Am I just not fit to become a scribe?

[Im76at711]

Okay this is a long story. I will try to only say the important parts.

got hired to become a scribe in December. After getting hired, I did not receive correspondence from the chief scribe at all, so I called her on her cell phone when she was at work. Big mistake. I did not know it would be a huge deal, but it was. She got really mad.

I apologized and I thought that was that. During orientation training she would not even LOOK at me. there was only 5 of us in the group and she wasnt engaging me at all. I did bad on the classroom terminology/abbreviation quizzes but so did the rest of the "class". She sent me an email saying to work harder. Okay, compelely agree with her. I did. I checked the schedule and she didn't schedule me at all for the month of March, but scheduled the other new 4 scribes all month. First training shift she gave me another quiz: I got 80 percent right, and the two mistakes that I did have were very very minor. During that training shift, she was tearing me to shreads on every damn thing I was doing. Like everything. She expected me to be a robot (no small talk, criticized my clothing, the way I sat, the way I looked, what I did in my downtime [according to her, when ther is downtime, I try to create work to do it. what the ****?]). I went home knowing that I did not do that great, but I felt that I learned a lot. 2nd training shift, i improved immensely. My HPIs were better, pt tracking was better, even her criticisms were not too negative. I went home expecting her to praise me in the review email.

She basically made it sound like I was doing even worse. Thats when I had it, I wasn't sure if she was in for me before but at the moment I was 100000% sure. I made an enormous fuss about it for the fear of getting fired (her review emails made it seem like she was eventually going to fire me, not to mention her not scheduling me at all for the month of March).Basically the scribe company, the manager at the hospital, and HR got involved and I was scheduled to train with someone else. Now, this guy I trained with is just of a ****ing dickwad knit picker as she is. Like even if I am doing everything right, he critcizes me for the stupidest ****. I complimented another scribe on his shoes, and he said not to do that. He also said that during the free time (no pts, no charts, nothing to ****ing do) I was wasting time. WHAT THE HELL?!?! What in the Buddhas name am I supposed to do when there is nothing to do? he said I wasnt tracking patients enough... uhm maybe because your in front of the ****ing screen and I can't see ****?

Basically, does my personality prevent me from being a good scribe? this guy and the girl both say my HPIs are too information-y and bullet point-y instead of saying a complete story. i agree my HPIs are intermediate in level, but they make it seem like I have been working as a scribe my whole damn life. Who is in the wrong? Am I just not a good enough information grabber to become a scribe? Am i eventually going to get fired?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[takeurmeds02]

From what you're saying, I don't see that you've done anything wrong. They both sound like dinguses.

You're options are to:

1. quit and politely explain to the higher ups that the level of professionalism with the scribe leadership at the hospital is piss poor
2. Still complain to the higher-ups but stay and hope that something changes and you're not digging yourself in a deeper hole
3. Stick it out and see if it doesn't get better

I personally have zero tolerance for disrespect. There's a way to provide constructive criticism without being an asshat. They are your colleagues, not your parents. From one adult to another, you shouldn't have to tolerate that, especially in a scribing position.

One thing that I will suggest is to be observant of the culture at the hospital, the way they dress, the amount of small talk they make with each other, etc. I would even call out the chief scribe or trainer if they are doing things that they specifically told you not to do.

Also make sure that you're on your own P's and Q's so that when they do start bitching, you know for a fact that it has nothing to do with your own professionalism or productivity.

Sorry to hear this man. Hope you figure this is all out soon.

 

[Tabiyou]

Hey man, sorry this happened to you. I have been working as a scribe in the metropolitan area for over a year now. Read the reviews on glassdoor.com for scribeamerica, or any other scribe company that is out there. Unfortunately, Chief Scribes and physicians largely dictate how 'enjoyable' your scribe experience will be, and your experience is right on par (sadly). It is a great experience, and for the most part, I have enjoyed my time as a scribe. Just document (no pun intended) on how they treat you and keep trying to stick through. I would recommend applying for different scribe jobs around your area with the same and different scribe company. Best of luck.

 

[whatever5]

From the story you've told, it sounds pretty clear that you don't think you're not cut out to be a scribe. Either you have really bad luck with the people training you, or there's more to the story, but it's up to you if you want to endure it and stay in a ****ty situation just for med school. If I were you, I'd try to find a job that I like because not hating my life is something that is very important to me. You'll just resent being in med school if you've suffered so long to get there, just to get **** on more.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

I know snitches get stitches, but if you do lose your job/not make it through the training process, do you due diligence and report any abusive/unprofessional behavior to higher ups in scribeamerica. Their higher ups are definitely responsive to those problems. Also, to support yourself, ask the physician if you're doing a good job/how the HPI's are ect. If they give you praise, I can't imagine your chief scribe finding problems with that.

But I definitely understand your frustrations with your chief scribe. They feel as though they are hot **** when they are only scribes at the end of the day. I know a few people who are chief scribes and think that they are high up there, they insult physician's, PA's, NP's, nurses behind their backs ect in a very unprofessional manner. Hell I know an instance where one chief scribe flat out said that the PA had the wrong treatment plan, but when she consulted the physician, he said to continue with the course that she had outlined. Like chief scribes, or even scribes in general, do not have the right to comment on the job other medical professionals are performing, especially relating to clinical judgement. Just keep your head up, try your hardest to improve, and if it doesn't, you take what you learned and use it to good use elsewhere.

 

[Im76at711]

From what you're saying, I don't see that you've done anything wrong. They both sound like dinguses.

You're options are to:

1. quit and politely explain to the higher ups that the level of professionalism with the scribe leadership at the hospital is piss poor
2. Still complain to the higher-ups but stay and hope that something changes and you're not digging yourself in a deeper hole
3. Stick it out and see if it doesn't get better

I personally have zero tolerance for disrespect. There's a way to provide constructive criticism without being an asshat. They are your colleagues, not your parents. From one adult to another, you shouldn't have to tolerate that, especially in a scribing position.

One thing that I will suggest is to be observant of the culture at the hospital, the way they dress, the amount of small talk they make with each other, etc. I would even call out the chief scribe or trainer if they are doing things that they specifically told you not to do.

Also make sure that you're on your own P's and Q's so that when they do start bitching, you know for a fact that it has nothing to do with your own professionalism or productivity.

Sorry to hear this man. Hope you figure this is all out soon.

Thats the thing. All of the scribes there are like buddy buddy. every single one. i feel like the chief scribe not liking me is spilling over to everyone else (except one, bless his heart he is really nice to me) because the chief scribe is one of those people where if you are on her good side, you're great. if you are on her bad side, uh-oh! Thank you. I really appreciate your kind words.

Hey man, sorry this happened to you. I have been working as a scribe in the metropolitan area for over a year now. Read the reviews on glassdoor.com for scribeamerica, or any other scribe company that is out there. Unfortunately, Chief Scribes and physicians largely dictate how 'enjoyable' your scribe experience will be, and your experience is right on par (sadly). It is a great experience, and for the most part, I have enjoyed my time as a scribe. Just document (no pun intended) on how they treat you and keep trying to stick through. I would recommend applying for different scribe jobs around your area with the same and different scribe company. Best of luck.

I have an interview at my local hospital 😀!!!! so incredibly excited for that, but it is through an entirely different company.

From the story you've told, it sounds pretty clear that you don't think you're not cut out to be a scribe. Either you have really bad luck with the people training you, or there's more to the story, but it's up to you if you want to endure it and stay in a ****ty situation just for med school. If I were you, I'd try to find a job that I like because not hating my life is something that is very important to me. You'll just resent being in med school if you've suffered so long to get there, just to get **** on more.

Okay. you brought up a great point. I think we are alot alike. The stress of reading all the negativitiy really does bring me down emotionally. i feel really sad. I should mention, I already got into a medical school and I got into it BEFORE I even applied to become a scribe. This job is to genuinely better myself as a future medical student. I don't think i left anything out.

I know snitches get stitches, but if you do lose your job/not make it through the training process, do you due diligence and report any abusive/unprofessional behavior to higher ups in scribeamerica. Their higher ups are definitely responsive to those problems. Also, to support yourself, ask the physician if you're doing a good job/how the HPI's are ect. If they give you praise, I can't imagine your chief scribe finding problems with that.

But I definitely understand your frustrations with your chief scribe. They feel as though they are hot **** when they are only scribes at the end of the day. I know a few people who are chief scribes and think that they are high up there, they insult physician's, PA's, NP's, nurses behind their backs ect in a very unprofessional manner. Hell I know an instance where one chief scribe flat out said that the PA had the wrong treatment plan, but when she consulted the physician, he said to continue with the course that she had outlined. Like chief scribes, or even scribes in general, do not have the right to comment on the job other medical professionals are performing, especially relating to clinical judgement. Just keep your head up, try your hardest to improve, and if it doesn't, you take what you learned and use it to good use elsewhere.

The doctors do actually praise me on my HPIs. One doc just made a minor addition, and said verbatim "other than that it looks great" he is a really supportive doctor, all of them are except the medical director doctor, because she is at the center of the negativivty, I am not saying that she is the cause of it, but every little thing is reported back to her. My friend works at another hospital, and he said that even though the providers are nice, they are usually snitches lol.

To be completey fair, I do not know how the other scribes are treated at the training shifts, but the fact that I wasnt scheduled through March and they were when we had similar quiz scores is troubling to me. I would also like to mention that after I made a fuss, the chief scribe is suddenly all nice to me. its weird and a little creepy. but when the new trainer sent that email that said I wasn't doing well, I couldn't help but see her being all happy to have yet another reason to do away with me 🙁 I feel like (not sure, so I don't want to assume) I am being literally ganged upon.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Thats the thing. All of the scribes there are like buddy buddy. every single one. i feel like the chief scribe not liking me is spilling over to everyone else (except one, bless his heart he is really nice to me) because the chief scribe is one of those people where if you are on her good side, you're great. if you are on her bad side, uh-oh! Thank you. I really appreciate your kind words.



I have an interview at my local hospital 😀!!!! so incredibly excited for that, but it is through an entirely different company.



Okay. you brought up a great point. I think we are alot alike. The stress of reading all the negativitiy really does bring me down emotionally. i feel really sad. I should mention, I already got into a medical school and I got into it BEFORE I even applied to become a scribe. This job is to genuinely better myself as a future medical student. I don't think i left anything out.


The doctors do actually praise me on my HPIs. One doc just made a minor addition, and said verbatim "other than that it looks great" he is a really supportive doctor, all of them are except the medical director doctor, because she is at the center of the negativivty, I am not saying that she is the cause of it, but every little thing is reported back to her. My friend works at another hospital, and he said that even though the providers are nice, they are usually snitches lol.

To be completey fair, I do not know how the other scribes are treated at the training shifts, but the fact that I wasnt scheduled through March and they were when we had similar quiz scores is troubling to me. I would also like to mention that after I made a fuss, the chief scribe is suddenly all nice to me. its weird and a little creepy. but when the new trainer sent that email that said I wasn't doing well, I couldn't help but see her being all happy to have yet another reason to do away with me 🙁 I feel like (not sure, so I don't want to assume) I am being literally ganged upon.

Take the time off!!!! I'm literally dying to get out of work and enjoy my last few months of freedom

 

[FutureFloridaDr]

OP.. I left scribing because my chief scribes were dinguses. If it's with the company I used to work with, they will not do anything.
My chief scribes came in hung over, b****ing at everyone for no reason, and very unprofessional.... yet I dealt with so much disrespect.
It's a tough decision.

And before people say "oh but you'll get criticized in med school blah blah blah and in residency." This is true without a doubt.
However my argument to that is that in med school, you're getting criticized by someone successful. The chief scribes are failures at life who want to make your life miserable just because they're a failure at life themselves.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

Dude. You're already accepted to med school?!?! Just quit and find an easier job. It is not worth it to get **** on just to "better yourself as a medical student." You will learn everything you need to in med school, you don't need to go through some unforgiving job. Find something better paying and more enjoyable.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[justmoveonup]

OP.. I left scribing because my chief scribes were dinguses. If it's with the company I used to work with, they will not do anything.
My chief scribes came in hung over, b****ing at everyone for no reason, and very unprofessional.... yet I dealt with so much disrespect.
It's a tough decision.

And before people say "oh but you'll get criticized in med school blah blah blah and in residency." This is true without a doubt.
However my argument to that is that in med school, you're getting criticized by someone successful. The chief scribes are failures at life who want to make your life miserable just because they're a failure at life themselves.

Reading this as a chief scribe...

To be serious, OP, this sounds like a crappy situation. I concur with the first reply re: your options. I think the official advice would be to contact your chief scribe's boss and let them know (politely of course) what the chief scribe has done wrong. Though depending on what the CS's boss is like and what their relation is with the CS, this may not help and could hurt you. Other options are to keep your head down and keep working; once you're done training you usually have very little contact with your CS other than through email, though they can still make your life less pleasant.

And considering you've already been accepted to medical school, I would probably just quit and try to enjoy my time before school starts. This'll be your last extended time off for years and years! Hope you find a solution and good luck.

 

[FutureFloridaDr]

Reading this as a chief scribe...

To be serious, OP, this sounds like a crappy situation. I concur with the first reply re: your options. I think the official advice would be to contact your chief scribe's boss and let them know (politely of course) what the chief scribe has done wrong. Though depending on what the CS's boss is like and what their relation is with the CS, this may not help and could hurt you. Other options are to keep your head down and keep working; once you're done training you usually have very little contact with your CS other than through email, though they can still make your life less pleasant.

And considering you've already been accepted to medical school, I would probably just quit and try to enjoy my time before school starts. This'll be your last extended time off for years and years! Hope you find a solution and good luck.

Not referring to you! Referring to my chief scribes and the other chief scribes who are unnecessarily rude as being failures. You can't be a failure since you use SDN

Yea you could try and talk to the chief's boss, but theres a 99% chance that will backfire OP.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

During that training shift, she was tearing me to shreads on every damn thing I was doing. Like everything. She expected me to be a robot (no small talk, criticized my clothing, the way I sat, the way I looked, what I did in my downtime [according to her, when ther is downtime, I try to create work to do it. what the ****?]). I went home knowing that I did not do that great, but I felt that I learned a lot. 2nd training shift, i improved immensely. My HPIs were better, pt tracking was better, even her criticisms were not too negative. I went home expecting her to praise me in the review email.

She basically made it sound like I was doing even worse. Thats when I had it, I wasn't sure if she was in for me before but at the moment I was 100000% sure. I made an enormous fuss about it for the fear of getting fired (her review emails made it seem like she was eventually going to fire me, not to mention her not scheduling me at all for the month of March).Basically the scribe company, the manager at the hospital, and HR got involved and I was scheduled to train with someone else. Now, this guy I trained with is just of a ****ing dickwad knit picker as she is. Like even if I am doing everything right, he critcizes me for the stupidest ****. I complimented another scribe on his shoes, and he said not to do that. He also said that during the free time (no pts, no charts, nothing to ****ing do) I was wasting time. WHAT THE HELL?!?! What in the Buddhas name am I supposed to do when there is nothing to do? he said I wasnt tracking patients enough... uhm maybe because your in front of the ****ing screen and I can't see ****?

Basically, does my personality prevent me from being a good scribe? this guy and the girl both say my HPIs are too information-y and bullet point-y instead of saying a complete story. i agree my HPIs are intermediate in level, but they make it seem like I have been working as a scribe my whole damn life. Who is in the wrong? Am I just not a good enough information grabber to become a scribe? Am i eventually going to get fired?

I've been through 2 scribing companies with positive experiences and I'm not smart at all. I'm very very very immature, but i know when to bite my tongue. You yet have learned to do so.

Red: Seems like you lack professionalism and probably have this snobby demeanor she probably doesnt like. If she criticized on your clothes and the way you look? It's standard that you come to work with dress pants/khakis and a non-labled polo shirt/company shirt. Also with downtime, stay focus and follow the chief scribe's directions. YOU JOB IS TO GET ON HER GOOD SIDE..... if you have too much pride..... then you will get fired.

Blue: Reading what you did, apparently you get distracted easily. Why would you compliment someone shoe? If you did, do it when there is down time. All the doctors Ive scribed for have nice watches and shoes...... I only compliment when it's appropriate. When you have down time, study over what you have learned. PLEASE tell me you bring a writing pad and take notes. I have been scribing for +3 years and Im still asking questions to this day. Im under training with a new surgical doctor; I was able to keep track of all of the patients even tho the trainer was in front of the computer. I even caught a erroneous physical finding -- which def could save the physician from a lawsuit. No excuse man. When there was down time, I went over and over the notes I written down. Asked more questions. BE PROACTIVE.

Purple: Your HPIs should be fluent, in chronological order, complete sentences (vary with doctors), and concise. To be honest, I wouldnt have a problem with you. I'm a nice guy who have been criticized 100000x, so I know how its like. The difference between you and I........ I dont complaint or fuss. Every criticism is a chance for you to improve. I always thanks the person who criticized me. Change your attitude and you have a fighting chance to thrive in the scribing realm.

My co-workers or Scribemates are gunners. They are always trying to size up one another. They are super competitive. But let me tell you a secret:

Play dumb and naive, yet remain humble. They will see you as inferior BUT will teach you everythingggggggg. If you come off too strong [which you probably did] they wont teach you everything because you are a threat/competitor.

Cheers.......May this tip fare you well.

 

[ifnotnowwren]

I am a scribe as well. I definitely agree that some of the stuff that you have described is uncalled for. The person chastising you for the shoe thing was just straight up petty. It sounds like there is some rudeness and some unprofessionalism going on there and I'm sorry you are on the receiving end of that.

However, I will say that you could maybe re-examine the criticisms and look at how you are approaching these situations. You used nit-picky to describe the test and the first person training you, and then to describe the second person training you. With respect to the test, if something is on a test, that means you have to know it, it means that someone decided that it was a good measure and they are measuring everyone on that scale. If it was on a test that goes out to everyone during training, that indicates that it was important, not nit picky. And if it was picky, then the test reflects their expectations of that level of picky detail, and to be fair, they can and should expect a high level of detail, because this is healthcare and there is a lot at stake here. If you get into a mindset of "well that's just nit-picky, what I did was fine", you aren't going to learn. Things are done a certain way for a reason. Maybe things have to be nit-picky because of billing or quality of care to the patient or because physicians outside the hospital will see the note or for legal reasons or because a physician is signing their name to your note or to provide justification for a procedure/diagnosis or to best reduce the workload of the physician you are scribing for or because you truly did something wrong or because the details do matter or all of the above. Don't make excuses ("I haven't been doing this my whole life") and don't just give up ("maybe I'm not cut out for this"). Choose to humble yourself, even if you don't initially see the validity of a critique or what is to be learned. Be open to critique and be open to learning and growth and change, it will truly serve you well here and beyond.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

This is one of the biggest reasons I turned down a job at a scribing company. There were too many gunner personalities, even in the interview setting. I also really pissed off the interviewer by asking the innocuous question of "what made you choose to pursue scribing" which resulted in this long rant about how they thought the medical school application system was rigged and they decided after a failed cycle to focus on scribing because it was more rewarding.

Everyone here is telling you to tough it out. In a way, sure, that argument has some merit, since you will have to experience it at some point in your life if you get through medical school. But be aware of who you think you have to take crap from. In my experience, every chief scribe I go to school with is a straight up sociopath that is set on killing the dreams of others because deep down inside they know they are inadequate. n=3 but after reading other posts in here, it appears to be a common theme. I also couldn't stand the smug attitude they have about being a chief scribe, as if it was their golden ticket into medical school and no other EC would ever be on the same level.

My advice, quit and do something where you don't have to take a bunch of BS from other pre-meds who barely make over minimum wage.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm strongly against doing these entry-level clinical jobs. They are very common among pre-meds, therefore not setting you apart, yet require a huge time commitment.

Your time would probably be better spent working on classes, the MCAT, and volunteering more (which requires way less of a commitment). This will do more for your application than scribing.

Also, I'm nearly done with third year and never did paid clinical work. Never once have I felt inadequate compared to fellow classmates that did this type of work. Medical school also starts you at step zero. If these jobs actually gave you a significant advantage or were crucial to your success in medical school, then they would be a requirement, like they are for PA school (which is a fast-track).

 

[Solstice91]

A lot of great points have been made already, but Ill chip in too!

Been a scribe for over 3 years, trained many people, have been a chief scribe...

Anyone who can't be understanding, empathetic, or patient with a trainee should not be a trainer, let alone a chief scribe; most people can do this job if given the proper instruction and appropriate feedback in a positive, encouraging manner. Scribes tend to have an elitist attitude towards new comers and non-scribes. Sounds like you were unfortunate enough to come across some pretty elitist, insecure pre-meds... and it probably doesn't help your case that you got into medical school.... especially if they failed to get in; scribes feel "entitled" to a seat... and they will likely resent you if you got in, especially with no scribing history (Congrats!!)

My advice to you is to continue with the company; I promise, it will get better. It's a great experience and you'll learn a lot, and when you're on your own, you won't have to answer to anyone but the doc. But if I were in your position and didn't require some sort of income (inadequate as it is) I would probably just take the rest of my time until med school to enjoy myself. You'll really just have decide if the quality of the experience is worth dealing with their nonsense. 10000000000% it's not you.

Good luck !

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

A lot of great points have been made already, but Ill chip in too!

Been a scribe for over 3 years, trained many people, have been a chief scribe...

Anyone who can't be understanding, empathetic, or patient with a trainee should not be a trainer, let alone a chief scribe; most people can do this job if given the proper instruction and appropriate feedback in a positive, encouraging manner. Scribes tend to have an elitist attitude towards new comers and non-scribes. Sounds like you were unfortunate enough to come across some pretty elitist, insecure pre-meds... and it probably doesn't help your case that you got into medical school.... especially if they failed to get in; scribes feel "entitled" to a seat... and they will likely resent you if you got in, especially with no scribing history (Congrats!!)

My advice to you is to continue with the company; I promise, it will get better. It's a great experience and you'll learn a lot, and when you're on your own, you won't have to answer to anyone but the doc. But if I were in your position and didn't require some sort of income (inadequate as it is) I would probably just take the rest of my time until med school to enjoy myself. You'll really just have decide if the quality of the experience is worth dealing with their nonsense. 10000000000% it's not you.

Good luck !

Echo this sentiment. I'm a Chief Scribe, and the situation OP described is inexcusable. However, there is always at least 2 sides to a story. There is a very steep learning curve, but after 4-6 months, it gets easier. Best wishes to all the scribblers out there!!

 

[mehc012]

From the story you've told, it sounds pretty clear that you don't think you're not cut out to be a scribe. Either you have really bad luck with the people training you, or there's more to the story, but it's up to you if you want to endure it and stay in a ****ty situation just for med school. If I were you, I'd try to find a job that I like because not hating my life is something that is very important to me. You'll just resent being in med school if you've suffered so long to get there, just to get **** on more.

A lot of great points have been made already, but Ill chip in too!

Been a scribe for over 3 years, trained many people, have been a chief scribe...

Anyone who can't be understanding, empathetic, or patient with a trainee should not be a trainer, let alone a chief scribe; most people can do this job if given the proper instruction and appropriate feedback in a positive, encouraging manner. Scribes tend to have an elitist attitude towards new comers and non-scribes. Sounds like you were unfortunate enough to come across some pretty elitist, insecure pre-meds... and it probably doesn't help your case that you got into medical school.... especially if they failed to get in; scribes feel "entitled" to a seat... and they will likely resent you if you got in, especially with no scribing history (Congrats!!)

My advice to you is to continue with the company; I promise, it will get better. It's a great experience and you'll learn a lot, and when you're on your own, you won't have to answer to anyone but the doc. But if I were in your position and didn't require some sort of income (inadequate as it is) I would probably just take the rest of my time until med school to enjoy myself. You'll really just have decide if the quality of the experience is worth dealing with their nonsense. 10000000000% it's not you.

Good luck !

Honestly, OP's story sounds completely standard for scribing from what I've seen at a few locations. I stuck with it...eventually when you get good at it, the criticisms become even more ridiculous. I just worried about what the doctors thought; usually when the chief scribe is that uptight, that's how they always are, they're not going to fire you over it, they just think that a big stick = good management and that endless nitpicking is a sign of professionalism and attention to detail. Stick to the docs, keep them happy, and you'll be fine. (Note: occasionally you'll find a doc who also trained in a 'constant criticism' environment and decides to apply that to their scribes, too, sorry.) I personally found that when the companies start trying to use bullying as a management style post-training, when your performance is fine, they find themselves crossing the line into labor law violations at times, and pointing that out once or twice tends to keep them off your back in general.

Long story short: you probably won't deal much with your Chief Scribe once you're trained, so if you like the job and the environment, and are still getting something worthwhile out of it, I'd stick it out. After that, just keep the docs happy and let the scribe company b*tch in the background if it makes them happy. They're irrelevant; they won't be the ones writing you a rec!

 

[frosted_flake]

This is one of the biggest reasons I turned down a job at a scribing company. There were too many gunner personalities, even in the interview setting. I also really pissed off the interviewer by asking the innocuous question of "what made you choose to pursue scribing" which resulted in this long rant about how they thought the medical school application system was rigged and they decided after a failed cycle to focus on scribing because it was more rewarding.

Everyone here is telling you to tough it out. In a way, sure, that argument has some merit, since you will have to experience it at some point in your life if you get through medical school. But be aware of who you think you have to take crap from. In my experience, every chief scribe I go to school with is a straight up sociopath that is set on killing the dreams of others because deep down inside they know they are inadequate. n=3 but after reading other posts in here, it appears to be a common theme. I also couldn't stand the smug attitude they have about being a chief scribe, as if it was their golden ticket into medical school and no other EC would ever be on the same level.

My advice, quit and do something where you don't have to take a bunch of BS from other pre-meds who barely make over minimum wage.

The gunners are strong in the ER that I tech in.
STRONG... Like bringing MCAT books to work strong.


Btch plz

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

Honestly, OP's story sounds completely standard for scribing from what I've seen at a few locations. I stuck with it...eventually when you get good at it, the criticisms become even more ridiculous. I just worried about what the doctors thought; usually when the chief scribe is that uptight, that's how they always are, they're not going to fire you over it, they just think that a big stick = good management and that endless nitpicking is a sign of professionalism and attention to detail. Stick to the docs, keep them happy, and you'll be fine. (Note: occasionally you'll find a doc who also trained in a 'constant criticism' environment and decides to apply that to their scribes, too, sorry.) I personally found that when the companies start trying to use bullying as a management style post-training, when your performance is fine, they find themselves crossing the line into labor law violations at times, and pointing that out once or twice tends to keep them off your back in general.

Long story short: you probably won't deal much with your Chief Scribe once you're trained, so if you like the job and the environment, and are still getting something worthwhile out of it, I'd stick it out. After that, just keep the docs happy and let the scribe company b*tch in the background if it makes them happy. They're irrelevant; they won't be the ones writing you a rec!

Actually, I worked in so many EDs with so many clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA), I did get the "company" management to write my LOR. Like a lot of folks say on SDN, MD LOR are considered Fluff. I had a very strong management letter (they sent me a draft when they submitted, as it was a generic LOR, they wanted me to have it if I needed a reference for another part of my life). They commented on my clinician evals, working well with others (I was a trainer at the time, not a chief yet), how my performance ranked with my peers. I considered it more useful than if I asked any of the MDs to write one.

 

[Neutropix]

A lot of people seem to forget that scribing is a job and should be treated as such. Most companies pay minimum wage and t

The gunners are strong in the ER that I tech in.
STRONG... Like bringing MCAT books to work strong.


Btch plz

Bringing an MCAT book to work has nothing to do with gunning. That's just taking advantage of downtime. Some facilities don't mind if their scribes study so long as their work is completed.

 

[Neutropix]

Actually, I worked in so many EDs with so many clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA), I did get the "company" management to write my LOR. Like a lot of folks say on SDN, MD LOR are considered Fluff. I had a very strong management letter (they sent me a draft when they submitted, as it was a generic LOR, they wanted me to have it if I needed a reference for another part of my life). They commented on my clinician evals, working well with others (I was a trainer at the time, not a chief yet), how my performance ranked with my peers. I considered it more useful than if I asked any of the MDs to write one.

That's a great idea for a recommendation.

I was offered a trainer position but declined due to less flexibility of my schedule, etc. After I graduate I'll consider taking the position. You all have a tough job as chiefs, nevermind training.

 

[Neutropix]

Honestly, OP's story sounds completely standard for scribing from what I've seen at a few locations. I stuck with it...eventually when you get good at it, the criticisms become even more ridiculous. I just worried about what the doctors thought; usually when the chief scribe is that uptight, that's how they always are, they're not going to fire you over it, they just think that a big stick = good management and that endless nitpicking is a sign of professionalism and attention to detail. Stick to the docs, keep them happy, and you'll be fine. (Note: occasionally you'll find a doc who also trained in a 'constant criticism' environment and decides to apply that to their scribes, too, sorry.) I personally found that when the companies start trying to use bullying as a management style post-training, when your performance is fine, they find themselves crossing the line into labor law violations at times, and pointing that out once or twice tends to keep them off your back in general.

Long story short: you probably won't deal much with your Chief Scribe once you're trained, so if you like the job and the environment, and are still getting something worthwhile out of it, I'd stick it out. After that, just keep the docs happy and let the scribe company b*tch in the background if it makes them happy. They're irrelevant; they won't be the ones writing you a rec!

It's funny how the veteran doc's physicals are succinct, typically two sentences at most in my experience wheras a new hire, be it physician or mid-level have overly detailed physicals.

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

That's a great idea for a recommendation.

I was offered a trainer position but declined due to less flexibility of my schedule, etc. After I graduate I'll consider taking the position. You all have a tough job as chiefs, nevermind training.

Not really tough, just irritating at times when folks don't take the job seriously. The 24/7 on call can be a bit much, but you really learn a lot about the management, the actual management of the ED, and so much more. If you have the chance, do it for 6 months. You will get an appreciation for administration (I find I have a talent for admin, so maybe I'll gun for Chair or Dean someday, ha ha ha). Probably not, still too much of an ole boy network at the top. Maybe if Hillary can break that glass ceiling, others will fall too, and women can aspire to such lofty heights! Getting 50% of the seats in Medical School and Law School is a start.

 

[mehc012]

Actually, I worked in so many EDs with so many clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA), I did get the "company" management to write my LOR. Like a lot of folks say on SDN, MD LOR are considered Fluff. I had a very strong management letter (they sent me a draft when they submitted, as it was a generic LOR, they wanted me to have it if I needed a reference for another part of my life). They commented on my clinician evals, working well with others (I was a trainer at the time, not a chief yet), how my performance ranked with my peers. I considered it more useful than if I asked any of the MDs to write one.

And most of those folks saying that are referring to shadowing LORs - I've had this conversation plenty. My MD letter included all of the things you mention in yours, except that I was not a trainer because **** the protocols at ScribeAmerica, no way I would want to get involved more deeply in their organization. They violated at least 4 labor laws during my brief (1.5yr) stint with them and I had no desire to pretend it wasn't happening in order to get the same letter from them that I could get from the physician actually working side by side with me everyday, without the histrionics.

What I'm saying is, while it's obviously great if your location isn't managed by a bunch of overzealous folks trying to impress the corporate higher-ups by being as big of bullies as the company wants them to be and ignoring the needs/rights of the standard scribe...not all places are like that. Scribing, as an industry, thrives on seeing how much **** premeds will put up with for the experience, and often the answer is "all of it." If your location is more like the latter description, all I'm saying is that you don't have to deal with management much after your training, and you can reap most of the benefits of scribing without doing so. Obviously if your organization is great, dive right in and get more involved with the management side...but if not, don't fret, it gets better once you don't have to talk to your manager every day (and in my opinion, is totally worth it).

 

[mehc012]

Reading the above comments and your story, I do have to say that it does seem like you are definitely in a sh**ty position right now. I do have a friend who just got hired recently and told me the EXACT same story as you, so I'm wondering if you don't happen to be the same person 😉.

My 2 cents;

I have to sort-of disagree with the blanket statement that all chief scribes are "bitter failures".

I hope it wasn't my comments which came across that way. I don't think that all chief scribes are bitter failures; I think that, in general, scribe companies promote this sort of nit-picky, bullying attitude (it goes hand in hand with the type of business they are trying to push) and if you don't have a really good manager/chief scribe, it's going to propagate right down the line. However, I don't deny that good managers/chief scribes exist - I had one, but she was a 'Co-chief scribe' which basically meant the 'real' Chief scribe made her do the clerical work like schedules, etc and she helped with training, but the 'real' Chief Scribe retained most of the authority and continued to pass along the corporate bullying without question. The 'good' Co-chief, when she wasn't boxed out, always found ways of training/fulfilling the company requirements without being overbearing. It was an interesting dynamic.

RIn both yours AND their defense though, socializing is a huge part of the job BUT should be appropriate; You need to feel comfortable with your coworkers so there is nothing wrong with talking and asking questions, but the shoe thing is still kind of weird.

Weird of the Chief Scribe, or weird of OP? Because that seems like a perfectly normal social interaction to me, along the lines of "did you get a haircut?" or "wow, those are awesome scrubs." That's...that's just small-talk. The only way I would see that as worthy of criticism is if the recipient of the comment was really busy and OP was basically interrupting their work/thought process for small-talk (which happens all the time in the ER especially, and come to think of it is probably the most reasonable explanation for this otherwise bizarre interaction.

Wasting time; Their comment about wasting time did have some merit. Unless there are ZERO patients and the ER is completely empty, there is always work to do. It happens to everyone though, and was one of the biggest criticisms against myself when I was a trainee. The idea is that you should be looking out for labs, imaging, and reviewing previous patient visits to update the doc. It's outside of your scope of practice to suggest diagnoses or make suggestions for treatment options, but if you dig through a patient's history/ previous visits, you can find significant information that the doc might not immediately find.

It's true that there is always something more you could do, but in a 12hr non-stop shift, let's not pretend that it's irresponsible to take a few minutes of downtime here and there. The docs certainly do. As long as your charts are being completed thoroughly you're doing your job...if you go above and beyond and find things that the docs don't (and if you have downtime to be sifting charts with a fine-toothed comb, they typically do as well, since you go with them on patient visits and they don't have as much charting outside the room...they may choose not to, but it's a choice) then it's exactly that: above and beyond. And yes, training should encourage that, but it shouldn't beat people about the head for what are, quite frankly, extras...especially when paying minimum wage. More likely, OP just hasn't been in the game long enough to realize that they were not, in fact, on top of everything, so it wasn't really 'downtime', since I'm surprised to hear anyone say they have much downtime in their first few weeks scribing. Then again, lulls happen.

In the end, if you decide to keep the job, keep your head down and just do what the trainer asks of you. There is plenty of time to develop your own style once you are working independently, but while you're training you are going to be trained to use the same style as the trainer. If you have any questions about scribing feel free to send me a message. I can go into more detail for different aspects of training and give you some feedback from a trainer's point of view.

100% on this...training is definitely useful, but you have to play the game. Do what you're told at that point and learn from the feedback...and then make your own evaluation of which tips helped and which were ridiculous. Use that to develop your own style, being very aware of subtle feedback from your docs. I liked to listen to/watch them go through my charts at the end, once I was fast enough to have the time. The goal is that they shouldn't have to update anything except the doc-only sections (DDx, Rx, thought process, etc.) ¡Buena suerte a OP!

 

[mehc012]

-Chief scribes: The scribe business is definitely a sketchy one in my opinion, seeing as our job is technically to increase reimbursement and get the charts coded at the highest possible level, and generally the permanent chief scribes tend to be the ones who are most "compliant" with company policy. Sort of like the "let me see your manager" mom-types, so oftentimes they are bitter at the successes at others for sure. I didn't mean to say I disagreed, more like half-agreed since they do tend to be those applying for multiple cycles and/ or never getting in.

No, see, I'm hoping I didn't come across as saying that they're bitter at all...I don't remember ever saying that.

-Down-time: I agree that the down-time thing is more important during the training period. A trainee should always be reviewing the charts, asking questions, exploring the medical record, and overall checking in to make sure that imaging and labs are back. I acknowledge that all of us slack off terribly once we are working solo, but during training, just like with any other job, if you have someone directly supervising you throughout the shift the last thing they want you to do is catch you looking at your phone and browsing the internet.

I don't think what I described above qualifies as 'slacking off'. Yeah, you have to try harder during training, but a) I honestly think that brief brain breaks keeps you more productive over the shift as a whole and b) sorry, but their $7.25 an hour or whatever they pay here gives them the right to demand 110%, constant, non-stop focus...you do the job and if you choose to go above and beyond (which you should for your own sake and the doc's), it's a choice. After all, the docs usually could dig through the back charts and find those tidbits you unearth, they have more time than you...but they often don't.

-Shoes: I just find the shoe thing weird because there is a lack of context. I've had the docs compliment me on my outfits and shoes working in outpatient offices, but that's because I dress up for that haha. But I'm sitting trying to imagine a trainee who has (presumably) never met this other scribe randomly complimenting someone their shoes in the ER, and no matter how I look at it it seems out of place. Possibly something I'd snap at a trainee for and say "Get back to work", but likely not say "Don't compliment them!". It mostly just strikes me as awkward/ random.

Well, trust me, it can be perfectly in place. Maybe they had cool shoes. I compliment people's shoes all the time, even folks I don't know super well, or at all. And if you'd snap at the trainee for a single sentence of 'not working' (unless, as I said last time, they're interrupting someone else's work/flow or actively ignoring the doc)...frankly, that'd be ridiculous.

 

[Im76at711]

hey guys just an update. I was not scheduled for April either. I ended up sending a very strong worded email threatening them of contacting local attorneys regarding unlawful action against an employee. Received a call one day later saying I was terminated due to "lack of progress on assesments quizzes"

I am consulting an attorney soon.

 

[mehc012]

hey guys just an update. I was not scheduled for April either. I ended up sending a very strong worded email threatening them of contacting local attorneys regarding unlawful action against an employee. Received a call one day later saying I was terminated due to "lack of progress on assesments quizzes"

I am consulting an attorney soon.

Damn, that sounds a bit extreme...lot of effort and money to put forth for a job you never actually got started with. What was the unlawful action?
Personally, I tend to just point out inappropriate behavior by the company *as if they weren't aware*, keeps them from getting aggressively defensive. Like "sorry, you probably didn't realize but these actions/directions violate labor laws, which is why I'm not following them." In that case, they tend to not enforce whatever unenforceable order they gave you, or update company policy, because if they push it/mention it again it could cause trouble, but you aren't actually causing problems yet. Once lawyers get involved, seems like everyone has problems. Best of luck to you, I suppose.

 

[FutureFloridaDr]

hey guys just an update. I was not scheduled for April either. I ended up sending a very strong worded email threatening them of contacting local attorneys regarding unlawful action against an employee. Received a call one day later saying I was terminated due to "lack of progress on assesments quizzes"

I am consulting an attorney soon.

Unlawful action against an employee? You mean since you weren't scheduled for a month?
But, I'm not surprised that the shady scribe companies would do something like that anyways tbh.

 

[Im76at711]

Unlawful action against an employee? You mean since you weren't scheduled for a month?
But, I'm not surprised that the shady scribe companies would do something like that anyways tbh.

attorney said i have a case since i received retaliation after complaint of discrimination.

these ****ers tried to fire someone else so they don't seem like they "only fired me" what a bunch of bitches

 

[mehc012]

attorney said i have a case since i received retaliation after complaint of discrimination.

these ****ers tried to fire someone else so they don't seem like they "only fired me" what a bunch of bitches

So...if the unlawful action was the firing, what was the unlawful action they took before you threatened legal action the first time?

 

[Im76at711]

So...if the unlawful action was the firing, what was the unlawful action they took before you threatened legal action the first time?

discrimination. but attorney said that was going to be a hurdle since nothing was in writing or witnessed. I am still unclear about whether or not that will matter since they responded to discrimination allegations by firing me. He said that might be actionable.

 

[Neutropix]

Good job for sticking up for yourself if everything you've said thus far is true and accurate.

 

[Im76at711]

Good job for sticking up for yourself if everything you've said thus far is true and accurate.

Thank you. I am telling you. Its a conspiracy,lol . I refuse to be let this one go. I am going to try and try and try and TRY. until August comes. then I must stop trying. haha

 

[Neutropix]

Thank you. I am telling you. Its a conspiracy,lol . I refuse to be let this one go. I am going to try and try and try and TRY. until August comes. then I must stop trying. haha

Just look in your mirror every morning and say bad azz s****. I don't know you're gender, but if you're a dude slick your hair back and pick up a casual cigar habit. JUST DO IT!

 

[Im76at711]

Honestly taking legal action seems a bit extreme, especially with this being fora job you didn't need in the first place since you got accepted to school...

Also, this case can be pretty weak, seeing as the termination sounds like it was a matter of performance issues from their perspective. I would assume that they have set performance guidelines that you failed to meet (even if YOU feel that you were doing well). If they stick to their guns and claim that it was all performance related, they wouldn't be dumb enough to not keep documentation of your performance reviews AND quizzes/ tests. This isn't legal advice so please don't take it as such, more of a "What is there to gain from proving in court that you were a good scribe, they just hated you" case.

Lastly, an employment discrimination case could be pretty long and drawn out. You don't want this to affect you leaving for school since you can't exactly just "drop the case" if it ends up taking longer than expected...

lol thanks. decided to just let it go. I got enough on my plate as it is. don't need the stress of this adding on to it.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

This is one of the biggest reasons I turned down a job at a scribing company. There were too many gunner personalities, even in the interview setting. I also really pissed off the interviewer by asking the innocuous question of "what made you choose to pursue scribing" which resulted in this long rant about how they thought the medical school application system was rigged and they decided after a failed cycle to focus on scribing because it was more rewarding.

Everyone here is telling you to tough it out. In a way, sure, that argument has some merit, since you will have to experience it at some point in your life if you get through medical school. But be aware of who you think you have to take crap from. In my experience, every chief scribe I go to school with is a straight up sociopath that is set on killing the dreams of others because deep down inside they know they are inadequate. n=3 but after reading other posts in here, it appears to be a common theme. I also couldn't stand the smug attitude they have about being a chief scribe, as if it was their golden ticket into medical school and no other EC would ever be on the same level.

My advice, quit and do something where you don't have to take a bunch of BS from other pre-meds who barely make over minimum wage.

You should have stuck with it. Some of the doctors I've scribed for said Scribing is like 3rd year at med school and wished they had early clinical exposures. Who cares about their gunner personalities. Focus on you and learn to play the "naive" role aka "fake it to you make it."

My scribe trainer is a gunner and she is always trying to size me up by asking questions about myself. I told her a bunch of lies and made myself inferior to her -- did it on purpose. In return, she didnt see me as a threat and helped tremendously throughout my training period.

Gunners will not help those that are a threat, but they will help those in need.

Actually, I worked in so many EDs with so many clinicians (MD, DO, NP, PA), I did get the "company" management to write my LOR. Like a lot of folks say on SDN, MD LOR are considered Fluff. I had a very strong management letter (they sent me a draft when they submitted, as it was a generic LOR, they wanted me to have it if I needed a reference for another part of my life). They commented on my clinician evals, working well with others (I was a trainer at the time, not a chief yet), how my performance ranked with my peers. I considered it more useful than if I asked any of the MDs to write one.

+1.... Former ED scribe, I had 1 MD physician call one of the schools I applied to and advocated for an interview. Months later, I got that interview.

hey guys just an update. I was not scheduled for April either. I ended up sending a very strong worded email threatening them of contacting local attorneys regarding unlawful action against an employee. Received a call one day later saying I was terminated due to "lack of progress on assesments quizzes" I am consulting an attorney soon.

Did you finish your assessment quizzes? Or pass them?

Thank you. I am telling you. Its a conspiracy,lol . I refuse to be let this one go. I am going to try and try and try and TRY. until August comes. then I must stop trying. haha

Sounds like my evil ex trying to sabotage my life before med school.

lol thanks. decided to just let it go. I got enough on my plate as it is. don't need the stress of this adding on to it.

Either you go in 100% or none at all. You should have just quit the job from the beginning and save urself from all the stress and BS. But hey, you probably like the drama.....

 

[takeurmeds02]

lol thanks. decided to just let it go. I got enough on my plate as it is. don't need the stress of this adding on to it.

I see you got in! Don't know if that was the case when you first posted? lol

 

[Im76at711]

I see you got in! Don't know if that was the case when you first posted? lol

ive been admitted sine october. granted none of my acceptances thus far have been to my top choices haha

 

[takeurmeds02]

The gunners are strong in the ER that I tech in.
STRONG... Like bringing MCAT books to work strong.


Btch plz

Wait hahaha I did this! But in my defense I was working almost full-time because I need the job to supplement my living expenses and some of my bills. I just saw it as killing two birds with one stone ;p

 

[frosted_flake]

Wait hahaha I did this! But in my defense I was working almost full-time because I need the job to supplement my living expenses and some of my bills. I just saw it as killing two birds with one stone ;p

But were you snooty about it? muahaha that is what got me!

 

[takeurmeds02]

ive been admitted sine october. granted none of my acceptances thus far have been to my top choices haha

Oh yea, I def missed that tidbit when you first started the thread. Yea, eff it man. You're already in. Someone else mentioned the experience but honestly, it means a lot more when you haven't been accepted. You'll learn all the same **** in due time. Grats on getting and grats on clearing your plate and eliminating the stress.

 

[takeurmeds02]

But were you snooty about it? muahaha that is what got me!

No lol. I was very "under the radar" about it haha. Until my chief told me I couldn't do it anymore...even though I clearly was beasting my charts and had multiple physicians praise my work...but w/e

 

[moisne]

I went home expecting her to praise me in the review email.

Well that was foolish

this guy I trained with is just of a ****ing dickwad knit picker as she is.

Welp.

I think if you are already accepted - either quit or stop whining about it and take it as training for 3rd year when you will be expected to kiss ass 😀

 

[Im76at711]

I

Well that was foolish

Welp.

I think if you are already accepted - either quit or stop whining about it and take it as training for 3rd year when you will be expected to kiss ass 😀

I got fired!

 

[moisne]

I got fired!

Oh .. lol... You say it with so much energy...