Am I crazy?

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brightness

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I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I've considered a career as an NP/PA for a long time. The thing is, for some reason, I am more drawn to nursing than I am to being a PA. This is after knowing that NPs make less money, have less rigorous training, and are unable to practice, for the most part, in a surgical setting. I also have a good PA school where I currently go to school. And, the biggest thing is, I have a BS in psychology- so I'd have to go get a BSN, then a MSN, whereas if I did PA route, I would only have two years after my u-grad is over. I have a decent GPA- 3.6- and I could get it up a bit, too.
I can't figure out what draws me to nursing, except that I am somewhat interested in floor nursing, or practicing as an RN for awhile- just because I want to have more time in the medical field. I feel like being a PA with no previous medical experience (most programs do require some, but it certainly wouldn't be like being an RN....I'd probably do nursing assistant) is scary!
I know this is a decision a lot of people are torn on, but I feel like the route I would take isn't sensible. I'd have a lot more earning potential in two years as a PA than I would if I went to nursing school, practiced nursing, and then became an NP.
What should I do? :confused:

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if you already have a bs you can get a bsn in 1 yr through an accelerated program.
get the bsn, work for a while as an rn, then decide pa vs np as you would be prepared for both then.
 
I can't figure out what draws me to nursing, except that I am somewhat interested in floor nursing, or practicing as an RN for awhile- just because I want to have more time in the medical field.

Maybe you should shadow some floor RN's before you make that statement. It's not as romantic of an idea as you think. Many RN's burn out from doing it and try to flee to "advanced practice". That's why there's a glut of NP's out there and not enough RN's.
 
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See a psychiatrist?

Have you followed through with the advice people have given you on numerous occasions and actually shadowed with a PA, an NP, etc? Have you shadowed with a floor nurse? I'd be willing to bet not.

The reason I'm saying this is floor nursing is one tough row to hoe. The burnout rate is tremendous. I'm wondering if you have a realistic view of what nursing is or if you have some sort of idealized view of it. Don't get me wrong, if you think nursing is your passion, you should go for it, but...

You've had quite a few posts about being conflicted regarding your career path. Trust me, you cannot go into nursing being conflicted. There is a lot that's good about nursing, but there's a boatload of ugly, too. Have you ever gone over to allnurses.com and read some of the threads there, particularly the threads in the section for new grads?

You haven't listed one positive reason for going into nursing, only excuses for why you're not taking the PA path. Big red flag. If you think going through nursing school is some sort of cakewalk, think again. That's if you get into a nursing program; in most areas, the waitlists are tremedous. So don't go into it as some sort of fallback position.

If you think I'm being hard on you, that's nothing compared to what real instructors in nursing programs put you through. You had better do it for reasons other than lack of courage to do something else. Being a nurse can be "scary" too!

I really have no idea what I'm doing, but I've considered a career as an NP/PA for a long time. The thing is, for some reason, I am more drawn to nursing than I am to being a PA. This is after knowing that NPs make less money, have less rigorous training, and are unable to practice, for the most part, in a surgical setting. I also have a good PA school where I currently go to school. And, the biggest thing is, I have a BS in psychology- so I'd have to go get a BSN, then a MSN, whereas if I did PA route, I would only have two years after my u-grad is over. I have a decent GPA- 3.6- and I could get it up a bit, too.
I can't figure out what draws me to nursing, except that I am somewhat interested in floor nursing, or practicing as an RN for awhile- just because I want to have more time in the medical field. I feel like being a PA with no previous medical experience (most programs do require some, but it certainly wouldn't be like being an RN....I'd probably do nursing assistant) is scary!
I know this is a decision a lot of people are torn on, but I feel like the route I would take isn't sensible. I'd have a lot more earning potential in two years as a PA than I would if I went to nursing school, practiced nursing, and then became an NP.
What should I do? :confused:
 
Yes, I have shadowed RNs and NPs. I didn't shadow a PA, but I did meet with one for an interview here at CMU. He is an older grad, started out as a EMT.
My experience shadowing nurses was two- fold. One, I shadowed the nurses in a medical surgical department. Later in the afternoon I spent some time in the cardio ICU. In both cases I found the experience to be positive in some ways- I got to see all the patient contact that the nurse has. I found the ICU to be a nicer place to work, because more of the patients were compliant and also because it was just a wonderful facility- very new, state of the art. It was very exciting, the idea that in a year I could be right there taking care of patients. Other paths would take much longer to be able to help people.
To be honest, I think that all people who want to be nurses have a somewhat idealized idea of the profession. I have to say, however, that most of the nurses I spoke with said that even though their careers were difficult, they were also rewarding. When I spoke with the cardiac ICU nurse who I was with that afternoon, she encouraged me to go into nursing because it pays well, it flexible, and allows you to really be there for patients and provide care. She also said that although some of the physicians can be crabby, for the most part they respect and value her opinions and work together with the nursing staff. Altogether, I got a great vibe from that working environment.
My biggest reason for wanting to be an RN- and I did say this in my post, I think- was so that I could have really in depth patient care experience prior to becoming a mid level. Also, it gets me out into the workforce more quickly. My other reason for interest in nursing is the amount of patient care and the flexibility that the field of nursing offers- there are so many areas of nursing one could choose to work in. I have a fairly competitive GPA, so I do think I could get into a nursing program, and I don't think they are a cakewalk. I do think I am capable of handling it, however.
I have thought about a lot of options- NP/PA, Vet Med, Human Medicine, and Psychology. Thats pretty much where I am at right now. Its been one of the most difficult choices I've ever had to make.
 
Well, I'm glad you shadowed some nurses. If you really think it's right for you, then you should go for it. Try to apply to as many programs as possible. I know you said you have a competetive GPA, but there really is a serious shortage of spots in most areas for seats, and even people with very high GPAs get waitlisted.

There was a really good series of articles about a new nurse who had gone through an accelerated program and into an ICU setting--I think it was in Boston. I'll try to find it for you.
 
That would be great. I know that nursing school is difficult, and I worry about doing an accelerated program in terms of how much information would come at me at once.
 
"I found the ICU to be a nicer place to work, because more of the patients were compliant "

Huh? How can they not be compliant.... they are not conscious (many of them). If compliance irks you then being an NP/PA will bother you. ICU work is extremely stressful and you have to think quick and recognize the many problems ICU pt's have. Pt's are non compliant. I can't see how that makes a place nicer to be in.

Perhpas you are drawn to floor nursing because you worry about decision making. It does sound like you are trying to take the "easier" road. Not that that is a bad thing but this is decision that you need to make for yourself. Good luck!
 
The patients I met were a mix of conditions, but they were all recovering from cardiovascular surgery. Lots of bypass surgeries, and all of the people were at various levels in the recovery phase. Some were unconscious, as they were straight from surgery, and others were up and moving around, or being extubated, or just being helped to sit up for the first time since surgery.
I met a really nice older man, probably in his early 70s, and his entire family was there- his daughter/son in law, his son, and three grandkids. The nurse I shadowed was very concerned about his blood glucose level, as was the family. The nurse brought this to the attention of the doctor, and was able to regulate the man's blood sugar by putting him back on his medications (he wasn't allowed to have them during the surgery). She also explained why he was off of his blood sugar medication, and other issues about his recovery. The family hardly even saw the doctor- they got all the information from the nurse.

SLD- I don't understand your post. First, I was comparing the Cardio ICU to the Med/Surg floor- as in, more of the patients were compliant. Naturally, they weren't all compliant. Second, the semantics of your post are confusing me. Compliant = to oblige, agree, submit. When you say "if compliance irks you"...do you mean if NON-compliance irks you? When you say "Pts are not compliant- I don't see how that makes a nicer place to be in"- thats not what I said at all. I said that because the Cardiac ICU patients were more compliant- perhaps cooperative is a better word- than the Med/Surg floor patients were, I found the Cardiac ICU floor to be more pleasant. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I want to say, in my own defense I guess...that this is not a decision I've taken lightly. I don't think that nursing is an easy way out- if anything, its one of the harder paths I think I've considered. I've thought about doing psychology, social work, human medicine, vet med, special education, pa...and I still think that in terms of a career, nursing (and probably social work) are the two hardest jobs. Maybe they are shorter paths than other ones, but I still think that education is going to be easier, in any discipline, than floor nursing would be.

In addition, nursing is basically the shortest path to a job, which I think leads to the conclusion that I am taking the easy way out, ect. One reason is, I'm not sure what I want to do, so pursuing a doctoral level degree seems silly if I'm not 100%. If I became a nurse that would be one year out of my life *and $21,000.00- but at least I wouldn't be making a huge committment to a field I'm not sure about. In reality, I am very poor, my parents have no money, I have no money, and I am struggling through school. Becoming a nurse would put money in my pockets- which, admittedly, is an attractive prospect. But there is the cost of the education....

Does anyone see my predicament?! I am really discouraged about this whole issue.
 
Does anyone see my predicament?! I am really discouraged about this whole issue.

Why not take a year off and travel around the world and come back with new perspectives?
 
Why not take a year off and travel around the world and come back with new perspectives?

not a bad idea....join the peace corps,travel the world, it's now or after you retire so why not now?
 
Having been a nurse for 2 years and 3 months I can attest that nursing is no cake walk, however the rewards are tremendous. I just love it when western medicine does what it's supposed to do: heal the patient. And being there for a twelve hour shift you see first hand the improvements, subltle as they sometimes may be, but nonetheless a spring board of contentment.

I would encourage you, since you state that you are financially not equipped, perhaps financially strapped, to take on the burden of a $21.000 loan to consider other options in education. Why not attend a community college ADN program? I first attended a University thinking I would get the superior education, boy was I ever wrong@! And besides you can always get your bachelors / masters online post ADN!
If you have not yet done so, I would post questions on the allnurses. com website...This along with SDN is a very valuable asset to those of us in the medical field.
 
Traveling is a cool idea and an option. I've always wanted to see the world and help the world in the process, and the peace corp is a beautiful way to do that.
Temet- Its good to hear from another nurse here! :) I am nearly finished with my bachelor's degree in psychology, actually, so it seems that starting over with a two yeare degree may not make sense. On the other hand, it may be cheaper to do it that way and to work towards a BSN later. My end goal is to work neonatal ICU if possible. I've also thought of special education, psychology, and being a PA (obviously!) So I'm having a hard time deciding what I should do. Its good to hear of a happy nurse! What specialty are you in?
 
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Having been a nurse for 2 years and 3 months I can attest that nursing is no cake walk, however the rewards are tremendous. I just love it when western medicine does what it's supposed to do: heal the patient.

Just for the record, western medicine is concerned with curing, not healing.
 
What specialty are you in?
I've been working telemetry ever since I graduated 2 and 1/2 years ago. I enjoy it because it is less ICU intense yet we do get complex cases. The patient's tend to be more alert and sometimes I get a patient who aught to be in ICU since I find myself checking on that patient every 15 minutes it seams:eek:. Ironically I had to float to ICU last week, so don't think I can't handle ICU LOL! We are the next step after a patient has been in ICU so we expect harder cases than your ordinary medsurge floor. The MDs know this and prefer to send their admits to our floor;).

PS. Ever considered travel nursing?! It pays better than the peace corps LOL
Just for the record, western medicine is concerned with curing, not healing.

I stand corrected, zenman! Just like bacon huh?
 
Just for the record, western medicine is concerned with curing, not healing.

I prefer to be cured.

I'm not sure what your definition of healing is, but from my understanding, healing is an important concern in western medicine.
 
Honestly, you would really be better served getting into an accelerated program. In the same time it would take you to graduate from an ADN program (less, actually) you'd have a BSN and have far more options than you would as an ADN.

Travel nursing is not the greatest option for new nurses. Caroladybelle, who posts here often, is a traveler with many years of experience. She can give you a pretty realistic picture of what travel nursing is like.

I still say with as undecided as you sound that you need to do some more thinking.

If you're discouraged by some of the comments regarding nursing, sorry, but that's the reality of the profession. It's not sunshine and roses. As I said before, there's plenty of good, but there's a lot of ugly, too. I've restrained myself from saying some of the really negative things.
 
I prefer to be cured.

I'm not sure what your definition of healing is, but from my understanding, healing is an important concern in western medicine.

Medicine is a reductionist system so is about as far from a healing profession as you can get...by it's very nature. And even if a physician was interested in healing he would not be able to in today's health (disease) care system.

And you can be cured but not healed.

"Dr. Lori Arviso Alvord bridges two worlds of medicine—traditional Navajo healing and conventional Western medicine—to treat the whole patient. She provides culturally competent care to restore balance in her patients' lives and to speed their recovery.

As a Stanford-trained surgeon, she developed her technical and clinical skills. Alvord was the first Navajo woman to be board certified in surgery. But when she returned to the New Mexico reservation to work in a Navajo community she discovered, she says, that "although I was a good surgeon, I was not always a good healer. I went back to the healers of my tribe to learn what a surgical residency could not teach me. From them I have heard a resounding message: Everything in life is connected. Learn to understand the bonds between humans, spirit, and nature. Realize that our illness and our healing alike come from maintaining strong and healthy relationships in every aspect of our lives."

Surgery can remedy many ills, but as Alvord worked with her Navajo patients she learned that modern scientific medicine by itself could not reestablish the missing harmony in their health. Navajo healers (hataalii) use song, symbols (such as corn pollen, eagle feathers, masks of the Navajo gods, and sand paintings), and ceremony with their patients, and involve family and neighbors in the process. The psychological and spiritual comfort thus provided can prepare patients for surgery, childbirth, or chemotherapy, for example, and speed their recovery afterwards.

Dr. Alvord is still a surgeon, but she tries to heal, not just fix, her patients by working with families, other practitioners, and constant cultural awareness. She looks for the places in the patient's life, relationships (both personal and with health care providers), and environment where things are out of balance. "Hospitals need to have places where you can see trees and grass and sky and sun... animals nearby, and not just for children and the elderly. Beauty is so important—artwork on the walls, gardens, outdoor porches with a view. A hospital should also have the right smells, the right foods, the right sounds, the things in life that soothe us. We should also avoid the things that are wrong, that cause stress—no harsh sounds, no bright lights, no invasive overhead paging."

In Alvord's New Mexico house, her two worlds sit side by side: a beeper on the table, a cell phone on its charger, and a stack of medical journals that share space with a handmade wood and leather cradleboard. A menagerie of bear fetishes inhabits the mantelpiece."
 
fab4fan- You know what, I'm not sure about being a nurse. I am sure about some things. I want to help people, I want to deal with women, children, and childbirth, and I want a flexible career with adequate pay. Nursing seems to offer a lot of these things. I have a ton of interests, and I've thought of doing conservation bio, psychology, becoming a doctor, PA, nurse, english teacher, special education teacher, english professor....
I'm crazy and its hard for me to make decisions. But I really do feel that nursing has a lot to offer me, particularly in terms of what I want to do with my life. I'd love to take care of women, children and to teach classes in child development, behavior, and nutrition. I don't know if that would be more acccessible for a school psychologist, PA, or a special educatoin teacher. Those are the main things I am considering at this point.


I don't know, I don't think there are any perfect careers, but I do wonder if my "skin" is thick enough for nursing. I'm not the best person at math and science, but I can work hard and get through it. I am good at writing and speaking, primarily. I think there are a lot of avenues I could take to pursue these goals, but I also think that nursing would offer a lot of great opportunities. Mainly I think of being a neonatal NP or a nurse midwife. I've also thought of being a PA in pediatrics or OB-GYN. I'd LOVE opinions of what you guys think about all this, oh grown ups who live in the real world and have real jobs. (I know very few people in this category!)
 
Brightness, are you working in the medical field right now?
 
You know what, I'm not sure about being a nurse. I am sure about some things. I want to help people, I want to deal with women, children, and childbirth, and I want a flexible career with adequate pay. Nursing seems to offer a lot of these things.
Not FAB4! However I suggest you try shadowing a nurse midwife! And I know you've heard it all before...look at allnurses.com...and voice your concerns there too, you'd be surprised, not all nurses are "thick skinned!"
 
What was that supposed to mean?

Not FAB4! However I suggest you try shadowing a nurse midwife! And I know you've heard it all before...look at allnurses.com...and voice your concerns their too, you'd be surprised, not all nurses are "thick skinned!"
 
What was that supposed to mean?
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that I was not FAB4 who she was addressing in her last post...that's all. Sorry for the potential misinterpretation.

TEMETNOSCE
 
zenman

what is your point that western medicine is a reductionist process?

Well of course it is - when a patient comes in with a UTI we treat the UTI - Duh.

Now of course while the patient is there we take a social history - how did you get the UTI and should we be concerned with other problems such as STDs

We also assess for pain and treat accordingly (what is the shammanistic prescription for pain - more chanting?) I prefer narcotics for pain a patient perceives as difficult to tolerate.

We also develop a discharge plan that attempts to ensure some kind of follow up.

So what else could I possibly treat and should I don goat skin chaps? I know you would not be treating the actual medical condition so the patient would continue to suffer from the infection. And your drumming and chanting might provide some distraction or comfort but I would find it annoying.

So what would you actually do for the patient with a UTI - nothing and that is far worse for the patient than our horrible reductionist western medicine.

So you are just vomiting words that have no real meaning "reductionist" , "cured" and "healing" are just cliché phrases used to avoid the truth - that you do not actually have the ability to treat anything medical.


chant on shamman
 
zenman

what is your point that western medicine is a reductionist process?

Well of course it is - when a patient comes in with a UTI we treat the UTI - Duh.

Now of course while the patient is there we take a social history - how did you get the UTI and should we be concerned with other problems such as STDs

We also assess for pain and treat accordingly (what is the shammanistic prescription for pain - more chanting?) I prefer narcotics for pain a patient perceives as difficult to tolerate.

We also develop a discharge plan that attempts to ensure some kind of follow up.

So what else could I possibly treat and should I don goat skin chaps? I know you would not be treating the actual medical condition so the patient would continue to suffer from the infection. And your drumming and chanting might provide some distraction or comfort but I would find it annoying.

So what would you actually do for the patient with a UTI - nothing and that is far worse for the patient than our horrible reductionist western medicine.

So you are just vomiting words that have no real meaning "reductionist" , "cured" and "healing" are just cliché phrases used to avoid the truth - that you do not actually have the ability to treat anything medical.


chant on shamman

Sigh...I guess you didn't understand what your peer, a general surgeon said did you? A reductionist system does not treat the "whole" person. Medicine as currently practiced must change. You probably know the stats on the number of visits made to alternative practitioners. Let them tell you something.

http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/spring00pj/healing.html

I treat the same medical conditions you do; you treat the snakebite (sciweb.nybg.org/science2/pdfs/mb/Lessons-May-rev.pdf) and I'll work from a different approach and with both of us maybe the patient will do better.

Look at Brightness for example, wondering around lost trying to make a decision. Brightness, I guess that's your pic and you are apparently in some health field or trying to get into one. And you live in MI. Don't know if you have any health problems or not and don't want to know at the moment. If you like, I will journey for you and tell you what I find. We can keep it private if you wish.
 
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