Always been curious- Why so few "exotic" vets?

[Xenophylia]

As a reptile hobbyist, I've always found it difficult to find vets that are willing/able to treat "exotic"animals. Most look at you like you have 3 eyeballs if you ask. I am always wondering why there aren't more vets that deal with such animals. Reptile shows and the hobby in general seem to be flourishing judging by the lines waiting to get in the reptile expos. Is the money just not there? Is it something the schools are reluctant to teach? My pets are well cared for and as such only visit a vet as a last resort and those visits rarely end well usually due to the age of the animals. But it would be nice to have better access to an expert. Just curious... X.

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[CalliopeDVM]

Is the money just not there?

Pretty much, yeah. There simply aren't enough people who have those pets and who are willing to see a vet and spend money on them. There are almost 500 members of the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Vets, but 500 members across the entire US isn't very many. And the veterinary needs of reptiles are significantly different from those of dogs and cats (let alone other mammalian pets) that a vet really either has to be "all in" to have the up to date knowledge and equipment to work on them, or not deal with them at all......there's really no half way.

 

[DVMDream]

My pets are well cared for and as such only visit a vet as a last resort and those visits rarely end well usually due to the age of the animals.

I mean, you basically summed it up here. Most "exotic" pet owners aren't bringing their pets in until they are on death's door. Then they either expect miracles for no to little cost or just euthanize. It is akin to the people who own a cat for 12 years only bring it in as a kitten then 12 years later bring in an emaciated, raisin of a cat and stare at you like you have 15 heads when you recommend diagnostics because the cat has "always been healthy" and well, "it is old".

Costs a lot to keep specific medications or concentrations of medications on the shelves for an exotic pet to only use them a handful of times in a month or perhaps only every other month. Plus, depending on the exotic species, there often isn't a lot known about them, so medicine is a bit of trail and error. Higher chance these species die suddenly, so PLIT if you do see a number of exotics is higher in cost. And you have heard of a "crazy cat person"..... well "crazy exotics people" definitely exists and can be worse. 😉

 

[Xenophylia]

I'm probably an odd one in most respects. To me, being a pet owner is a contract. The pet is my responsibility. I love my guys. Money is no object to me for care, and though I hate it when they become sick, each one is a learning experience and I will do whatever is necessary if the animal has the chance to become healthy again. Most of my pets simply die of old age as they tend to live well past their "documented expiration dates" which I'm very grateful for. But of course there are unfortunate, unavoidable things that I can't deal with- egg binding and and growths/tumors to name a few that I've encountered. I've gotten a bit more aggressive about what I can do for them as well out of simple necessity. Fortunately as a pharmacist I'm able to compound medications to appropriate doses. OTC Baytril for birds has been helpful on many occasions. Even saved a juvenile bearded from a bout of "Yellow Fungus" which many say cannot be cured. Most of my current pets are rescue reptiles since I'm known in the area I get phone calls from strangers wanting to give me their (unwanted) pets. That makes me sad since I've seen what these pets have to offer. In any case, thanks for the responses...

 

[Minnerbelle]

Also, most of exotic health issues can be attributed to husbandry, and that is very annoying. Most people want quick fixes and will not actually follow through with the husbandry needs of their exotic pets because it either costs too much or takes too much effort. You couldn’t pay me enough in the form of exam fees to deal with that **** on a daily basis. Yup sorry dude, a chameleon that is plopped into a 10 gallon tank with a heat rock and a bowl of water and a couple branches isn’t going to do so hot. If people can’t be bothered to research before acquiring these animals, most of the time, they won’t be bothered to change much after the fact. And they get all pissy you can’t help them.

Like... a self mutilating screaming parrot living in a small cage in a dark room where the owners are gone for most of the day and can’t deal with them once they’re home because the screaming and self mutilating is too much? There isn’t enough psychiatric drugs out there in the world to gork the poor thing enough that it stops being a problem.

Also, it’s hard to be an excellent doctor in just one species. I feel like I am overall great with dogs/cats, but as a gp who needs to treat everything from their teeth to their endocrine issues to their regular WellCare, there are certain body systems I feel like I am weaker in and can always improve on. I don’t like feeling like a bad doctor, and I would be with exotics because I just can’t practice at the level of competence I am comfortable with if I add on additional species of animals. I’d feel like I’m doing them a disservice.

 

[Xenophylia]

Yeah....even I see a lot of people owning/ buying this stuff who should never do so. Many of my rescues are the result of that. When the animals become too much work or expense, the people lose interest. Apparently its not uncommon for people to just simply let their pets go. That means certain death during a PA winter assuming the species would survive anyway. I rescued a pair of juvenile iguanas whose owner was evicted from his apartment and was going to let them go in the middle of winter. And those people who would let a reptile (known for taking a long time to expire and waste away) suffer rather than spend the money to euthanize the animal who is ultimately dying as a result of the poor care it was given. This kind of stuff breaks my heart. I take my reptiles to nursing homes and give talks on them occasionally and my advice is to tell people to think twice before purchasing reptiles (and I understand birds are pretty similar as far as needs...). I can't imagine seeing dogs and cats abuse like this though I'm sure it is probably common as well...

 

[Xenophylia]

I’d feel like I’m doing them a disservice.

Probably no worse than what the owners have done already.... I think it would be hard to be a vet for this reason- seeing the neglect and abuse on a day to day basis would probably kill me...

 

[DVMDream]

My pets are well cared for and as such only visit a vet as a last resort and those visits rarely end well usually due to the age of the animals.

I'm probably an odd one in most respects. To me, being a pet owner is a contract. The pet is my responsibility. I love my guys. Money is no object to me for care, and though I hate it when they become sick, each one is a learning experience and I will do whatever is necessary if the animal has the chance to become healthy again.

Which is it? Visiting a vet as a last resort is NEVER a good idea. You visit as a first resort if you are responsible with the pet. I don't know why people think waiting longer and longer and longer and then going "well coming here was my last resort" is a good idea. Geeze, thanks, now something I could have fixed 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months ago fairly "easily" becomes something that may not be fixable....hence why your "visits rarely end well". You are contradicting yourself.

Also, the "money is no object".... as vets we hear that daily. Every day. All day long. Not from every client. But the clients we do hear it from..... it means they aren't paying or they don't have money. 100% of the time. The number of times I tell a client that I will get them a treatment plan with an estimate for care and they go "oh no, I don't need that, money isn't a concern, do whatever". It means they REALLY NEED that estimate. 100% of these people that didn't "need" an estimate because "money isn't a concern" end up leaving doing very minimal or doing nothing.

Most of my pets simply die of old age as they tend to live well past their "documented expiration dates" which I'm very grateful for.

No one dies of "old age". Nothing. As we age, things "fail" but we don't die of age. We die of heart failure, renal disease, cancer, etc. Sure, there isn't much we can do to treat some of the things that creep up in animals of all species as they age, but sure would benefit to visit a vet and be sure there aren't things we can do. I can keep most chronic renal failure cats going for 3-6+ years after diagnosis. There are things we can do for certain "old age" diseases that still allow good quality of life, depending on the disease and the patient.

Fortunately as a pharmacist I'm able to compound medications to appropriate doses. OTC Baytril for birds has been helpful on many occasions. Even saved a juvenile bearded from a bout of "Yellow Fungus" which many say cannot be cured.

Ah, this explains a lot. The I am going to medicate my animals myself at home and then if it doesn't help I will go to the vet. This makes our job harder, just so you know. Luckily, treating your own pet isn't illegal (yet), but if you do this to other people's pets and then give those pets back to people ..... that is illegal you are then practicing veterinary medicine without a license. So be cautious with what you "treat" at home. And just go to the damn vet at the first sign something is going on.... maybe then less of those visits wouldn't end well....

Here is a link to finding an exotic specialist..... hopefully there is one nearby you...

Find an ABVP Specialist | American Board of Veterinary Practitioners

 

[Trilt]

I treat exotics. I actually really enjoy it as a super generalist field, because that's what I enjoy most about veterinary medicine.

But it comes with a ton of required extra knowledge (I spent a huge chunk of my time in vet school in exotics classes, attending exotics conferences, reading exotics boards on VIN, doing exotics externships...), the mortality rate is way higher (and mentally straining), and oh my god reptile owners in specific are notoriously a PITA. Even at exotics only clinics it's like 50/50 if reptile appointments will show up, and often they're sick as hell and have been for months and it's pulling teeth to get any sort of diagnostics done. It's not something a dog/cat vet can just dabble in and do a particularly good job. Just a different field. Just like I wouldn't try to treat horses at this point.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Even at exotics only clinics it's like 50/50 if reptile appointments will show up, and often they're sick as hell and have been for months

But it takes forever for them to die when you’re actually trying to kill them...

 

[Xenophylia]

And for those of you who simply "liked" the above clown's response- THANKS FOR NOTHING. I now see why many have given up on your profession. And to those who kept things respectful and civil, thanks as well....

 

[CalliopeDVM]

You asked for this.

Actually, YOU asked for it.

 

[Xenophylia]

I treat exotics. I actually really enjoy it as a super generalist field, because that's what I enjoy most about veterinary medicine.

But it comes with a ton of required extra knowledge (I spent a huge chunk of my time in vet school in exotics classes, attending exotics conferences, reading exotics boards on VIN, doing exotics externships...), the mortality rate is way higher (and mentally straining), and oh my god reptile owners in specific are notoriously a PITA. Even at exotics only clinics it's like 50/50 if reptile appointments will show up, and often they're sick as hell and have been for months and it's pulling teeth to get any sort of diagnostics done. It's not something a dog/cat vet can just dabble in and do a particularly good job. Just a different field. Just like I wouldn't try to treat horses at this point.

Good for you for taking the time to specialize. Apparently the (1%) of exotic owners who take their responsibility seriously thank you.

 

[Xenophylia]

19 minutes ago
Actually, YOU asked for it.

How do you figure? Do you really look down on your clients this much as to judge them before you even meet them? Or are "puppy and kitty" owners sooo much different? I simply presented a situation showing that for many animals, you can't even get proper care if you want it. Treating my own animals is a LAST RESORT. The only option I was given from my exotic vet was to euthanize my bearded with yellow fungus".. That animal is still alive and in perfect health 3 years later. I owe my vet nothing for that. NOTHING, Does that make you happy as a professional? To generalize about ALL pet owners is a terrible disservice to them. It disappoints me greatly, and I guess I expected a bit more compassion. I suppose- much like regular medicine vet med is just a "business" now... Again, disappointing.

 

[DVMDream]

Ok, buddy- I knew one of you would surface. You asked for this. It's funny- vets get all butthurt when people do anything for their own pets when the owners really have no other options. I don't want to hear about the legality **** when the alternative is NOTHING. And no, I don't treat other people's pets. One of my rules in they must surrender them to me since obviously at that point they are incapable of caring for the pets themselves. We have a vet on every street corner in my area, yet I have to drive AT LEAST 100 miles to find one who anyone semi competent who will offer an of their precious time to charge me a premium to treat something out of the normal "puppy and kitty" box. It must be nice to pick and chose your patients- most medical professionals don't have that luxury. Responses like yours are terribly ignorant and anger me greatly- it shows your total arrogance, which unfortunately is exactly what I expect from one of your profession. And as far as the "dying of old age"- when my vet finds out how old the animal is he typically throws up his hands and suggests providing hospice care at home. So whether you like that response or not, THAT is what I have to work with. I've spent thousands of dollars on my pets. HOW DARE YOU lump me in with those who don't show up for appointments or wait until the animal is dead to appear at your shrine for treatment. HOW DARE YOU.

DVMDream- you come off as a total prick. I feel sorry for your patients and their owners if that is your true demeanor. I'm sorry you had to cast a shadow on this discussion as it was enlightening and civil before you showed up with your judgments and worthless opinions. You are the reason people stay away from vets. You are more of a DVM Nightmare....

You asked why so few exotic vets.... I just pointed out why using your own words/thoughts..... You, per your own words, do the things that are reasons why many of us won't touch an "exotic" pet.

And to charge you a "premimum"? You are really going to complain about cost, Mr. Pharmacist? Really? Because I guarantee your salary far surpasses any veterinary salary even those of board-certified vets and YOU are going to complain that someone that has extra knowledge in a species will dare to charge for that? Let me guess you probably believe you've paid for "a wing" of the clinic too? 🙄

Maybe if people wouldn't think vet care should be a "last resort" and they actually dared to listen to us instead of medicating their pets on their own, there would be more people willing to see exotic pets. Ever think of that? Ever think that if you actually listened to us, came to us at the first sign of an issue and didn't self medicate we might be able to do our jobs more effectively and thus be able to expand out and see more variety?

Did you even bother checking into the link I provided to try to help you? Or could you not see through your butthurt?

I don't get to "pick my patients" either, if I did, there are many a dogs that I would have stopped seeing altogether due to severe aggression. As in I need to treat them like wild damn animals in the confines of a general practice. Oh and these animals are out in society, unchecked, because the owners refuse to address the aggression. And it is so highly comical for you, as a pharmacist, to sit there and claim that vets are "picking their patients".... as you are trained in a single damn species. That is hilarious. You don't even realize how hypocritical you sound.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh and as far as clients/patients not liking me.....

I just had an owner profusely thank me for spending extra time with her to figure out something better for her cat. And I diagnosed an underlying reason for why the cat might be having repeat otitis instead of just filling meds.

Plus, I saved a dog owner an "extra restraint" charge because I finally got the damn assistants to stop crowding the poor dog and just let her be. She didn't like being restrained, if you eased up it was easy to treat her.

I do my job damn well, but I also don't sugar coat anything when talking to clients. They need to know when something is stupid or wrong and they need to stop doing it. I don't care if it doesn't give them the warm/fuzzies, but I am not there to give warm and fuzzies, I am there to advocate for my patient and if that means being a bit firm/blunt with the owner, so be it. I actually get better responses and follow up if I am firm and blunt than I do with the "kind and beat around the bush about how you are harming/neglecting your own pet" approach.

 

[Xenophylia]

The "premium" part irks me, not because of the additional skill required- I respect that- but because I'm usually just euthanizing my pet anyway. Sadly, most of my vet visits don't even result in a concrete diagnosis it ANY diagnosis.. Maybe the thinking is the owner just doesn't care? I agree to all labs/ diagnostic tests that are recommended..as with humans that is the cornerstone to diagnosis. Most of the results are forgotten and/ or the animal has been euthanized before obtaining results. And those results are usually never disclosed to me. As such, I as the owner learn nothing. If something is a husbandry issue- I want to know about it. The vet I go to is very well known in my area- likely because he's the only game in town. Again, I suppose this is a result of my vet assuming the knowledge will be worthless to me by "generalizing" me to a typical owner.

On each new visit, I'm handed a guide to proper care of reptiles. I have a collection of them now. I'm doing everything they say, and then some. The guy never remembers my previous visits, even for the same animal. It's always like starting over- the client is written off as completely ignorant. Again, that generalization irks me. The concept that NO ONE can be a competent owner is what bothers me. I get that you see that a lot. I see it at the reptile expos. Lots of people should NOT own these pets. Most of my rescues are from such people. Is it too much to ask to consider the fact that some owners are competent?

I'm not here to make enemies. I simply wanted to present a situation that I'm guessing few ever really consider. I agree with your approach to "no warm fuzzies". Trust me, I'd be grateful for even THAT MUCH. These pets are a learning experience daily, and it bothers me to euthanize one and learn nothing as to what caused the illness. Sadly, you'd probably be exactly the kind of exotic vet I'd admire...

 

[DVMDream]

The premium part irks me, not because of the additional skill required- I respect that- but because I'm usually just euthanizing my pet anyway my vet visits don't even result in a concrete diagnosis. I agree to all labs/ diagnostic tests. Most of the results are forgotten and/ or the animal has been euthanized before obtaining results.

If you know you are seeking euthanasia only, call to closer clinics. I'll euthanize most anything (no emus and no tortoises and maybe a few others). Some of the "smaller" reptiles and all small mammals I'll euthanize.

 

[DVMDream]

The other thing to remember is that many of the corporate clinics don't have the equipment to see the exotic pets even if the vet wanted to. And many won't order supplies for them until the vet can prove it will be profitable and they won't just sit on the shelves unused. And it is impossible to show something will be profitable if you can't have it to begin with. So there are some who would treat exotics but their hands are tied.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh and a "premium" charge, even for euthanasia, isn't a bad thing, some of these species, as was indicated above, are very difficult to actually euthanize. Tortoises being a good example. Snakes are difficult as well. We have actually found a still beating heart on a snake during a necropsy once despite the snake having no responses/reflexes and no detectable heart beat via ultrasound prior to the necropsy.

 

[Xenophylia]

I've said to people in the past. I'd give up my animals in a heartbeat if it were made law that NO ONE could own them. I think many owners do a disservice to the animals by owning them at all. Again, it breaks my heart to see them suffer.

 

[Xenophylia]

Actually, YOU asked for it.

The other thing to remember is that many of the corporate clinics don't have the equipment to see the exotic pets even if the vet wanted to. And many won't order supplies for them until the vet can prove it will be profitable and they won't just sit on the shelves unused. And it is impossible to show something will be profitable if you can't have it to begin with. So there are some who would treat exotics but their hands are tied.

Oh, I've worked for corporations my entire career. Trust me, I get that....

 

[Xenophylia]

Oh and a "premium" charge, even for euthanasia, isn't a bad thing, some of these species, as was indicated above, are very difficult to actually euthanize. Tortoises being a good example. Snakes are difficult as well. We have actually found a still beating heart on a snake during a necropsy once despite the snake having no responses/reflexes and no detectable heart beat via ultrasound prior to the necropsy.

My vet keeps the animal for several hours after the event and does tests to insure that the animal is indeed deceased. Although that's clearly not the outcome I hope for, I certainly respect that knowing about reptiles' odd metabolism. That make sense to me, and again I certainly have no problem paying for that expertise...

 

[Xenophylia]

DVMDream-I think I may have hit a nerve with the "premium" mention. I apologize for that. And your post did hit a raw nerve with me. Again, I apologize. I have no desire to fight with you. Much of what you've said since your initial post make perfect sense to me. But if I can convince one person that not all exotic owners are complete idiots then I've achieved something...

 

[DVMDream]

DVMDream-I think I may have hit a nerve with the "premium" mention. I apologize for that. And your post did hit a raw nerve with me. Again, I apologize. I have no desire to fight with you. Much of what you've said since your initial post make perfect sense to me. But if I can convince one person that not all exotic owners are complete idiots then I've achieved something...

No, I don't think all exotic owners are idiots. Just like any large group of people, some will be idiots, but many others are quite smart. I mean there are plenty of idiot cat owners out there just as there are plenty that aren't idiots. 😉 No worries.

I think your heart is in the right place, I just wanted to point out that even some of the things you mentioned are why vets don't see exotics. Mostly the "vet is a last resort", it gets frustrating only seeing a pet in crisis when we could have done more prior to that point. I totally understand your frustration as well though, in that, it can be difficult to find a vet for your exotic pet. I wish it weren't difficult, but, unfortunately that is how it is currently. Hopefully that link finds you a vet closer by, if not, continue to follow up with clinics near you occasionally, veterinary staff do move on or new staff can be added, so a clinic that didn't see exotics 6 months ago, could be seeing them now.

 

[gyngyn]

It appears that everyone has had their say.