Am I crazy?

[aspiringerdoc]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

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[Terpskins99]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

My personal philosophy is, you only live life once. If you think you can do it and this is something you want more than anything else... go for it.

Wow... 11 kids (lol, was that a typo?), I can't imagine how difficult it would be to raise that large a family while juggling medical school. But you seem to be doing pretty well so far. I think the biggest step is to see what happens on the MCATs, just to gauge your overall pre-med status/standings.

In my class, we have quite a few students with children (including a single mother taking care of a child with a severely debilitating genetic disorder). It can totally be done.

 

[cubbbie]

Just out of curiosity - - what is prompting this move? What's the backstory here?

Also - - will money be a factor for you? Have you considered how things will work in that regard during your time in med school?

 

[IceMan0824]

I don't think you're crazy, but I do hope that you've putting much weight into this decision.

For starters, how are your '11' kids going to respond to you going back to school. If you're 36, I don't imagine those children being 100% independent of you.

Being a doctor is a long road, with a lot of consequence. As cubbie said, what is the backstory...because everyone will want to know. So I would have one(if you don't), and practice repeating it every signal time.

You seemed determined enough.

Man, I wished I had a 4.0. I had 4.0 but proceeded to lose that after 2nd semester. Oh MS-0....but I ramble now.

 

[OncoCaP]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

I'm in my late 30s and have several kids as well and I'm starting med school this fall. Obviously I haven't stated yet, but I have gathered some information and made a plan. I can inform you based on my plans.

You are taking on a challenge. You probably will not be able to work (earn money) very much when you are in medical school, so I hope that either you have enough cash saved up to make it through to residency (which also might not pay enough) or your wife is ready for full-time employment on a weekend or night shift to support the family while you sleep at home at the house with the kids. In third year you would be working long odd hours yourself, so it might become impossible for your wife to work because you really can't hire someone to watch 11 kids and your parents and in-laws would not be able to take over either.

I'm not sure when your wife would sleep exactly. Maybe you homeschool and the older kids (e.g., mature teenagers) can watch the younger ones in the afternoon while your wife sleeps (how old are the older ones; will they be teenagers when you would start?).

I'm not sure that you could borrow enough money for neither parent to be working. Also, you need to be prepared not to be able to earn money while you are in medical school. The last thing you want to do is make it there and then fail out because you cannot devote enough time to your studying.

Likening lower division undergraduate courses to medical school is not appropriate. Medical school will take much more time than your lower division classes. It's not the difficulty. It's the volume of material and the pace and level of detail at which you need to memorize it; medical school will be a demanding fulltime job with overtime by itself.

Why are you asking this question? Are you just unsure that this can be done or are you going to do this and you would like some advice?

Feel free to PM me as well.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Just out of curiosity.....do you sell preneed?

 

[8744]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

You'll be, what, 40 when you matriculate? 44 when you graduate. 47 when you finish residency for Emergency Medicine?

It's not ridiculous at all but it ain't worth it either. If you devote the next ten years to your current business, expending the same effort and focus you would on applying, attending, and doing a residency you'll probably be very successful and not pulling q4 call.

 

[efex101]

Think hard and long about this...with 11 children this task will be much harder for you *unless* you have accumulated a large amount of money that you and your family can live off for the next 7 or more years while you pursue medical school and residency. Your wife needs to be 200% aware of what medical school and residency will entail. It is easy for us (the ones going) to be aware but often times our SO do not have a clear picture of what awaits them. Medical school is more time consuming than I originally thought...sure we all go in knowing it will be difficult with lots of studying, but in reality is it so much more. Once you get home it is like your day is starting and that is when the heavy duty studying begins....

 

[aspiringerdoc]

Just out of curiosity.....do you sell preneed?

I do sell pre-need. I make a very good living doing so. What do you know about the pre-need funeral business?

 

[aspiringerdoc]

Just out of curiosity - - what is prompting this move? What's the backstory here?

Also - - will money be a factor for you? Have you considered how things will work in that regard during your time in med school?

The backstory. I meet with people all of the time that are "dying". I always find that I'm trying to figure out remedies that will help people in their physical struggles, and come to the realization that my job is to sell the funeral ~ and wait for that dreaded day. These thoughts were compounded by my mothers terminal illness. In Jan of 2005, we learned that she had lung cancer and in March of 2005, we buried her.

During a pre-need appointment about a year ago, I was meeting with a Thomas G. Klever. I called him Mr. Klever and he immediately corrected me, insisting I call him Dr. Klever. I spent a few hours with him at that time and then visited their home on another occassion. During that time, I shared some of my thoughts with him and my desire to become a physician. He was a real encouragement and several times during this last year, just prior to his recent death, he would call on me to see how I was progressing. It wasn't until after his death that I learned that he had been the Chief of Staff at a local hospital ~ and at one time directed that hospitals residency programs. After knowing that his words became even more encouraging to me. He said "The medical community would gain a great asset if you become a doctor".

I ask this question, because my wife and I ARE counting the cost. While I'm counting, I'm running forward. So far, the doors of opportunity for the education are staying open. We home school. My wife is a stay at home mom and we know this will mean a lot of sacrifice.

As for money. I'll be perfectly honest. We don't have much saved. Because of the size of my family, financial aid is covering all of my undergrad work ~ at least so far. I have spoken with the staff of the financial aid office our local teaching hospital and have learned that more than likely, my med school would be covered by financial aid as well. As for the family, our needs are not as great as the normal family, as we don't have the school tuitions and all the fancy school cloths and we only feed our kids once a week - (JUST JOKING! ). I do sell pre-need funerals, by appointment. If a family is in the right age group, I can make a couple thousand dollars in a couple of hours. A typical work week for me is 20 hours or less (including phone calls and appointments). I know (from what I've heard) that Med school is demanding, but I also know that if I missed part of a lecture once a week or so to do a funeral appointment, that I could catch it digitally later that day, OR so I've heard. I really do appreciate the things I'm reading on here. It makes for good thought.

Thanks
Mike

 

[8744]

The backstory. I meet with people all of the time that are "dying". I always find that I'm trying to figure out remedies that will help people in their physical struggles, and come to the realization that my job is to sell the funeral ~ and wait for that dreaded day. These thoughts were compounded by my mothers terminal illness. In Jan of 2005, we learned that she had lung cancer and in March of 2005, we buried her.

During a pre-need appointment about a year ago, I was meeting with a Thomas G. Klever. I called him Mr. Klever and he immediately corrected me, insisting I call him Dr. Klever. I spent a few hours with him at that time and then visited their home on another occassion. During that time, I shared some of my thoughts with him and my desire to become a physician. He was a real encouragement and several times during this last year, just prior to his recent death, he would call on me to see how I was progressing. It wasn't until after his death that I learned that he had been the Chief of Staff at a local hospital ~ and at one time directed that hospitals residency programs. After knowing that his words became even more encouraging to me. He said "The medical community would gain a great asset if you become a doctor".

I ask this question, because my wife and I ARE counting the cost. While I'm counting, I'm running forward. So far, the doors of opportunity for the education are staying open. We home school. My wife is a stay at home mom and we know this will mean a lot of sacrifice.

As for money. I'll be perfectly honest. We don't have much saved. Because of the size of my family, financial aid is covering all of my undergrad work ~ at least so far. I have spoken with the staff of the financial aid office our local teaching hospital and have learned that more than likely, my med school would be covered by financial aid as well. As for the family, our needs are not as great as the normal family, as we don't have the school tuitions and all the fancy school cloths and we only feed our kids once a week - (JUST JOKING! ). I do sell pre-need funerals, by appointment. If a family is in the right age group, I can make a couple thousand dollars in a couple of hours. A typical work week for me is 20 hours or less (including phone calls and appointments). I know (from what I've heard) that Med school is demanding, but I also know that if I missed part of a lecture once a week or so to do a funeral appointment, that I could catch it digitally later that day, OR so I've heard. I really do appreciate the things I'm reading on here. It makes for good thought.

Thanks
Mike

I'm not challenging your motives or impuning you in any way but I must repeat, it will so not be worth it. Looking back, if I knew what I know now I would have laughed and forgotten about trying to get into medical school.

 

[peppy]

First of all, I'll say this: If you really, *really* want to do this, I'm sure you can find a way to make it work.
However, with that being said...if I were you, I probably wouldn't want to start long, stressful ordeal of med school at this point, with 11 kids to take care of. Your kids will be the most enduring legacy of your life, so you need to make sure they come first. I don't even have any kids, but there are times when I'm just totally wiped out after a day of exams or working with a doc, and I can't really imagine myself being able to find quality time for 11 kids after days like that.
Instead, you may want to identify what exactly it is that appeals to you about being a doc and look at how you can find that satisfaction in a career that isn't quite such a lengthy ordeal to get into.
Have you considered going for a nursing degree and becoming a hospice nurse? It sounds like that would be a natural fit for you, since you're comfortable talking to people who are dying and find it rewarding to try to comfort them. I'm sure you could make a huge positive impact on many patients in that sort of work, and it's the kind of work that not just anyone is strong enough to do.
Have you had any experience working in ERs? You definitely should try to get some time "shadowing" an ER doc to see what it's really like before committing to med school. By the nature of ER work, the patient contact is rarely as deep or meaningful as what you've experienced in your current job (especially since ER docs deal with many patients who don't really belong in the ER in the first place). In fact, you might be troubled by how often docs have to put aside emotionally "being there" for their patients because there just isn't enough time to be all things to all people on the wards. So, make sure you have been exposed to the hospital environment enough to be sure it's what you want. You definitely don't want to go through all the trouble of getting through med school only to realize it isn't as satisfying as you'd expected.

 

[lilnoelle]

11 kids! Yes, I think your crazy. (partially kidding) I have two and can not even begin to comprehend the chaos of 3, much less more than three.
How spread out are the ages of your kids?
I would say it is possible for an individual to work ~10 hours a week while in med school if they give up any personal time... but 11 kids! That alone will take up all of what an unencombered med student would consider as personal time.
It is possible to me a parent and a med student, but as a parent of two young ones, I can't imagine having more than that and being in school. Now maybe it will be easier for you to do it than me (a mom who hasn't quite gotten her husband to take over the domestic side of the relationship...) but I still can't imagine doing what your trying to do. (heck, I can't even imagine having more than 3 kids)
So I know that I keep going back to your 11 kids.... don't take that offensively. Kudos to you and your wife on being great (and fertile) parents. Thats fantastic. You are doing something that I can't fathom. And for that reason, I can't fathom how in the world you'd manage med school plus parental responsibilities and a part time job.

 

[Law2Doc]

but I must repeat, it will so not be worth it.

Worth can be measured in many ways other than financial, so it's hard to say "not worth it" without understanding a person's motivations.

That being said, in the OP's prior post he seems to suggest an expectation to keep working 20ish hours a week while in med school. While a small handful are able to do some parttime work during the first two years of med school, this is actually the extreme minority, and most of these don't have family demands. Most of your classmates will be treating med school like a full time job plus weekend work, and it's awfully hard to keep up with folks who are studying 20 hours a week more than you. Those who study from home digitally aren't "making up things", they are using the time in a way they deem more efficient, but probably spending a similar amount of time in many situations. You never want to fall behind in med school because the new material comes at you so fast you don't really have time to go back and learn the old.

I think you need to talk to some recently minted physicians and get a better sense of the time committment you are going to be making in med school, residency, and thereafter. I'm worried from your last post that you have an unrealistic view of what kind of time you are going to need to commit to this endeavor (ie most of it).

 

[8744]

First of all, I'll say this: If you really, *really* want to do this, I'm sure you can find a way to make it work.
However, with that being said...if I were you, I probably wouldn't want to start long, stressful ordeal of med school at this point, with 11 kids to take care of. Your kids will be the most enduring legacy of your life, so you need to make sure they come first. I don't even have any kids, but there are times when I'm just totally wiped out after a day of exams or working with a doc, and I can't really imagine myself being able to find quality time for 11 kids after days like that.
Instead, you may want to identify what exactly it is that appeals to you about being a doc and look at how you can find that satisfaction in a career that isn't quite such a lengthy ordeal to get into.
Have you considered going for a nursing degree and becoming a hospice nurse? It sounds like that would be a natural fit for you, since you're comfortable talking to people who are dying and find it rewarding to try to comfort them. I'm sure you could make a huge positive impact on many patients in that sort of work, and it's the kind of work that not just anyone is strong enough to do.
Have you had any experience working in ERs? You definitely should try to get some time "shadowing" an ER doc to see what it's really like before committing to med school. By the nature of ER work, the patient contact is rarely as deep or meaningful as what you've experienced in your current job (especially since ER docs deal with many patients who don't really belong in the ER in the first place), so you definitely don't want to go through all the trouble of
getting there only to realize it isn't as satisfying as you'd expected.

This is not the case. Emergency Physicians spend more time with their patients during one ecounter then just about any other doctor. This is because most patients are in holding pattern for most of their stay in the department and while it is important to multi-task, you can and should check up on them often.

I don't know what you mean by "deep" or "meaningful." We do see a lot of serious conditions and talking to a family of somebody who may or may not pull through cannot possibly be more deep or meaningful.

But I agree that the OP needs to spend some time in an ED. I like Emergnecy Medicine a lot for many reasons but a lot of people hate it for exactly the same reasons.

 

[efex101]

I think you need to really really really think realistically about this endeavor. I get the "feeling" that you do not truly understand the time commitment that is necessary. Medical school is very time demanding and although some school do have lectures online that you can later get to, most students that "skip" lectures are doing so to study at home. So yes, you can potentially spend the first two years studying from home (for the most part...some classes will require you to physically be there) the latter two years will require you to be physically present for the most part. Some rotations you will clock more than 80 hr/weeks (surgery comes to mind for one) and for most expect to be in the hospital for at least 60 hrs/week. Then, after working in the hospital setting you will be expected to go home and read/study so you can then pass the "shelf" exams given at the end of each rotation. Residency will be MUCH more time consuming and many of them will require 80 hrs/week....so again I think that you need to objectively think about this and talk to RECENT graduates with FAMILIES. The needs of a student with children is much much different than those of a student that just has him/her to worry about.

 

[Lindyhopper]

Just my opinion. Stay around to raise your kids.

 

[PathOne]

Apart from issues referred to by others, there's also the issue of geography to contemplate. IF you decide to apply for med school, you would need to apply to a fairly large number of schools, especially as a non-trad. And in the end, you might be offered a spot far, far away from where you currently live. Will you and your family be willing to relocate?
Additionally, you're likely to run into admissions committees who'll doubt your ability to handle med school with such a large family.
Finally, after graduating from med school, you and your family might have to relocate again for residency. Again, will that be worth it?

Frankly, at your age and in your situation it will be a daunting challenge at best. Perhaps nursing, as proposed by other poster, is a better option. Remember, that the cost, both financially and personally, of going down the road to physician is daunting for everyone, and will probably be even more so in your situation.

 

[aspiringerdoc]

I'm not challenging your motives or impuning you in any way but I must repeat, it will so not be worth it. Looking back, if I knew what I know now I would have laughed and forgotten about trying to get into medical school.

Did you get in?

 

[DrMidlife]

There was a thread here recently about a guy who'd recently impregnated his girlfriend and was about to run off to a Caribbean med school, shooting for the stars and following his dreams and setting a great example for his kid. He got crucified, largely by mothers, for abandoning his responsibility. Other people said sure, fine, go for it.

I'm very tempted to launch the crucifixion on this thread. Eleven children. Are any of them adopted? Adopted kids come pre-loaded with abandonment/rejection complexes that can easily be turned into pathology. You don't have savings? Your wife doesn't have any help? You're absolutely sure that she's living her dream and won't leave you? You're 36 to boot? I assume you'll be honest with adcoms that you have a huge family? This scares me speechless.

OK, but on the other hand, and hopefully you're stopping at eleven, maybe you've got an institution going there, in the nice sense of the word. If you and your wife have set things up so that the kids know they're loved and cared for and important, and the whole family is unanimously positive about getting you through med school, and the oldest ones will have enough resources to start college ~10 years before you're making any money, and your family, church (?) and community are behind you and will bring over casseroles and babysit and fix your car, and you and your wife have fairly infinite energy, and everybody's healthy and nobody has a nervous breakdown or gets a chronic disease or behavior disorder, and you can live with the idea of being on welfare, well, who the hell am I to vote on this? I don't have kids.

A while back I read a memoir by an ortho with 12 kids who finished residency maybe 20 years ago. His first was born after med school, which he started at the traditional age of 21. During residency he moonlighted in an ER to make ends meet, which I doubt can be done now. The book rubbed me completely raw, and I felt so incredibly bad for the wife and the kids, and the whole scenario seemed selfish and arrogant and incredible and a terrible example. But apparently everybody survived unscathed. So I don't know.

I personally do a lot better in general when I have an impossible passion. I get fixated like a pit bull on meth, and I demand miracles from the universe and more often than not they appear. I really get away with murder, and I have wonderful stories and an interesting life. This is a young person's game, though. The older I get (40 now) the less I can joust with windmills, and I finally learned to stop taking hostages. But if I had a huge family to support, yeah, I'd need an impossible passion to keep me moving forward.

You asked "am I crazy?" and the answer was yes, by about your 5th child. Med school over 35 is crazy, even without a family. Crazy is inherent here. I think a more interesting question is "can I keep this up for the next 10 years through good and bad?"

For goodness sake you must keep us posted, whatever happens. Best of luck to you.

 

[montessori2md]

I'd do my homework on the whole med school experience and decide if it sounds like fun to you.

If Emergency medicine sounds fun, but med school/residency doesn't sound like fun, why not do a "midlevel" education -physician assistants are awesome in the ER. Sure, they're not MDs, but if it's the pt interaction you're after, you'll get it. And since your current job is 20 hrs/wk, you'd have plenty of time to meet a PA program's clinical experience requirements without it hitting you financially.

For me, I like the idea of 7-10 years of education/torture ritual that is medicine, but it's not for everybody : )

Most of the adults (ie not college students and younger!) I know live at work, they've taught me a lot of coping mechanisms. I'm not sure I could swing a change from 20hrs/wk to 120, though. You might practice that a bit and see how it goes.

 

[efex101]

Panda Bear is a resident in emergency medicine so he speaks from experience. Good luck to you whatever you decide!

 

[montessori2md]

Oh yeah, and read Panda Bear's blog, it's only a matter of time before it becomes required SDN reading, and listen to the bear, he knows his stuff, unlike us MS-0 types with our guesses!

 

[aspiringerdoc]

Thank you all so much for your input. I am seriously taking it to heart. I AM considering other options. I just don't know that I'm willing to give up this pursuit just yet. Please people, keep posting your thoughts if you haven't yet.

Mike

 

[Noeljan]

The backstory. I meet with people all of the time that are "dying". I always find that I'm trying to figure out remedies that will help people in their physical struggles, and come to the realization that my job is to sell the funeral ~ and wait for that dreaded day. These thoughts were compounded by my mothers terminal illness. In Jan of 2005, we learned that she had lung cancer and in March of 2005, we buried her.

During a pre-need appointment about a year ago, I was meeting with a Thomas G. Klever. I called him Mr. Klever and he immediately corrected me, insisting I call him Dr. Klever. I spent a few hours with him at that time and then visited their home on another occassion. During that time, I shared some of my thoughts with him and my desire to become a physician. He was a real encouragement and several times during this last year, just prior to his recent death, he would call on me to see how I was progressing. It wasn't until after his death that I learned that he had been the Chief of Staff at a local hospital ~ and at one time directed that hospitals residency programs. After knowing that his words became even more encouraging to me. He said "The medical community would gain a great asset if you become a doctor".

I ask this question, because my wife and I ARE counting the cost. While I'm counting, I'm running forward. So far, the doors of opportunity for the education are staying open. We home school. My wife is a stay at home mom and we know this will mean a lot of sacrifice.

As for money. I'll be perfectly honest. We don't have much saved. Because of the size of my family, financial aid is covering all of my undergrad work ~ at least so far. I have spoken with the staff of the financial aid office our local teaching hospital and have learned that more than likely, my med school would be covered by financial aid as well. As for the family, our needs are not as great as the normal family, as we don't have the school tuitions and all the fancy school cloths and we only feed our kids once a week - (JUST JOKING! ). I do sell pre-need funerals, by appointment. If a family is in the right age group, I can make a couple thousand dollars in a couple of hours. A typical work week for me is 20 hours or less (including phone calls and appointments). I know (from what I've heard) that Med school is demanding, but I also know that if I missed part of a lecture once a week or so to do a funeral appointment, that I could catch it digitally later that day, OR so I've heard. I really do appreciate the things I'm reading on here. It makes for good thought.

Thanks
Mike

Hey there
I wish you luck in all you do, BUT I just don't think you are being as realistic as you could be. Being a good doctor should of course encompass dealing well with people and compassion, but studying and science and very very hard work also seem to be just as important (note I am just giving my opinion bc I may not have it down 100% bc I wont start med school until this August, but it is what I have gathered and seen)
I am going through ideas of workload in my mind right now. I realize how much I will need to sacrifice to get the residency I want. I have been thinking, well one day I want one or two children, maybe have to wait until this year or that year to have kids(and 1 or 2 seems like a ton of work and juggling) but 11 seems soooo much work and sacrifice.
Also, most people I have heard listen to lectures a few times or in addition to going to class to cover things they may have missed. It doesnt seem to be a leisurely as you have in your mind. Also, the people I do know with children either have some money saved OR the other parent works to bring in something (at least part time). I barely have enough to eat on student loans for myself sometimes, I couldnt imagine 13 people being dependent on that one little income.
Anyways I do wish you luck and I am not judging you, I just get the feeling from reading this that you don't realize how big a committment this is going to be (and should be). Maybe if you and your wife worked for a while more and saved up some cash (maybe took shift turns) had some child care lined up, etc. it may be more feasible. good luck, let us know how it turns out.

 

[8744]

Thank you all so much for your input. I am seriously taking it to heart. I AM considering other options. I just don't know that I'm willing to give up this pursuit just yet. Please people, keep posting your thoughts if you haven't yet.

Mike

Hey, I don't think anybody here is busting down on you or thinks poorly of you either. It's just that while I think you would like first and second year, third year and beyond would be miserable.

 

[OncoCaP]

Intro
====
From a practical standpoint, you would be very unwise to go to medical school. It's only if you have some higher calling that assures you that (figuratively with respect to the challenges) you will be able go over Niagara Falls on a home-built raft build from scrap lumber with your entire family on board and everyone will be able to survive and live happily ever after and write books about the experience, I suppose.

Returning to the practical perspective, here is my understanding as to why it would be totally unwise for you to go for medical school in your situation:

Summary
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11 kids + Stay-at-home-wife = You need a real job now until at least 20 years from now. Going to med school is not a real job and you won't be able to borrow enough money to support a family of 13 no matter how frugal you are. Most of the "financial aid" in medical school is in the form of loans, which are really not designed to support a huge family. I hear that some of the loans you need to start repaying even before you are done. Working 20 hours seems out of the question.

Discussion
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When you had the 11 kids and made the commitment for your wife to stay at home, there probably was the understanding that you would provide financially and otherwise for them. Realistically, you wouldn't be able to do that and go through your medical training. Another thing to consider is that the stress and abuse changes you (mostly dished out by ex-Marine residents like Panda Bear who get kicked around by their chief resident, attendings or whoever -- just kidding, Panda is the nicest one, I'm sure). At certain times, the extreme stress will make you .. uhh ... "difficult" to be around (moody, easily angered, impatient). Perhaps you'll need your family more even more than they need you at times like that. Financially, going to medical school would like quitting your job and joining the circus as an unpaid trapeze trainee (actually you owe the circus $15K to $40K /yr) and signing a 7 year contract. Going to medical school would, practically speaking, would make your wife a single mom with one extra onery big kid starting about the 3rd year of your training onward.

Conclusion
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So, anyway, those are a few thoughts on why you would be crazy to go to medical school from a practical standpoint. However, if you have a supernatural calling, to join the circus or go to medical school or go into the mission field, or whatever, then it will work out supernaturally, of course, and you would be crazy not to do it.

About the commentator
==================
I'm in a slightly similar situation in that I'm old and have several kids (5). However, unlike you, I have cash saved up and a wife who can and likes to work outside the home and makes great money, has great benefits, and has few and good hours. Financially, I don't need to work. Theoretically, I could go fishing for the rest of my life. On the flip side, I could study 24 hours per day, hang with the residents at a clinic, if needed. My children can and do help my wife with things like prepare simple meals, fold clothes, etc., to help out with the household. On the road to medicine that I'm on, I very much would like to contribute more than being a drone in the beehive, but I'm prepared for times when I won't even be able to be a drone. By the way, I do feel I have a calling to go into medicine, otherwise I would never do it.

 

[Lindyhopper]

If you don't go to med school, your seat will be taken by a younger person who is less encumbered with family responsibilities. They may or may not end up making more contributions to the profession.
If you do go to medical school, what is pretty certain is that your 11 kids will grow up seldom seeing their father. When they do see their father, he will be tried & hoping to get some sleep.
It may seem like a noble idea, but, yes it is crazy.

 

[ShyRem]

I'm an MSI, 39 years old with two kids and a saint of a husband. My husband still works (graveyard shift), and my FA takes care of half our expenses and all my school expenses. The FA was really great to take care of some large initial expenses after moving 2000 miles for med school (like a chest freezer, stuff to put in the freezer, etc).

BUT. I put my family pretty high up on my priority list. As a result, I get 4-5 hours of sleep a night. I get home after school and help my kids with homework, chores, cook dinner, get my husband up for work... so I don't start studying until 10pm or so. This means I don't get more than 3 hours of studying a night (and boy, do I make the most of that). There is stuff you can do while you're spending time with the family -- get your laptop and look at histo slides while everyone is having pizza and a movie. Put Netter's on your PDA and study while you're driving to the store, in the bathroom, whenever you get a spare moment.

It's tough with two kids. With 11? I think just raising 11 is a triple-full-time job all on it's own. Will FA be enough? I think your grocery budget would exceed your FA without any other expenses figured in. Living expenses? Most med schools aren't known for being in cheap rent districts for large spaces (one bedroom, yes, but 6? Not really). I think a good starting place would be a financial advisor to get a plan. Call med schools' FA offices and set up appointments for a reasonable expectation of what you can expect from there. Look at realtor.com or similar site if you're thinking you may need to relocate. I think you have some extreme circumstances that we aren't very well equipped to help you out with. We all have opinions, but going through this demanding process with 11 kids is... well... unusual.

As for your initial question. Are you crazy? YES. But then so are all of us going to med school. Let's face it, it's not a reasonable journey by itself; add some extreme circumstances and you're not only crazy, but certifiably insane. Break out the straight-jacket and bring on the valium (or haldol if valium isn't enough) and ritalin.

If you can pull it off, more power to you. I don't think I'd have the fortitude. Then again, I don't think I could handle 11 kids. Two is MORE than enough for me.

 

[riceman04]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

Just curious: Are you Catholic?

 

[1Path]

IF you decide to apply for med school, you would need to apply to a fairly large number of schools, especially as a non-trad..

This is simply NOT true. For most people trad and nontrad, the decision on how many schools to apply to usually depends on your credentials. However, I was accepted to the ONLY school I applied to many years ago witha VERY weak undergrad GPA, so there goes that theory.

When I reapply, I'm applying ONLY to the schools in the area where I currently live. That's it and doing so doesn't in ANY way dilute my desire to become a physician. I've simply decided that it's important to me to balance family considerations with professional ones and luckily for me, I won't have to choose.

To the OP, if I were in this situation, I'd a least wait until the last child entered elementary school before starting med school. Doing so at the point seems entirely possible to me with a good support system in place.

 

[Law2Doc]

with a good support system in place.

Well, the problem with the OP's posts is it doesn't seem like he has such. He has a stay at home wife, needs to work 20 hours a week, and is relying on fin aid for the remainder. I think OP is making a few assumptions about med school and the time and effort involved, that are pretty unrealistic.
OP really needs to sit down with a recent med student or admissions people and get a more realistic sense of the time committment, and then probably needs to take a more realistic view of the numbers in terms of whether he can afford to do this without the expectation of working. Those people that do manage to work during med school tend not to have 20 hour a week jobs, and tend not to have such significant family obligations that also require some of your time.

 

[EEL08]

What Bible College did you go to? Also, maybe I'm just being naive but I feel like this is your one life to live and you don't want to get to the end and regret all the things you should have done but didn't. I do however agree that you should think long and hard about going into medicine before you decide. If you feel like it's absolutely something you want to do and you would regret it if you didn't then I would encourage you to pursue your dreams.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Just curious: Are you Catholic?

He went to a bible college, so I'd guess no. Catholics don't do things like that. Catholics also generally don't have as huge of families as members of other religious groups these days. In my hometown, all the huge families were LDS, not catholic.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you feel like it's absolutely something you want to do and you would regret it if you didn't then I would encourage you to pursue your dreams.

While I like this notion conceptually, not everyone has freedom to pull up stakes and pursue dreams. If you are supporting a wife and 11 kids, you don't get to pull the trigger on such an expensive venture just because it's "absolutely someting you want to do". There are other people you have to factor into the equation. To do otherwise would be horribly irresponsible.
I'm not saying the OP cannot figure out a way to become a doctor, but I am saying that the analysis suggested by you (EEL08) only makes sense for folks with fewer obligations.

 

[Beau Geste]

yeah, this is a tough one to give encouragement to.... I would say the OP might wait until his kids are a little older. The oldest has to be 11 at least, so in 5-10 years maybe he won't be supporting as many of them.

 

[Law2Doc]

The oldest has to be 11 at least,

You are assuming no multiple births, or the same mother, I guess.

 

[EEL08]

Law2Doc I guess I kind of just assumed it to be a given that he would take his family into full consideration. I would not recommend to do it because you want to completely ignoring the needs and desires of your family. Having two kids I just automatically take my family into consideration in everything I do that's why I didn't mention it specifically.

 

[lilnoelle]

You are assuming no multiple births, or the same mother, I guess.

It seems like there would be some adoptions in there too (just guessing). If there are, the ages could be in any range.

 

[Funky]

medical training is very time consuming and like everyone said, it'll be a real strain on your family. Internship and residency will probably keep you away from your family and you probably won't be able to spend as much time with your children as much as you'd want to.

 

[EEL08]

megboo are you at SIU now?

 

[DoctorMom78]

I am a 36 year old father to 11 children. I have a full time sales job at a funeral home (I work by appointment and schedule my own). Obviously, that alone keeps me very busy. In June of this past year, I began the treacherous journey of Pre-Med. I hadn't been to school since 1988, and that was a Bible college with no REAL courses that related to Pre-Med. I had to start at the beginning with some develpmental math classes and now a intro chemistry class. All summer, I maintained 4.0 with 14 credit hours and this past fall I also maintained a 4.0 with 14 credit hours. This semester is composed of Biology I / Intro Chem / English Comp II / College Algebra. I hope to be able to continue the 4.0 trend. I'm getting kind of wordy. Sorry.

Question is to those of you that have "been there, done that". Is Med School a totally rediculous venture with all that is on my plate? I have a wonderful wife that is a stay at home mom and is extremely committed to my success. Just want to know your honest thoughts. I'll not be offended at anything you say. I just question myself from time to time.

I really want to be an ER doc, but that's not set in stone (as if anything ever is). Anxious to hear your thoughts.

Mike

Well, I think you are crazy for having 11 kids......but med school, nope, no at all. (Just teasing you!) Anyway, I have four children of my own and I am usually very supportive of following your dreams. However, if you are the only income for your family, then I don't really see how that would be possible. I know how expensive four children are. I have not started medical school yet, but from the stories I have heard, it is really time consuming. There is little time left over to work or do much else. I don't know how you could possibly find a way to support your family and go to school. However, if you are able to figure that out, then I do not think it is impossible. I don't think that your age or 11 children would stop you as long as you can financially do it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[calliMD]

I'm going to be blunt and say that pursuing a medical degree now at 36 with a wife and 11 children to support would be extremely selfish of you. You may feel a "calling" to be a physician and it might be something that you continuously think about -- ignore it, because in my opinion, that's not a good enough reason to put your wife and children through the terrible ordeal of growing up financially struggling and without a father ever being around. Do the right thing and put your family's needs ahead of your own.

 

[Beau Geste]

megboo are you at SIU now?

No. I got my M.S. in 2000. I'm transplanted in Northern Illinois, but love Saluki athletics.

 

[EEL08]

I was just wondering because I grew up in Carbondale although I never went to SIU. I live in Texas now and it's okay but I love Illinois.

 

[Beau Geste]

It seems like there would be some adoptions in there too (just guessing). If there are, the ages could be in any range.

Multiple births and adoption are possible, I just was reading the part in one of his posts about school tuition for his kids. That tells me that more than one is in primary/middle school (maybe high school, but that would probably be a support system mentioned).

Why does EVERYTHING on SDN have to be dissected?

 

[Beau Geste]

I was just wondering because I grew up in Carbondale although I never went to SIU. I live in Texas now and it's okay but I love Illinois.

i grew up in Chester

 

[Funky]

Multiple births and adoption are possible, I just was reading the part in one of his posts about school tuition for his kids. That tells me that more than one is in primary/middle school (maybe high school, but that would probably be a support system mentioned).

Why does EVERYTHING on SDN have to be dissected?

if there weren't any multiple births, then the wife must have been in labor for a whole decade! wow

actually in college i met a family with 11 or 12 kids ranging from 5 to 22 years old

 

[EEL08]

No way! My grandma lives in Chester. She has lived there all her life and loves it. My mom went to school there and my cousin did as well. I remember many a weekend driving from Cdale to Chester to see my grandma and go to her church. We also went to the river when I was a kid and collected driftwood. Yeah I know we were hip and cool. My grandma still works at the courthouse. What a small world!

 

[Beau Geste]

if there weren't any multiple births, then the wife must have been in labor for a whole decade! wow

actually in college i met a family with 11 or 12 kids ranging from 5 to 22 years old

My grandma was one of 11 siblings - no multiple births, 3 miscarriages and 2 infant deaths (outside of the 11 that survived).