Am I crazy?

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EEL08 said:
No way! My grandma lives in Chester. She has lived there all her life and loves it. My mom went to school there and my cousin did as well. I remember many a weekend driving from Cdale to Chester to see my grandma and go to her church. We also went to the river when I was a kid and collected driftwood. Yeah I know we were hip and cool. My grandma still works at the courthouse. What a small world!
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:laugh: We are so hijacking this thread right now!

Collecting driftwood seems to be a popular thing along the river there 🙂

I ran into a guy from Chester this weekend up in the Chicago burbs!
 
megboo said:
My grandma was one of 11 siblings - no multiple births, 3 miscarriages and 2 infant deaths (outside of the 11 that survived).
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yea but that was back in the day. now it's rare to see this sort of thing
 
The guy is taking premed prereqs now, right? So he has ~ two years before he can apply. Maybe if half of his kids are out of the house by the time he hits clinical rotations, he'll be ok. Hmmmm....
I don't know. I'm concerned how me being in medical school is affecting my two young children.... I'd be very concerned about how this will affect his children whom I'm guessing already don't have a lot of one on one time with their father (how can they, there are 11 of them).
If all of the children are from the same mother (I can't imagine giving birth to 11), I'd hope that he started at like 18 and so the oldest is 18 right now. I think the ages and spread of the children's years is important.... wish he'd tell us that piece of info.

megboo-sorry for disecting... I was more responding to Law2Doc's "disection" than I was to your comment.
 
Oops sorry everyone! I just think it's amazing to run across someone from back home. My husband is one of ten and there were three others, 2 died shortly after birth and another as a toddler. I agree that it isn't as common now and I cannot imagine having 11 kids!
 
polarbingbear said:
yea but that was back in the day. now it's rare to see this sort of thing
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My dad was one of 9 (I think there were 3 siblings in addition to the nine that died as infants). My mom was one of 7. Both of their fathers were farmers and mothers were housewives. To a certain extent, children were an asset on a farm (they were cheap labor). My parents both survived fine, but I wouldn't say they don't have issues regarding their rearing. Neither of them recieved much of an education (Dad completed ninth grade). My mom and her sisters (5 sisters) all wore clothes made of feed sacks. Mom definitely has some issues with the lack of time and love shown to her from her parents as she was growing up. I think my dad fared better than my mother as one of the oldest and as a male on the farm.
Anyway, people do what they have to do.....
 
My $0.02:

If you want to go for it, then go for it. It will not be easy, no doubt about it, but as another non-trad who gave up a good job to go into debt and become an MD, I don't regret it at all. Not for a second. (However, I am not married and do not have nor want kids)

I am going to second someone else's post: why not look into PA school? This seems like a much better option for you. Although you may need more pre-reqs, the training is only 2 years (two HARD years--you will probably not be able to work much despite what a previous poster said) but no residency and you can start working right away. With a few years of clinical experience, you may find the level of knowledge, skill and autonomy you will obtain immensely fulfilling. And once you actually get into the thick of things (which is really only when you will know if you are overextended with all your responsibilities), you will have much more flexibility in terms of changing jobs or even medical specialty to accomodate your lifestyle and family. Plus, you will make a solid salary and have less debt. To me, it sounds like someone a little older who has a lot of family obligation and limited resources but wants to care for patients for the betterment of their quality of life (as opposed to making a boatload of cash, running a lab, becoming chief of staff at a hospital or chairman) should look twice at the PA profession if you are not already well acquainted with it.

Although I clearly think highly of the PA profession (I used to be a PA) I can also attest that if you have your heart set on being a physician then going to PA school may not be the best choice for you. Just look around SDN and you will see an incredible amount of negative sentiment directed toward PAs ranging from mildly disrespectful to calling PA's outright negligent. It may take a lot to swallow this if you have it in your heart to be a physician.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about PA school or going back to med school a little later in life. Whatever you choose, best of luck to you!🙂
 
Op,

Just to be frank...This is the year 2007. Most of us, unlike our ancestors, no longer make a living in farming where 11 kids would come in real handy.
If you said you had 11 kids I would be wonder if you were crazy already, like are you a fanatical catholic where every ejaculation is for the purpose of procreation or do you have more than wife etc.? I know this might be misconstrued as offensive but its not meant that way so much as seeking to typify the cultural mindset that your asking opinions of. Most of us on the nontrad forum are full-time working professionals who already have previous careers with at most 1-2-or 3 kids. Most of those with kids have a support network with a few notable exceptions. Alot have the resources to stop working to capitalize on their previous success to make the jump into a new career. Its hard on everbody. You on the other hand have your own trible. As the chief of that tribe you are skating the edge of self-absorbtion and unresponsibility by pursuing a medical career. Possible? None of us could say. As far as I know nobody on this forum is the head of their own small village. Good luck with your decision either way.
 
hey the dude asked in a public forum am I crazy, I gave my opinion, honestly I might add.

Assumptions...how so?...last I heard a medical career was an all-encompassing thing...that leaves little time for other things, much less 11 individuals who turn to you for a knowledge of how to make it through life.

I was raised by a full-time working/full-time student mother...but I was only one of three..things worked-out fine with me...but i could of turned out different and no one would have been there to know the difference. I attribute alot of my prolonged adolesence to searching longer for how to be in the world effectively on my own.

My assumption is based on my assessment of reality not trying to be uselessly rude..but thanks for policing the forum for morality and correctness.
 
He didn't ask if you thought he was crazy for having 11 kids. Medicine is not necessarily all-encompassing and he has a wife who's a stay at home mom. I was also raised by a mother who worked full-time and went to med school when I was in grade school. It sucks. But that's a different issue than this.

The amount of kids a family has is none of your business if they take care of their own. Now, having 11 kids AND trying to go back to med school - I agree is a lofty ambition. But to make rude comments just because he's a guy who happens to have 11 kids (outside of the context of wanting to go to med school) is pretty rude.
 
I apologize to the OP if what I said was offensive.
My purpose was to portray what I believe would be the mindset of my urbanite constituencey as a potential indicator for what would be in the minds of the op's potential evaluators, be they interviewers or adcomms or whatever. For such purposes honesty is the only useful thing one can get when asking for anonymous online advice, all of which, is of questionable importance to begin with when dealing with one's own personal issues.
I described what would immediately creep into my mind when someone says they have 11 kids. Do I really think less of anyone who chooses this path?, of course not. I'm incredulous but it not my business. Unless one specifically asked the open ended question and is considering undergoing the application process as is asking for unqualified opinions. So doing puts one on the course for answering to all sorts of judgements be they academic or personal from a variety of entities all of which contribute to the acceptance or denial of each of us.
We are free to carry on with all sorts of modes of conversation on these boards. If for you that means nurturing and being positively supportive that's great. But for myself both in the giving and recieving of input I perfer brutal honesty and realism even when it pertains to any particular prejudice that i might face. Affording 11 kids and providing them with the other things they need are distinct endeavors which are inseparable in that both will suffer the consequences of seeking and completing a medical education. I sincerely believe that supporting a family of that size is prohibitive of doing both adequately. He was asking for opinions he got them. End of story.

P.S. If a man is capable of shouldering the burden of 11 children i should think him capable of standing up for himself should he feel offended.
 
Nasrudin is doing good responsible service work here; perfectly appropriate in my view. If the OP is living any kind of sheltered existence (home schooling and bible college are clues) than it's a service to him to introduce the harsh response that he should expect from premed advisors and financial aid people and fellow students. This isn't an Oprah story, it's a Jerry Springer story.
 
I went to a Bible College and I would consider myself far from sheltered. I also went to that school with a guy who had 5 or 6 siblings and they were all home-schooled. They participated in a variety of sports and other activities, had a lot of good friends and are very well adjusted and definitely not sheltered.
 
There's a show on TLC right now called "Kids By the Dozen". It's profiling a family with 14 kids (13 boys & 1 girl)! Wow! But they seem to have it all under control, they have a "system" of course. Pretty impressive!

Woah, the next profile will be on a family with 16 kids!!!

Anyone else watching?!
 
EEL08 said:
I went to a Bible College and I would consider myself far from sheltered. I also went to that school with a guy who had 5 or 6 siblings and they were all home-schooled. They participated in a variety of sports and other activities, had a lot of good friends and are very well adjusted and definitely not sheltered.
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Definitely. Although having that many children is odd, we can't judge anything about this guy without knowing him and his family. It is perfectly fine to have that many children provided you provide for your family and your children don't suffer dreadfully for being one of many. Of course these are two points that make us object to him going to med school.... but we can't condemn this guy for having that many children. That is his own business... as is his religion and conservative beliefs (brought up with the home schooling and church activities). Honestly, it is a bit sad that these correlations are drawn - I knew a family similar to this guy. The wife was a stay at home mom, they had 7 kids, and the children were home schooled. Some neighbor though these guys were suspicious and social services showed up, threatening the husband, saying they had their eyes on him and he better not do anything stupid (i.e. have a child come into school with any bruises etc) or he'd lose his children. Come on! Kids get bruises all the time and this guy wasn't doing anything wrong.
 
Just my opinion, but from what i've seen and heard. If you have a job, 11 children and go to medical school....one or two of those are bound to suffer. There just isn't that much time in a day. The best of luck though.
 
Jacq said:
There's a show on TLC right now called "Kids By the Dozen". It's profiling a family with 14 kids (13 boys & 1 girl)! Wow! But they seem to have it all under control, they have a "system" of course. Pretty impressive!

Woah, the next profile will be on a family with 16 kids!!!

Anyone else watching?!
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Yeah - we ended up watching the one about the Duggers.

I've heard of them before, and they are a great example of how people can have it together AND have a large family. But they don't have unrealistic goals, either.
 
megboo said:
Yeah - we ended up watching the one about the Duggers.

I've heard of them before, and they are a great example of how people can have it together AND have a large family. But they don't have unrealistic goals, either.
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LOL! I saw that one. WOW!!! I am suprised her uterus didn't fall out.🙄 :laugh: After going through four preganacies myself, I can't even imagine going through it that many times. 😱
 
My final answer to the OP: You are crazy. Take a cold shower and get over it. It so will not be worth it. You think it will now but you are going to be middle-aged before you even see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You have a romantic notion of the medical profession but it isn't a bit like you imagine it. I had some notions myself and I am amused today to recall how I thought just six years ago. Hell, just four years ago before I had started third year.

If you're looking for a stable career with a good income there is no denying that medicine is a good choice but it's not worth the price you are going to have to pay and the at least eight years of poverty (seven for training and one for recovery) that you will endure.

You should get a degree in engineering if you want a change. That's only four years and you can work for money right after you graduate. And the hours are not insane in college. After working my whole life, college was like a vacation once I got the hang of it. And you don't need to get a 4.0 to become an engineer, either. You graduate and nobody asks you about your grades ever again, not like the medical profession where you beg for admission, beg for a residency, and beg for a fellowship, offering your grades as evidence of your dedication.

And that's my last post on this thread.
 
As an ER doctor, I can tell you the life can be fabulous. But it is certainly a long road. If you are meant to be a doctor, you will be. No matter age or money or anything else.

Medical school is easy compared to residency. In med school, you can have a reasonably normal life. But residency is as bad as everyone says. It's 3 years of indentured servitude. But when you are done, ER medicine (and many other types of medicine) allow for flexibility and decent monitary reimbursement.

Go with your gut. Medicine is a calling and a vocation. Don't fight it too much but enter with your eyes wide open.

Take care!

MDAdmit
 
I didn't read every post, so I am not sure if this was mentioned; however, have you given any thought that perhaps your wife would like to pursue something further in life?

I know a few families (very well) that consist of 10+ kids. In those families I have come to know, the fathers are the only one that are looking to pursue their goals and aspirations in life. However, at the same time they are leaving their wife to "take care of the home." My family has close family friends, the Johnson's, and they have 9 kids. They are in a similar situation -- the father, Tom, decided to go back to dental school after reaching the age of 40. He consulted his wife first, and they figured they were able to cash in some stocks and bonds and use up some savings in order to keep up with the finances while he attended school. He asked her specifically if she was 'o.k.' with this new career move, and she said she was happy for him.

HOWEVER, my mom and I were speaking to her one day and she expressed to us that she resented her husband, Tom. She actually started crying and expressed that she has always been the one to "take care of the home and kids" while Tom has been able to pursue his career and his dreams. She, however, has not been able to go to school or pursue a career because she has been stuck at home raising the children and taking care of the home.
 
Bitsy3221 said:
...

I am going to second someone else's post: why not look into PA school? This seems like a much better option for you......)
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PA school is a good option. Two years of kick butt work and you can be out making a difference. You'll have WAY less debt and more time to spend with your kids. You will also make good money, have career mobility and be able to change specialty to suit your interests.


Look at EmedPA. He is the cat's meow among EM PAs. Send him a PM.







By the time your youngest kids are high school freshmen there MAY be a PA-MD/DO bridge program.😉
 
Read "Hot Lights, Cold Steel"--the man had 12 kids! (would have had more had the OB not said stop or your wife will die) and finished residency. As long as you and your wife/kids are ok with not seeing you for years 3&4 of med school and 3 years of residency, then go for it. He made it cause his wife raised the kids and made the home, but they did fight about $ through it. And they only had 4 kids at the end of his residency.

Ahhhh, this is why it sucks to be female! We have to have the kids, raise them, cook, and clean...if I find myself a stay-at-home husband my fellow doctors will think I am nuts and that my husband is either lazy/emasculated but no one thinks less of a male doc with a stay-at-home wife. No fair.
 
Well, it has been said a few times, but I want to chime in and say I think the plan is a bad one for a few reasons.

1. Money. You just aren't going to be able to realistically afford this. Medical school for just ONE person can cost ~$200-$250K. Financial aid will certainly pay for YOUR expenses, but financial aid officers like to make it very clear that they don't like to pay for OTHER peoples (eg your wife and kids). I have no idea how much it costs to feed/insure/clothe that many people, but would imagine that it would be EASILY 3-4K per month. That is another ~300K during medical school and residency (accruing interest).

Do you REALLY want to spend half a million dollars just so you can do some different job? I can think of a LOT of things you could do with that much money!

Another consideration - if you start when you are 40, and aren't done with residency until you are 47 - do you have enough working years left to pay back all of that debt?

2. If you have 11 kids, obviously family is important to you. By starting this process, you will be DRAMATICALLY reducing the amount of time you have available to spend with your family.

I gotta say, as much as SDNers like to say anybody can do this, and that it is the right decision for everybody that wants it, in your case, I would think the answer is that this is a bad idea.
 
AlkaIL said:
Read "Hot Lights, Cold Steel"--the man had 12 kids! (would have had more had the OB not said stop or your wife will die) and finished residency. As long as you and your wife/kids are ok with not seeing you for years 3&4 of med school and 3 years of residency, then go for it. He made it cause his wife raised the kids and made the home, but they did fight about $ through it. And they only had 4 kids at the end of his residency.

Ahhhh, this is why it sucks to be female! We have to have the kids, raise them, cook, and clean...if I find myself a stay-at-home husband my fellow doctors will think I am nuts and that my husband is either lazy/emasculated but no one thinks less of a male doc with a stay-at-home wife. No fair.
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He did not START medical school with 12 kids. He was also not 40 when he started.
 
You'd have to be somewhat crazy, even if you were only 22 years old.
There is no question that there are some hardships ahead if you pursue a medical career, regardless of your age.

A question that I was asked when I was contemplating a Family Practice residency over a Surgery residency because it was only 3 years was, "How old will you be when you plan to retire?" My response was about 65. The response was then, "Oh, so you'd like to work for 27 years at your second choice field of specialization to save 2 years of residency." Finishing medical school and residency at age 50 will still allow you to practice for 15 years or more. If it's what you'd rather be doing, it's worth going for. I'm definately glad that I'm practicing Surgery and not Family Practice (though I sometimes wish that I'd gone on and done Plastics after residency.) I'm in my mid-50's now, and have even considered doing a fellowship, but I am enjoying what I'm doing. (General Surgery is the redheaded bastard stepchild of the surgical specialties, though.)

One advantage that you have, though, that I didn't when I started as a non-traditional medical student at age 29 can be stated in 3 words. Work Hour Limits. The 80 hour work week is long, but it's much tougher to work the 100 hour work week.

Best wishes in the pursuit of your career.
 
RuralDoc said:
You'd have to be somewhat crazy, even if you were only 22 years old.
There is no question that there are some hardships ahead if you pursue a medical career, regardless of your age.

A question that I was asked when I was contemplating a Family Practice residency over a Surgery residency because it was only 3 years was, "How old will you be when you plan to retire?" My response was about 65. The response was then, "Oh, so you'd like to work for 27 years at your second choice field of specialization to save 2 years of residency." Finishing medical school and residency at age 50 will still allow you to practice for 15 years or more. If it's what you'd rather be doing, it's worth going for. I'm definately glad that I'm practicing Surgery and not Family Practice (though I sometimes wish that I'd gone on and done Plastics after residency.) I'm in my mid-50's now, and have even considered doing a fellowship, but I am enjoying what I'm doing. (General Surgery is the redheaded bastard stepchild of the surgical specialties, though.)

One advantage that you have, though, that I didn't when I started as a non-traditional medical student at age 29 can be stated in 3 words. Work Hour Limits. The 80 hour work week is long, but it's much tougher to work the 100 hour work week.

Best wishes in the pursuit of your career.
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Your post makes sense only because you ignore the fact that he has 11 kids and is their sole financial provider, though.
 
I would love to know how you plan to provide for your kids during this time... what if you can't find clients for your business? What if you can't find the time to sell? Is it possible for your wife to work temporarily to feed the kids? I think before you begin such a venture you have to think how will your family sustain themselves if plan A. you working 20 hours per week doesn't work. There has to be a plan B, C, and D in place.
 
exlawgrrl said:
He went to a bible college, so I'd guess no. Catholics don't do things like that. 🙂 Catholics also generally don't have as huge of families as members of other religious groups these days. In my hometown, all the huge families were LDS, not catholic.
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Hardline Independent Baptist🙂
 
First, let me thank all of you that offered your opinions, followed by your reasonings. Many of you shed a lot of light on the situation for me and it has caused me to make some changes in our direction. Before I inform you of the decision that we have made, I would like to answer a few questions and put some of you in your rightful place.

I have ONE wife. She has been my wife for 15 years. We married when I was 22 and she was 20. We believe, as the Bible teaches that it is God that opens and closes the womb. I know that is outdated, but believing the Bible in general has become rather outdated in our society. The Bible also teaches that children are a blessing from the Lord. If God were blessing me with money, I certainly would not ask him to stop, why would I ask him to stop giving me children? By the way, I'm not asking you to answer that question. God has given us 11 beautiful children, all single births, none by adoption, oldest 13 and the youngest 8 months. We homeschool because it is our responsibility to teach and train our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I did not ask for your opinions about how many children I have. I have not asked any of you to support them and certainly don't appreciate the crass remarks by some posters. Your words are rude and reprehensible. The suggestions that I am not considering how this would affect my family are simply assanine. If I were not considering, I certainly would not have started this thread. As for my wife, she ascribes to the teaching of Mary Pride. Look it up. Her book is called The Way Home ~ Beyond Feminism and Back to Reality.

For those of you who posted genuine concerns and thoughts, allow me to share with you the changes that we have made. I will finish this semester and then transfer into a different local college that offers a ASN (associates degree in nursing). This will allow us to have immediate employment after schooling is completed and will not be nearly as time consuming. From that point, I will continue my educational pursuits toward the Bachelor in nursing and then reconsider Med - School at that point, if I'm even interested at that point.

This thread did shed a great deal of light, and I appreciate those of you that posted in a respectful manner. The rest of you ~ remember this ~ Opinions are like armpits - we all have them and they all stink!😡
 
I, too, have only ONE wife as all "real LDS" people have and I say go for it. My father quit dental school after the first year to care for his mother. He had 8 kids at the time and he calls and reminds me that no matter how old or how many children I have-pursue my dream because hindsite is 20/20 and the pain in the gut is equally sharp. He never went back but found another career that he loves-education-not as lucrative but $ is for the moths. Best of luck to you and your family.:luck:
 
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