Am I crazy?

[VCgirl]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So, I am an international student accepted to Jefferson. I did the math and I will owe $800,000 after a 5 year residency with a 9% interest rate (the lowest possible with Sallie Mae Signature loan). This includes having to get a US-cosigner.

If I work for two more years, I will have my Green Card since I am already in the process for three years and have filed the application last month with a 2004 priority date. Then, I will be eligible for federal loans, ect with a lower interest rate.

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house! Do you think that schools will be receptive to my decision to hold off until I get my GC? I have no problems with re-writing the MCAT and re-taking courses that will be over 10 years, which may be required by some programs.

Any advice?

 

[DocBR]

So, I am an international student accepted to Jefferson. I did the math and I will owe $800,000 after a 5 year residency with a 9% interest rate (the lowest possible with Sallie Mae Signature loan). This includes having to get a US-cosigner.

If I work for two more years, I will have my Green Card since I am already in the process for three years and have filed the application last month with a 2004 priority date. Then, I will be eligible for federal loans, ect with a lower interest rate.

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house! Do you think that schools will be receptive to my decision to hold off until I get my GC? I have no problems with re-writing the MCAT and re-taking courses that will be over 10 years, which may be required by some programs.

Any advice?

I am not an adcom member, but I cannot think of a better reason to hold off or defer acceptance.
Isn't the MCAT good for 3 years though?

 

[sejin8642]

Does your school(Jefferson) not provide financial aids to foreigners? If so, contact the school and ask about deferral. Some schools defer matriculation if an acceptee has valid reasons.

 

[dutchman]

Do not, I repeat DO NOT go $800,000 in debt for medschool. That is the greatest financial risk imaginable. Wait and do it cheaper.

 

[Nomemory]

...anyone in their right might would understand. I vote hold off.

 

[DocBR]

VCgirl - judging off your name I assume you are from Canada.

Did you only apply to US schools?

 

[Tired Pigeon]

I would imagine the med school would consider this an excellent reason for deferral. See if you can arrange this so you avoid having to go through the whole application cycle again.

Even if deferral is not possible, I'd look at it as having 500,000 great reasons to wait a couple years & reapply. Really, that's an awful lot of $$!

 

[Law2Doc]

Do not, I repeat DO NOT go $800,000 in debt for medschool. That is the greatest financial risk imaginable. Wait and do it cheaper.

That seems like too much debt to service in any reasonable time frame, and the interest payments alone are going to be a huge chunk of your post residency salary.
I would talk to the school. Or plan to marry rich.

 

[GuyE]

800,000 is a bit much.
If I faced that huge pile of a debt, I would put it off until I got a green card. 🙂

 

[MirrorTodd]

Answer to your question...Yes. And I didn't even have to read your post either. 😀

 

[gujuDoc]

So, I am an international student accepted to Jefferson. I did the math and I will owe $800,000 after a 5 year residency with a 9% interest rate (the lowest possible with Sallie Mae Signature loan). This includes having to get a US-cosigner.

If I work for two more years, I will have my Green Card since I am already in the process for three years and have filed the application last month with a 2004 priority date. Then, I will be eligible for federal loans, ect with a lower interest rate.

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house! Do you think that schools will be receptive to my decision to hold off until I get my GC? I have no problems with re-writing the MCAT and re-taking courses that will be over 10 years, which may be required by some programs.

Any advice?

In your particular situation, anyone who tells you to run with the acceptance is a pure idiot in my honest and humble opinion.

800 grand is a bit much for debt. That's almost reaching a million dollars if you tack on 200k more. That's just absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and not worth it if you are going to have your GC guaranteed in 2 years. Holding off on those two years might be worth it and probably not a bad option for the simple reason that once you get your GC you will probably have opened doors for other opportunities at a greater range of medical schools.

MCAT scores are usually good for up to 3 years so you might not need to retake it as you've suggested. What would you be doing in those 2 years?? Working or going into a masters program?? Are you allowed to work without a GC? Or do you need to continue some sort of education to stay in the country? I'm not sure how it works for you guys but I'd say its wiser to wait it out til you get the GC and reapply. 800k is like taking a good 4-8 students' worth of debt and compiling it and all to have graduated 2 years earlier is not worth it.

 

[VCgirl]

Thanks so much for the replies. I am from Canada and only applied to three US schools since I didn't want to study up north. I am waitlisted at Dartmouth, which would be significantly cheaper than Jefferson and also offers fin. aid, but I felt really at home at Jeff. It's where I want to go so I will contact admissions Monday and tell them about my situation. I had NO idea that the difference would be so significant. I found out the attrocious interest rate Friday and have had trouble sleeping ever since. I already have been working for six years and really want to start med school this fall 🙁. Now it makes sense that some schools require international students to deposit four year's tuition into an escrow account!

To add to that, having my GC will make things easier during residency. I am a medicinal chemist and will continue to work, continue to build my 401k and will have enough saved to pay for my first year of med school, ect. I think that it will be a smart decision. Thanks again!!

 

[MadHopsMD]

So, I am an international student accepted to Jefferson. I did the math and I will owe $800,000 after a 5 year residency with a 9% interest rate (the lowest possible with Sallie Mae Signature loan). This includes having to get a US-cosigner.

If I work for two more years, I will have my Green Card since I am already in the process for three years and have filed the application last month with a 2004 priority date. Then, I will be eligible for federal loans, ect with a lower interest rate.

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house! Do you think that schools will be receptive to my decision to hold off until I get my GC? I have no problems with re-writing the MCAT and re-taking courses that will be over 10 years, which may be required by some programs.

Any advice?

wait how do you owe 800K again? Even the most expensive school its not more than 400k ? what am i missing?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Yeah I may be doing the math wrong but normal federal loans are around 6.8%. How in 9 years is 9% interest amounting to 800K? 9% compounded anually for 9 years should only increase the initial amt by 217% while 6.8% will increase it 181%. Not a major difference. Check your math

 

[VCgirl]

Yeah I may be doing the math wrong but normal federal loans are around 6.8%. How in 9 years is 9% interest amounting to 800K? 9% compounded anually for 9 years should only increase the initial amt by 217% while 6.8% will increase it 181%. Not a major difference. Check your math

Calculations based on 9% interest rate (the lowest that I would receive)

62000 + (5000) 67000 year 1
67000 + 65000 = 132000 + (11,800 interest) = 140,000 year 2
140000 + 67000 = 207000 + (18,630) = 225630 year 3
225630 + 67000 = 292630 + (26,337) = 318967 upon graduation!!

Residency 2 yrs – (57,414 accrued interest) – loan amount = 376,381
Residency 5 yrs – (143,535 accrued interest) – loan amount = 462.502
Residency 7 yrs – (200,955 accrued interest) – loan amount = 519,922

Repayment
10 yr 15 yr 20 yr
376,381 195,759 (4767.84/mo) 310,770 (3816.51/mo) 436,543 (3386.40/mo)
462,502 240,552 (5858.78/mo) 381,879 (4619/mo) 536,198( 4161.25/mo)
519,922 Too depressing to calculate!!


The difference is paying for my first year of school by deferring. My loan amount would be ~180k, max upon graduation. The major difference is a much lower interest rate. The difference between 4% or 10% is a lot. I think that my math is fine, but tell me if I am wrong. Don't forget that US or perm residents get a portion of their loan subsidized.... My boyfriend has a 4% interest rate so I thought that rates are lower than 6.8%. I guess it's on an individual basis?

 

[MadHopsMD]

um interesting. I dont think the interest rates gets tacked on though. You pay interest while at med school, using the money you borrowed. SO once you get out you owe exactly 200 k (assuming 50K a year you borrow). After residency you can actually start paying down your debt (remember you get paid around 40-60 as a resident). So in the end for a 200K loan you end up paying back to bank around 350-400K (principal + interest paid during med school years and during residency), obviously you can lower this depending how cheaply you live during your residency years...

Calculations based on 9% interest rate (the lowest that I would receive)

62000 + (5000) 67000 year 1
67000 + 65000 = 132000 + (11,800 interest) = 140,000 year 2
140000 + 67000 = 207000 + (18,630) = 225630 year 3
225630 + 67000 = 292630 + (26,337) = 318967 upon graduation!!

Residency 2 yrs – (57,414 accrued interest) – loan amount = 376,381
Residency 5 yrs – (143,535 accrued interest) – loan amount = 462.502
Residency 7 yrs – (200,955 accrued interest) – loan amount = 519,922

Repayment
10 yr 15 yr 20 yr
376,381 195,759 (4767.84/mo) 310,770 (3816.51/mo) 436,543 (3386.40/mo)
462,502 240,552 (5858.78/mo) 381,879 (4619/mo) 536,198( 4161.25/mo)
519,922 Too depressing to calculate!!


The difference is paying for my first year of school by deferring. My loan amount would be ~180k, max upon graduation. The major difference is a much lower interest rate. The difference between 4% or 10% is a lot. I think that my math is fine, but tell me if I am wrong. Don't forget that US or perm residents get a portion of their loan subsidized.... My boyfriend has a 4% interest rate so I thought that rates are lower than 6.8%. I guess it's on an individual basis?

 

[VCgirl]

Unfortunately, with the budget Jefferson gives, I will not be able to pay interest while in school. I'll barely have enough to live! That would make a big difference, like you said. In my case that is not possible. So that debt is accurate as the amount that I would owe after four years. My calculations are based on not making payments during residency so the numbers will be lower. Although, I still don't think deferring two years to get my GC is a bad idea taking that into consideration. CanuckMD, are you also using Sallie Mae?

 

[MadHopsMD]

Unfortunately, with the budget Jefferson gives, I will not be able to pay interest while in school. I'll barely have enough to live! That would make a big difference, like you said. In my case that is not possible. So that debt is accurate as the amount that I would owe after four years. My calculations are based on not making payments during residency so the numbers will be lower. Although, I still don't think deferring two years to get my GC is a bad idea with that into consideration. CanuckMD, are you also using Sallie Mae?

no US co-signer 🙁, so i will be going through canadian channels. You will just have to borrow a little more to pay the interest. lol I am not sure how it works, but 800K is too extreme. I suggest you email a OOS jefferson student to find out how they handle this situation. but there is NO way its 800K.

 

[smq123]

So, I am an international student accepted to Jefferson. I did the math and I will owe $800,000 after a 5 year residency with a 9% interest rate (the lowest possible with Sallie Mae Signature loan). This includes having to get a US-cosigner.

If I work for two more years, I will have my Green Card since I am already in the process for three years and have filed the application last month with a 2004 priority date. Then, I will be eligible for federal loans, ect with a lower interest rate.

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house! Do you think that schools will be receptive to my decision to hold off until I get my GC? I have no problems with re-writing the MCAT and re-taking courses that will be over 10 years, which may be required by some programs.

Any advice?

I was surprised to read this, because we have a fair number of international students in the health professions and nursing schools at Jeff. Maybe they got their green cards, but...all of them?

Did you talk to Susan Batchelor? She's the director of financial aid at Jeff, and incredibly capable and helpful. You could email her (Susan.Batchelor at jefferson.edu), or call (215) 955-2867, and tell them it is VERY important that you speak to Susan Batchelor ASAP.

If she tells you that there's nothing she can do for you, then I wouldn't call the admissions office first. I'd call Dr. Callahan (PM me for her office # - I don't want to give it out in public) or email her. The admissions office got a new director a year ago, and I don't know how experienced this person is yet. Dr. Callahan has tons of experience with admissions, and I'm pretty sure that she's probably come up against a similar situation. They may be willing to let you defer for 2 years, or maybe she can pull a few strings for you. I don't know - I hope this works out! I'd love to see you around campus next year!

Good luck!!!

 

[MadHopsMD]

The difference is paying for my first year of school by deferring. My loan amount would be ~180k, max upon graduation. The major difference is a much lower interest rate. The difference between 4% or 10% is a lot. I think that my math is fine, but tell me if I am wrong. Don't forget that US or perm residents get a portion of their loan subsidized.... My boyfriend has a 4% interest rate so I thought that rates are lower than 6.8%. I guess it's on an individual basis?

i thought only 5000 or so was subsidized. afterwards its 6.8...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

About interest rates, even with US government loans, you won't see anything below 6.8% interest unless Congress passes an interest deduction bill for grad students. I think your boyfriend might have had 4% for last year, but he's surely borrowing at 6.8% for this year for the bulk of his loans.

However, I don't see any school faulting you for wanting to hold off for two more years in your situation.

 

[Critical Mass]

i thought only 5000 or so was subsidized. afterwards its 6.8...

$8,500, and the subsidized portion is only interest-free while you're in school. Also, the feds adjust (or at least think about adjusting) the interest rate every year.

Can non-US citizens qualify for FAFSA-based aid? I'm not denying that they can, I just didn't know how these things work for people who are from other countries.

I'd hold off. Money is definitely a motivating factor.

Also, be careful about advertising that you want GC. In the clinical setting, that means gonorrhoea (gonococcus/GC is the old name for N. gonorrhoeae).

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i thought only 5000 or so was subsidized. afterwards its 6.8...

Subsidized staffords and unsubsidized staffords are both at 6.8%. You can only borrow $8500k/year in subsidized staffords. Subsidized staffords are much better, though, because interest doesn't accrue while you're in school or in deferment. You might maybe also get $5k (or is it $6k) in Perkins loans, which have a 5% interest rate. Perkins loans are fairly rare and awarded on a discretionary basis by the school, so there's no guarantee you'll get them. This is the first academic year where US students have been stuck with this relatively large interest rates.

Oh yeah, you can only borrow ~$40k/year in staffords per year, so for money beyond that you're usually stuck with an 8.5% interest rate, which is the rate for the GradPlus loans.

 

[VCgirl]

Subsidized staffords and unsubsidized staffords are both at 6.8%. You can only borrow $8500k/year in subsidized staffords. Subsidized staffords are much better, though, because interest doesn't accrue while you're in school or in deferment. You might maybe also get $5k (or is it $6k) in Perkins loans, which have a 5% interest rate. Perkins loans are fairly rare and awarded on a discretionary basis by the school, so there's no guarantee you'll get them. This is the first academic year where US students have been stuck with this relatively large interest rates.

Oh yeah, you can only borrow ~$40k/year in staffords per year, so for money beyond that you're usually stuck with an 8.5% interest rate, which is the rate for the GradPlus loans.

You guys are great. Thanks for all of the informative responses. My original statement for $800k is high, but there will still be a substantial differnce by deferring. I'll call Jeff and see what they say.

 

[thebeatblitz]

While subsidized staffords are way better, I think they're at a very low level you can borrow against.

Even so, holy ****, there's no loophole for students that would allow you to receive a green card faster?

$800K, even if it's a safe, highball estimate, is...a great deal of money. I know you have until somewhere in June to ask for a year deferral at Jefferson, and then maybe you could convince the government to expedite your green card? I have absolutely no experience with all of this, so i'm just thinking out loud here. In any case, good luck. I'm sure the Dean/finaid people will work with you here.

 

[JDovers]

The difference is ~$500,000. That's enough to be a house!

That, VC Girl, is a FEW houses where I come from.

 

[baylormed]

That, VC Girl, is a FEW houses where I come from.

Hehe, you and I must live close by. I thought the same thing when I read that.

 

[baylormed]

While subsidized staffords are way better, I think they're at a very low level you can borrow against.

Even so, holy ****, there's no loophole for students that would allow you to receive a green card faster?

$800K, even if it's a safe, highball estimate, is...a great deal of money. I know you have until somewhere in June to ask for a year deferral at Jefferson, and then maybe you could convince the government to expedite your green card? I have absolutely no experience with all of this, so i'm just thinking out loud here. In any case, good luck. I'm sure the Dean/finaid people will work with you here.

Now, that's funny.

I waited 2 and a half years for mine, even though it was only supposed to take 1-1.5 years since I'm the child of a born US citizen. I hate bureaucracy.

 

[thebeatblitz]

Yeah, I figured it was a long shot with all the red tape, but I had to throw it out there since I have no idea if medical schools defer matriculation for two years.

 

[deleted128318]

If you can get your green card in 2 years, why not start school on private loans? You will get your GC after two years and then can apply for federal aid for MS3. You can consolidate all of your loans (private+federal) through a fed loan consolidation and you will not be paying 9% interest on any of it.

 

[MadHopsMD]

I think VC in the end AT the MOST the MD will cost you around 400-500K. If you consider that an average doctor with a 7 year residency will be making around 400-500K (surgery speciality, onco-rad, etc)...your two years waiting for GC might end up actually costing you much more. I understand that you would prefer to defer for 2 years, and you have a good reason for it....but if you plan on giving up your MD seat and waiting 2 years you are nuts (perhaps even a boarderline lunatic if you consider giving up a seat to a school as good as Jefferson 😀 ). For a person who got in after his 4th time applying...all I can say is even though you had success this cycle, I have painfully learned that luck has a big component of the process...and you cant be lucky all the time 🙂

 

[dutchman]

Just wait. There is no garauntee of how much you are going to make in mediciane. It could be anything from 90K as a primary physician(50% of physician workforce) to 500K as a spine surgeon. IMO, this is not a risk worth taking especially since all you need to do is wait 2 years.

 

[Nomemory]

That, VC Girl, is a FEW houses where I come from.

It's a half a house where I come from. 😉

 

[GoLAClippers]

Just wait. There is no garauntee of how much you are going to make in mediciane. It could be anything from 90K as a primary physician(50% of physician workforce) to 500K as a spine surgeon. IMO, this is not a risk worth taking especially since all you need to do is wait 2 years.

Wait, are you telling me that many doctors only make $90,000/year? That is horrible! I bet those are that graduated from bottom 25%of their med school with low USMLE scores...

 

[GoLAClippers]

edit: double post

 

[smq123]

Just wait. There is no garauntee of how much you are going to make in mediciane. It could be anything from 90K as a primary physician(50% of physician workforce) to 500K as a spine surgeon. IMO, this is not a risk worth taking especially since all you need to do is wait 2 years.

Wait, are you telling me that many doctors only make $90,000/year? That is horrible! I bet those are that graduated from bottom 25%of their med school with low USMLE scores...

50% of the physician workforce were in the bottom 25% of their med schools?

 

[PEN15]

I feel your pain VCgirl.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Wait, are you telling me that many doctors only make $90,000/year? That is horrible! I bet those are that graduated from bottom 25%of their med school with low USMLE scores...

you are lucky that you're hot.

the flaming you will get for this won't be nearly as bad as if it were someone else saying this, say... me. 😱 😱 😱 🙄

 

[ScroogeMcTroll]

Is your boyfriend a U.S. citizen? Marry the bum - make your life easier. If not, dump him for an American and get your citizenship the old-fashioned way. 😛

 

[MirrorTodd]

Wait, are you telling me that many doctors only make $90,000/year? That is horrible! I bet those are that graduated from bottom 25%of their med school with low USMLE scores...

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. People choose their specialties for many different reasons and how you did in med school is just one of them.

 

[Nomemory]

you are lucky that you're hot.

the flaming you will get for this won't be nearly as bad as if it were someone else saying this, say... me. 😱 😱 😱 🙄

Ha.

 

[MirrorTodd]

you are lucky that you're hot.

the flaming you will get for this won't be nearly as bad as if it were someone else saying this, say... me. 😱 😱 😱 🙄

No offense but..she's hot?😕

 

[Nomemory]

No offense but..she's hot?😕

...is it kinda weird when someone says, "no offense..." followed by something offensive? 🙄

 

[baylormed]

...is it kinda weird when someone says, "no offense..." followed by something offensive? 🙄

You know what is to follow when you hear someone say:

"No offense but..."

"I don't mean to sound racist but..."

"I don't want to be mean but..."

"I don't want to sound like a jerk but..."


If you've got nothing nice to say better not say anything at all. Now, if you really must say something mean or jerkish, be a man (or woMAN) and don't apologize for it and accept the consequences.

 

[etf]

That, VC Girl, is a FEW houses where I come from.

where i come from, that will get you a 1bd/0 bath.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

No offense but..she's hot?😕

haha. welp, i think her avatar pic is hot. (I also think VCgirl and Pemberley are hot ... though Pemberley is the chick from stargate or something... oh yea, jessy erin is hot too)

 

[baylormed]

haha. welp, i think her avatar pic is hot.

If this person has got a picture of a hot chick as an avatar, it's probably not a "she." Just my guess.

 

[Nomemory]

If this person has got a picture of a hot chick as an avatar, it's probably not a "she." Just my guess.

Can someone PLEASE tell me how to double quote?!

BM (no offense ): Haha on both counts, one of which I can't quote because I'm computerarily developmentally disabled.

P.S. 1bd/0bth

 

[MirrorTodd]

You know what is to follow when you hear someone say:

"No offense but..."

"I don't mean to sound racist but..."

"I don't want to be mean but..."

"I don't want to sound like a jerk but..."


If you've got nothing nice to say better not say anything at all. Now, if you really must say something mean or jerkish, be a man (or woMAN) and don't apologize for it and accept the consequences.

Why not apologize? Don't you think the world would be a much better place if people apologized?
Person #1"No offense, but I'm going to kill you."
Person #2 "Really? Okay."
See how much better the world would be?

 

[MadHopsMD]

insulting how people look...is that an American thing? I see that way to often on American Idol.

BTW: I think VCgirl is hot...so screw you mirrortodd 😎