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Am I stupid?
Started by PiggyPug6
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I would apply DO now as opposed to delay for MD, but it's your money either way
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like I said, your money
With the smp, you pay and you have no leverage with regard to financial aid for med school. I believe you should give a shot to MD & DO this year. Work & make some money during this gap year, too.
What about doing the fee waiver? You should be eligible.
You can definitely be competitive for an MD school. Apply whenever you have sufficient funds to support the application process.
Concur with LizzyM and Grapo. What community do you represent?
So I am going to be blunt and honest. My advice is to apply this year with a focus on DO and select MD programs. Especially if you can get your app in ASAP. If becoming a physician is your end goal, every year that you are not a physician but working toward that goal is an eventual loss of a year's worth of physician salary.
Additionally, worrying about losing out at the opportunity of competitive specialties if you go DO should not be your concern. Unless the only thing you ever wanted to do is Ortho, Derm, ENT, or Plastics (all which are very competitive for great MD students as is) and you would rather not be a physician if you could not match in one of those. Finally, if past performance is any indicator of future performance (and it usually is to some degree), then the really competitive specialties would be most likely out of your reach even in a MD program. Them the breaks.
Bottom line. Apply DO this year and do what it takes to apply. The several hundred dollars to submit apps is nothing compared to the debt you will generate during school and is even less to your income once you are practicing. Time is of the essence.
Additionally, worrying about losing out at the opportunity of competitive specialties if you go DO should not be your concern. Unless the only thing you ever wanted to do is Ortho, Derm, ENT, or Plastics (all which are very competitive for great MD students as is) and you would rather not be a physician if you could not match in one of those. Finally, if past performance is any indicator of future performance (and it usually is to some degree), then the really competitive specialties would be most likely out of your reach even in a MD program. Them the breaks.
Bottom line. Apply DO this year and do what it takes to apply. The several hundred dollars to submit apps is nothing compared to the debt you will generate during school and is even less to your income once you are practicing. Time is of the essence.
The way you worded this questions reminds me of George Carlin's rant on euphemisms.
I don't think that you need the SMP. Start applying now! Contact the Admissions Dean at U Penn to ask if you're competitive there. TCMC is also heavy into service, I hear.
Why would you have to take 2 years off if you dont apply this year?
I honestly think you have a shot at getting an MD acceptance if you apply now and broadly. Even if you don't apply this year, i don't think you need the SMP or postbac. Especially if you didn't make below a B in any major science class.
If you are an African American URM, take a look at this.
You will probably get into a MD school based off of hard statistics. These are from AAMC for the 2014 entering class and 2015 entering class.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
You have an 88.4 percent chance of getting accepted into 1 MD school. Apply now and get in. Do not do this SMP.. Its totally not worth it for your scenario. Save the money.
Please excuse me while I go cry a river after I look at the respective Asian Chart.
You will probably get into a MD school based off of hard statistics. These are from AAMC for the 2014 entering class and 2015 entering class.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
You have an 88.4 percent chance of getting accepted into 1 MD school. Apply now and get in. Do not do this SMP.. Its totally not worth it for your scenario. Save the money.
Please excuse me while I go cry a river after I look at the respective Asian Chart.
No, you aren't the only one to have trouble outside of school. But some peoples "trouble" is that they were trying to "find themselves" while blowing their rich parents money in an effort to piss them off,...compared to someone who had to work to give money to their family in an attempt to keep a roof over their heads. Both are "troubles"...yet very different. But, whether or not you choose to communicate which category of "troubles" you belong to is entirely up to you.
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That's true. I also really appreciate your help. Perhaps if schools ask me to explain any bad grades, I could mention my home struggles. I don't know if it will fit in my PS. Do a lot of schools give you room for that? I also did go through the underrepresented in medicine posts and it was really inspirational. I even found your posts about your journey. Thank you for that!
That's true. I also really appreciate your help. Perhaps if schools ask me to explain any bad grades, I could mention my home struggles. I don't know if it will fit in my PS. Do a lot of schools give you room for that? I also did go through the underrepresented in medicine posts and it was really inspirational. I even found your posts about your journey. Thank you for that!
This is just my opinion but..bad points in your app, like bad grades, will probably raise questions as to whether or not you would be a good candidate. Based on what they decide, they may or may not offer you a secondary/interview. But if you find a way to address these bad points in your PS or other area in your app, you may diminish the doubt before it has time to set in.
And I'm glad you enjoyed portions of my weird and self deprecating journey into medschool.lol
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Also, I completely understand if you don't have the money to apply this cycle. It's crazy expensive especially since you didn't apply for the Financial Assistance Program. If you feel that you can work and save up enough to apply broadly next cycle then go for it. But if in anyway you feel that you can afford to apply to at least 10-15 schools this cycle....I say do it.
I don't believe you need the SMP or Postbac
I don't believe you need the SMP or Postbac
ok -- are you likeable? if so, you're in.
the bottom line is that you've got a 31!! and are a URM. You can probably get into a "top-25" school if your interview goes well.
best of luck.
This^^^
Having a 31 as a URM is a giant giant plus factor. If I had even a 60 percent chance of getting into a MD school that would be great
You have a 88 percent chance according to hard stats produced by the AAMC. You dont have much to worry about here besides application fees etc.
You cant be horrid at interviews though... I doubt you are. Like doc05 says if you are likeable you are pretty much good to go.
Girl, get on that application train cause it's leaving the station as we speak. You'll do well based on your background. Now go worry about what to wear and what kind of makeup look you want to go for on interviews cause you'll get plenty.
Pitt is a reasonable reach but Temple and Jefferson are fine. Thanks to genetic your flaws are not hold to the same judgement as everyone else (at least in the medical school admission game). Take advantage and remember to be grateful for it.
People do it all the time, think trust fund babies. Now that doesn't make it right (by some people's standards) but we are talking about medical school applications where nothing is guaranteed so use everything that you possibly can to your advantage.
And btw, in addition to being URM, you also grew up disadvantaged so you deserve to be judged differently than applicants coming from affluent, privileged backgrounds.
Here's the catch -- to do what OP ought to do it's going to cost $. I think OP's stats give him/her a shot at an allopathic med school if s/he applies widely and broadly. If you are going to focus on 2-3 schools though, odds are never good. So if OP is asking "will I likely get into X school specifically", the answer is generally NO. If the OP is asking "If I send out a couple dozen applications to carefully selected med schools will I likely get something?" odds are considerably better.
I don't think the "you need to focus on DO" advice is necessarily right for OP, nor do I think the "don't worry about opportunities for competitive specialties" is right, although there's a kernel if truth to that -- while you probably shouldn't go to med school if you'd be unhappy not getting a specific competitive residency, I don't think the necessary corollary is to close that door when you don't have to. I also don't necessarily think a few med schools wouldn't get some comfort seeing OP successfully satisfy an SMP given several C's in the sciences, but agree that might be unnecessary if OP can apply widely. I also caution the notion that OP is "in" based on URM status -- while that certainly improves odds, I think you have to bear in mind that many of those minority applicants seen in statistics had numbers or circumstances that would have rendered their minority status irrelevant, and some went to in-state options not available to OP and the like, so of that X percent, maybe half were similarly situated to OP -- so don't get all knee jerk -- med school doesn't give that many free passes.
If I were you, I'd absolutely apply now. You sound like you definitely have a shot at an MD program and should get into a DO program.
A year or two of lost income is a lot of money combined with an unnecessary and expensive post bacc and you're looking at the down payment on a nice vacation home or college tuition for a few children.
A year or two of lost income is a lot of money combined with an unnecessary and expensive post bacc and you're looking at the down payment on a nice vacation home or college tuition for a few children.
You can do it!! The stats are exactly like mine except I didn't have research under my belt and I am not urm (the poverty thing is something that was on my app though). I had interviews early October and got an acceptance to an MD in October then another in November. It will be tough but you have some stats on your side. If you're feeling iffy about MD then why not apply to both MD and DO? The FAP helped me a lot this past cycle, in fact aside from travel and clothing expenses I paid a total of 130.50 for 15 applications. I'm not sure about any fee assistance with the AACOMAS apps however, maybe @Goro can help you with that? Good luck
Not sure I would go as far as saying "rendered their minority status irrelevant". The stats are what the stats are and we can sit here and talk about context and that's all well and good but be very careful trying to just explain away giant differences in med school admission stats across different races from a few simple factors.
Anyway that's the last I'm partaking in any race or AA discussions. Just wanted to point out the OP should not be looking at schools where their stats are well below average and say they have no shot like other races might; that would be uninformed decision making.
The rest of the advice in the post I quoted is on point and very solid. Apply when you can. Don't do an SMP/post-bac; if you don't get into a single med school your GPA won't be the primary reason.
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I totally disagree with the "rendered their minority status irrelevant" as well. Hard statistics have more credibility than opinions do.
We all know that o-chem is the course that most often trips up students so seeing a C or C+ in o-chem is not a big deal. Neither is one other grade < 3.0 It also does a lot to explain why your sGPA is on the low side. Your MCAT more than assures me you can do the work as long as you have good work habits.
Um, I'm not sure you guys read it correctly, or you are reading into my comment something I didn't actually say. I'm saying don't go down the "he's URM so he automatically gets a free pass" mentality, we often see on SDN, because frankly (a) a number of the minorities admitted over the years in fact got in on merit, and (b) a lot of those admitted got in at state schools that for OP might not be applicable. Those are true statements, meant to question the 88% admission rate referenced earlier in the post. I'm not saying URMs don't get advantage in the process but I'm saying its not what you'd think from reading SDN. First and foremost med schools want people who will pass the coursework, get boarded, get residencies. Diversity comes into play after that threshold analysis. most of the URM students you will come across in med school will be pretty solid, not questionable admissions.
Um I don't really see anything either me or Gandy said that implies URM's have a free pass. I'll leave it at that.
No medical school will admit someone they think is a real risk to have issues in med schools and on boards, that's hardly saying anything at all. I'm not going to turn this into an Affirmative Action flame war, the only reason I brought this up is because the OP was looking at school's stats and wondering if it was even worth applying being below their stats. In their case, it is for schools like Temple and Jefferson.
I'll just add about the threshold argument the data for what GPA/MCAT constitutes a decent chances of admission for med schools is different for different races. Have at that and interpret that as you will.
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LOL -- you said you'd leave it at that... But then didn't...
In terms of what you were saying about how it sounded like I was saying "URMS have a free pass" to you. Nobody was saying that or thinks that there's nothing more to it.
Just think of it as limited compensation for all the garbage you have gone, do go, and will go through as a black American, or the ungrateful racist patient or the dirty looks, or, as West Wing put it, halfhearted reparations for slavery. Or the fact that even when you're a physician some people will guess you're there to park their car
