Am I kidding myself?

[fiznat]

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Hey everyone, I would really appreciate whatever input I can get on this.

I am 26 years old, a nontraditional applicant in that I graduated from Boston University with a degree in philosophy and psychology, and then worked in EMS as a paramedic for 6 years following college. While working as a medic I have completed my post-bacc requirements for medical school at a local university, but I am concerned that I didn't do well enough to be considered.

The problem is, my AMCAS GPA and school GPA differ significantly because I had to retake Physics II twice. The first time I got an F, the second time a D, and the third time I got an A-. My other grades are all in the B and A range, but those two physics classes are really killing me. The university calculates my (post-bacc) GPA at about 3.5, but my AMCAS is way down at 2.76. My undergraduate GPA was terrible as well at about 2.6.

All along I have thought that I could make up for my undergrad GPA with a very strong MCAT and a good showing in post-bacc, but this AMCAS calculation has really got me thinking that I might have put myself out of the running.

I'd like to hear what you guys think. Should I bother spending thousands of dollars and a year of my time to prep for the MCAT? Will my GPA throw me out of consideration regardless of what score I get? I'm talking about the (legitimate) Caribbean schools as well. I have a strong desire to be a physician based on my considerable medical experience, and I am quite sure that I would be unhappy as a PA.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Perrotfish]

I think at this point tht the Caribbean is your only legitimate shot without way more than a year of getting ready for medical school. Outside of the Caribbean, what you would need to do it bring your ENITRE GPA (not just your post-bac GPA) up to a 3.0, which would probably involve 2 years of work, and then you would need to do an SMP. So probably 3 years before your application cycle and 4 years before you actually start, unless of course you get a high enough MCAT score to get into an SMP with just a 2.8 in which case you would only need 2 years of basically full time prep work. A single year of really top notch work MIGHT barely make you competitive for PA school, but not medical school.

The Caribbean, though, might take you as early as next fall if you get a high enough MCAT, even the big 4 schools. If you want a more official opinion, call them directly: unlike US ADCOMs they should be happy to talk to you. SDN also has a Caribbean forum. The problems with the Caribbean, of course, are>

1) They can drop you from the school if you fail so much as a single course or fail the boards a single time. Are you 100% sure, for example, that the incident the incident with Physics won't repeat itself when you take physiology? There are people in my medical school that have never gotte less than a B on anything that failed one block of medical school. They're in a US school so all that means is some embarassment and a remediation exam, but for you it could be the end of the line. Find out what the schools' policies are about failing classes, BTW.

2) Even if you pass, that doesn't mean you can get a residency. About half of Caribbean grads already don't, and that number is going to drop significantly in the next few years. Simply put, the kind of marginal student that would have easily gotten a residency from a US medical school may very well be unemployable coming from the Caribbean.

3) If you fail you will NEVER be able to get rid of that debt (you can't even bankrupt your way out of it). You will really be betting the farm on the completely unconfirmed assumption that, though you were a 2.6 student in your undergrad and a 2.8 student in your post bac, you are capable of performing on a level with 3.7 students. Do you have a good reason to believe that?

My advice would be to consider the Caribbean if you're single or married but childless, but definitely think long and hard about the downsides. If you have kids my opinion is that this is too risky to bet their futures on, and you should either focus on the long road to a US medical school or an alternate career.

Just one medical students opinion. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

 

[DrMidlife]

I strongly recommend looking at DO schools, because they forgive repeated grades in GPA calcs. See the osteo and pre-osteo forums to get up to speed. DOs can do any specialty that MDs can do, 60% do "MD" residencies, and DO practice rights are equivalent to MDs.

Personally, DO wouldn't be (and wasn't and isn't) my first choice, but I'd absolutely choose it over the Caribbean.

Any way you go, the 3 most important numbers are your cumulative undergrad overall GPA, your cumulative undergrad science GPA, and your MCAT. (Cumulative means you just average your postbac in with your undergrad.) The way I see it, numbers can get you an interview, and everything else can get you past the interview.

Coming off a rough prereqs experience, I'd be very concerned about scoring well on the MCAT. And against a rough cumulative GPA, that MCAT score is everything. In your shoes I'd take a practice test on e-mcat.com, for free, right away, to see what's in store for you in prep work. Forewarned == forearmed.

I expect that your best move would be to find an SMP that includes MCAT prep, most likely at a DO school. I wouldn't do an MD school SMP with a sub-3.0, personally: if you're dead set on US MD, then you have a few more years of undergrad before an SMP makes any sense.

Best of luck to you.

 

[RaiManX16]

Hey this is my first post guys, I have been a long time reader. Just want to give a big thank you to all these people on these boards who are so helpful.

Anyway, in regards to the OP, lets say she does really well on the MCAT (im talking about 35+)...What if she applied super early to EVMS SMP? Could she make it?

 

[NewmansOwn]

If DO schools forgive retaken classes, that is indeed your best best as Midlife suggested. That kind of AMCAS GPA would leave you, I would venture to guess, hopeless for US MD schools. The Caribbean is an option, but an expensive, problematic and stigma-laden one. If your goal is an EM residency, it will be extremely difficult from a Caribbean medical school -- not impossible, but awfully hard.

Also, you don't need to spend thousands of dollars and a full year to prepare for the MCAT. I got a very good score using the Exam Krackers books (~$80 on eBay), a few AAMC practice tests ($35 each) and around 8 weeks of prep time and I am nowhere near a natural at these subjects. Many others have done even less work and done better than I.

 

[deleted248403]

I expect that your best move would be to find an SMP that includes MCAT prep, most likely at a DO school. I wouldn't do an MD school SMP with a sub-3.0, personally: if you're dead set on US MD, then you have a few more years of undergrad before an SMP makes any sense.

Hey Fiznat - good to see you back on the board. I agree with DrMidlife, unfortunately you are a long way from being competitive for MD. An SMP is your best bet.
I'm not sure on the importance/significance of it being at an MD or DO school but Tufts/BU/UMDNJ all have SMP programs. There are some DO programs in the Philly area from what I remember.
Good luck man

 

[DrMidlife]

Anyway, in regards to the OP, lets say she does really well on the MCAT (im talking about 35+)...What if she applied super early to EVMS SMP? Could she make it?

Sure, in theory, assuming the OP's overall GPA gets up to 2.75. You'd have to ask EVMS how many 2.75ish candidates they let in.

I hate to see people get excited about a plan that revolves around a stellar MCAT score when that score isn't in hand.

 

[mic2377]

I would recommend DO schools. It is certainly in reach to become an EM doc as a DO - no barriers there. I could also suggest an SMP but many screen at a 2.75 or 3.0 minimum undergrad GPA.

Also, did you take a practice MCAT? That would be helpful information as well.

One other idea is to do one of the MS or SMP programs at a DO school. They may be somewhat easier to get into than the top-shelf SMP programs, such as U-Cinn or Georgetown, and have some linkage with the school in question. This is highly dependent on the school, of course.

For MCAT prep, just get a bunch of books and get down to it. It doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars. Whatever you do, take as many practice exams as you can!