful- great! You should get to choose to buy it. But you shouldn’t be forced to if you don’t.

I agree with you. I do ACE and SEE every year, so that's 120 CME credits which clearly keeps me up to date without wasting my time.

 

[vector2]

If you think the q's are dogsht here's your chance to step up

 

[dannyboy1]

Proud NBPAS diplomate here. My ABA lapses in January and I have no plans of ever renewing it.

The CME I choose for myself impacts my practice much more than MOCA minute ever did.

NBPAS doesn’t mean turning your back on lifelong learning. It means choosing what’s meaningful to yourself. If you find MOCA minute useful- great! You should get to choose to buy it. But you shouldn’t be forced to if you don’t.

I’m amazed how many people are willing to die on this hill. The facts are that the ABA certification is accepted everywhere. It’s cheap and easy to maintain. Most practices will pay for it as CME/credentialing. It it a scam? Absolutely. So is renewing your medical lisence. For that matter so is renewing your vehicle registration and drivers license. It is what it is.

 

[Dr. Rude]

I’m amazed how many people are willing to die on this hill. The facts are that the ABA certification is accepted everywhere. It’s cheap and easy to maintain. Most practices will pay for it as CME/credentialing. It it a scam? Absolutely. So is renewing your medical lisence. For that matter so is renewing your vehicle registration and drivers license. It is what it is.

It is not much of a risk to stop participating if you are comfortable with the idea that your current job will be your last job.

 

[kidthor]

Most practices will pay for it as CME/credentialing.

My academic group reimburses nothing for CME, credentialing, and so forth. It deters people from wanting to do anything that costs money, whether it be ABA MOCA, ASA meetings, licensing, maintaining ACLS/PALS/BLS, and so forth. So to have a cheaper less involved option is of real interest to many - these things all add up.

 

[dannyboy1]

I'm going to have to disagree.

If we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA is very easy to maintain and requires very little time. A lot is made about the cost of being enrolled but I view that as the cost of doing business and if we both agree to tell the truth, MOCA admission isn't that expensive comapred to our overall income. Thus you and others make waaay too big a deal about it.

At the same time, ocassionally I learn something new while doing MOCA questions and quite frankly I don't want an anesthesiologist taking care of my husband or my family that can't be bothered to make such a small investment in time towards their self improvement. There are anesthesiology bumpkins in private practice that dont read any journals, keep up with new developments, and are practicing same as they did 30 years ago when they graduated. This is NOT ok and those people should indeed slowly be phased out. It demonstrates a lack of effort since MOCA might take up 30 minutes of my time every 3 months.

We can all agree that all CME/MOCA is pay to play. Most online CME lets you have unlimited attempts to answer the question until you get it right. Same with the online “QI” simulation. MOCA questions are easily googled and can be done in the comfort of your own home with a second device open (and the answer will pop up in way less than 60 seconds). The process weeds out nobody. I’ve yet to hear of the physician who lost board certification because they couldn’t hack MOCA. That being said, it is what it is. I’m not getting that excited over $210 per year.