Am I competitive/should I retake MCAT with these stats?

[Thisisthelife]

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Well, how much did you study for the 33 score? Was there something going on at that time that kept you from doing as well as you think you could have? How were you scoring on the practice tests before taking the real one? If you were scoring ~33 on the practice exams, you need to consider if you will even be able to make some changes to bump your score up by about 4 points or so. Also, are you planning on retaking with the new MCAT, or do you have a last-minute seat held in January (if so, not much time to study left..)

Just some questions that might help people give you better advice, once you provide the answers.

DONT FEED THE TROLL

 

[Lamel]

DONT FEED THE TROLL

You don't know what a troll is, you're just annoyed that he has good stats.

 

[ridethecliche]

I didn't say it was in manhattan..... I said they match into schools in manhattan. Did you read? Here's a direct quote so you can again... "If you are determined for the manhattan programs, I interviewed at Albert Einstein who has a pretty impressive match list where many students go into the schools you mentioned above." My point being landing a top residency is more important than attending a top school. OP's chances are tiny and he may have to go somewhere like Albert Einstein where he can still match into manhattan programs.

When we're talking about 'Manhattan programs' in relation to medical school, no one is talking about residency. You need to learn to be more specific and use your words and refer to things by their name like 'residency' and 'medical school' instead of saying programs because it's ambiguous and no one but you had any idea what you were talking about.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Here's a tip: OP, if you are looking for a way to improve your app, volunteer more. Clinical or non-clinical.

 

[amad01]

When we're talking about 'Manhattan programs' in relation to medical school, no one is talking about residency. You need to learn to be more specific and use your words and refer to things by their name like 'residency' and 'medical school' instead of saying programs because it's ambiguous and no one but you had any idea what you were talking about.

So you thought I meant OP could go to Albert Einstein and match into manhattan programs for medical school to do it all over again? My mistake.... thought everyone here would understand what matching into manhattan programs would mean.
OP you can go to a mid-tier MEDICAL SCHOOL and still MATCH into a manhattan RESIDENCY. GL

 

[ridethecliche]

So you thought I meant OP could go to Albert Einstein and match into manhattan programs for medical school to do it all over again? My mistake.... thought everyone here would understand what matching into manhattan programs would mean.
OP you can go to a mid-tier MEDICAL SCHOOL and still MATCH into a manhattan RESIDENCY. GL

No that's not what I thought you meant, but keep digging.

This thread isn't and was never about residency.

 

[amad01]

No that's not what I thought you meant, but keep digging.

This thread isn't and was never about residency.

OP: I wanna retake mcat because I love manhattan.

I say don't do it you have very low odds, just go mid-tier and shoot for manhattan residency and it's all the same in the end. AKA you are not going to manhattan for med school, but you could still get into manhattan for residency if you feel you have to be there. So yes, my advice to OP does pertain to residency, a very big part of the becoming a physician process, perhaps even more important than where one goes to medical school. Im sorry if you don't like or cannot understand this. I'm just providing more options for OP.

 

[ridethecliche]

OP: I wanna retake mcat because I love manhattan.

I say don't do it you have very low odds, just go mid-tier and shoot for manhattan residency and it's all the same in the end. AKA you are not going to manhattan for med school, but you could still get into manhattan for residency if you feel you have to be there. So yes, my advice to OP does pertain to residency, a very big part of the becoming a physician process, perhaps even more important than where one goes to medical school. Im sorry if you don't like or cannot understand this. I'm just providing more options for OP.

Dig. Dig. Dig.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Do not retake a 33. Nothing good can come of this unless you drop like a 40, which would be enough for people to say "Oh, okay." The risk is way higher, as is the investment. Even a 36 is only 3 points more, it won't look great. Your stats, the 33, and good ECs will be enough. Obviously you can't guarantee an acceptance anywhere, but I think you're in good shape.

Nah, 33 to 36 is a big difference. Maybe not when you're talking about random state schools or low-tier schools. But those 3 points are huge when talking about NYU, Cornell, Mt Sinai, etc. That being said, retaking depends on your personal goals.

 

[Goro]

The odds of you scoring higher are less than scoring the same or worse. Just let go of the Harvards and their ilk, and aim for the numerous (at least 20-30 that I can think of) schools that you'll be very competitive for. MSAR Online is your friend

Stats:

*3.7 GPA at HYPSM school, grade-deflated (top 20% of class)
*MCAT: 33 (12 PS, 10 V, 11 BS)
*Extracurriculars: The usual premed stuff, but with some impressive lab research at reputable organizations, multiple hundred hours of clinical volunteering, multiple hundred hours of shadowing, hundred hours of other volunteering, alternative break trip leader, some added tutoring thrown in, service groups on campus, strong leadership, and other miscellaneous things.
*Good recs from science profs/non-science profs (top student in their class), as well as people i've worked with.

I'm planning on retaking the MCAT 2015 in order to be in the percentile range of a 36-37 equivalent because I'd really like to go to NYU, Mt. Sinai, Cornell, Columbia, etc. because of access to resources/hospital networks/city location/personal reasons, etc., as well as aiming for Cali schools (I know it's ridiculous) because of family reasons.

Does anyone have any opinions on this or my chances and whether I should retake?

I know a 33 is a good score and I'm not complaining about it at all, but I also recognize statistically it's below reach for a lot of schools I'd like to apply to and I'd like to give myself another chance before closing the door on a lot of potential opportunities.

 

[Kochanie]

Do you mean inflated?

When I read that, I thought, "so... Princeton".

 

[WedgeDawg]

When I read that, I thought, "so... Princeton".

Could be MIT

Edit: to actually contribute something here:

OP, if you study/practice more and start consistently scoring at least a 36-37 average/new equivalent on practice tests, then you might want to retake, but if you're still scoring around 33-35, then I don't think it would be worth the risk. Keep in mind that once you're hitting 36+, you start getting into 1 question = 1 point territory, so your actual performance may be worse than your practice average.

 

[Kochanie]

Could be MIT

True! Forgot that M lol. 🙂

 

[sunshine02]

If the rest of your application is stellar and you think you otherwise have what it takes to get into a top tier school, you need to add at least 3 (or 6) points to your MCAT. (Six points for schools that will average your two scores.) If you think that you can accomplish that, go for it. Every year we interview at least one person who has done this and every year one adcom member says, "Who retakes a 33?" and I reply, "Someone who wants to go here." and we laugh because we know we would not have given the same applicant an interview with just the 33.

LizzyM, are you saying that your school automatically screens out people with a 33?

 

[sunshine02]

Will talk to premed advisors after the holiday break... (they will probs tell me it's up to me in the end)... but I think I'll aim to retake!

Thanks for all the advice guys

The highest score on the new MCAT is a 528. If you retake, adcoms won't be as familiar with the new scoring system and thus won't be able to know whether a 500 on the new MCAT is better than a 33 on the current one. Therefore, they may just go with what they are familiar with and be more psychologically influenced by the 33.

I've been told that it's very normal to score below your practice tests. There was someone on here who was scoring 42's consistently on practice exams but ended up dropping 7 pts on the real exam. I also had a friend who took like 14 practice exams and scored a 38 on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM but ended up with a 34 on the real thing. It's just too hard to predict how you will do on the real exam and I think it's too risky to retake, especially since I know several people with 39's and 4.0's who've only gotten 1 II so far.

The time needed to study for the MCAT again will require sacrifices. I think this time could be used towards better endeavors.

 

[Reinvented_Virginian]

I'd vote against a retake. Many schools look at the most recent score...so if you get a lower score it'd hurt you.

And then there's the fact that a 33 is a perfectly fine score. Coming from HYP, you'll get in somewhere for sure if you apply strategically.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, are you saying that your school automatically screens out people with a 33?

Not automatic but it is rare for me to interview anyone with a 33 or less.

 

[Elysium10]

It's just too hard to predict how you will do on the real exam and I think it's too risky to retake, especially since I know several people with 39's and 4.0's who've only gotten 1 II so far.

Hold on a second. Not only do you know several people with the rare combination of a 39 and 4.0, but they've all only gotten 1 II so far?? That sounds like hyperbole to me.

 

[sunshine02]

Several as in 4 people I can count off the top of my head who go to my school.

 

[Elysium10]

Several as in 4 people I can count off the top of my head who go to my school.

And they've only had 1 interview each? What, did they apply to Yale and Harvard and call it a day?

 

[sunshine02]

And they've only had 1 interview each? What, did they apply to Yale and Harvard and call it a day?

Lol. I don't know where they all applied to, but I'm positive their list did include many top schools. Other factors might be wrong with their application too, but I wouldn't know. But then again I know others who have lower stats but have been flying all over the country for interviews, so beats me!

 

[LizzyM]

Lol. I don't know where they all applied to, but I'm positive their list did include many top schools. Other factors might be wrong with their application too, but I wouldn't know. But then again I know others who have lower stats but have been flying all over the country for interviews, so beats me!

I know the type... 4.0, 40. Experience section lists Dean's list and Phi Beta Kappa and honor society and something from HS like future health leaders summer camp but nothing else.

 

[Lamel]

I know the type... 4.0, 40. Experience section lists Dean's list and Phi Beta Kappa and honor society and something from HS like future health leaders summer camp but nothing else.

Lol this killed me.

 

[sunshine02]

I know the type... 4.0, 40. Experience section lists Dean's list and Phi Beta Kappa and honor society and something from HS like future health leaders summer camp but nothing else.

LizzyM, if an applicant's stats are a little bit below the average for your school's stats, do adcoms still pay as much attention to PS, LORs and ECs, or do they tend to skim over them if the numbers aren't as strong?

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, if an applicant's stats are a little bit below the average for your school's stats, do adcoms still pay as much attention to PS, LORs and ECs, or do they tend to skim over them if the numbers aren't as strong?

OK, so a little below average for my school would be 3.80/34. Such a student would be reviewed and if the EC, PS and LORs were well above average, the below average stats would still be strong enough for an interview.

 

[Goro]

Believe me, 4.0 automatons are indeed a dime-a-dozen.

Hold on a second. Not only do you know several people with the rare combination of a 39 and 4.0, but they've all only gotten 1 II so far?? That sounds like hyperbole to me.

My learned colleague's school must be located in the stratosphere!
😉
OK, so a little below average for my school would be 3.80/34. Such a student would be reviewed and if the EC, PS and LORs were well above average, the below average stats would still be strong enough for an interview.

 

[LizzyM]

Believe me, 4.0 automatons are indeed a dime-a-dozen.



My learned colleague's school must be located in the stratosphere!
😉
OK, so a little below average for my school would be 3.80/34. Such a student would be reviewed and if the EC, PS and LORs were well above average, the below average stats would still be strong enough for an interview.

It is sad, really. We miss out on many very talented applicants because, in my opinion, we are overly focused on numbers.

 

[sunshine02]

It is sad, really. We miss out on many very talented applicants because, in my opinion, we are overly focused on numbers.

What's also sad is that the MCAT score only represents one day in your life. What I mean is that many people score lower than their test average. For example, in my post above I mentioned my friend who scored 38 on every single practice test (and he took like 14 of them) but scored a 34 on the real thing. The consistency of scoring 38 on every single aamc practice test says more about his ability than that one day when something went awry and he scored 34, but sadly adcoms will never know and will only see that 34. He didn't retake b/c he figured it was too risky.

 

[FFH]

What's also sad is that the MCAT score only represents one day in your life. What I mean is that many people score lower than their test average. For example, in my post above I mentioned my friend who scored 38 on every single practice test (and he took like 14 of them) but scored a 34 on the real thing. The consistency of scoring 38 on every single aamc practice test says more about his ability than that one day when something went awry and he scored 34, but sadly adcoms will never know and will only see that 34. He didn't retake b/c he figured it was too risky.

I understand that you've heard a couple cases in which your friends had scored below their practice average. Small sample size aside. We first have to take into consideration how reliable this self reported information was. Vanity can add a lot to people's story. Then, we have to look at the type of practice tests they were talking about. Kaplan ones are easier and less relevant. It is likely that your friends' did not only report his AAMC average. since one of them took 14 practices tests, a number exceeded the one that was made available by AAMC.

While I was waiting for my score, I read through all the MCAT threads for this year, which had a lot of self reported data (which are anonymous so vanity possibly plays a lot less role there than in person), It seemed that AAMC practice test averages were good predictors for actual scores. Someone did a study regarding the predictive power of different practice tests: http://www.studentdoc.com/practice-mcat.html and concluded the same. This year it seems to me that more often than not, people actually scored above their AAMC averages. I personally have a extremely stable AAMC MCAT score with a STDEV=1 and I scored exactly at my AAMC average on the real deal. (it was a retake too!)

Taking MCAT is taking a risk. Retake or not. Choosing to not retake a moderate MCAT is also taking a risk. It's all about minimizing the risk.

 

[Banco]

Retake if you really want top-tier schools.

But your current application is great for most MD schools.

 

[LizzyM]

What's also sad is that the MCAT score only represents one day in your life.

So is the STEP 1 exam. One day of your life and, unless you flunk, you can't retake hoping for a better score.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

LizzyM, what is your impression of an applicant with good but not outstanding EC's and LoR, a low GPA (3.5-3.6) and a high MCAT (38-42)?

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, what is your impression of an applicant with good but not outstanding EC's and LoR, a low GPA (3.5-3.6) and a high MCAT (38-42)?

Why the low GPA? I'd look at the school, the major, the courses taken and the trends. Did gen ed requirements in philosophy, theology, etc or engineering sink an otherwise well performing applicant? How did the applicant do in the pre-reqs? How long ago did the applicant attend college? Is this a non-trad who has come back and taken pre-reqs later? This is what goes into taking a holistic approach to the application.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Why the low GPA? I'd look at the school, the major, the courses taken and the trends. Did gen ed requirements in philosophy, theology, etc or engineering sink an otherwise well performing applicant? How did the applicant do in the pre-reqs? How long ago did the applicant attend college? Is this a non-trad who has come back and taken pre-reqs later? This is what goes into taking a holistic approach to the application.

My GPA basically slowly sunk from 3.8 in my first year to 3.6 sophomore year, 3.5 Junior Year and it would have been 3.5 Senior Year if not for my C in organic chemistry. I am really worried because I'm aware that a downward trend is very concerning to adcoms. However, I'm not aiming for high or even mid tier schools.

I was immature and did not treat school as seriously as I should have. Having now worked as a CRC for over a year interacting with patients daily, I feel like I am much more ready to take on responsibility and work hard. By the time I will apply next year, I will have worked for two full years.

Do you think adcoms from less selective schools than the one you work for would be willing to admit someone like me? or is my GPA trend too lethal? Should I apply to DO schools/

 

[Goro]

Look at the acceptance rates for med schools and you'll see that ALL of them are selective. G-town is statistically harder to get into than Harvard.

My GPA basically slowly sunk from 3.8 in my first year to 3.6 sophomore year, 3.5 Junior Year and it would have been 3.5 Senior Year if not for my C in organic chemistry. I am really worried because I'm aware that a downward trend is very concerning to adcoms. However, I'm not aiming for high or even mid tier schools.

I was immature and did not treat school as seriously as I should have. Having now worked as a CRC for over a year interacting with patients daily, I feel like I am much more ready to take on responsibility and work hard. By the time I will apply next year, I will have worked for two full years.

Do you think adcoms from less selective schools than the one you work for would be willing to admit someone like me? or is my GPA trend too lethal? Should I apply to DO schools/

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Look at the acceptance rates for med schools and you'll see that ALL of them are selective. G-town is statistically harder to get into than Harvard.

I think the applicant pool for Georgetown is different than Harvard's which accounts for the difference in acceptance rates. But you're right. All of them are ridiculously selective which makes me ridiculously worried. 🙁

 

[LizzyM]

My GPA basically slowly sunk from 3.8 in my first year to 3.6 sophomore year, 3.5 Junior Year and it would have been 3.5 Senior Year if not for my C in organic chemistry. I am really worried because I'm aware that a downward trend is very concerning to adcoms. However, I'm not aiming for high or even mid tier schools.

I was immature and did not treat school as seriously as I should have. Having now worked as a CRC for over a year interacting with patients daily, I feel like I am much more ready to take on responsibility and work hard. By the time I will apply next year, I will have worked for two full years.

Do you think adcoms from less selective schools than the one you work for would be willing to admit someone like me? or is my GPA trend too lethal? Should I apply to DO schools/

Do you have at least a 38 on the MCAT? If so, you might get some nibbles. The C in organic is not great. The whole "I was immature" thing is not a good excuse... you were less mature as a senior than as a freshman??

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Do you have at least a 38 on the MCAT? If so, you might get some nibbles. The C in organic is not great. The whole "I was immature" thing is not a good excuse... you were less mature as a senior than as a freshman??

Do I need to provide admissions with an excuse? I was immature and that's the cause of my poor grades. I make no excuses for it. During my freshman year, I went to class regularly. By the time it got to senior year, I was skipping about 1/2 of my classes. I'm amazed I even made it with the grades that I did. I was just as immature freshman year, but I was less distracted by other things like games and being in a relationship. I applied through my university's early assurance program and was rejected after being interviewed. I honestly think I've grown a lot since then. I wasn't ready for medical school, I wasn't aware of the commitment it would take and I wasn't ready to work hard to succeed. I am ready now. I just need a school to recognize that.

I get my MCAT scores back in just 4 days, but my average was around a 38 so I hope that's the score I'll be getting. If it's something in the 35-37 range, would I not have much hope for allopathic?

 

[LizzyM]

Do I need to provide admissions with an excuse? I was immature and that's the cause of my poor grades. I make no excuses for it. During my freshman year, I went to class regularly. By the time it got to senior year, I was skipping about 1/2 of my classes. I'm amazed I even made it with the grades that I did. I was just as immature freshman year, but I was less distracted by other things like games and being in a relationship. I applied through my university's early assurance program and was rejected after being interviewed. I honestly think I've grown a lot since then. I wasn't ready for medical school, I wasn't aware of the commitment it would take and I wasn't ready to work hard to succeed. I am ready now. I just need a school to recognize that.

I get my MCAT scores back in just 4 days, but my average was around a 38 so I hope that's the score I'll be getting. If it's something in the 35-37 range, would I not have much hope for allopathic?

Rather than hijack this thread, you'd be better off posting in "what are my chances" after you have your MCAT score.

You don't need to make excuses but that's what you were doing. I don't know how you can show a med school that you will not do the things you did as a college senior such as cutting classes and playing games. The majority of applicants in a given cycle are not admitted. You have to be better than 60% of the applicant pool. It is tough.