Am I a bad person for thinking this way?

[doc02]

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OK, first off I'm a guy. This is a relationship question. I will accept any answer as long as it meets one criterion: don't be biased and answer based on "sticking up for your sisterhood" or whatever. Same thing with guys, don't say I'm right just because I'm a guy.

So I used to know this girl about seven years ago and she was really cute and smart. So of course, she's dating some guy (story of my life). She likes me, but not more than the other guy and she let me know everything up front. That's cool and I respect that and I admired her for being honest. I'm a one-woman guy, I'd never cheat on a woman and I'd never respect a woman who would cheat on a guy.

So we go our separate ways and yet I can't stop thinking about her because she was so perfect. Fast forward to now. Now she's not in a relationship. Do I go out with her or not? See, the thing is I can't get it out of my head two things:

1) She chose some other guy over me. I'm always gonna be Mr. Consolation Prize if this goes anywhere. I'm always going to think, "yeah, she's with me ...but only because it didn't work out with Mr. #1." That sucks.

2) Bear with me because this sounds really rude. I want to grow old with someone, not get someone who is old. I have no problem with growing old with someone. I'm not a jerk who wants to dump a wife to get a hot young girlfriend. But when I knew her she was in her mid-20s and now she's getting into her mid-30s. That's not old, of course, in terms of life. But it's old in terms of living. She's already experienced everything. You know? And I don't even mean sexually, so get your minds out of the gutter. She's been in a long-term relationship (I haven't), so I'll always feel like everything she does with me she's already been through. That sucks.

So am I wrong for these misgivings? Like, basically it's like I'm going out with someone's divorced mom. That's how I look at her. It doesn't have anything to do with age, per se, but just in terms of the baggage she comes with, I guess.

EDIT: In the spirit of being completely open, I'll also add that a big part of my misgiving is that, while she's still cute, it's like 30-year-old cute versus 20-year-old cute. (Guys know what I mean.) In my mind she'll always fall short of what she was; she used to be a perfect 10 -- she had it all. Now she's like an 8. Which is great, but it's not a 10. I don't think I can get over that.

 

[jessica84]

Doc02, you're a mess lately. No, I'm kidding, but here's my advice to you.
(I'm not protecting the sisterhood either.)

First off, if you end up asking this girl out and she likes you (and has experienced a long-term relationship) she won't care whether or not you have. (Who knows? She may even prefer it.) Secondly, she may have not gotten to know you before, and now knows what she is looking for. Maybe it will click this time. Maybe it won't. Maybe she knows what a bad relationship is like (from her previous one) and would appreciate you now? Who knows?
I wouldn't worry about that part.

Now to address the second part: The whole "older looking" thing. No, I'm not ripping on your honesty. It's good that you address that this is an issue for you. And no, you're not wrong for admitting your true feelings, but you do need to think about your thought process on the whole "ten" thing. Here's my two cents: When you fall in love with someone, you love their personality, soul, demeanor, everything about that person. (Of course they'll have flaws, but you generally look past them.) They become more beautiful as they grow older. It sounds like you held a sort of fantasy in your head for all those years. For her not to be a "ten", and now just an "eight", which sounds like a turn-off to you, that's kind of a sign that you're more-or-less lusting after her. (and I don't mean sexually, just kind of wanting this ideal image of her) You have to ask yourself if you are truly interested in her as a person (the entire package) and do you need to let that former image of her go?

Have you interacted with her lately? Maybe you'll find that her beautiful personality brings back that charm to her and she has grown in wisdom. Maybe you'll see more of a classic beauty to her rather than a cuteness? This is something you're going to have to really think about. Are you interested in her beauty? Her soul? Everything about her? or just how she used to look?

 

[doc02]

No, I'm not just lusting after her. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll freely admit that I am physically attracted to her, but it's not like I just saw her and was attracted to her. That happened after I got to know her. If all I cared about was looks, I'd be fine. There are LOTS of women around and a lot of them look good. I really like her.

But at the same time, I can't just ignore the passage of time. I mean, like I said, I knew her almost a decade ago and that's a lot of time. Even though physical looks aren't everything, it's still frustrating because she used to be athletic and now she's not. Even for married people, that's frustrating, so I don't think that's unfair. But in my position, I sort of resent it, like, "gee, thanks for going out with Mr. #1 when you were young and working out like crazy, now you two broke up and Mr. Consolation Runner-up gets the middle-aged you." I feel badly for thinking that way, but I also don't think that's totally unfair, either.

I sort of feel like Forrest Gump. He was always waiting around for Jenny and she was running around with that other guy. Then, she comes back to him way later. That's not cool, in my opinion.

 

[jessica84]

Hmm... I don't know what to tell you. Okay, I believe you care about her, but if this is going to be something that really gets in the way of caring for her completely, I just don't know. You need to search down deep and think about what is important to you about her (and also find out if she's interested back). You need to let the former image of her go. (She may even be insecure about no longer being the athlete she was. You never know.)

Get rid of those insecurities that you have about being second-runner up and her letting herself go (or whatever) because you're only runner up and it doesn't matter now...not quoting you but whatever is going through your mind. Once you'll get to know her again, you'll find out her true feelings. Her relationships failed because she wasn't meant to be with those guys (or that one guy) or whatever her case.

Become her friend. Start there. Go slow. Trust your heart. Erase the former image of her. Start with an open-mind when becoming reaquainted with her. If you find you can't connect with her as she is now, sorry but you've got to move on.

 

[doc02]

Hm, maybe I'm not saying this right. I'm a guy, after all, and we stink at this, lol. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can definitely still see us having a good relationship ...but I also definitely can see myself having these thoughts in the back of my head. That's what scares me. Yes, this is getting ahead of myself, but I wouldn't want to poison the relationship with this resentment. At the same time, I can't just "forget about it." That's much easier said than done. Gah, relationships suck!

 

[jessica84]

Well, I guess you need to ask yourself this. What are the most important things you are looking for in a long-term relationship? Of course, you need to be attracted to the person. I'm not dismissing that by anymeans. It's a reality for us women too. BUT perfection isn't reality. The qualities you see in her, you may not find in another girl. Are these qualities strong enough to overlook the fact that she may have put on a few pounds or lost the atleticism she once had? Only you will know. You won't poison the relationship with those back thoughts if you know that you end up liking her or even loving her despite some imperfections. You said it yourself. There are beautiful girls everywhere, but do they have the inner personality that attracts you? Is it something that you can overlook? Only you will know.

Sounds like you have the insecurity issue too.
If you do get into a relationship, you'll eventually know if she truly loves you. There are even people who have gotten divorced and found their "true love" in their second wife or husband even more (and resented the first. ) Strange as it seems. She never got married, so you don't have to deal with that. You can't let those feelings burn inside of you (feelings of resentment as you said) because they may explode at any time otherwise.

 

[doc02]

Again, the way I phrased it was maybe off. When I say she was "perfect," I don't mean that literally, of course. I just mean that she had all the qualities that I personally want in a woman. There are lots of other guys who don't feel that way about her; my best friend actually doesn't think she looks that great, for example. So I'm not making her out to be literally perfect by any stretch.

Am I insecure? Sure. Like I said, my other big issue was that I feel like I'm the guy she chose only because she couldn't get her first choice. After all, she knew me for a while and made her choice, so this is pretty clear-cut. But this is why I said "no standing up for the sisterhood." See, what you say is in the best of intentions and I appreciate it, but isn't it true that no woman would like it if they were in this role, either? Would you like it if your current boyfriend or spouse had the chance to pick you and went with someone else instead?

And while she never got married, how different is that from being in a long-term (years) relationship with someone and living with them? That's irritating to me, too. Like I said, it's sort of like dating someone's divorced mom. It's fine if I was a divorced dad, but I'm not. See what I'm saying?

 

[jessica84]

Am I insecure? Sure. Like I said, my other big issue was that I feel like I'm the guy she chose only because she couldn't get her first choice. After all, she knew me for a while and made her choice, so this is pretty clear-cut. But this is why I said "no standing up for the sisterhood." See, what you say is in the best of intentions and I appreciate it, but isn't it true that no woman would like it if they were in this role, either? Would you like it if your current boyfriend or spouse had the chance to pick you and went with someone else instead?

And while she never got married, how different is that from being in a long-term (years) relationship with someone and living with them? That's irritating to me, too. Like I said, it's sort of like dating someone's divorced mom. It's fine if I was a divorced dad, but I'm not. See what I'm saying?

Yes, I see absolutely what you are saying. Seeing more to your story now, to be quite honest, that wouldn't make me too comfortable either and the fact that she was with the guy for years and lived with him... and then decides to choose you when she had the opportunity before because she was good friends with you all along...I, for one, wouldn't want that. You have to decide if her qualities are so strong that you're able to overlook that. If you cannot do that, you're going to have to move on because you're not being fair to yourself either. Being runner-up, due to convenience. I have to be careful here because I don't know her, nor you, so I can only give my advice from what I hear. So from what it sounds from what you're telling me, do you want to be someone's second choice (when you were there all along and haven't changed and were her friend all along?) I don't think so. You could be miserable in that situation having those feelings there all along. There will be another girl out there who will choose your first, but in order to do that, you'll have to move on first (unless her relationship is truly in the past and she and you both are able to move forward.)

 

[doc02]

Right, so now you understand. But on the flip side everyone is saying the usual stuff. "Who cares if she was with that guy? Every girl has been with some other guy." And girls are the worst, they're like, "oh, so you wouldn't date someone just because she was in a long-term relationship before?" They get all insulted because they are thinking, "uh oh, I'm in a long-term relationship, if I break up I don't want other guys not wanting to date me!" So they give out their "advice" in a biased manner, which I don't really appreciate, lol.

Edit: Also, people say stuff like, "OK, so she chose the other guy, but that was when she was immature. Now she's matured!" I hate that. It's like I have to accept everything in her past and just chalk it up to "immaturity," which I feel is a cop-out. *sigh*

 

[smq123]

1) She chose some other guy over me. I'm always gonna be Mr. Consolation Prize if this goes anywhere. I'm always going to think, "yeah, she's with me ...but only because it didn't work out with Mr. #1." That sucks.

EDIT: In the spirit of being completely open, I'll also add that a big part of my misgiving is that, while she's still cute, it's like 30-year-old cute versus 20-year-old cute. (Guys know what I mean.) In my mind she'll always fall short of what she was; she used to be a perfect 10 -- she had it all. Now she's like an 8. Which is great, but it's not a 10. I don't think I can get over that.

I'm a girl, and I probably should "protect the sisterhood," but I can't, in this case. If it were reversed, I would probably feel the same way. I would feel like a consolation prize, particularly if the guy had clearly "let himself go" over the past few years. It would always make me feel like "Oh - so back then you tried to get something better, but now that you've let yourself go a little, now you think that you should just 'settle' for me?"

If you really, really like her, then you'll get over it naturally. If you can't get over it, though - that should probably tell you something.

Basically - if you're a "bad person" for thinking this way, I guess I am too.

 

[doc02]

smq123, thanks for the understanding, that's exactly how I feel. The thing is that all the women around me are saying the opposite. They're all telling me that "time doesn't matter, it's the same person" and blah blah blah. That's why I think it's just them standing up for another woman, like I'm supposed to sit around waiting for her and then be grateful I get a chance to date her.

But, see, that's my resentment showing through. Like I said, I don't want to make it sound one-sided. She wasn't malicious and she was up-front and honest with me and she's a really nice person. That's why it's so difficult. If she was a b!tch, it would be an easy decision, I'd just give her the ol' heave-ho (no pun intended, lol).

Anyone been in this situation?

 

[smq123]

The thing is that all the women around me are saying the opposite. They're all telling me that "time doesn't matter, it's the same person" and blah blah blah. That's why I think it's just them standing up for another woman, like I'm supposed to sit around waiting for her and then be grateful I get a chance to date her.

But, see, that's my resentment showing through. Like I said, I don't want to make it sound one-sided. She wasn't malicious and she was up-front and honest with me and she's a really nice person. That's why it's so difficult. If she was a b!tch, it would be an easy decision, I'd just give her the ol' heave-ho (no pun intended, lol).

I don't agree with what other women have said. Time DOES matter, and she may not be exactly the same person. (You're probably not the same person either.) Have you kept in frequent contact with her over the past 10 years? Have you had a chance to really get re-acquainted? If not, she might have changed. Sure, she might be a nice person. But maybe she's less patient than she was 10 years ago. Maybe she's less ambitious. Maybe you're less patient than you were 10 years ago. Maybe you guys won't click as well as you would have a decade ago.

10 years IS a lot of time. If you're a resident now (and I gather from other posts that you are), you wouldn't even have started med school 10 years ago. I imagine that both of you are different people now.

Get to know her again. If you get along with her, and you really, really like her, the other issues won't be important, and you'll forget about them.

 

[doc02]

Again, maybe I wasn't so clear. When I'm talking about other women's advice, it's along the lines of outrage that I care about how old she is. They immediately act like, "oh, so you just want some 20-year-old!" Well, yeah, sort of. I mean, I don't have an extensive dating history because going in the route of medicine doesn't usually give you that much time to party and I'm not a party animal anyways. So to me, it actually IS a big deal that she's almost in her mid-30s and was in a long-term relationship. That's like (nerd alert) advanced maternal age and I'm not interested in dealing with someone who is worried about her biological clock or anyone for whom it matters right now, frankly. (I'm making the assumption that she's going to be like that, but from what I know of women, that's the way it is once they hit their mid-30s.) To me, it feels unfair because it's like she had her fun with the other guy and now I'm going to be the guy who she gets all crazy with (in terms of "running out of time omg!!").

But then part of me feels really bad about that, really superficial. Should it matter how old she is? Technically, no. But it does. Very confusing and frustrating.

 

[jessica84]

See, Doc02, you have me a little confused now. Are you in a relationship with her or not? Does she suddenly like you or are you hoping she does?

First of all, the answer is not as simple as black and white. No, I never just stand up for someone who is woman just "because". Did I stand up for the nurse who is rude to you? No. Read all of my post and see the difficulty in completely seeing all of your situation.


As the above poster mentioned, I didn't mean that people don't change with time-of course they do (especially in the early 20s to the 30s!) However, because you are still interested in her and (it seems you are still attracted to her personality, I'm assuming she's essentially the same person as before?) She's still nice, talked to you about her situation, so communication is good, yes? (I don't know if you're dating her or not right now or how often you see her. ) The whole outside aging thing is what I am saying isn't the most important thing, because if you care about someone, that's not an issue (and if it is...move on, really.) I've went on dates with guys that were super nice, smart, and funny, but I just wasn't the least bit attracted to them, and couldn't go on a second one...obviously I didn't care about them enough or I would have made it work, right? Yeah, then I'm in for being a bad person for that too.) Frankly, I don't think that's the issue with you, Doc02.) It seems to be the whole 2nd choice thing is the big thing that's bothering you.

So, it comes down to this woman's heart and your heart.
No, I do not support this woman because I'm a female. The entire thing is the fact that I don't know her. I don't know how her relationship ended, and I don't know her true feelings. Do you? Was she the one who broke up with him? Did he break up with her? Is she fresh out of her relationship and you're her rebound guy? Is she completely over him and has been single for at least a year? (If not.....RED FLAG!!!!!!!!) Is she interested in you now? If so, why? Seriously. Valid question here. Why not before? That's a big thing to know.
----------------
HOWEVER, as an outsider looking in on the situation, I nor the above poster can judge the situation. However, I can only imagine how I would feel if I had a guy friend for several years whom I adored and I gave him every chance to ask me out. He never took the opportunity and pased over me more as I cried inwardly and watched him live with another girl for years. It'd break my heart. And then for him to come back unattached and now interested because he's single and has no one? Um...no chance. (sorry) IS this exactly the situation?

Everyone around you is telling you this and that, you say, but Doc02, you sound miserable. Is this true? You need to listen to what your own heart is telling you and not listen to those who say, but...but...because you seem to have a defense for anytime they say this. I think it's possible you may need a fresh start.


I think you know the answer to your own dilemma. For anytime one of your friends defends her situation, you have a rebuttle. (I'm not saying that to be mean, but I think there is a reason why.) I don't think you're happy. Is that correct? Sometimes we feel as though we've found that one and no one will be better that comes along, but it does happen.

 

[jessica84]

Not all women in their mid-30s are all shouting "biological clock!", though it reality many of them are. If age matters, to you, age matters. Simple as that. Am I going to date a super nice 40 year-old guy because his personality matches mine? No. If people think I'm shallow? Tough! I'm the one who has to spend my life with the guy I choose, not them. You should look at it that way. I guess what I was saying on the entire looks thing before goes with the age thing. If you loved the person, it wouldn't be an issue. Obviously something more is going on here.

I don't think you sound superficial here. You're being wise. You and her sound like you are in two different stages of your lives. You have been in a "bubble" due to studying and working hard on your career. NOTHING wrong with that. She has dated here and there, lived with a guy for years, and may now be ready for kids, while you have yet to test the waters of dating and finding that special someone. Am I hearing you right? Don't let others dictate what you want in a relationship.

Okay, I need to go do some homework now or I'll never finish...

 

[doc02]

I'm not in a relationship yet, but she's interested in one. That's my dilemma; I don't want to start a relationship that I'm going to poison with my thoughts, like I said.

When I was talking about "women around me," I certainly wasn't referring to you! You've been very fair and helpful. I was referring to people I know in my personal life. They all seem to just take her side because she's a woman, so if age bothers me it's because I'm "a typical guy who just wants a young girl."

It's a little complex because I wouldn't mind about her age if I just met her right now. That's fine. But since I knew her before, then it matters to me. Sounds stupid when I say that, but it's true. I think it's because I know how she used to be and I also know that I missed out on the years when she was still maturing. That's what I meant when I said "I don't mind growing old with someone, but I don't want someone who is already old."

But, yeah, age does matter. But because I know that, I feel like a louse. I mean, I sort of do agree that I shouldn't care about her age ...and it's not like she's 50. And she's still really nice and a sweet person. But like I said, she's physically different (of course) than before. Should that matter to me? Again, technically not. But I also don't think it's totally unfair for me to take that into account.

And I was being honest when I said that the thing that bugged me most was not being her #1 choice. That's much more important to me than her looks. You can only take my word for it, but if she had chosen me, I wouldn't care what she looked like today.

 

[doc02]

However, I can only imagine how I would feel if I had a guy friend for several years whom I adored and I gave him every chance to ask me out. He never took the opportunity and pased over me more as I cried inwardly and watched him live with another girl for years. It'd break my heart. And then for him to come back unattached and now interested because he's single and has no one? Um...no chance. (sorry) IS this exactly the situation?

Yeah, that's exactly the situation. But again, to be fair, it's not like she's interested in me because she has no shot at anyone else. She always said she liked me, just not as much as the other guy. Also, she's really nice, not some b!tch, like I said. So I don't think there's an ulterior motive. It just sucks to be #2, like I keep saying. Am I miserable because of that? Yeah. My dilemma, quite simply, is that if I go out with her, I may be unable to control my resentment of the situation and I don't want to treat her badly because of that (but I can totally see myself doing something like that, like making some cheap-shot remark if we get into an argument). But on the other hand, if I don't go out with her, I'll always feel like I missed out on something good.

 

[jessica84]

And I was being honest when I said that the thing that bugged me most was not being her #1 choice. That's much more important to me than her looks. You can only take my word for it, but if she had chosen me, I wouldn't care what she looked like today.

Okay, quick response here...then I've got to put my nose in a book for the next few hours. 😳 Yes, I believe you on your above response. And after hearing everything that you have said, I truly do not think you are shallow. I think this issue (2nd choice) is going to be something that will always bugs you (rightfully so). You know what you are looking for, and you should not feel guilty for it. She hurt you. She didn't mean too, but she did. You, on the other hand, know what you are looking for and seem to be so afraid of being shallow that you may end up in a relationship denying what you want truly want. It sounds like you are afraid of hurting her? Afraid you won't find anyone better?

 

[doc02]

It sounds like you are afraid of hurting her? Afraid you won't find anyone better?

I'm definitely afraid of hurting her. I'm also afraid of hurting myself because I think I'll always compare her to her younger self (which is wrong, but it'll happen). But I'm afraid that if I don't get into a relationship with her I'll also always wonder if I passed up on something good. It's a no-win situation, the way I see it. But thanks for your comments.

 

[jessica84]

Yeah, that's exactly the situation. But again, to be fair, it's not like she's interested in me because she has no shot at anyone else. She always said she liked me, just not as much as the other guy. Also, she's really nice, not some b!tch, like I said. So I don't think there's an ulterior motive. It just sucks to be #2, like I keep saying. Am I miserable because of that? Yeah. My dilemma, quite simply, is that if I go out with her, I may be unable to control my resentment of the situation and I don't want to treat her badly because of that (but I can totally see myself doing something like that, like making some cheap-shot remark if we get into an argument). But on the other hand, if I don't go out with her, I'll always feel like I missed out on something good.

Okay, before I hide in a book, I've got to respond to this post because it has made up my mind entirely (no more grey area here). She said she always liked the other guy more? umm...no. Forget it. I wouldn't get into a situation like that if you paid me. If a guy said that to me about another girl? I wouldn't even give him a chance. (sorry) (even if he was nice, sweet, polite, cute etc.) I have too much respect for myself, and it sounds like you do too (that's why you're torn inside).

What are you going to do ten years down the road when she finds another guy that she likes better than you? or if that particular guy comes crawling to your doorstep once you have three kids, a mortgage, and a fourth one on the way? Is she going to drop you and go back to her "first love"???

You are angry and confused inside for good reason. It's your heart telling you there is something wrong with this situation. You're not shallow for not wanting to be second best.

 

[doc02]

No, my poor writing has doomed me again! LOL.

She didn't SAY she liked the other guy more. She admitted that she liked me. But since she chose to stay with the other guy, I'm pretty sure (lol) that she liked him more. But it's not like she came out and said that to my face.

 

[Buspar]

Its sounds like you have a lot of resentment towards her so I don't think it would be a wise choice to get involved with her until you can get over that.

 

[doc02]

Yeah, I figured. But then I'll always wonder "what if." Also, do you think my resentment is unfair?

 

[jessica84]

Yeah, I figured. But then I'll always wonder "what if." Also, do you think my resentment is unfair?

I think anyone in your situation would feel that way. Who wouldn't? Whether or not it's 100% justified, you have an internal anger that is clearly burning in you that you think could potentially erupt during your argument. (I actually wrote that in a comment earlier and deleted it becuase I didn't want to say that, but that's exactly what I predict could happen). That doesn't sound like a healthy start to a relationship.

If you truly want to start anything with her, I highly recommend you start as a friend again (since you have a lot of catching up to do) AND I recommend that you communicate a lot. You may need to get all of these feelings out in the open and let them all out (and then if you do choose enter a relationship with her, you really cannot hold them against her or that would be unfair).
Maybe once you're her friend, you'll get use to how she has changed (or maybe you won't). That's why I suggest just being friends first.
And, if after that, you cannot stop comparing her to what she was, and still feel resentment, it simply will not work. Simple as that.

 

[doc02]

Someone PMed me about this, I'm going to reply publicly without identifying them. I didn't think anything they said was confidential, but if the person has a problem with it just let me know and I'll take it down.

First of all, it's probably my fault but everyone keeps having erroneous assumptions about the girl. She was ALREADY in a relationship with someone else; I showed up on the scene and became attracted to her (not knowing she was dating someone else). She told me that she had a boyfriend. Therefore, she most certainly did NOT just say she liked me and then turn around and start having a relationship with someone else. Of course I'd recognize that as low. I understood her position because #1 she was being honest with me and upfront and #2 I was basically asking her to BREAK a relationship to start one with me (again, unknowingly).

This person said I was probably projecting an ideal image of her onto her and that she may have had flaws that would show up once I started getting to really know her. Absolutely. But that's part of what dating is about, right? If you know someone completely before dating them, that's called stalking, lol. But I know exactly what you mean. Maybe I find that she chews with her mouth open and that gets under my skin or something. Fine, but I'd deal with whether that was a deal-breaker or not down the road.

You're right, however, when you say that maybe my idealized view of her when she was in her 20s may have messed me up because nobody can match up to it. That's part of my problem, as I said. I think that even if I go out with her now, I may think, "gee, she's heavier than she was seven years ago" or "huh, she's just not as cute" or whatever. I'm worried that I may become bitter about that, like I said, and make hurtful comments towards her at some point. I wouldn't want to do that to her, which is why I'm so hesitant to get into the relationship. Also, I may just be extremely disappointed, like you say, when she can't match up to my view of "her old self." That's why I'm asking everyone these questions, to see if they think I'm nuts for thinking this way or whatever.

 

[doc02]

Uh oh, it has been pointed out to me that I am a victim of Ladder Theory. I am owned. 🙁

ARGH!!!!!!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'll keep it simple....MOVE.ON.

When people travel, they have luggage. Sometimes when they travel with certain people they will have more luggage. You and her currently have luggage, an entourage, and a small moving van.

-t

 

[jessica84]

I think that even if I go out with her now, I may think, "gee, she's heavier than she was seven years ago" or "huh, she's just not as cute" or whatever. I'm worried that I may become bitter about that, like I said, and make hurtful comments towards her at some point.

If you are concerned about that, I would go my separate way. You are walking straight into the fire otherwise. No one should talk to their partner in a derogatory or hurtful way, and since you can already forsee the potential problem due to her weight gain and so forth, then go the other direction or you both will be miserable.

I've know many people who've said that there were certain flaws in the other person that only became apparent once the "newness" of the relationship wore off. Some of the flaws drove them crazy, so they broke it off. It wasn't the person for them, I guess. They never insulted the other person over it though. Others said that they were able to overlook the flaws; some even grew to actually like these flaws. (That time was the make-it or break-it stage. Do you like the person enough to overlook them or do you break it off?) Usually in the newness stage, you see so many good qualities that you see past all the flaws.

You aren't even in a relationship with her yet and you have things bothering you so much you could verbally hurt her. That's a bad sign. What will happen when you two are in that stage (that all couples go through) where the spark has gone and you need to rework on your relationship again? You'll feel even more resentful towards her. I'm sorry, but I don't think it sounds good at all. It sounds like it'd be an unhappy ending.

 

[doc02]

Woah, woah! I don't want you to get the wrong idea about me, either! I don't mean that I'm like looking forward to insulting her or anything. I'm just being honest and realistic. She's not physically the same as she was in her 20s, that's reality. And guys care about looks, but I'm not trying to be a jerk. Still, that's also a reality. Even girls know that. The ones I know worry about gaining weight or what their boyfriends will think about how they look.

I'm just saying that with me, it's accentuated because I think I'll always compare her 20-something self to her 30-something self since I never got the chance to be with her (again, not even sexually, I'm not being crass) in that time. But I would never be like, "yo, you're a fat pig!" or something.

 

[jessica84]

No, I know you said you don't want to insult her, but you said you are afraid you would. You said you won't call her "fat pig", but on the other hand, being resentful, bitter, extra-reserved, or angry all will speak loud and clear to her.

I know that some spouses don't care if their significant other gains weight, and others may get angry and resentful. Those that get angry have probems, really. However, others take the middle road and ever so gently nudge their spouse or significant other to come along for a jog with them and cheer them on to becoming healthier or whatever. This can be great in a relationship IF both partners are on the same page (and know the other is not bitter, critical, and loves them despite a weight gain). You're not even in the role yet and you're quite bitter about it. You've got to figure out if her other qualities will outweigh her weight gain. No, I'm sorry, but you really can't compare her. I don't know how you can get over that and you must not let that out if you do choose to date her long-term.

 

[UMED122]

I was basically asking her to BREAK a relationship to start one with me (again, unknowingly).

Personally, I don't think you should resent her at all for that. If that was the situation, it's possible that she did like you more than the other guy but just felt safe in her established relationship--people are like that sometimes. I'm not sure why you would feel the need to erupt about that. It would be different (like you said) if she was single and chose the other guy.

I'd say don't pursue this unless/until you get over what you're feeling.

 

[doc02]

Personally, I don't think you should resent her at all for that.

Yeah, but it's not just that (although that's still big). She's a lot older now (let's use round numbers and say a decade). I definitely feel like the other guy got the young her and now I will get the old(er) her. Now, I know that everyone will say "wow, what a superficial comment" but I would argue that anyone who doesn't acknowledge that this is a factor is just being unfair.

 

[UMED122]

Yeah, but it's not just that (although that's still big). She's a lot older now (let's use round numbers and say a decade). I definitely feel like the other guy got the young her and now I will get the old(er) her. Now, I know that everyone will say "wow, what a superficial comment" but I would argue that anyone who doesn't acknowledge that this is a factor is just being unfair.

Partly agree, I'm just saying if you feel that way, you probably shouldn't pursue it. It wouldn't be right to take it out on her when that's just the way it worked out. Like I said, it would be different if she chose the other guy over you plain and simple, but it doesn't sound like she did.

I'm going to read a little into what you're saying, so I could be wrong, but it looks to me like you two are at different stages in your lives anyway; you still want to experience more of the dating scene, while she wants to settle down--that might be simplifying it somewhat, but that's the vibe I'm getting. I think you should look around more at other women for now and maybe just get to know her as a friend again, or perhaps just back away altogether and go your separate ways.

 

[PinkLittmann]

Tough one, but I think I understand your plight and hers sort of. However, you should not look at it as you still being the consolation prize. You are being a little ridiculous for thinking that because people need time to grow. We all like to believe we grow as we age and you may have grown into a top notch guy (not saying you were bad before). Just that even if you were the consolation in the past or whatever, you aren't that exact same person. Moreover she probably didn't think of it that way at the time, as in you not being good enough. If she likes you because there is still that chemistry then she is not thinking you are second rate and neither should you. Also timing. Ugh, women are notorious for staying with what we've got. Think sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive. I'm not saying reproduction came into the picture, more so you have to understand how some females think about this stuff. We know if what we have is good and we could see some kind of future its a big risk to go for something that isn't as sure of a deal as what we have right now. So what do we do ... we sigh and say hey maybe the timing will be better in the future. Now to her the timing is better. That's so exciting because I find myself having said things like that... oh I hope the timing is better and we meet again, and he's grown and I've grown. That's probably stupid and she might not have even thought that way, but take it as you will. However, I'm kind of bummed to hear that you are now so worried about being second best, being slightly resentful, and the fact that what you are getting is a little overripe as far as age goes. However I just want to remind you that adult chemistry should be about more than looks. Lets face it, you probably don't look the same as you did either, and if you do you give me hope. Unless she really let herself go its kind of a fair trade. Also, yeah you could find some 20 something, but I can only imagine how odd it would be to compare dating someone who is your equal and dating someone who is at a different place in their life. Oh, and I think that the fact that she's been in a real relationship(s) is great. It helps you out in future relationships. Two people who have never done a relationship before often don't realize the kind of work it can take once the stars wear off. As far as you getting the older her, the best of what someone has in them doesn't age. When you find yourself in love, you are captivated by someone's spirit, the way they laugh at a joke or make a joke, a half-smile. Those things don't change about people. That's what makes someone really come to life in anothers eyes. The fact that what you are getting has aged really depends on how important age and looks are to you. Sure you missed out on a big part of her youth, but there is much more time to spend learning and growing together if you so choose. Now having said all this it really comes down to you. Do you have the mental strength to keep your doubts and misgivings from turning into resentment? Only you really know that about yourself. I say go for it if you can reason yourself past these hang ups. When something good knocks on your door, do you appreciate what has come to your doorstep, or do you tear away at each one of its flaws till nothing good remains? Unless you have someone better in mind, I think you should get it together. She will not forget that she overlooked you the first time and you are man enough to be a grown up about that now. Hopefully you have found this post helpful and have not taken offense to anything I said. Also, Im not all sisterhood of the traveling pants, pretty much all my good friends are guys and this is just what I would tell one of them.

 

[doc02]

If she likes you because there is still that chemistry then she is not thinking you are second rate and neither should you.

OK, but what I'm getting at with the "sisterhood" is that is there any woman who would say the exact same thing to their female friend in this circumstance? A guy knows they like him, doesn't choose them, then comes back years later and basically says, "OK, wanna go out now?" And their girlfriends would seriously say the stuff you girls are telling me? "I'm sure he's grown and matured, that should make you happy!" or "You should be happy he was in a long term relationship with that other girl while you haven't had one because now he brings that experience to the table!" I'm not saying you guys are doing this deliberately, but I'm pretty sure the advice would be different if the players were reversed.

Lets face it, you probably don't look the same as you did either

I actually do, which is why that bugs me, too.

 

[Cuteasaurus]

1) If you can't get over it, then you can't get over it. Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter in the least.

2) I think it reads a bit too much into her motivations to keep saying that you "know" you were the second best and the consolation prize. As others have mentioned, it isn't like she met you both at the same time and she picked this guy over you. She was already in a relationship. She may have liked you better, but liked him enough to be unable to abandon the time she had invested with him. Without her actually telling you what she was thinking, I'd be loathe to guess her motivations.

 

[doc02]

1) If you can't get over it, then you can't get over it. Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter in the least.

I think if people told me that I was being extremely unreasonable, it would be easier to get over it. On the other hand, if people tell me that it's reasonable, then maybe it's justified and I shouldn't feel badly for feeling that way.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Considering some of the stated issues you've brought up, it'd be an unrealistic expectation for you to do anything but screw this up......no offense. My vote is still "Move On".

-t

 

[PinkLittmann]

Would I give the same advice to a female friend, honestly it depends on the girl and the guy. Gender is totally aside at this point. If I had a female friend in your position who would never be able to get over it than I would tell her to just move on. However, if I remembered at the time that they seemed to have a real spark (and she could get over it) I'd tell her to go for it same as you. You only live once, if there is something you want to go for now is the time to do it. I believe in informed decisions, but living in the land of limbo for too long is a waste. Also if you are really that into looks and bummed that sundamage, inactivity, or the general effects of the passage of time have taken their toll on her, then let her go. No woman wants to feel like its being held against her that she's aged. If you can't get past these hang ups I would consider moving on and telling her respectfully that you are not interested.

 

[doc02]

Also if you are really that into looks and bummed that sundamage, inactivity, or the general effects of the passage of time have taken their toll on her, then let her go. No woman wants to feel like its being held against her that she's aged.

Just to be clear, I don't mind it when women age. The thing I mind is missing out on her youth and THEN getting her when she's aged. I don't think that's an outrageous thing to say.

 

[rose82]

well...ur not wrong in thinking...everyone has a mind and heart!!but as u know..its not the girl's fault either....she cant do anything abt it...and so cant u.but if u have doubts like this...its better for u to move on.its not like ''shes an 8..and not a 10'' or something...even if she was a 3...and still u have that respect for her...ur relationship would work.but everytime u think of her...u would have such thoughts...and its insulting for u and for her.either u accept her unbiased..whch is difficult,but then love was never easy.or u just move on.

 

[charmedgrad]

I dont think you should get carried away with being mr consolation prize. think of things working out between the both of you as destiny or fate because what were the chances of the both of you being available at the same time. go for it and see what happens.
not every girl wants to settle for less than they deserve if not she would probably be in a relationship that she's not happy with but she's in it just because she's desperate.

If you dont take a stab at the relationship, you'll never know....

 

[DPMDoOrDie]

doc02 I think you are very smart for realizing the whole "consolation prize" thing before you enter relationship. It is something that would probably always bother you. I personally do not think you should go for it with this girl because of the extensive history you've had with her. In a relationship, this can hurt more than it helps. I do not know your age, but you still have lots of time to find a more special girl who will make you her #1 and not her #2.

Especially if you make med school you can easily meet better girls.

Steps:

1) go to restaurant/bar near med school
2) go up to attractive girls
3) hey my name is X, i'm a new student at med school Y, how you doing

In conclusion, there are too many girls out there, many probably better looking, better personality, etc. for you to stress over this one so much. 👍

 

[Yourmother]

OK, first off I'm a guy. This is a relationship question. I will accept any answer as long as it meets one criterion: don't be biased and answer based on "sticking up for your sisterhood" or whatever. Same thing with guys, don't say I'm right just because I'm a guy.

So I used to know this girl about seven years ago and she was really cute and smart. So of course, she's dating some guy (story of my life). She likes me, but not more than the other guy and she let me know everything up front. That's cool and I respect that and I admired her for being honest. I'm a one-woman guy, I'd never cheat on a woman and I'd never respect a woman who would cheat on a guy.

So we go our separate ways and yet I can't stop thinking about her because she was so perfect. Fast forward to now. Now she's not in a relationship. Do I go out with her or not? See, the thing is I can't get it out of my head two things:

1) She chose some other guy over me. I'm always gonna be Mr. Consolation Prize if this goes anywhere. I'm always going to think, "yeah, she's with me ...but only because it didn't work out with Mr. #1." That sucks.

2) Bear with me because this sounds really rude. I want to grow old with someone, not get someone who is old. I have no problem with growing old with someone. I'm not a jerk who wants to dump a wife to get a hot young girlfriend. But when I knew her she was in her mid-20s and now she's getting into her mid-30s. That's not old, of course, in terms of life. But it's old in terms of living. She's already experienced everything. You know? And I don't even mean sexually, so get your minds out of the gutter. She's been in a long-term relationship (I haven't), so I'll always feel like everything she does with me she's already been through. That sucks.

So am I wrong for these misgivings? Like, basically it's like I'm going out with someone's divorced mom. That's how I look at her. It doesn't have anything to do with age, per se, but just in terms of the baggage she comes with, I guess.

EDIT: In the spirit of being completely open, I'll also add that a big part of my misgiving is that, while she's still cute, it's like 30-year-old cute versus 20-year-old cute. (Guys know what I mean.) In my mind she'll always fall short of what she was; she used to be a perfect 10 -- she had it all. Now she's like an 8. Which is great, but it's not a 10. I don't think I can get over that.

How is her personality? You rated her looks...

anyhow it sounds complicated, I'm all about relationships should be easy and natural. I've been married for almost 4 years and my wife and I have had a few spats but for the most part its easy.

If you get in a relationship with her, that "2nd place" feel is never going to go away. It will be a source of much pain for years to come. There was a reason it happened in the first place.

Dude, get out while you can.

 

[Yourmother]

oops...sorry double post

 

[bananaface]

It's not her fault that you showed up when she was already in a relationship. That she isn't a dump and run girl is a plus, not a minus - which you already admitted. Ask her out and see if you still like her.

 

[Sweenracer]

Honest opinion from a guy:

DUDE, you are thinking about this way too much...

1. You are thinking about dating her... there should be no discussion of getting old with her. That's weird. Just being honest... I used to do the same crap... but I was insecure and needy. Just date her. If it works out, great... if it doesn't, then move on.

2. You seem really obsessed with her looks... people get older, that's just what happens. My wife is mid 30's and she's still a 10 (to me)... You probably won't find someone in their 20's who is hot and wants to settle down and grow old with you.

3. She didn't pick you first. So what. Maybe you weren't approachable. Maybe she changed her mind. Maybe you finally cut off your mullet and stopped playing Dungeons and Dragons. If she wants to date you now, than date her. We all want to date a virgin and be her first... but honestly, that hardly ever happens. You have to get over the fact that she did some other dudes before you.

4. Just be honest to yourself. Asking us what our honest opinions are shouldn't matter. If you like her so much, why are you hesitating?

Good Luck.