Am I making a mistake?

[jpeterman13]

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Hi everyone (if this is in the wrong section, don't hesitate to yell at me)
It's great to be reading about how everyone has gotten into the schools that they wanted. As for me, I have applied/interviewed at Ross University SVM and should be hearing from them in the next few weeks. I have heard great things about Ross and think that I would do well there, but I think that I have convinced myself that I have no shot at being accepted in the US...and I need to know if my thoughts are well founded.
Here are the grades:
Cum. GPA= 3.26
Science (pre-req) GPA= ~3.45
Last 45 credit hours= 3.93
Verbal= 500 (I've only taken the GRE once, but I don;t know how much better I would do...or if it would matter)
Quantitative= 560
Analytical= 4.5
I've got roughly 100 hours of experience in a small animal clinic and have 2.5 years of original research completed.
When I look at the statistics that each school gives on the sites, I always fall right in the middle or slightly shy of that. Has anyone ever heard of someone with a weak profile such as this who got into a US school?
Would I be making a bad decision by accepting an offer from Ross without trying other schools?
My state school (MSUCVM) is really hard to get into (esp. with my grades) so I'd be relying on out of state schools and the applicant pools are so "cutthroat" that I don't know if I should waste my time when I could just start up at Ross and be on my way to my degree.
Any suggestions or advice would be really appreciated. No matter what happens, I WILL get a DVM degree if it kills me haha 😎.
Thanks, and congrats again to all of the people in the classes of 2013!

 

[TSUJC]

What about waiting a year and getting more veterinary experience? I think your chances would be a little better if you had more experience.

 

[twelvetigers]

Consider for a minute what it means to be 'in the middle' for a second... doesn't that mean that approximately half of the accepted pool of applicants has stats/scores worse than yours? How is that a bad position to be in? I agree it's not ideal, but I won't agree that it's hopeless.

You'll never know how you fare with U.S. schools if you never try. But, if you're happy with Ross and can afford the tuition, there's nothing wrong with that either.

 

[meadow36]

You definately have the potential to get into a state school, maybe not this round but possibly for the next round. You need to work full time in a vet clinic and really ramp up that experience level, as well as pick up some hours of experience in more specialty areas like large animal, exotics or zoo med. I would also take 2 post-bacc classes per semester, in upper level science courses, and do well in them. This is something that saved my application (and if you check my stats you will see they were quite low).

So - you certainly have the beginnings of a doable application, it's all about whether or not you want to spend another year or two improving it. Think long and hard about Ross. Yes, it's a very good school, and I know some excellent docs that went there - but the tuition and fees have gone insane. Expect to come out with about $250K in debt, all told with living expenses and all. The nitty gritty truth is that veterinarians just DO NOT make enough money to cover the insane debt that some of these schools put you into. It is a horrible strain on DVM's after graduation that very few of them think about before they get started.

Just my $0.02. 🙂

 

[Nexx]

You are going to get a good education at Ross, I don't think anyone would argue that. Therefore if you do get in there you need to really ask yourself if it is worth not accepting their offer and waiting 1, 2, or possibly more years to get into a state school. It really would depend on your current earning potential (mine for instance was ~$30k) for each year you wait to get in. Whereas if I could get out sooner and make at least twice that it was worth going to a non-us school. Do the math on salary/cost of attendance and if you can handle the notorious rigor of Ross and don't mind the extra effort of the extra exam at the end and the $$ works out, then go for it.

 

[jglovicz]

What type of medicine are you interested in pursuing? If you want to do lab animal medicine and you've worked with mice/rats/rabbits/primates/etc. for the past 2.5 years, I don't necessarily think you need much more experience. Is that research going to earn you authorship in a publication?
If you want to pursue small animal medicine, adding some more hours won't hurt, and if you want to do livestock, well, you have some experience to earn. I think it's valuable to show that you have a variety of experiences, but I also am from the school of thought that you don't need a gazillion hours of vet experience...I believe that portion is to show the adcom that you understand what you're getting yourself into. I think it's more important to show that you will be a candidate that will complete the coursework in vet school with flying colors.
It's true that your cumulative GPA is on the low end, but your last 45 credit GPA is excellent...however, you could take some more upper division sciences if you feel that you still need to drive that point home.
How hard did you study for the GRE? Your score is fine, but maybe if you spend the summer studying you can get above average on the quantitative (my verbal even went up). I was in a similar boat and because my dad encouraged me (and paid for it), I took the Kaplan course...I don't think it's necessary to take a course, but it was a good way for me to keep on track.
Can you find a researcher within the vet school that could use some help in the lab? You are in a powerful position (since you have experience) to help out in the lab with someone that might be able to get their foot in the door for you...
I would recommend that you spend a few months studying the GRE (for better or for worse), and apply to some US schools. I really think you have a chance. You can always go to Ross as your backup if you need to. Iowa State, Ohio State, Kansas, and Western are a few schools off the top of my head that take a lot of out of state students. That said, your IS is competitive, but I would still apply (esp if you can get a LOR from someone affiliated with the vet school).
Just to clarify the point about Ross costing lots of $...I'm starting as OOS at Iowa State in the fall and the estimated cost of attendance (tuition + the cost to live) is $53K per year-if you took out the max possible loans you would end up with $212K in the hole (this is assuming that no price increases). So if you get in to Ross and really like the program, you really won't be far behind other OOS students.
Sorry, this is getting really long winded...takehome message: Apply to some state schools---with your last 45 credit GPA, you definitely have a chance (esp. if you explain away your poor grades in your early college career in your personal statement)). Also apply to Ross and keep that as your backup if you don't want to apply again. Good luck!

 

[jpeterman13]

Thanks everyone for the replies!
Finally someone actually understands the question that I'm asking (I'm was one of 2 pre vet students in my undergrad). If only I'd found this forum sooner.
It was my original plan to take post bacc classes (or get a master's) and work full time in a clinic round after round until I got in. Of course, I ran into walls:
- I live in MI, so out of the few jobs that are available. So few of them are in the veterinary field that they get snatched up by LVT's in an instant (I thought being male would help me out...but no dice). I then found out that with a B.S. in Biology there isn't really anything you can do with your degree besides go to a grad program. So now, I work at Hollister just to make money and volunteer as much as I can at a clinic, which is not often. It's basically horrible. In other words, my earning potential is low. I have a really generous family.
- I have tried to contact some 11 large animal/exotic veterianrians and about 4 places that don't have vets but I could still work with the animals. Noone called back after 3 followup calls. So that again limits my experience to small animal only, I can't seem to get any diversity.
-I talked to a LOT of schools (18 of them) and many of them said that since my last two years were so strong and filled with graduate courses that taking post-bac classes would help me out only slightly. That was pretty much mutual throughout all of the schools except Cornell (but I jsut called them for kicks). Plus, it seems that a lot of the schools wouldn't even consider the fact that I took such difficult classes throughout my undergrad. In retrospect, I should have taken the easy way to my degree. But that's not how I roll I guess.
-I don't know if my research is going to help me at all which sucks because I worked on it for awhile, and I thought it would look good.
The problem that Nexx pointed out is I think one of the huge factors that I'm struggling with. If I tack on the cost of living for the 1 or two years that I would have, should I wait, it sort of balances out a little bit. I have thoguht about the cost at Ross, and am worried. Really worried. But I crunched the numbers and with 1 year of living while I wait, tuition, and cost of living U of MN would be almost the same and Purdue would end up being more expensive (there are from the numbers that I have, they might be wrong). Your right meadow36, that is a HUGE strain to put on DVMs.
Nexx, you used the term "notorious rigor" when talking about Ross. Is it really know for being that hard?
Thanks again everyone, this is a huge help.

 

[Nexx]

I only mentioned that because there are some posts on these forums that the first year at Ross can be pretty harsh for people. It may be best for some of the Ross folks to come on and explain what has been said previously (perhaps msg zpinkpanther).

If I recall correctly they just treat first year as sort of a 'weed out year' I guess... Which since they also accept students with a typically lower GPA (and therefore may not be so focused in school) the first two semesters of adjusting and getting used to the increase in work load of vet school can mean a fairly large drop/fail rate for the class. Of course this is pure speculation on my part. Your grades seem to be fine... so I wouldn't imagine you having difficulty and as long as you are confident in your study skills I certainly wouldn't wait around for a US school as it probably isn't worth it in the long run.

There are heaps of things to consider (which I assume you have already) when going to a carib or overseas school that means many folks would opt to wait to get into a US school prior to choosing other options. But if you are at a point in your life where you are a) able to get into a vet program b) relatively few ties to the US for a few years c) can get the loans and d) don't mind living in a new culture then yeah... go for it. It surely isn't for everyone but if you fall into the categories I just mentioned it is worth it to not wait around just wasting time trying to play the US application game

 

[Caninerepro]

The only other thing I might add about Ross, since you seem to be into getting done sooner, is that Ross is a 3 year program with the last year back in the US. So, you would be done and out practicing a year earlier as well, increasing your lifetime potential income. I don't know if that is a factor but since you mentioned factoring in the year of working at Hollister...

 

[zpinkpanther]

Hi, and welcome to SDN! I'm currently attending Ross, so here's my $0.02...

I am currently trying to transfer back to a US school (have 2 schools left to hear from- ahhhh! ) not because I don't like Ross itself, but because I can't stand living on this island. Most people think I'm crazy, but I really just hate being away from home for most of the year, and the culture here is so different. Not everyone I know feels this way, although quite a few people do; I think it just depends on your personality. You know yourself, and you should be able to gauge whether or not that is something you could handle. I thought I could before I came here; I spent a semester in France, and was fine- but this is very different from France, which I didn't think of before deciding to come here. Bascially, I was just impatient to start vet school. 🙄

Another thing to think about is the fact that Ross isn't accredited. According to a recent article on AVMA's website, Ross has been denied for an evaluation visit that they requested this year, so although they're still working on it, we don't know how long it will be. One of my friends is transferring to Tufts (she just found out that she got in- YAY!) only because she wants to do wildlife conservation and the internships that she's looked at for that require that the applicants graduate from an AVMA-accredited school. She's actually kinda sad about it (as well as excited), because she really loves living here, but she also knows it's a great opportunity.

The "weeding out" is another concern. The first 2 semesters (especially 2nd semester- that's a nightmare) are VERY difficult. I've heard that they're harder on us than at a US school, but I really don't have anything to compare it to, so I honestly don't know for sure. But if you look at the numbers, they have no choice but to weed out people given how many people they admit. The average entering class is about 140, and I think the number they need to get down to by the time clinicals roll around is 80 or 90 (I could be wrong- please correct me if I am). My class started out in 1st semester with 137 and we're now down to 117 in 3rd semester; most of those were lost after 2nd. And we actually lost more people than it looks like because we've had people from the semester ahead of us stay back, too. 😱 I'm really not trying to scare you off. By some miracle, I haven't failed anything, so I'm sure you'd be fine. One of my friends here had a bad year in college that messed up her GPA (which was my situation, too), so this was the only place she could get in, but now she has a 4.0 and she's #1 in our class. So it's not impossible to do well if you work hard.

Okay, I really didn't mean to be so long-winded. Basically, the main concerns for me are: 1) being away from home (which, again, may not be an issue for you), 2) lack of accreditation, and 3) weeding out. I'm not discouraging you from coming to Ross; it's a good school and you'll get a good education. But I would strongly suggest trying to get into a US school, especially since your stats aren't restrictive of that. To be honest, I think if I could go back and do it again, I would have tried for a few more application cycles. So good luck with your decision! If you have anymore questions or want to talk, please feel free to IM me.

 

[zpinkpanther]

Oh! One more thing I forgot to mention. Ross's tuition looks cheap (I think $13000 per semester), but that's because it's per semester, and remember that you go year-round, so multiply that times 3 per year. Add that to the ridiculous cost of living here (a box of cereal can set you back the equivalent of $10 US! 😱), and I really don't think coming here is any cheaper than a US school. Also, you won't have time to work over the summers to save up some extra cash.

Okay, I'm really done now. 😀

 

[zpinkpanther]

The only other thing I might add about Ross, since you seem to be into getting done sooner, is that Ross is a 3 year program with the last year back in the US. So, you would be done and out practicing a year earlier as well, increasing your lifetime potential income. I don't know if that is a factor but since you mentioned factoring in the year of working at Hollister...

Just to clarify, it's really 3 and 2/3 years... we have 7 semesters on the island (2 and 2/3 years) and 3 semesters of clinicals at a US (1 year). So, my class here (those of us who don't repeat any semesters 🙁), which started here in Fall 2008 will graduate in December 2011/early January 2012, so we're only graduating one semester (a few months) before the people who started at the same time as we did in US schools. It's still 3 or 4 extra months of practicing, granted that both the Ross kids and the US school kids get a job immediately after graduation, but it's another thing to add into the weighing of the pros and cons.

Okay, I'm really done now, I swear. 😳

 

[ri23]

Consider for a minute what it means to be 'in the middle' for a second... doesn't that mean that approximately half of the accepted pool of applicants has stats/scores worse than yours? How is that a bad position to be in? I agree it's not ideal, but I won't agree that it's hopeless.

You'll never know how you fare with U.S. schools if you never try. But, if you're happy with Ross and can afford the tuition, there's nothing wrong with that either.

While this may be true about being in the middle, consider that you're not looking at a full application. Those people that have lower grades, probably make up for it with stellar experience and GRE scores. It is probably going to be difficult to get in with an application where everything is below average.

With that said, it doesn't look like the OP is in bad shape. It really looks like you have a positive GPA trend, which is good. I would recommend getting a GRE book, studying and retaking the GRE and also trying to get in as much experience as possible before apps are due. It's not always about quantity of experience, but quality; so if you can intelligently talk about your experience in an interview, that will go a long way. I think you should definitely try to apply to US schools before going to Ross.

 

[sumstorm]

I would study/retake GRE, invest time/energy into breadth/depth of experience (explore a couple of fields with some significant hours behind it, even if your interest is SA, take a look at different aspects of it like emergency, specialties, etc.), MAYBE do some upper levels post bacs (perhaps to broaden out your pre-reqs so you could apply to additional schools) but your last 45 and your pre-req GPA look ok...especially if you can offer a good reason for the lower cummulative GPA.

If you read through the successful applicant threads, it is amazing to see who got accepted and rejected at different schools.

One of the vets I work with was close friends in UG with a student who went to Ross. Both are successful practicing vets now. However, she said the impression she had was that in the school she attended in the states there was a lot more support for students in terms of providing assistance, guidance, counseling services, etc. I have no idea if it is true...one of those things that is hard to gauge if you haven't attended both...but that could be part of the 'weed out' concerns.

I think this is a very personal decision. At least one person on these forums was accepted to a US school and chose a carribean school instead. I do think there might be some hindrances (like internship/residency opportunities) but that may not be critical for you.

Also, I think/thought there might be differences in funding for the carribean schools, which may affect your decision. Don't forget that you will probably need to take an additional exam to practice in the states.

 

[jpeterman13]

Thanks again everyone. After thinking about it for awhile, and talking to a ton of people! I've got a pretty solid Pros/Cons list going. Money, Distance, Time, My personality...all being taken into consideration.

-What would everyone's opinion be if I were to consider Ross vs Tuskegee? (which is to my understanding, one of the more easier schools to get into, and they have this "limited accreditation" status on their web page which is IMPOSSIBLE to navigate.)

- What is everyone's opinion of Edinburgh? (I've found threads, but frankly, I've found them to be a bit confusing to put together).

I hear so many horror stories about people with far better scores than me getting put on the alternate list multiple times, or flat out denied multiple times...it's all so intimidating AHH !

zpinkpanther, thanks for all the advice, I sent you a PM. hope you got it .