Am I soulless?

[byurazorhog]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I work in an ED and today we received an infant on pediatric code blue. The little boy sadly did not survive his ordeal despite the medical staff's interventions. After the incident the mental health people organized an informal debriefing with those who had been present for the code so we could speak about our experience. I found that it greatly affected almost everyone from the nurses, including those who were not directly involved with the child's care, to the respiratory therapist and the ED techs. Several of them broke down in tears as they shared their feelings. While I felt sad and understand the life-changing loss for the bereaved family, I'm also somewhat disgusted at myself that I'm not affected at a deeper level by the infant's death. I've always considered myself a reflective, thoughtful person with the ability to empathize with others but today's loss was actually the 2nd in 1 week where I completely stopped feeling. I felt no pain, no great sorrow. It's almost as if I was so ready to accept death. I'm entering med school in the fall and I'm starting to wonder if I could ever become a truly compassionate physician. Heck I'm not even a compassionate human being.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Some break down and cry, some laugh hysterically( I'm unfortunately one of these people), and others seek refuge within deep thought and avoid the emotions. Everyone has different ways of coping/dealing with loss or sadness.

 

[Morzh]

I work in an ER, too. You are normal. You don't have to feel like crying every time something tragic happens. Some people are much more guarded emotionally than others, and that can vary day to day.

Even if it had been your own child, you may have been stone-faced stoic in the hospital and then merely numb for several days, or hysterical, or anything in between. There are no right or wrongs when it comes to grief and emotions.

 

[Maison]

The little boy sadly did not survive his ordeal despite the medical staff's interventions.

Did it drop any good loot.

 

[Dr Love]

I work in an ED and today we received an infant on pediatric code blue. The little boy sadly did not survive his ordeal despite the medical staff's interventions. After the incident the mental health people organized an informal debriefing with those who had been present for the code so we could speak about our experience. I found that it greatly affected almost everyone from the nurses, including those who were not directly involved with the child's care, to the respiratory therapist and the ED techs. Several of them broke down in tears as they shared their feelings. While I felt sad and understand the life-changing loss for the bereaved family, I'm also somewhat disgusted at myself that I'm not affected at a deeper level by the infant's death. I've always considered myself a reflective, thoughtful person with the ability to empathize with others but today's loss was actually the 2nd in 1 week where I completely stopped feeling. I felt no pain, no great sorrow. It's almost as if I was so ready to accept death. I'm entering med school in the fall and I'm starting to wonder if I could ever become a truly compassionate physician. Heck I'm not even a compassionate human being.

You're right. You are a terrible 'person' and should withdraw from med school immediately. Look into other professions that might be more suitable for someone as awful as you, like the anti-Christ or an insurance agent.

 

[bucks2010]

Some break down and cry, some laugh hysterically( I'm unfortunately one of these people), and others seek refuge within deep thought and avoid the emotions. Everyone has different ways of coping/dealing with loss or sadness.

😕 this, I don't understand.

 

[Gigantron]

Patients die.

Obviously that's a really crappy facet of medicine...but it happens. You're reaction is perfectly normal.

Now if one were to constantly (I emphasize the word 'constantly') break down and cry as an attending...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

😕 this, I don't understand.

Tell me about it... it's just one of the ways some people deal with stress.. it bubbles up and somatotizes.

 

[patel2]

Can't say I'm a big fan of the show, but here's a somewhat relevant clip to this thread

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z670uPomQkM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[CoolWhipp]

Some break down and cry, some laugh hysterically( I'm unfortunately one of these people), and others seek refuge within deep thought and avoid the emotions. Everyone has different ways of coping/dealing with loss or sadness.

I am too one of these people. It has created an uncountable number of awkward situations. Many times people think I'm not taking the situation seriously, which is not the case.

But hey, nice to know there are others 🙂

 

[skiing]

I felt no pain, no great sorrow. It's almost as if I was so ready to accept death. I'm entering med school in the fall and I'm starting to wonder if I could ever become a truly compassionate physician. Heck I'm not even a compassionate human being.

I'm pretty similar to you, but I still consider myself a compassionate human being. I accept death, and I'm not shocked by it or really moved or upset by it. In the past when I was younger I used to be so upset/shocked when someone died that I would cry a lot. I've come to accept death is just another passing, like a sunset (sunset/sunrise/sunset/sunrise... the cycle repeats, but I don't get scared of the dark everytime it comes). Now, I can't remember the last time I cried when someone I knew died. I think it's because I've gone through so many deaths that I'm just ... used to it (death) in a sense. Still, I care deeply about peoples' feelings. Maybe it's good you didn't break down in tears - think how distracting that must be if you felt that way every time a patient died.

I kind of rationalize this using the myers-briggs feeler/thinker theory... I test as 97% Thinking. Some people make decisions more based on their emotions... I'm more of a T. It's not necessarily a bad thing... it has nothing to do with how kind you generally are. It's just how you perceive certain things and others. http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/thinking-or-feeling.asp

 

[StephenMaturin]

I work in an ED and today we received an infant on pediatric code blue. The little boy sadly did not survive his ordeal despite the medical staff's interventions. After the incident the mental health people organized an informal debriefing with those who had been present for the code so we could speak about our experience. I found that it greatly affected almost everyone from the nurses, including those who were not directly involved with the child's care, to the respiratory therapist and the ED techs. Several of them broke down in tears as they shared their feelings. While I felt sad and understand the life-changing loss for the bereaved family, I'm also somewhat disgusted at myself that I'm not affected at a deeper level by the infant's death. I've always considered myself a reflective, thoughtful person with the ability to empathize with others but today's loss was actually the 2nd in 1 week where I completely stopped feeling. I felt no pain, no great sorrow. It's almost as if I was so ready to accept death. I'm entering med school in the fall and I'm starting to wonder if I could ever become a truly compassionate physician. Heck I'm not even a compassionate human being.

The other day this youngish guy came in with end stage cancer and in respiratory distress. His daughter, who was super nice, was there and the doctor had to talk her through a DNR decision, which they hadn't made yet. The guy ended up dying in the ED after a few hours, and then later I saw the doc crying a bit sitting next to me in the charting room.

It did make me sad, but apparently not too sad. At the end of the shift, the doc thanked me for my help and I said something idiotic like, "Thanks, I had a fun day!" I got to learn and do some new stuff, so honestly I did feel like it was a good day. Probably shouldn't have said that out loud though.

I felt like such a psychopath. Not sure if there is a moral to that story, but if it helps you're not alone.

 

[Astarael]

😕 this, I don't understand.

Laughing and crying are pretty similar, if you think about it. I'm not sure if there's a similar mechanism underlying each, but the actual act itself is very similar. I've had multiple times in my life where I felt something so strongly that the only choices were to laugh about it or cry about it-I always chose to laugh because I hate for people to see me being weak. I can totally understand how another person's reaction to a stressful situation might just be laughter.

 

[byurazorhog]

Can't say I'm a big fan of the show, but here's a somewhat relevant clip to this thread

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z670uPomQkM[/YOUTUBE]

Thanks! It's a good clip for those like me who might struggle with explaining how we feel in the face of loss. And thanks to everyone who have shared your opinions and experience. I love SDN in these moments.

 

[ladybug1122]

I work in an ED and today we received an infant on pediatric code blue. The little boy sadly did not survive his ordeal despite the medical staff's interventions. After the incident the mental health people organized an informal debriefing with those who had been present for the code so we could speak about our experience. I found that it greatly affected almost everyone from the nurses, including those who were not directly involved with the child's care, to the respiratory therapist and the ED techs. Several of them broke down in tears as they shared their feelings. While I felt sad and understand the life-changing loss for the bereaved family, I'm also somewhat disgusted at myself that I'm not affected at a deeper level by the infant's death. I've always considered myself a reflective, thoughtful person with the ability to empathize with others but today's loss was actually the 2nd in 1 week where I completely stopped feeling. I felt no pain, no great sorrow. It's almost as if I was so ready to accept death. I'm entering med school in the fall and I'm starting to wonder if I could ever become a truly compassionate physician. Heck I'm not even a compassionate human being.

I think I'm going through this as well. Before nursing school, I never realized people got so sick. I always knew about diseases but I never saw people with these diseases- EVER. In fact, I was astounded at the physical toll illness took on the body on my first day of clinicals. Fastforward 4 months later and I show no deep emotion upon seeing a dead body and hearing about the deaths of patient's I took care of. I think it's being desensitized to the surroundings to the point of not allowing yourself to react emotionally to these situations. Most importantly, I believe that you (and I) will run into situations you can emotionally relate to, which will force you to put your guard down and show true emotion....until you become desensitized again..lol
Also, I don't think this will make you less of a compassionate doctor 🙂

 

[Faol]

I have been in similar situations and have responded the same. As others have stated it is just one of the many ways to react to the situation. Some people may view you as cold but most will recognize that it's simply the way you cope with stress and not judge you negatively. Just be happy you're not one of those people that falls apart during a stressful event and stop worrying about whether you're some insensitive person because you dealt with a sad event in a way that works for you.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Your not soulless, I too work in an ER. Between there and the fire dept Ive seen a lot of crazy stuff like that. Its never fun. I think it just means youve become a little desensitized to all of this. It isnt necessarily a bad thing though. I remember back when i took EMT, everyone always said " remember, this isnt your emergency." I definitely want to be a compassionate Dr, and i feel like i have a lot of compassion. You just need to know when to use it.

When the shot hots the fan, you need to be able to remove yourself emotionally from the situation to get the job done. People who get too emotionally involved in situations like that can't focus on everything thats going on. In EMS we kinda call this having blinders on. For example, lets say a crew gets toned out for a major bus accident. When they get there there are just bodies everywhere. They're so focused on that, when they rush to the scene they fail to notice the downed power lines that the bus hit.

I know i sound cold right now, and i swear im the nicest guy youll ever meet, but you have to remember that being a Dr is still a job. You have to be able to not let your emotions get in the way of getting the job done.

 

[Telekinesis]

Your not soulless, I too work in an ER. Between there and the fire dept Ive seen a lot of crazy stuff like that. Its never fun. I think it just means youve become a little desensitized to all of this. It isnt necessarily a bad thing though. I remember back when i took EMT, everyone always said " remember, this isnt your emergency." I definitely want to be a compassionate Dr, and i feel like i have a lot of compassion. You just need to know when to use it.

When the shot hots the fan, you need to be able to remove yourself emotionally from the situation to get the job done. People who get too emotionally involved in situations like that can't focus on everything thats going on. In EMS we kinda call this having blinders on. For example, lets say a crew gets toned out for a major bus accident. When they get there there are just bodies everywhere. They're so focused on that, when they rush to the scene they fail to notice the downed power lines that the bus hit.

I know i sound cold right now, and i swear im the nicest guy youll ever meet, but you have to remember that being a Dr is still a job. You have to be able to not let your emotions get in the way of getting the job done.

I agree. As healthcare professionals we have to put our emotions aside. We don't have that luxury.

 

[kcin]

Did it drop any good loot.

Man that's so wrong (and you went on probation for it?), but I lol'd.

---

Sorry for the relatives of the child. You don't have to be super emotional to be a good doctor. People don't want a doctor that's going to breakdown and cry whenever something goes wrong.

 

[Suncrusher]

Did it drop any good loot.

hahaha



seriously though, sometimes really sad things in medicine don't affect me, and other times they do. Some other sad event will get to you and then you won't have this question anymore

 

[quiltlady]

I think that someday the OP will love someone deeply, a spouse or child. Someday he will witness a death or tragedy which reminds him of his own loved one. In that day, he will find himself less unmoved. At that time the dead or dying will no longer just be another stranger for whom he has no feeling, but someone who could have been his own nearest and dearest, and he probably will be more emotional and empathic. In the meantime, having no connection to strangers doesn't seem so odd to me.

 

[deleted357625]

crap happens, why should you cry? I wouldn't

Most people cry when it's someone they know or someone close. For some other people they cry whether they know the person or not. People are different.

 

[ladybug1122]

I think that someday the OP will love someone deeply, a spouse or child. Someday he will witness a death or tragedy which reminds him of his own loved one. In that day, he will find himself less unmoved. At that time the dead or dying will no longer just be another stranger for whom he has no feeling, but someone who could have been his own nearest and dearest, and he probably will be more emotional and empathic. In the meantime, having no connection to strangers doesn't seem so odd to me.

👍

 

[byurazorhog]

I think that someday the OP will love someone deeply, a spouse or child. Someday he will witness a death or tragedy which reminds him of his own loved one. In that day, he will find himself less unmoved. At that time the dead or dying will no longer just be another stranger for whom he has no feeling, but someone who could have been his own nearest and dearest, and he probably will be more emotional and empathic. In the meantime, having no connection to strangers doesn't seem so odd to me.

This is a point that was brought up during our briefing. Some of the nurses said whenever they heard a code being announced for pt's of a certain age or demographic, they would worry that it might be their family members.

 

[senorsquishie]

The mere fact that it bothered you enough to post about it shows that you care. If you were souless and had no compassion then you would have already forgot about it. Crying doesn't prove compassion, caring does.

 

[Geekchick921]

I think that someday the OP will love someone deeply, a spouse or child. Someday he will witness a death or tragedy which reminds him of his own loved one. In that day, he will find himself less unmoved. At that time the dead or dying will no longer just be another stranger for whom he has no feeling, but someone who could have been his own nearest and dearest, and he probably will be more emotional and empathic. In the meantime, having no connection to strangers doesn't seem so odd to me.

This. You worded this much better than I could have, too.

 

[nlax30]

I agree. As healthcare professionals we have to put our emotions aside. We don't have that luxury.

While I'm not sure you meant it this way, I don't think that we have to totally "put our emotions aside". Like everything else, there is a balance that's needed and IMHO problems arise when you get on either extreme. Completely cutting of emotion prob isn't the best as a clinician, and neither is constantly letting emotions get the best of you which can cloud your judgment and just mentally drain you.

As you go on you will just strike the balance for yourself. I've been in numerous tragic situations where emotionally I really wasn't move that much, and then there have other times where, even if not as "tragic" to some, it just hit me out of left field for whatever reason.

 

[Telekinesis]

While I'm not sure you meant it this way, I don't think that we have to totally "put our emotions aside". Like everything else, there is a balance that's needed and IMHO problems arise when you get on either extreme. Completely cutting of emotion prob isn't the best as a clinician, and neither is constantly letting emotions get the best of you which can cloud your judgment and just mentally drain you.

As you go on you will just strike the balance for yourself. I've been in numerous tragic situations where emotionally I really wasn't move that much, and then there have other times where, even if not as "tragic" to some, it just hit me out of left field for whatever reason.

Ture. I agree. I didn't totally mean it that way. I mean emotions can come in handy when you want to comfort someone. I meant we must have a handle on our emotions and not let them get the best of us, because chances are we won't save every patient that we have the opportunity to treat.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Agreed. Theres a time and a place for everything. When the patient is on the table coding, you dont have the luxury to get caught up in your emotion. You have to take charge and do something. When telling someone they have cancer or that their loved one died, you need to be compassionate and tactful. Its all about balance as nlax said.

 

[StudyShy]

Personally, I can place anyone of my children in the position of a dead child. This makes me instantly sad. I have seen many pediatric deaths over the years, and it has become harder for me to work in the same area since I have become a mother. Children affect me more than the elderly currently.

I am not looking forward to miscarriages, stillborns, and the like but I will have to face my worst fears eventually. Be fortunate that these things aren't bothersome for you, but also be aware that as you mature and have a family yourself, you may become more emotionally vulnerable to the death of certain members of our population.

My friend's father died in our ER. She will never work in the ER again afterward. You never know where life will take you.

 

[Telekinesis]

I am guessing that you are without children. Every time I see a little kid or a baby super sick or dying, I put my kid in that kid's shoes. I don't break down in tears or anything, but it does affect me greatly.

Is something wrong with you? I don't know, maybe. There are people who are incapable of feeling empathy for others. Perhaps you are one of those people. The only way you would know would be if you had a psych eval. But even then, what would you do with that information? Would it change your life's course? If not, then just deal with it. I'm sure there are physicians with anti-social personality disorder, etc.

Now that's low. To presume that the OP has a mental disorder just because they didn't get emotional. he OP understand that it is a sad occasion. Some people get numb, some get hysterical. People deal with their grief differently who are you to judge if someone is sane or not?

 

[Telekinesis]

I wasn't saying "Hey man! What's wrong with you?!?!" I was restating his question and then attempting to answer it. Like if my wife said to me, "Does my hair look funny?" and I say "Does your hair look funny? No I think it looks fine." Not like "Hey kid! You're psycho!"

Anyway, I didn't diagnose him. I'm not a psychiatrist. Maybe he does have some sort of difficulty feeling empathy for others. He wouldn't be the first person in the world to have that sort of disability. A family member of mine has Asperger's and he has trouble feeling empathy for anyone other than his dogs. Doesn't mean he's a sociopath. But I'm also not going to tell the kid he's perfectly normal for not feeling any sort of emotion after a baby died right in front of him. Maybe that's something he needs to explore within himself. Maybe that's something he should work on, feeling empathy for others. Just a thought. Sorry I wasn't cuddly enough.

Fair enough.

 

[searun]

I'm pretty similar to you, but I still consider myself a compassionate human being. I accept death, and I'm not shocked by it or really moved or upset by it. In the past when I was younger I used to be so upset/shocked when someone died that I would cry a lot. I've come to accept death is just another passing, like a sunset (sunset/sunrise/sunset/sunrise... the cycle repeats, but I don't get scared of the dark everytime it comes). Now, I can't remember the last time I cried when someone I knew died. I think it's because I've gone through so many deaths that I'm just ... used to it (death) in a sense. Still, I care deeply about peoples' feelings. Maybe it's good you didn't break down in tears - think how distracting that must be if you felt that way every time a patient died.

I kind of rationalize this using the myers-briggs feeler/thinker theory... I test as 97% Thinking. Some people make decisions more based on their emotions... I'm more of a T. It's not necessarily a bad thing... it has nothing to do with how kind you generally are. It's just how you perceive certain things and others. http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/thinking-or-feeling.asp

How would you feel if your kitten died right in front of you, just expired in your very presence?

 

[equios]

Give it a day or two, once the adrenaline wears off, you'll be worse off for wear. Seen it many times before.

That said, you had no connection to the infant, nor anything to relate it to (kids of your own, young siblings or relatives), so its unsurprising that it didnt affect you. You simply had no stake in this affair. Life is life, and it always ends in death.

 

[byurazorhog]

I wasn't saying "Hey man! What's wrong with you?!?!" I was restating his question and then attempting to answer it. Like if my wife said to me, "Does my hair look funny?" and I say "Does your hair look funny? No I think it looks fine." Not like "Hey kid! You're psycho!"

Anyway, I didn't diagnose him. I'm not a psychiatrist. Maybe he does have some sort of difficulty feeling empathy for others. He wouldn't be the first person in the world to have that sort of disability. A family member of mine has Asperger's and he has trouble feeling empathy for anyone other than his dogs. Doesn't mean he's a sociopath. But I'm also not going to tell the kid he's perfectly normal for not feeling any sort of emotion after a baby died right in front of him. Maybe that's something he needs to explore within himself. Maybe that's something he should work on, feeling empathy for others. Just a thought. Sorry I wasn't cuddly enough.

Wow, so I may have Asperger's is what you're suggesting. 😕 I hope you don't become a psychiatrist or our society will have a lot more people walking around with so-called mental disorders. It's not like the problem of over-diagnosis isn't already afflicting us. Pretty much every patient who walks into the ED these days are said to have "anxiety and depression" according to their medical records even though they may look and act no different than you or me.

 

[Dr Oops]

dont worry most pre meds dont have souls, or gingers for that matter

 

[MonsterHospital]

everyone responds differently to tragedy. you may have even been in shock. in a way it's good that you're not overly emotionally affected because that can make this career far more difficult.