Looking for ideas here folks, my wife is not having it

Do you guys have kids? Because that is the only reason I can see here for such a drastic demand.

Did you guys know what the hours would be like before starting medical school?

Does she want to start a family, and you want to delay until after training? How old is she? Because I can family planning issues coming up.

Did you guys have to move, and she hasn't acclimated? Because if the first two years have been rough, and she doesn't have a very good support network outside of you, same with career, then the prospect of things getting *harder* for two years, then another move, and things get *harder* *again,* could seem like an unbearable gauntlet for her for the next 5-7 years or more of her life.

It's a huge commitment. You should never have kids because you're stuck at home lonely and bored, but if you're adding on top of this a feeling of twiddling your thumbs waiting to start a family home alone....

And the idea of building a whole life and then having to uproot and build again, possibly more than once....

I can imagine a scenario where this is actually pretty unbearable for her.

But, both of you are in a situation, where you BOTH have made 2 commitments. Well, 3. One is marriage. Two is medical school. Three is debt.

While it is true that it is better to walk now loan amount-wise than before graduation, we are still not talking an inconsequential amount of debt.

And, I don't know what your financial situation is, or your fall back career.

It may not be news to her, but a LOT of people with a lot of student loan debt and well educated and good careers, are not able to work 9-5. Things are getting harder. So quitting school may not be the fastest route to the lifestyle she wants.

Medicine is an excellent career to make middle class money even working 50 hours or less a week. So that is the trade off, work now, work less later potentially. It's a pretty sure bet you can have the career and lifestyle you want from what I have heard so far.

There's a chance you walk, and maybe the 2 of you still have to work more than 9-5.

At least finish medical school. You're about halfway, and with the degree at least you have some other opportunities to earn. Mmm, actually, scratch that, because at that point you really need that intern year. Stopping before then is just, ass. And at that point, you're better off just finishing residency.

But, you know all this. The real issue, is why is she this unhappy? What is the real reason she wants you to quit?

Does she feel like the only one? The only one in your circle or her circle and it feels like life is passing her by and everyone else at church is settled and coming home? Does she need more friends? Her job making her unhappy? Is she envious of others or their families? Does she feel you are growing away from her? Does she feel left out? Do you come home and mostly have nothing to talk about except medical school (why would you have anything else to talk about?) and she can mainly just smile and nod? How are her days and evenings filled?

There is a great potential for resentment on both sides no matter what you do.

The way you tell this, makes her sound completely vacuous and unreasonable. But there has to be more to this, that there are some feelings that deserve to be taken seriously, for her to ask you to give up so much and you two to take on, what, like $100k in debt with nothing to show for it fixed at 8 percent?

Obviously it's easy to say she's being unreasonable and to suck it up because she should have known what you guys were getting into. Did you? Were you guys together in undergrad? Didn't you have crazy hours then? Did she? Did she graduate and start work and she got on with her nonacademic life and it sucks that you can't?

There's really a lot more we need to be able to give you better advice.

Step one is figuring out what is actually motivating this unhappiness.

There are more steps and I will try to come back to this.
 
The key for me/us is quality over quantity.

Now my career is mostly administrative, and hence I have lots of control over my hours, and I can often work from home if needed.

When my career was more clinically focused, I had much less control over my schedule. Yes, it was very busy. What worked for us was that I would ensure some time, every day (within reason). For example, when our kids were young I would finish at work and come home. Evening time was daddy time - reading books, doing homework, or just playing around. I'd put the kids to bed, and then get the rest of my work done.

If you do drop out, what do you plan to do? Most well paying, professional positions are long hours like this.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Yeah, I think I have a right to basically say "Hey dude, you signed up for this." I mean I worked crazy hours in college when we were dating (I had to put myself through on top of the premed stuff), and so did she. I just think she's sick of it, and I'm trying to be the bigger person here and sacrifice for her. But this is coming out of left field for me at least.

Probably not the wisest decision to cave though.

She is an engineer; like we'll be fine financially. But of course I've put many hours and several years of my life into this doctor thing. And for what it's worth, I've done very well in school.
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Time for some marital counseling. If she refuses to go just go yourself then.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Wow you're thorough man, thanks.

No kids, and no plans to have kids anytime soon. She has moved away from her family though, which does suck. She has some friends in town, but no super close friends except for my med school classmates, which surprise, are even busier than me.

We dated in undergrad and I worked like a DOG. harder than I do now actually. She didn't love it, but since her major was super hard, she was actually working closer hours to me, so she understood. We did long distance for M1 year while she finished up college, and I worked crazy hours again, I told her how bad it was. She said she'd support me, we got married in the summer, and now I'm mostly halfway through M2.

All your business/income/.life points are accurate obviously. Financially, between her job and money we have saved, we'll actually be fine wiping out the debt pretty quickly. But obviously her and my income combined won't even approach any kind of doctor, but money has never been the big thing for either of us.

As far as why she's unhappy- she loves her job. She certainly misses home/her family. She probably needs more friends (although she has a bible study she goes to every week, her coworkers are doing trivia Monday night, it's not like she has nobody). I think the big thing is she needs to find ways to occupy her time other than us hanging out- and I don't blame her for that, making friends in a new town can be tough. I can also be guilty of the whole talking about med school thing (although she's brought that up in the past and I've tried to be better).

Another weird thing is that she gets mad if I get lunch with my some guy friends of mine like once a week- her argument is that, since I'm strapped for time these days, all my free time should go to her. To me, that's not healthy, but I think that's more a result of she wants to see me more as opposed to her not wanting me to do things.

She feels like I'm not spontaneous enough, romantic enough, etc. I schedule everything in my life down to a T, but I could improve on this as well.

She was a lot more understanding when she was working as hard as me to get her degree. Now she's got a great 9-5 and comes home and we hang out, or she goofs around watching TV/on her phone.

She's not a bad person. I don't blame anyone for not wanting her husband to work 70-80 hours a week until he's 30 (although there are breaks, 4th year, etc). But it is weird that I told her it would be like this, she said she was down for it, and now she's like nah.

And I could tell her to just suck it up and she wouldn't divorce me. But I'd hate for my wife to be unhappy in our marriage until I get out of training.
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A lot has changed for her since she finished her degree and started work, and now she has more free time. But she knows/always knew the time commitment you have to complete medical school and the job demands of a doctor.
Whose idea was it to marry this summer?
Her thinking that you would be more romantic/spontaneous/have all the time in the world once you were married is some magical fairytale thinking. If she has known you for this many years she knows you are a planner/scheduler. Most engineers are like this too...
I'm concerned that this conflict is coming up after less than a year of marriage. MS3 and MS4 hours will be more irregular/unpredictable and with later nights/overnights.
I agree with @Goro on the idea of marriage counseling, before the conflict gets worse and things have been said that can't be unsaid.
If she doesn't want to go and says the problem is all you and not her, that will say a lot but you should talk to someone on your own anyway.
 
Goro said:
Time for some marital counseling. If she refuses to go just go yourself then.
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I agree with Goro. I'm assuming that none of the folks you tagged are therapists.

I can't offer advice from my life because I got married and had kids after I was set up in my practice.

When specifically did this change of heart occur? Was there something that changed in her life that suddenly required your presence. Is there something missing for her now that was there before?

I'm sure you've told her that making a drastic change would create lifelong resentment on your part. This is assuming that you still want to be a doctor. She's being very selfish if she's given you an ultimatum.
 
I think it’s crazy to drop out of school at this point. You spent years getting to where you are and you’d give it up because it’s convenient for her? If you drop out of school I’d be surprised if you don’t end up resenting your wife later, you’ll feel like you aren’t happy and that it’s her fault for making you drop out.

She knew what the commitment was when she met you, it’s not fair for her to change your dreams just because she has reached hers already and now it’s not convenient for her for you to continue your dreams. Imagine you drop out of school for her and there are still other issues with a new job you have…you work too much and still aren’t spontaneous enough. What happens then? What if she wants to divorce and you made all this sacrifice for nothing.
 
Hollow Knight said:
I appreciate all the responses you guys.

My wife came to me today independently, after we've been debating this for several weeks, and basically apologized for "being ridiculous" and "setting unrealistic expectations." (her words not mine).

Honestly I feel ridiculous posting this now. But I'm still going to go find a marriage counselor because this chaos isn't good. I'll let you guys know how it goes I guess.

Sorry for the drama. But obviously I have pretty big problems to work through since this was even a conversation.

To answer your question Angler- we've been talking about this for a few weeks now. She's been all in to support my training (at least with her words) up until that point.
To answer your question WysDoc- mostly her idea. I mean I proposed, but she was sending me sales on rings...... and we figured this summer would be the last time we'd have significant time off until after residency.
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A good conversation you can have some time is to see what each of you need, to feel valued and appreciated. She might not know what your expectations or hopes are.
Also, since you have been going out for quite some time before marrying, what did you imagine would "be different" or feel different about being married, compared to dating?
 
Glad things are better. I agree with getting some counseling anyway.

I seem to have a habit of recommending podcasts; I find them very useful when I walk my dog. That's him to the left, in his uniform. Anyway, there is a series by a couple of General Surgery Residents at Tennessee Chattanooga with random topics. Here is one episode about how marriage is, during a Surgery residency. These wives are pretty happy.

dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com

DFWTP Epi. 25 - Spouses in surgery - Don't F*** with the Pancreas

Drs. Fairchild and Buttress have very special guest this episode.. spouses. Hear first hand what it is like to be the person behind the scenes supporting surgery residents throughout medical school and early residency years.
dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com
 
Angler said:
Glad things are better. I agree with getting some counseling anyway.

I seem to have a habit of recommending podcasts; I find them very useful when I walk my dog. That's him to the left, in his uniform. Anyway, there is a series by a couple of General Surgery Residents at Tennessee Chattanooga with random topics. Here is one episode about how marriage is, during a Surgery residency. These wives are pretty happy.

dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com

DFWTP Epi. 25 - Spouses in surgery - Don't F*** with the Pancreas

Drs. Fairchild and Buttress have very special guest this episode.. spouses. Hear first hand what it is like to be the person behind the scenes supporting surgery residents throughout medical school and early residency years.
dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com dfwthepancreas.buzzsprout.com
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I'll give it a listen!
 
wysdoc said:
A good conversation you can have some time is to see what each of you need, to feel valued and appreciated. She might not know what your expectations or hopes are.
Also, since you have been going out for quite some time before marrying, what did you imagine would "be different" or feel different about being married, compared to dating?
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As far as what would be different- we're both super religious. So we didn't live together, etc before we got married. So we did end up doing all the things- combining finances, moving in together, etc.
 
I always choose my partners in part by their level of support from the start, so I would never (or less likely) have this problem.

You can choose who you marry, and if you've married someone who is being demanding and possible emotionally manipulative, then maybe you should reconsider who you want to marry in the future who can be more supportive towards your career and ambitions.
 
Hollow Knight said:
So guys- I'm considering withdrawing from school for my marriage.

My wife wants me to work no more than 50-60 hours a week. I could pass the rest of M2 doing that, but I'm gonna have to work harder than that (so I'm told) during my dedicated period to pass step 1. I also think I'll be putting in more hours than that during some third year rotations. And I KNOW I'll be putting in more hours than that during residency.

I come home from school every day and my wife and I watch a show. We go on a date every week. We go to church together on Sunday. That's reasonable. She says that's not enough though- she wants me to kinda be a more 50 hours a week kind of student and then just chill and hang out after 5:00pm everyday.

Am I being unreasonable? Does most of medical training only involve 50-60 hour workweeks?

Cause my wife just can't take the 70-80 hour thing, and I'm thinking of jumping ship now while my debt is small enough to pay off without a doc's salary.
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Wow, seriously? You worked hard to get into med school and now she is pulling this? If she is not on board while you are in med school, she is definitely not going to be on board during residency which will be so much worse. You are going to need to make a decision NOW. I've had 2 divorces. On my third marriage. Spouses come and go but my career has been constant. You need to do what is right for YOU, not what is right for her. My first husband was not on board with me going to medical school. He left me for another woman because he was not willing to move for my career. He still lives in that same unfinished house in poverty. Not my problem and I'm not stuck there with him.
 
cabinbuilder said:
Wow, seriously? You worked hard to get into med school and now she is pulling this? If she is not on board while you are in med school, she is definitely not going to be on board during residency which will be so much worse. You are going to need to make a decision NOW. I've had 2 divorces. On my third marriage. Spouses come and go but my career has been constant. You need to do what is right for YOU, not what is right for her. My first husband was not on board with me going to medical school. He left me for another woman because he was not willing to move for my career. He still lives in that same unfinished house in poverty. Not my problem and I'm not stuck there with him.
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Even though Im agreeing with you, the fact that you would be on your fourth marriage if your current one failed is frightening.
 
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cabinbuilder said:
Wow, seriously? You worked hard to get into med school and now she is pulling this? If she is not on board while you are in med school, she is definitely not going to be on board during residency which will be so much worse. You are going to need to make a decision NOW. I've had 2 divorces. On my third marriage. Spouses come and go but my career has been constant. You need to do what is right for YOU, not what is right for her. My first husband was not on board with me going to medical school. He left me for another woman because he was not willing to move for my career. He still lives in that same unfinished house in poverty. Not my problem and I'm not stuck there with him.
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I'm sorry you've been through all of that. I appreciate you sharing.

The current situation- we're going to start couple's counseling. My wife also apologized for what it's worth, said she was being unrealistic.

I also told her I can't take the yo-yo thing. And while I was considering changing careers to make her happy..... I'm starting to be of the mindset that I'll treat her with kindness and do the best I can and then wash my hands of the outcome.

We'll see how counseling goes though. I'll update this thread after I (pass?) step 1 here in a couple months and get out on rotations, and we hopefully have some good discussions.

I did make it clear from waaaaay before we got married what medical training would entail, and she said she was on board, so it's not like I'm being awful to her here. But I can totally acknowledge from a partner's perspective that being married to a medical student/resident can probably suck.
 
My only advice is don’t capitulate based on someone else’s wishes, your wife or others included. You will regret it when/if a day pops up and you’re an electrician/hvac/plumber and you servicing a doctors house and saying wow what could have been.
Not fulfilling and going through with your dreams especially at the behest of someone else is breeding ground for resentment in future. You may be different but it is my lived experience.
 
First. Marriage is hard. 1st year of marriage is really hard due to unrealized expectations. I strongly advise mentorship with an older physican couple. Paul Tripp’s marriage bible study is great as well as Intimate Encounters. My medical school’s branch of CMDA had a good marriage focused group. The leaders are some our dearest friends today who I still go to for advise.

Most people who don’t have physician family members have no idea what is “normal” for medical school and residency.

The discussion should be about what is best for your family. Not what is best for “you”. You both should decide what the future plan for your family is going to look like. Medical school and residency looks like at least 5 more years where you have almost zero control over your schedule. Maybe you don’t need to be the biggest gunner in school. Maybe you should try not to binge watch TV when you have time off. Maybe you should choose an office based speciality. There are decisions you should make as a family.
 
Robin-jay said:
Efen though Im agreeing with you, the fact that you would be on your fourth marriage if your current one failed is frightening.
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Well, the third time's the charm I suppose. It's not like I've just jumped from marriage to marriage either. My first marriage was 12 years. My second was 14 years. Won't get divorced again - way too expensive. Would just live separately if that would ever to happen but have too much invested these days.
 
OP, my first marriage was like this.

Married the summer before senior year of college. She had just graduated nursing school.
First wife started griping about moving to start medical school, even before we moved (it was in a different state than college).
Her pushback against time spent studying got worse once medical school started. Her expectations were very unrealistic.
First wife pushed me into having our first child halfway through medical school, even though I did not think it was a good idea and we did not have the time or wherewithal for it (we didn’t live near family).
She left and moved back to home state with my daughter one week after she was born…while I was on my IM rotation.
She didn’t follow me to residency, which was in a third state. We lived apart for years, with me driving back and forth almost 5 hours each way whenever I had a free moment to try to bail out what was clearly a sinking ship. Divorce followed when I was in fellowship, after we hadn’t lived together in 5 years.

My second wife, who is an academic, actually “gets it” and is amazing. She works hard herself and values my hard work. First wife, on the other hand, was an exploitative manipulator who did all of this to try to trap me into paying an insane amount of child support each month. I haven’t seen my kid in years, and I fork over a stupidly huge amount of child support each month so she can live with her new abusive drug addict husband with my kid…it appears that most of my support payments are getting blown on his drugs and booze every month, while my kid is getting abused. We are still in family court fighting about all of this, years later. (Sadly, there is more going on here that I don’t even want to get into.) That marriage took a major toll on my health and wellness, and continues to be a distracting waste of energy and money even years after it has ended.

As the old song goes, “know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run”.

I wish I had gotten out of that first ****show marriage before it turned into a chronic toxic mess.

Also, do not - under any circumstances - quit medical school because of this. This is a career YOU wanted, YOU pursued, and YOU deserve. This marriage may not go the distance. Your career will, if you apply effort to it.

My ex brought up the idea of quitting medical school on several occasions. One of the best decisions I ever made was firmly, repeatedly, saying “no” to that idea.

I think family is really important, but I also think it’s really important that they be on board with your career goals. Especially when the career as as many potential benefits as medicine.
 
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dozitgetchahi said:
OP, my first marriage was like this.

Married the summer before senior year of college. She had just graduated nursing school.
First wife started griping about moving to start medical school, even before we moved (it was in a different state than college).
Her pushback against time spent studying got worse once medical school started. Her expectations were very unrealistic.
First wife pushed me into having our first child halfway through medical school, even though I did not think it was a good idea and we did not have the time or wherewithal for it (we didn’t live near family).
She left and moved back to home state with my daughter one week after she was born…while I was on my IM rotation.
She didn’t follow me to residency, which was in a third state. We lived apart for years, with me driving back and forth almost 5 hours each way whenever I had a free moment to try to bail out what was clearly a sinking ship. Divorce followed when I was in fellowship, after we hadn’t lived together in 5 years.

My second wife, who is an academic, actually “gets it” and is amazing. She works hard herself and values my hard work. First wife, on the other hand, was an exploitative manipulator who did all of this to try to trap me into paying an insane amount of child support each month. I haven’t seen my kid in years, and I fork over a stupidly huge amount of child support each month so she can live with her new abusive drug addict husband with my kid…it appears that most of my support payments are getting blown on his drugs and booze every month, while my kid is getting abused. We are still in family court fighting about all of this, years later. (Sadly, there is more going on here that I don’t even want to get into.) That marriage took a major toll on my health and wellness, and continues to be a distracting waste of energy and money even years after it has ended.

As the old song goes, “know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run”.

I wish I had gotten out of that first ****show marriage before it turned into a chronic toxic mess.

Also, do not - under any circumstances - quit medical school because of this. This is a career YOU wanted, YOU pursued, and YOU deserve. This marriage may not go the distance. Your career will, if you apply effort to it.

My ex brought up the idea of quitting medical school on several occasions. One of the best decisions I ever made was firmly, repeatedly, saying “no” to that idea.

I think family is really important, but I also think it’s really important that they be on board with your career goals. Especially when the career as as many potential benefits as medicine.
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That's awful man, sorry. Thanks for sharing.
 
I think if you are enjoying your current classes and finding them fascinating you probably have a good motivator to continue, and I think you would be doing a disservice to yourself to drop out in that case that would cause you to resent her immensely. It does sound like she is struggling with loneliness in her life and she would benefit from finding ways to fill her free time without you. In my opinion having like minded friends in medical school is indispensable, they are war buddies. My friends kept me from flunking out due to feeling no one was struggling as much as me, everyone in med school was different to me, etc. I found my pack of like minded weirdos and it gave me the will to continue. They are still my friends.

I’m glad she acknowledged her expectations were unrealistic and she wasn’t being fair, but her struggles with loneliness aren’t going to go away, and I think you are wise to suggest marriage therapy.
 
Have y'all done the love languages test? It sounds like she may not have been getting what she needed.

A really good read (either audiobook or hard copy) is "why marriages succeed or fail," from John Gottman. He has a few other fantastic books about marriage, having kids, and raising kids. Pretty much any of his books are worth reading, but the one recommended would help for your current scenario.

As a fellow married student, good luck! I'm in my first year. We've got 2 kids along for the ride, and my wife works while also taking care of them and "running the house". A partner for the task can be hard to find, but I'm sure communication will be your key to sorting it out.
It sounds like it has already helped a TON.
 
wysdoc said:
A good conversation you can have some time is to see what each of you need, to feel valued and appreciated. She might not know what your expectations or hopes are.
Also, since you have been going out for quite some time before marrying, what did you imagine would "be different" or feel different about being married, compared to dating?
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Have to note, that if they are church-going, depending on their beliefs, marriage could "feel" *very* different than dating if you get my drift 🤣
 
cabinbuilder said:
Well, the third time's the charm I suppose. It's not like I've just jumped from marriage to marriage either. My first marriage was 12 years. My second was 14 years. Won't get divorced again - way too expensive. Would just live separately if that would ever to happen but have too much invested these days.
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On one hand, taking advice from someone on their third marriage... (poking fun) but more seriously, the 3rd marriage is often where people figure their **** out.

I highly recommend this dude's website, he talks about a lot of things but as a marriage counselor he does see that third marriage is where people learn pattern.


I didn't marry 3 times but I may as well have. Partner #3 is where it's worked best. A lot of it has to do with personal growth he and I both made in past relationships. But our relationship isn't littered with the resentments created from growing pains.

Generally people don't get this stuff from school or their families. You have to become self taught.

I'm not a therapist, no. I can point you to this therapist's work. And depending on the details of your life, some of the 12 Step Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families. Thich Nhat Hanh. I can say that I have had years of therapy, and these were resources my therapists recommended or I found, that were life changing for me.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
OP, my first marriage was like this.

Married the summer before senior year of college. She had just graduated nursing school.
First wife started griping about moving to start medical school, even before we moved (it was in a different state than college).
Her pushback against time spent studying got worse once medical school started. Her expectations were very unrealistic.
First wife pushed me into having our first child halfway through medical school, even though I did not think it was a good idea and we did not have the time or wherewithal for it (we didn’t live near family).
She left and moved back to home state with my daughter one week after she was born…while I was on my IM rotation.
She didn’t follow me to residency, which was in a third state. We lived apart for years, with me driving back and forth almost 5 hours each way whenever I had a free moment to try to bail out what was clearly a sinking ship. Divorce followed when I was in fellowship, after we hadn’t lived together in 5 years.

My second wife, who is an academic, actually “gets it” and is amazing. She works hard herself and values my hard work. First wife, on the other hand, was an exploitative manipulator who did all of this to try to trap me into paying an insane amount of child support each month. I haven’t seen my kid in years, and I fork over a stupidly huge amount of child support each month so she can live with her new abusive drug addict husband with my kid…it appears that most of my support payments are getting blown on his drugs and booze every month, while my kid is getting abused. We are still in family court fighting about all of this, years later. (Sadly, there is more going on here that I don’t even want to get into.) That marriage took a major toll on my health and wellness, and continues to be a distracting waste of energy and money even years after it has ended.

As the old song goes, “know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run”.

I wish I had gotten out of that first ****show marriage before it turned into a chronic toxic mess.

Also, do not - under any circumstances - quit medical school because of this. This is a career YOU wanted, YOU pursued, and YOU deserve. This marriage may not go the distance. Your career will, if you apply effort to it.

My ex brought up the idea of quitting medical school on several occasions. One of the best decisions I ever made was firmly, repeatedly, saying “no” to that idea.

I think family is really important, but I also think it’s really important that they be on board with your career goals. Especially when the career as as many potential benefits as medicine.
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I agree with all of this, but I also caution people about putting all their life eggs into the career basket.

The reality is that this isn't a question of which is "more right" for you or not. They are in some ways independent elements of your life, the decision of which to keep or not has more to do with how you relate to them independently.

The issue is that the person asking you to make this kind of sacrifice on their behalf... I mean this can be a red flag of the relationship regardless what your job is. If that is true, no job choice in the world makes a big difference. In which case quitting medicine will not fix it.

Not sure I went into it, but med school is not actually the biggest challenge a lifelong relationship is likely to meet. Having children, being ill, death, moving, disability, relatives, aging parents, children struggling, financial troubles... these are all potentially much more difficult, and you may face any number of them.

So a relationship has to be able to stand up to all these things, regardless of what they are, to last. So throwing in the towel to solve the current problem of med school is one approach, but not all the problems ahead will be so easily dealt with. So again, not being able to work through it is a red flag. Not just so you can follow this particular dream, but because this is not the last or tallest hurdle.

What this means longterm is the most significant thing. THAT is a reason not to quit medicine for this relationship. Not necessarily because career is the thing you can count on more. But because it might just mean you can't count on this relationship. And making certain sacrifices for something like that, is what may not be worth it long term.

That said, you can continue with medicine without giving up on your relationship. People have given some great advice this thread.

I'm probably some sort of naive or overselling, but I truly believe that two people who aligned well enough to marry in the first place, if both parties break down enough within themselves to really be willing to take responsibility and work on themselves, if you really embraced and applied the psychology and tips on Al Turtle's website, and had marriage counseling, could probably make things work. Barring certain incompatibilities (children or not, open relationship vs closed, etc).

I think being Christian and what that means for an approach to marriage, is a reason to bust ass trying to save it. But to quit med school would be trying to take the "easy way" now to do so, without doing the work that is needed to meet any number of challenges. This is a maturity thing too.

Your marriage will be much better if you two can meet the challenges without you quitting, is my prediction.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Thanks for the reply!

I'm going to write an update post, but basically I'm good now. I spent a good amount of time with my wife the last few months. Now, I'm not anywhere close to where I need to be step 1 wise....... so I'll update when I pass or fail that.

My wife has depression, which she hadn't told me about yet. And you're right- she just needs more time. But she's working on the mental health stuff, has made some friends, and I spent more time, so my marriage is a lot better now.
Click to expand...
I’m so glad things are better, and that you and her were able to come to a compromise and a way to improve her well being. Being a young human being is difficult and I felt some folks were being a bit harsh to her in this thread, because it is one of the most difficult things in the world to figure out what your feelings are really about and how to address them in a healthy way. She was struggling with loneliness and misidentified the cause and the solution, we all have done that at some point and the fact she so quickly realized her suggestion was out of line is a “green flag” as they say on Reddit.
 
Hollow Knight said:
So guys- I'm considering withdrawing from school for my marriage.

My wife wants me to work no more than 50-60 hours a week. I could pass the rest of M2 doing that, but I'm gonna have to work harder than that (so I'm told) during my dedicated period to pass step 1. I also think I'll be putting in more hours than that during some third year rotations. And I KNOW I'll be putting in more hours than that during residency.

I come home from school every day and my wife and I watch a show. We go on a date every week. We go to church together on Sunday. That's reasonable. She says that's not enough though- she wants me to kinda be a more 50 hours a week kind of student and then just chill and hang out after 5:00pm everyday.

Am I being unreasonable? Does most of medical training only involve 50-60 hour workweeks?

Cause my wife just can't take the 70-80 hour thing, and I'm thinking of jumping ship now while my debt is small enough to pay off without a doc's salary.
Click to expand...
are you crazy? She needs to get it together. This is from a christian and someone who went through this myself, she is being unreasonable
 
Hollow Knight said:
So guys- I'm considering withdrawing from school for my marriage.

My wife wants me to work no more than 50-60 hours a week. I could pass the rest of M2 doing that, but I'm gonna have to work harder than that (so I'm told) during my dedicated period to pass step 1. I also think I'll be putting in more hours than that during some third year rotations. And I KNOW I'll be putting in more hours than that during residency.

I come home from school every day and my wife and I watch a show. We go on a date every week. We go to church together on Sunday. That's reasonable. She says that's not enough though- she wants me to kinda be a more 50 hours a week kind of student and then just chill and hang out after 5:00pm everyday.

Am I being unreasonable? Does most of medical training only involve 50-60 hour workweeks?

Cause my wife just can't take the 70-80 hour thing, and I'm thinking of jumping ship now while my debt is small enough to pay off without a doc's salary.
Click to expand...
do you have kids yet? If not please consider dropping the marriage, not the degree because she is going to get Worse after having kids because that is very isolating in itself. If she cant handle being a doctor's wife she needs to get out now. Again, Im not trying to be harsh, Im just someone who has gone through all of this (as the spouse) but I understood how hard medical school. She doesn't.
 
not sure if this has been brought up. i went to an IM residency and 70-80 hour weeks were not the standard. iirc it was more like 50-70 avg and its all just a transitional period. once u start working u literally pick ur own hours (for a hospitalist at least).

much of med school was self study , rotations also were not 70-80 hour weeks. alot of studying is done on ur own terms and with time management maybe its not so hard to also have family time. im sure it varies where u are but thats juts my experience. attitudes on life changes over time too, maybe when u guys need to have kids/buy house etc, u having a doctor salary/ more free time later will be more important than 1 hour of extra family time in the next few years.

if u go to a 3 yr residency its just another 5 years. and u will have as much family time as u want for the rest of your life. with flexible schedule+good pay to support your family. you have put in so much effort to get to where u are now. its should be up to her to understand and accomodate you during these few hard years.

relationships are very personal i dont know the intricacies of yours, but those are just my thoughts.
 
Dated GF from college through Med school x 6 years. Never fought, always got along, thought we would get married. Started Residency and she finished Pharm school so she had more time and I had less esp on the 100+hr/wk rotations. To this day, I have no idea where it came from but she wanted to take a "break" because I was just not available as she wanted. Sucked, moved on, too busy to put too much emotional time into that. In NO way would I have quit residency for her just so I could be more present. Sure I would be present but would be a lifetime of misery resentment.

Met my wife 2 month later and she is the most understanding person on this planet. She lived 3 hrs away but came to visit every few months. She would come, see me for a few hours some weekends, spent the whole weekend at my place cooking/cleaning/packing food/bringing food to hospital. Never complained. Never asked me to be more present. Completely supportive. Looking back now, almost too good to be true. I can't imagine a better marriage after 20 years.

OP, you have a huge red flag on your hands. Your spouse can not selfishly tell you to quit med school and the next day take it back. Good luck man. I have no idea what happened but its the tip of the iceberg. You have only been married a year, I would have a quick ejection button. Really odd to me that this is coming from an Engineer who are typically analytical. This makes no analytical sense.
 
Hey everyone coming in with some serious hate on the wife and "get out now"

2 things:
One, sounds like she's clinically depressed. Not saying that's an excuse, but it can be a reason to say something dumb and emotional and take it back later. Not like she said something more unforgivable, "quit med school so I can spend more time with you because I'm lonely and sad" while immature, is the least awful selfishly sad thing I can think of someone saying impulsively and walking back. Consider how many times many of us, even just to ourselves, asked if it was worth it. We can't be surprised that a spouse might say it out loud.

And two, is that they're already married. There is no quick ejection at that point. You shouldn't get married if you're go to answer clinical depression and a stupid comment immediately walked back, with a recognition of needing help, with divorce.

No where has the advice been that the right reaction is to quit. But the guy can decide not to quit without also quitting on his marriage at this point.

I agree it's a red flag, but red flags are only good as a warning not to continue before getting into trouble. He's already married. So this can't be a red flag for that milestone.

I do think it's fair to say that kids should not be on the horizon until this gets sorted out. Don't get in any deeper than you already are.

And it doesn't matter what you "thought" would happen when you commit to the unknown. There's always what we think something is going to be like, and then what it actually is. Of course a healthy relationship you should already have a sense of each other's strengths and weaknesses and some idea how the other party reacts to the unknown, but not all stress responses can be known ahead of time. That's why it's a commitment and there are hurdles to work through. Med school is like that and so is marriage.

Yes, a medical career is like being married to your job. That's one marriage. The other is, your IRL marriage to a human being. Think of it like polygamy. Yes, you may have the favorite wife, but you can't easily divorce the other. And you're best off if you can get them to get along. It isn't easy. But neither bed you climbed into was gonna be.

It feels like a certain self centered physician career is everything myopia the way some have responded here, especially with the "tough cookies baby here's the divorce paperwork" attitude. Again, I would understand it more if they weren't already married. If you all would walk away from your marriage so easily you shouldn't have gotten married to begin with.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Edit: update/conclusion post
So guys- I'm considering withdrawing from school for my marriage.

My wife wants me to work no more than 50-60 hours a week. I could pass the rest of M2 doing that, but I'm gonna have to work harder than that (so I'm told) during my dedicated period to pass step 1. I also think I'll be putting in more hours than that during some third year rotations. And I KNOW I'll be putting in more hours than that during residency.

I come home from school every day and my wife and I watch a show. We go on a date every week. We go to church together on Sunday. That's reasonable. She says that's not enough though- she wants me to kinda be a more 50 hours a week kind of student and then just chill and hang out after 5:00pm everyday.

Am I being unreasonable? Does most of medical training only involve 50-60 hour workweeks?

Cause my wife just can't take the 70-80 hour thing, and I'm thinking of jumping ship now while my debt is small enough to pay off without a doc's salary.
Click to expand...
If you don’t mind my two cents: I am a divorce lawyer, and have seen pretty much everything there is in my field. While I don’t know you or your wife, I’ve found that when one spouse makes demands (or even significant pressure-based requests) at the expense of the other, resentment grows. That is to say: if you give up med school to have more time for her, how would you feel about that? Would you feel like your boundaries were respected? Maybe the answer is that you’d be fine. But if you feel like you wouldn’t be fine—even a little—I strongly caution you against giving in.

The marriages that I see fail tend to be those where a spouse has made significant lifestyle demands on the other. It leads to all sorts of bad stuff.

I suppose what I’m trying to say—in my typical verbose way—is I hope that you and your wife can focus on “needs” as opposed to “positions.” Her position may be you can’t work more than 50 hours per week; but her need may be that she wants to feel lived and validated. When needs are observed and explored, positions often soften.

Best of luck to you!
 
DivorceLawyer2011 said:
If you don’t mind my two cents: I am a divorce lawyer, and have seen pretty much everything there is in my field. While I don’t know you or your wife, I’ve found that when one spouse makes demands (or even significant pressure-based requests) at the expense of the other, resentment grows. That is to say: if you give up med school to have more time for her, how would you feel about that? Would you feel like your boundaries were respected? Maybe the answer is that you’d be fine. But if you feel like you wouldn’t be fine—even a little—I strongly caution you against giving in.

The marriages that I see fail tend to be those where a spouse has made significant lifestyle demands on the other. It leads to all sorts of bad stuff.

I suppose what I’m trying to say—in my typical verbose way—is I hope that you and your wife can focus on “needs” as opposed to “positions.” Her position may be you can’t work more than 50 hours per week; but her need may be that she wants to feel lived and validated. When needs are observed and explored, positions often soften.

Best of luck to you!
Click to expand...
Lol from a business standpoint this might be a great forum for you to hang around in 🤣

No but seriously, when you get to certain point on this forum there are another group of people around here that would probably love to hear your stories.

I don't know why I'm so excited to see an attorney here 🤣 I'm very happily married. But I am also verbose 🤣

Also I love the laughy emoji

It's probably because we like experts and specialists of all types around here

Welcome!
 
Lol nvm post history shows you're possibly making the mistake of shifting careers. I kid. Maybe.

Still your particular set of legal skills will no doubt have good translation to medicine. No I am not joking
 
Im
Crayola227 said:
Lol from a business standpoint this might be a great forum for you to hang around in 🤣

No but seriously, when you get to certain point on this forum there are another group of people around here that would probably love to hear your stories.

I don't know why I'm so excited to see an attorney here 🤣 I'm very happily married. But I am also verbose 🤣

Also I love the laughy emoji

It's probably because we like experts and specialists of all types around here

Welcome!
Click to expand...
I’m glad to meet a fellow verbose person! Beyond my practice I teach at a local university, and my students often joke about how I can answer a simple question with a 2-hour lecture.

This is an interesting forum; it is full of experts in various fields. It’s fascinating to read everyone’s stories and perspectives!
 
DivorceLawyer2011 said:
This is an interesting forum; it is full of experts in various fields. It’s fascinating to read everyone’s stories and perspectives!
Click to expand...
It's a fascinating place to read about things. You can learn a lot here. It can be a real time sink though. It's full of real experts and those who only think they are. Those who really want to help others and those who just troll. Just remember that, in the end, it is an anonymous forum, and often you get what you paid for.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Edit: update/conclusion post
So guys- I'm considering withdrawing from school for my marriage.

My wife wants me to work no more than 50-60 hours a week. I could pass the rest of M2 doing that, but I'm gonna have to work harder than that (so I'm told) during my dedicated period to pass step 1. I also think I'll be putting in more hours than that during some third year rotations. And I KNOW I'll be putting in more hours than that during residency.

I come home from school every day and my wife and I watch a show. We go on a date every week. We go to church together on Sunday. That's reasonable. She says that's not enough though- she wants me to kinda be a more 50 hours a week kind of student and then just chill and hang out after 5:00pm everyday.

Am I being unreasonable? Does most of medical training only involve 50-60 hour workweeks?

Cause my wife just can't take the 70-80 hour thing, and I'm thinking of jumping ship now while my debt is small enough to pay off without a doc's salary.
Click to expand...
What about withdraw from marriage for school? WHY does your wife want you to work 50-60 hours a week? Like what?
What is the problem with more hours? They can always hurt you more.
You can't count on the hours. Go into medicine cuz you like medicine. If you don't, please f*cking don't. 'Nuff said.

P.S. No comment
 
Hollow Knight said:
Well this update didn’t take long. My wife is filing for divorce, doesn't want to try to work things out/counselling/anything.

For any scared premeds reading this in the future- it wasn't med school. My wife is just unhappy with me. Your relationship isn't doomed. However, I put so much effort into this marriage to save it (she says jump, I say how high, etc) that it definitely negatively impacted my schooling. I have no regrets necessarily, I'm glad I tried, but I wish I would have stood up for my own needs a little more.

Thanks for all the support from you guys in this thread.

Also, for future readers- I offered to drop out of med school for this woman (because to me, this marriage was more important than my career). Thankfully, she looked at our finances and told me to stay in for the money...... but imagine if I had dropped out! Now I'd be out of medicine and she would've just left anyway............. be careful out there. It's OK for you to have dreams too.
Click to expand...
Any update? How are you doing

I always wonder how ppl’s divorces go
I always say you may see a side to your spouse as they become exspouse that you never saw before!
 
This may be unpopular but what happens if the marriage doesn't work out? Will you be happy having given up your career choice? We all go through highs and lows in a marriage so perhaps some counseling may be in order to help sort things out a bit and see if there is a reasonable compromise to reach. It will only get harder in Residency.
 
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