Am I crazy?

[MadHopsMD]

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Wait, are you telling me that many doctors only make $90,000/year? That is horrible! I bet those are that graduated from bottom 25%of their med school with low USMLE scores...

GPs in Canada take home about 150K CND (~125K USD). shouldnt it be more in the states?

 

[baylormed]

Why not apologize? Don't you think the world would be a much better place if people apologized?
Person #1"No offense, but I'm going to kill you."
Person #2 "Really? Okay."
See how much better the world would be?

Of course, how could I have doubted the power of an apology in circusmtances like that. My mistake. 😛

 

[Critical Mass]

BTW: I think VCgirl is hot...so screw you mirrortodd 😎

Just to make my feelings clear, VCgirl is gorgeous, but I also love her for her mind. Same to you baylormed. 😍

 

[DocBR]

50% of the physician workforce were in the bottom 25% of their med schools?

That made me chuckle.

 

[MirrorTodd]

I was talking about Golaclippers you fools. All that I implied was that I didn't think she was hot. I don't think she's ugly, but I can't make an accurate judgment without seeing her in person.

 

[baylormed]

That made me chuckle.

I know. It makes no mathematical sense.

 

[MadHopsMD]

Tell me if I went wrong somewhere!!!

Calculations based on 9% interest rate...and figures in USD

62000 + (5000) = 67000 year 1
67000 + 65000 = 132000 + (11,800 interest) = 140,000 year 2
140000 + 67000 = 207000 + (18,630) = 225630 year 3
225630 + 67000 = 292630 + (26,337) = 319 upon graduation!!

total interest (year 1 to 4)= 62K

9% interest on 319= ~ 29K
average income for 7 year residency = 50K
minimum need to live/eat = 21K
Interest payment = 50-21 = 29K

You pay 29K for 7 years = 182K

Compound interest for 5 total years (you can do this because your salary after 7 years is ~250K minimum) at 9% for a total amount of 318967 = 172

So... 172 + 182 + 62K = 416K.
My tution/expenses = 257K

Total for your med education = 673K (taking into account at 9% interest). Debt paid by 16 years (4 med school years + 7 res years + 5 working years).

not worth the risk to apply again...unless you get lower interest + cheaper state school...even then, its doubtful.

 

[Cirrus83]

VCGirl, it's NOT going to be ANYTHING even close to $800K.

And keep in mind, you do make a little bit of scratch during residency, which you can (and will) be using to start paying down the loans. No, it won't be funtastic, but you won't actually owe very much more than any regular US citizen would anyway.

The slight difference in interest rate isn't enough to justify putting off med school for several more years, since each year you put off is basically coming off the tail end of your salary as a doctor.

Basically, if you planned on retiring at 65, you'll be losing a few of the LAST years of your salary as a full-time doctor, because you'll have less total years as a doctor. So unless the difference in interest exceeds how much you expect to make in the last few years working fulltime (I word it this way because a lot of doctors keep working part time but are really semi retired at the very end of their careers, but going to med school later wouldn't trim those years, it'd trim the full time years down assuming you decide to retire or semi-retire at the same age).

Trust me, there's no way the 2% or so difference in interest is ever going to justify the salary loss. Then again you do make a decent amount in your current job unlike most of us, so maybe the math actually makes sense for you, particularly if you want to go into a low paying specialty or something. But if you think you'll be in a fairly high paying specialty it'd make zero sense to delay this.

Anyways I have NO idea where you're getting this 800K thing from. And even though it is going to be insanely expensive anyways (although again, not nearly 800K) it's not that much cheaper for anybody else, so the only thing you should be considering is the difference. And that difference will not be a lot.

The only thing that it'll really end up doing is making you pay off the loans more quickly, whereas someone else might put their salary towards investments and hold their loans longer hoping that their investments will grow more quickly than their interest does.

And keep in mind that many (most?) residency programs provide housing along with the salary (or at least subsidized housing), so even though you'll be making a mere $50K and paying a ton of loans, you can get by on somewhat less money because of the nonexistant or low housing costs.

Just a random example:
http://www.twhresidency.org/public/index.cfm?WebPageID=21&CategoryID=6&TheMenuItem=6
It's a family medicine residency so maybe they're sweetening the deal more than usual, since this one happens to include even DSL and phone service in your salary package lol.

So other than the cost of food and transportation you'll basically be able to put the entirety of the rest of your salary towards your loans.

Of course there's a whole issue of taxes too, but your student loan interest might also be tax deductible, so I'm not really sure how it would work out in the end. But more or less I think I could scrape by on $10K a year post tax in food and transportation costs (lol, come to think of it I scrape by that on that now more or less), leaving anywhere from $20K to $35K in post-tax money to pay down the loans (again, this seems to depend a lot on how the tax deductions work, I have no idea).

Regardless, I would go if I got in this year instead of worrying about deferrals, so long as you can find a US co-signer anyway.

 

[VCgirl]

Thanks YankeeCanuckMD. Like I said, those calculations were the very maximum that it would be. I like your numbers better, but still somewhat depressing. I think that I will go because taking two more years off vs losing two year's salary as a physician is not worth the risk of losing my seat. Besides, I need to get out of chemistry...six years is a long time!! 🙂

And yes, my bf needs to marry me! I think that he will only do so if I go to AZCOM. To be honest, I'd rather not put my fate in his hands.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

um interesting. I dont think the interest rates gets tacked on though. You pay interest while at med school, using the money you borrowed.

What? Why would you be paying interest with the money you borrowed? It seems cyclical because then you're just borrowing more. Also, you can get your loans approved for more than the cost of education and living, and paying interest is not included in that.

 

[lunaire]

VCgirl, any development on the Jefferson financial aid? As an 'alien' myself, I'm interested in your progress?

Also, listen to Cirrus's point: if you defer for 2 years, you'll be losing 2 years of income as a physician. That would mean ~$200k as FP, or more as a specialist.

 

[spreebee]

I was surprised to read this, because we have a fair number of international students in the health professions and nursing schools at Jeff. Maybe they got their green cards, but...all of them?

Did you talk to Susan Batchelor? She's the director of financial aid at Jeff, and incredibly capable and helpful. You could email her (Susan.Batchelor at jefferson.edu), or call (215) 955-2867, and tell them it is VERY important that you speak to Susan Batchelor ASAP.

If she tells you that there's nothing she can do for you, then I wouldn't call the admissions office first. I'd call Dr. Callahan (PM me for her office # - I don't want to give it out in public) or email her. The admissions office got a new director a year ago, and I don't know how experienced this person is yet. Dr. Callahan has tons of experience with admissions, and I'm pretty sure that she's probably come up against a similar situation. They may be willing to let you defer for 2 years, or maybe she can pull a few strings for you. I don't know - I hope this works out! I'd love to see you around campus next year!

Good luck!!!

Remember, some of the International students are U.S. citizens attending school abroad...

 

[notdeadyet]

It could be anything from 90K as a primary physician(50% of physician workforce) to 500K as a spine surgeon.

Avg for a primary care physician is anywhere from $125K-$160K, depending on your source. And PCP's make up only 35% of the U.S. physician workforce.

Where do you get this stuff?

 

[smq123]

I was surprised to read this, because we have a fair number of international students in the health professions and nursing schools at Jeff. Maybe they got their green cards, but...all of them?

Remember, some of the International students are U.S. citizens attending school abroad...

The international students I was referring to are from China, India, Canada, etc, who attend Jefferson (in Philadelphia).

 

[polycon7]

Gosh 800k is a huge amount and doesn't seem possible for med school! I hope it works out for you VCGirl. Hopefully, we'll be classmates this fall at Jeff but waiting two years is looking like a great option. Someone posted earlier about getting private loans while you wait to receive your GC and then consolidate before getting FAFSA financial aid. I hope this is a viable option for you as well.

 

[O Face]

800 grand is a bit much for debt. That's almost reaching a million dollars if you tack on 200k more.

Wow, what brilliant insight. How ever did you reach that conclusion?

And you're right, 800 grand is a bit much for debt. That's almost a billion dollars if you tack on $999,200,000.