AMA Matched IM Top 10 (w/o the typical Steps/Grades)

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Matched2020

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I wanted to provide some hope to upcoming applicants using this forum as a resource. Overall, I feel like the advice here is helpful, but sometimes gets caught up in the numbers aspect of an application. I agree that numbers are certainly important and can definitely screen you out of programs for an interview, but I managed to land my dream program despite not having the stats that seem to be so commonplace here. I convinced myself that my interview invite was a pity interview and that even if I ranked them #1, I couldn't possibly match.

I'd like to be as helpful as possible to others who might struggle with stats! Here's to the underdogs.

Application:
*Mid-tier applicant with 1 honors in clerkships (not IM), otherwise mainly HPs, third quartile.
*Very low Step 1, much improved Step 2 but still below average for this program.
*Strong LORs from longstanding relationships with faculty.
*Strong research/publications/posters and prior work experience.
*Strong ECs and leadership positions.
*I heavily used the Texas STAR database to query what schools might not have a Step 1/2 cutoff based on previous interview invites and applied accordingly.

Results:
*Applied to over 70 programs, had 18 interviews, 1 T10, half were top 30-50 academics, the rest were community programs.
*Did some LOIs with little success, did not send LOI to matched program prior to obtaining interview.
*Definitely got feedback that my scores were too low for some places.
 
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Did you honor your IM sub-I and do you think that helped make up for the HP in IM during your core clerkship? Did your interviewers interviewers mention something about your application (e.g Letters, research, etc.) that stood out to them despite your numbers and grades?
 
Lawper said:
Were you AOA?

Now i'm curious how @efle @Lucca @throwaway1000000 respond to this
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I think I said it in that post too but not too surprised..there are always students that this happens to. They must have something special in their app that others don't. Hate to say it but URM factor seems to be a pretty big plus, research if they have a PhD or publications in top-notch journals, a personal story that the person reviewing their application really connects to, letters written by someone who the person reviewing the applications is friends with etc.

In this person's scenario, they only got 1 interview out of top 30 programs and rest in top 30-50. I would think that most people with this app would be in the top 40-50 range and would probably not get that one interview.

Congrats to OP! Not putting your efforts down at all.Someone resonated with your app and that's all that matters for you. Not sure if this is really generalizable however to the majority of students.
 
efle said:
It was 1 interview. Mix in good luck and that's all you need. Or, could be some X factor like URM, long faculty relationship to someone with influence on the PD, or maybe it's just a PD who treats USMLEs appropriately (least likely).
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I thought URM dosent really matter for residency selection?
 
What are your timelines for research, and how did you balance research with school work?
 
Lawper said:
Were you AOA?

Now i'm curious how @efle @Lucca @throwaway1000000 respond to this
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No, not AOA or GHHS.

Also not URM.

No influence on PD/relationship to PD from research faculty.

^^these questions/assumptions are frustrating

To clarify, the rest of my invites were not top 20 places but generally speaking a couple in the 20's-30's depending on which ranking system you used.

I agree that this will not apply generally, but I think there are so many threads about people with top scores and their success that I wanted to start this thread in case others like me find it and have some hope/confidence to shoot their shot.
 
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DameJulie said:
What are your timelines for research, and how did you balance research with school work?
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I spent my first summer doing research that did not get published until beginning of third year. I focused a lot on doing poster presentations in between publications to get out there. I came into medical school with a strong amount of research already with several publications, but not sure that helped.
 
Matched2020 said:
No, not AOA or GHHS.

Also not URM.

No influence on PD/relationship to PD from research faculty.

^^these questions/assumptions are frustrating
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Why though? These are legitimate questions. By your own admission you're saying you had a low Step 1 score, went to a mid-tier school, honors'd only 1 clerkship, and still got into a Top 10 IM program, which is no small feat. It's not unreasonable to ask questions about these other parts of your application especially since Step 1 score is what PDs say is the most important consideration in offering interviews to/ranking candidates. I understand an "AMA" thread doesn't preclude OPs from being turned off by certain questions, but I think those posting "AMAs" shouldn't be so easily offended or trying to shame people for asking these questions.
 
Matched2020 said:
No, not AOA or GHHS.

Also not URM.

No influence on PD/relationship to PD from research faculty.

^^these questions/assumptions are frustrating

To clarify, the rest of my invites were not top 20 places but generally speaking a couple in the 20's-30's depending on which ranking system you used.

I agree that this will not apply generally, but I think there are so many threads about people with top scores and their success that I wanted to start this thread in case others like me find it and have some hope/confidence to shoot their shot.
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You wrote an AMA because you are an outlier and then you are upset that posters asked why you think you are an outlier?

You didn't give your step scores, your research output, or any guess as to why you think you matched where you did. How low is low? Some med students would call 235 low because it's below their goal score, but it's not.

I do think encouraging posts like these are great. If you were using doximity, the top 20-50 programs includes a lot of great, big name programs. What do you think made you stand out despite having a very low step score?
 
Matched2020 said:
I spent my first summer doing research that did not get published until beginning of third year. I focused a lot on doing poster presentations in between publications to get out there. I came into medical school with a strong amount of research already with several publications, but not sure that helped.
Click to expand...

Congrats on the great match! I'm sure research had to play a big role

What was the rough geographic location of the program you matched to (e.g. was it in California/Northeast versus elsewhere)? For IM, most of my classmates found it harder to land interviews at the top Northeast/California programs compared to equally strong programs in other parts of the country.
 
walter_heisenberg said:
Wait what? Is this for all fields or just IM? I was told extensively it only matters to get into med school not after
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Come on man, our entire society revolves around this stuff. Turn on the TV and it's race stuff this and race stuff that. You'd have to be massively naive to think residency selection is somehow immune to society's single greatest obsession.
 
Modstopizdy said:
Come on man, our entire society revolves around this stuff. Turn on the TV and it's race stuff this and race stuff that. You'd have to be massively naive to think residency selection is somehow immune to society's single greatest obsession.
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Well, Ive heard that residency programs are really just looking for the best and brightest who are willing to work hard and dont play politics with this as much. Idk ive just heard it has a much smaller impact for residency than for med school or undergrad admissions
 
walter_heisenberg said:
Well, Ive heard that residency programs are really just looking for the best and brightest who are willing to work hard and dont play politics with this as much. Idk ive just heard it has a much smaller impact for residency than for med school or undergrad admissions
Click to expand...

You're right, the race stuff is much less important for residency selection than for college/med school admissions. So although you don't have to worry about the elephant in the room, there's still the 500lb gorilla lol.
 
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walter_heisenberg said:
Well, Ive heard that residency programs are really just looking for the best and brightest who are willing to work hard and dont play politics with this as much. Idk ive just heard it has a much smaller impact for residency than for med school or undergrad admissions
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There is diversity within the best and the brightest who are willing to work hard. Recruiting a diverse residency class does not mean you aren't choosing amongst the best and the brightest. Programs use personality as a selection factor and they choose residents based on the culture they are trying to create for the program. There are many soft factors that go into resident selection in addition to reaching a baseline threshold in academics.

Diversity is also important for recruiting talent. My black friends turned down top programs that didn't have POC residents. It's a red flag if a program has over 10 residents per class and no racial diversity. Same way that Ob programs with no men will have trouble recruiting males and surgery programs with no women will have trouble recruiting women. If you want to recruit the best, you need to make sure the best would feel comfortable there.

There are also a ton of legacies in competitive specialties. The impression I got was around 1/10-1/7 had a parent in the specialty and they used those connections to boost their application. The system has never been a pure meritocracy
 
efle said:
It was 1 interview. Mix in good luck and that's all you need. Or, could be some X factor like URM, long faculty relationship to someone with influence on the PD, or maybe it's just a PD who treats USMLEs appropriately (least likely).
Click to expand...

URM status plays a factor for residency?
 
Yes, I did end up H'ing sub-I.

Interviewers said my LORs were fantastic. Only one interview brought up my very low Step 1 score (it's actually low <<<230).

The vast majority of my interviews were in California and the Northeast.

Lol @ above comments assuming I'm a guy.
 
What types of ECs did you have?
What types of leadership did you have?
What type of research did you do?
What was your Step 1 score?
What was your Step 2 score?
How did you prep for interviews?
Did you wear a pant suit or a skirt suit?
 
curbsideconsult said:
What types of ECs did you have?
What types of leadership did you have?
What type of research did you do?
What was your Step 1 score?
What was your Step 2 score?
How did you prep for interviews?
Did you wear a pant suit or a skirt suit?
Click to expand...

Without getting into too much identifying detail:
1) Volunteered at free clinic, mentorship for local teenagers, involved in medical education
2) Founded a student organization, led a couple of others, was part of a national organization leadership group
3) Public health/population health type research, some medical education work
4) Rough estimate: bottom quintile Step 1 and second quintile Step 2
5) I prepped for interviews by doing several mock interviews with faculty who knew me and got several opinions. Everyone said not to address my scores/grades during an interview unless it was asked directly (only was asked once directly). I thought this was hard to not try to say something about this glaring weakness, but advisors said that at this point it must not be that big of a deal if they are interviewing you.
6) Pant suit obviously. At one interview I said a woman wear a hilariously short suit skirt and there was so much walking on the tour, I felt a little bad.
 
1) How many years of work experience did you have prior to medical school?
2) Did you take a research year during medical school?
3) Do you have a graduate degree?
4) Did you obtain a letter from the faculty you worked with during your Sub-I and/or research mentors?
 
Panther_ said:
1) How many years of work experience did you have prior to medical school?
2) Did you take a research year during medical school?
3) Do you have a graduate degree?
4) Did you obtain a letter from the faculty you worked with during your Sub-I and/or research mentors?
Click to expand...
1. 3ish, non profit world
2. No research year
3. No graduate degree
4. Yes, I got 3 letters from Sub-I and research PI
 
subtlepenguin said:
I only know Doximity, which seems wildly inaccurate. Which other lists have you seen?
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US News has one now but also some weird placements on that one. I think everyone would name at least the same handful of ~7 core names in their top 10 list tho
 
Congrats for matching reportedly well but I agree with the above poster - this scenario likely isn't generalizable whatsoever. People shouldn't see this thread and think they're competitive for top programs for academic IM without top scores, more research, AOA, etc. That said, you're a great outlier and deserve to feel good about your match!
 
Cardiacmriiiii said:
advice for incoming med students wanting IM?
Click to expand...

I would say as an incoming student, just focus on getting acclimated to school. There's no rush for research/ECs especially with the current situation and IM generally does not require much convincing that you're interested in this specialty when you are applying as opposed to other fields.

Maybe reach out matched 4th years at your school to get their school-specific advice before they head off.
 
efle said:
JHH MGH BWH UCSF duke washu NYP michigan mayo

is it in there?
Click to expand...

Curious, I've always seen Penn considered a top 10 IM program - is that not actually the case?
 
Seihai said:
Curious, I've always seen Penn considered a top 10 IM program - is that not actually the case?
Click to expand...
yes it is def a top program by both applicant rankings in the past 3 years and popularity on ROL.

(first spreadsheet linked is '18-'19; second is '19-'20)

 
Seihai said:
Curious, I've always seen Penn considered a top 10 IM program - is that not actually the case?
Click to expand...
I think it is. These are all arbitrary rankings, so I don't pay too much attention to them
But in terms of competitive WashU, Mayo, and Michigan are not all that competitive. Penn and Stanford are definitely more competitive
 
throwaway1000000 said:
I think it is. These are all arbitrary rankings, so I don't pay too much attention to them
But in terms of competitive WashU, Mayo, and Michigan are not all that competitive. Penn and Stanford are definitely more competitive
Click to expand...
Midwest shade
 
Matched2020 said:
Midwest shade
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Not really. I am from the midwest and will be going to a strong midwest program. Midwest programs are on average not as competitive as the ones on the coasts, except for maybe northwestern because of chicago being a desirable city.
And notice I am not talking about rankings. I am talking about competitiveness.
I think rankings are BS and programs should only be considered in tiers of competitiveness. WashU, Mayo, and Michigan are definitely not in my most competitive tier.
If we are talking about quality of the programs, I think Mayo and WashU are both of excellent quality and will get you wherever your end goals are. But so are many other IM programs.
 
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throwaway1000000 said:
Not really. I am from the midwest and will be going to a strong midwest program. Midwest programs are on average not as competitive as the ones on the coasts, except for maybe northwestern because of chicago being a desirable city.
And notice I am not talking about rankings. I am talking about competitiveness.
I think rankings are BS and programs should only be considered in tiers of competitiveness. WashU, Mayo, and Michigan are definitely not in my most competitive tier.
If we are talking about quality of the programs, I think Mayo and WashU are both of excellent quality and will get you wherever your end goals are. But so are many other IM programs.
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How do you define competitiveness then?

Per the AAMC Residency Explorer (2017 data that's available): Rush and Northwestern had 4300 applicants, does that mean Rush is as competitive as Northwestern?

Also what about Michigan--you left that out of your quality comment? Seems like another excellent place too.
 
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Matched2020 said:
How do you define competitiveness then?

Per the AAMC Residency Explorer (2017 data that's available): Rush and Northwestern had 4300 applicants, does that mean Rush is as competitive as Northwestern?

Also what about Michigan--you left that out of your quality comment? Seems like another excellent place too.
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Don't think there's data anywhere other than maybe texas star (don't have access to). Have to go with anecdotal experience. This is not high quality scientific data that I am providing here. Just my anecdotal experiences.

I got an interview at WashU and none of the other programs. same with my classmates that were competitive. they also got interviews at mayo and michigan which i didn't. 2 of them even matched at WashU, 1 at Mayo, and 1 at michigan.

None of them got interviews at penn or stanford. Not waitlisted either.
In terms of quality, I can't comment on michigan because I don't know anyone there.
One of the residents at my program who I am friends with is now a medicine attending at WashU, so I have decent idea on the quality of the program there.
One of my mentors trained in GI at mayo and my other mentor trained in cardiology at mayo so I have a decent idea of the program.
 
throwaway1000000 said:
Don't think there's data anywhere other than maybe texas star (don't have access to). Have to go with anecdotal experience. This is not high quality scientific data that I am providing here. Just my anecdotal experiences.

I got an interview at WashU and none of the other programs. same with my classmates that were competitive. they also got interviews at mayo and michigan which i didn't. 2 of them even matched at WashU, 1 at Mayo, and 1 at michigan.

None of them got interviews at penn or stanford. Not waitlisted either.
In terms of quality, I can't comment on michigan because I don't know anyone there.
One of the residents at my program who I am friends with is now a medicine attending at WashU, so I have decent idea on the quality of the program there.
One of my mentors trained in GI at mayo and my other mentor trained in cardiology at mayo so I have a decent idea of the program.
Click to expand...
Is your school in the midwest too? could also be geographic bias
 
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