Altruism

[nick_carraway]

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Is altruism helping someone else w/o personal benefit or helping someone else at a disadvantage to yourself?

It's an important distinction for Ohio State's secondary.

 

[LC17]

I'm thinking they mean you must have a genuine concern to help others. You should want to help them and not care to benefit yourself.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Is altruism helping someone else w/o personal benefit or helping someone else at a disadvantage to yourself?

It's an important distinction for Ohio State's secondary.

Ever heard of a dictionary?

 

[nick_carraway]

I'm thinking they mean you must have a genuine concern to help others. You should want to help them and not care to benefit yourself.

Thanks. It makes it easier to write the essay as long as they don't want an example where I was put at a disadvantage for helping someone... since... I've never been the monkey who sounds the alarm and gets eaten by the jaguar first.

 

[nick_carraway]

Ever heard of a dictionary?

No. A dictionwhatnow?

Anyway, the dictionary has two definitions. As a behavioral major, I was more familiar with the disadvantage definition and I think most science majors are as well.

In this case, I wasn't sure if the more general definition was better or the more specific definition.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Well the dictionary has two definitions

I know, I was being facetious.

A behavioral major? So basically you're a glorified psych major?

 

[nick_carraway]

I know, I was being facetious.

A behavioral major? So basically you're a glorified psych major?

Haha physiology and neurobio... I guess I am, then.

My life's been a sad, cruel joke for the past 4 years.

That puts my life in perspective, Murphy... where's my suicide note...

 

[Mace1370]

This question bugged me because true altruism means you do something for someone else with no benefit to yourself. That's all well and good, but no one actually does this. Everyone has a reason for doing something they call "altruistic," whether that is emotional gratification, the bragging rights that "they care", or one of a million other reasons.

 

[medking]

This question bugged me because true altruism means you do something for someone else with no benefit to yourself. That's all well and good, but no one actually does this. Everyone has a reason for doing something they call "altruistic," whether that is emotional gratification, the bragging rights that "they care", or one of a million other reasons.

I mostly agree with you. I wouldn't say that "no one actually does it". You never know. But yes, I have yet to believe that true altruism exists (atleast for humans) because of your reasoning.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Haha physiology and neurobio... I guess I am, then.

My life's been a sad, cruel joke for the past 4 years.

That puts my life in perspective, Murphy... where's my suicide note...

Ah....I asked because one of the schools a friend of mine attends calls their psych majors "behavioral science" majors......

 

[ooklarom]

Is altruism helping someone else w/o personal benefit or helping someone else at a disadvantage to yourself?

It's an important distinction for Ohio State's secondary.

Not that I am an expert by any standard, but I don't think there is a correct definition per se. They're probably more interested in how you argue your position.

 

[adamMD]

This question bugged me because true altruism means you do something for someone else with no benefit to yourself. That's all well and good, but no one actually does this. Everyone has a reason for doing something they call "altruistic," whether that is emotional gratification, the bragging rights that "they care", or one of a million other reasons.

I take it you read Richard Dawkin's 'the selfish gene'. Personally, I believe if someone wants to help others, with no thought of reward, just because it makes them feel good inside, well damnit, that's altruism. There's nothing sinister or underhanded about it.

 

[Jaded03]

No, I think you misunderstand. 😛 A freshman proofread one of my secondaries and jumped on me using altruism (he took intro bio).

Take a look at these definitions:
WHAT MADE ME KEEP ALTRUISM: (I suggest you use these definitions to guide your essay)
-unselfish concern for the needs or interests of others, providing gratification vicariously or from their responses
-An action or institution designed to promote human welfare.
-Acting for the sake of other people's interests.
-doing good deeds and service work for others out of the goodness of one's own heart.
-the quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others
-the view that the well-being of others should have as much importance for us as the well-being of ourselves
-individual derives utility for themselves from the act of providing for others.

WHAT MADE ME SEE WHY ALTRUISM SEEMS INAPPROPRIATE:
-A form of behaviour in which an individual risks lowering its fitness for the benefit of another.
-A behavior that costs the doer and benefits others
-Acting to benefit others while disregarding one’s own welfare.
-Conferral of a benefit on other individuals at an apparent cost to the benefactor.
-Behavior carried out to benefit anotherat some sacrifice to oneself, and without, or not primarily because of, the expectation of rewards from external sources

 

[Mace1370]

I take it you read Richard Dawkin's 'the selfish gene'. Personally, I believe if someone wants to help others, with no thought of reward, just because it makes them feel good inside, well damnit, that's altruism. There's nothing sinister or underhanded about it.

No, I haven't read it, but the idea that true altruism doesn't exist is hardly new. As to the second part of your statement, the "because it makes them feel good inside" is the reward. That's my whole point. I never said it was sinister or underhanded.

-unselfish concern for the needs or interests of others, providing gratification vicariously or from their responses

Out of curiosity, how is the concern unselfish if the concerned person gets gratification from being concerned?

 

[amartinezz43]

Is altruism helping someone else w/o personal benefit or helping someone else at a disadvantage to yourself?

It's an important distinction for Ohio State's secondary.

i see it as putting the welfare of others before your own.....i remember that question from last years secondary.......

 

[MattD]

Out of curiosity, how is the concern unselfish if the concerned person gets gratification from being concerned?

Heard of the principle of double effect? If the person's action was unselfish, as in there was no EXPECTATION of reward, then any UNEXPECTED reward subsequently delivered does not negate the unselfishness of the act.

Actually that's not double effect. Double effect would be if the actor knew there would be a reward, but their internal motivation was not to earn that reward. In that case, the action would be unselfish because their INTENT was not to gain a reward, even though they were aware that a reward would come.

Either way, the definition you're concerned about is entirely valid.


Of course, as Mr. Heinlein put it, "Being generous is inborn; being altruistic is a learned perversity. No resemblance—"
I dare you to use that in your secondary 🙂

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I dare you to use that in your secondary

I will.....

 

[adamMD]

No, I haven't read it, but the idea that true altruism doesn't exist is hardly new. As to the second part of your statement, the "because it makes them feel good inside" is the reward. That's my whole point. I never said it was sinister or underhanded.

I didn't mean to say you said it was sinister or underhanded. I did read 'the selfish gene' and for a while actually felt that altruism was a complete crock. But I think that if feeling good inside the reward it is surely altruism. There are plenty of times that I will help someone and honestly realize that I will never see that person again in my life. In that case, altruism exists. Helping others to add ECs to a med school application is far from altruistic though... I wonder if med schools realize this?

 

[medking]

I didn't mean to say you said it was sinister or underhanded. I did read 'the selfish gene' and for a while actually felt that altruism was a complete crock. But I think that if feeling good inside the reward it is surely altruism. There are plenty of times that I will help someone and honestly realize that I will never see that person again in my life. In that case, altruism exists. Helping others to add ECs to a med school application is far from altruistic though... I wonder if med schools realize this?

For starts, here is my quick definition of altruism: Helping others while not expecting anything (tangible or intangible) in return.

I dont think it matters whether you will see or never see a person again. It's the fact that you felt good.

Why did you feel good??? Is it the satisfaction from following the principles you were taught when you were young? Is it because you felt the duty to help? In any case, if you did the act because of these things then I dont think it's altruism.

Plus, you are expecting to feel good (which is a reward in my mind). Would you really do something to help others if you arent going to feel good in the end??? I dont think so.

BUT, like i've mentioned before, I wont say that altruism doesnt exist because it might.

I mean altruism sounds great, but it's just that I dont believe Ive seen it yet. Actually, I dont think its not possible for humans to achieve. (ie: iunno about animals)

But that's just my opinion =)

BTW, I like the concept of helping and sacrificing stuff for others.

 

[F12]

OP, no offense, but with a 3.27, you would be better off looking into a post-bac/master's program rather than sweating over a secondary.

 

[nick_carraway]

OP, no offense, but with a 3.27, you would be better off looking into a post-bac/master's program rather than sweating over a secondary.

Thanks for your tough love. I already have a post-bacc program picked for Fall 2009 if I don't have any luck this time around. Rather than giving up on my secondaries though, I'm going to push ahead and see what happens. I'd rather try to write a good essay that I can use in the future than sit around and cry about my 3.27

 

[wood41]

for what essay is this altruism talk about?

 

[Juice42]

for what essay is this altruism talk about?

OSU.. atleast in my case.

 

[whoisthedrizzle]

Is altruism helping someone else w/o personal benefit or helping someone else at a disadvantage to yourself?

both.

 

[TheSky]

This reminds me of that Friends episode where Phoebe was trying to prove that a selfless act of altruism existed, whereas Joey said it did not exist.

 

[MattD]

I will.....

Heinlein had some of the greatest quotes 🙂 Another:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze new problems, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

It's the last sentence that makes it profound 😀

 

[DropkickMurphy]

die gallantly

I've yet to see a gallant death (and I've seen WAY too many people die). There is nothing gallant about it. Gallantry is simply another way of making it not seem quite so pointless. But other than that I really like that quote. 👍

 

[chickenlittle84]

Thanks for your tough love. I already have a post-bacc program picked for Fall 2009 if I don't have any luck this time around. Rather than giving up on my secondaries though, I'm going to push ahead and see what happens. I'd rather try to write a good essay that I can use in the future than sit around and cry about my 3.27

You have a great attitude. People have gotten in with your numbers, and some have even gotten interview invites this cycle. 👍