AMA Matched IM Top 10 (w/o the typical Steps/Grades)

[efle]

Not saying WashU isn't great, but you should use the IM fellowship match for competitive fields rather than the medical school match to assess the "prestige" strength of IM programs specifically, as there are cases where they differ. I mentioned Mayo earlier, but schools like Dartmouth have an even more drastic difference - outstanding medical school with a majority going to elite programs and only ~1 staying internal per year, but mediocre IM program (in both competition and fellowship match).

Dartmouth is an elite medical school? That's news to me, I wouldnt have expected them to be anything special

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[Dwan]

Dartmouth is an elite medical school? That's news to me, I wouldnt have expected them to be anything special

Not top tier, but much stronger than their associated IM program, based on student quality and match list.

 

[Seihai]

I'd say for incoming students wanting to go to a "top" IM program, I would recommend trying really hard to do well on Steps and clerkships as it might make your life simpler. However, if that does not end up working out, don't beat yourself up on these things and try to move on. I spent years thinking that my destiny was going to be determined by a three digit number, and on match day, all of that shame and guilt was wiped away entirely. I'd also start thinking about your application and try to make it convincing outside of the quantitative aspects. Try to be cohesive and unique to break through the noise with meaningful ECs and research.

Thanks for the insights. Step 1 may be going pass/fail soon, so this may play less of a factor for incoming students. Would you be willing to mention some of the ECs and research you were involved in (as more of a reference than a template)?

 

[Matched2020]

^^ My school does not have the benefit of having the Ivy League bonus like Dartmouth/Brown and regular access to "elite" programs based on name.

@Seihai:
ECs: volunteering, started a student organization, mentoring
Research: population health, some medical education work

 

[Dwan]

Wait... The person who said Mayo wasn't as respected was literally you. The quote from that post was from a post you made.

I'm a bit confused as to what the point of this thread's arguing is, but I'll pose a question for OP (if they're even bothering to look at this thread).

If I were an incoming student who wanted to go IM -> academic medicine and wanted to match at a top-tier IM program (regardless of what programs those may be), what should I be aiming to do in medical school?

That was my post, I'm a PGY-1 from a mid-tier MD who interviewed at top IM programs. If you don't go to a top med school, then the most important factor for matching a top IM residency will be AOA. There are programs that will take students with strong boards without AOA from low/mid-tier schools such as a few of these mentioned above, but AOA will open the most options and get you the best "yield". Typically, AOA and boards are correlated, but the people I knew with AOA/low boards performed better than those with high boards/no AOA. Extensive research is not as big of a factor for IM as for fellowship, but if you have a lot of research, then you can get a top academic fellowship even from a mid tier IM program (so if your goal is eventually a top research cards/gi/onc/pulm program, starting research now will be very helpful for the future). And it can be your hook for an occasional reach interview, as with the OP.

 

[efle]

That was my post, I'm a PGY-1 from a mid-tier MD who interviewed at top IM programs. If you don't go to a top med school, then the most important factor for matching a top IM residency will be AOA. There are programs that will take students with strong boards without AOA from low/mid-tier schools such as a few of these mentioned above, but AOA will open the most options and get you the best "yield". Typically, AOA and boards are correlated, but the people I knew with AOA/low boards performed better than those with high boards/no AOA. Extensive research is not as big of a factor for IM as for fellowship, but if you have a lot of research, then you can get a top academic fellowship even from a mid tier IM program (so if your goal is eventually a top research cards/gi/onc/pulm program, starting research now will be very helpful for the future). And it can be your hook for an occasional reach interview, as with the OP.

What region were you in and did that seem to correlate with where you and your friends nabbed interviews? After seeing the Downstate list it seems like region is a HUGE factor for where mid-tier applicants find success

 

[Dwan]

What region were you in and did that seem to correlate with where you and your friends nabbed interviews? After seeing the Downstate list it seems like region is a HUGE factor for where mid-tier applicants find success

West. I think there is some component of regional influence, as there are certain institutions out west that we more regularly send students to, but others that are still very hard to break (Stanford, UCSF). Desirability of location is an important factor. Many good students here received interviews at strong midwest programs, particularly UWisc/Iowa/Mayo/WashU, rarely UChicago, but almost never NW. East is harder, but we get JHU/Yale much more often than Penn/BWH/MGH/Columbia. I don't think I had major regional disadvantages overall relative to the competitiveness of the IM program, although I did need to send LOIs to get interviews at some places (in IM, this is particularly important to places that think you may be using them as a safety).

 

[Seihai]

That was my post, I'm a PGY-1 from a mid-tier MD who interviewed at top IM programs. If you don't go to a top med school, then the most important factor for matching a top IM residency will be AOA. There are programs that will take students with strong boards without AOA from low/mid-tier schools such as a few of these mentioned above, but AOA will open the most options and get you the best "yield". Typically, AOA and boards are correlated, but the people I knew with AOA/low boards performed better than those with high boards/no AOA. Extensive research is not as big of a factor for IM as for fellowship, but if you have a lot of research, then you can get a top academic fellowship even from a mid tier IM program (so if your goal is eventually a top research cards/gi/onc/pulm program, starting research now will be very helpful for the future). And it can be your hook for an occasional reach interview, as with the OP.

Thank you for this.

Does that mean students from top schools (I'm assuming this means the stereotypical contenders like Harvard, Hopkins, and Penn) have different things to aim for than students from low/mid-tier schools when wanting to get into a top IM program? It sounds like AOA is less important while research might become more important as a differentiating factor, unless I'm misinterpreting your post a little bit?

 

[Dwan]

Thank you for this.

Does that mean students from top schools (I'm assuming this means the stereotypical contenders like Harvard, Hopkins, and Penn) have different things to aim for than students from low/mid-tier schools when wanting to get into a top IM program? It sounds like AOA is less important while research might become more important as a differentiating factor, unless I'm misinterpreting your post a little bit?

A number of those top places don't even do AOA, but AOA is definitely great for them as well. It's just that top schools do well on IM interviews regardless of AOA, while for low/mid tier places, AOA is pretty much a requirement to get a good yield on your top tier IM applications. You can still get in one without it from a low/mid school, but will need another hook and won't have as many options, at least from what I've seen. If you have a hook like research, it is also easier to be noticed if you are from a top tier as your application will more likely be read, while many programs will use screening methods such as AOA for low/mid tier med schools (the screens aren't absolute, but most programs likely do not complete a thorough review on all 5k applications).