AMA - Practice startups and early retirement

Discussion in 'Dental' started by TanMan, Mar 19, 2017.

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  1. I-hate-alginate

    I-hate-alginate La Dolce Vita

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    If you plan on going 400k in debt, you better start thinking of plans on how to pay them back.
     
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  3. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    That is true. You should always have the end goal in mind with multiple strategies in mind. Think of it like a war, variables change, you need to have an adaptive doctrine of financial growth. On the flip side, getting into dental school is the most important goal, but at least you have a vision of where to go from there. You can't always predict what you'll be doing after dental school, or if you have to be a gunner to get into residency.
     
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  4. Reality?

    Reality?

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    Books, websites, blogs, podcasts, etc. to recommend for business/financial mastery TanMan?
    Do you excercise? What's your diet like?
    What's been your most effective strategy for case acceptance?
    What are your plans for after you retire?
    What is your tx planning philosophy?
    Are you planning to sell your practice to a DSO?
     
  5. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    1. I get that question a lot about what I read. I need to dig up books and literature and post it on here.
    2. Exercise? Not too often. I just go in the pool and swim a few laps every now and then. I'll exercise more when I start gaining weight. Diet: 1 meal a day (dinner) on workdays. On days off, eat whatever I want (lots of snacking).
    3. Most effective strategy? If you give your staff financial incentive and stake, they'll do all the selling for you.
    4. After retirement? Relax, enjoy the world, travel everywhere, seek new entrepreneurial pursuits. Pretty much freedom to do what I want on a whim. Life's a journey, we'll see where it takes me. The most important thing is that I don't have to worry about money after retirement
    5. I'm pretty conservative. If you don't have to drill onto tooth structure, don't do it. My priorities are pretty much:
    Address pain first, then potential pain, then the foundation (perio), then everything else. Sometimes, the patient's priorities are different, and most of the time, we have to respect their priorities unless you're going to cause them harm by prioritizing what they want (i.e veneers on abscessed teeth without doing an RCT or addressing underlying pathology)
    6. Selling... My financial plans are based without selling the practice in mind (pretty much if I have to walk away from it, I can, from a financial perspective). Depends who's willing to buy it. I'll sell to anyone who has money. However, I don't want a "tutorial period for the buyer, where I stay on for months or a year". Buy it as is, and good luck!
     
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  6. Reality?

    Reality?

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    How many other dentists collecting similar to you do you know?
    Average Class II composite time? Crown? Partially impacted third molar ext?
    How many languages do you speak? Does being bi/tri-lingual significantly increase total active patients in your opinion?
    How do you choose your referring specialists?
     
  7. distressstudent

    distressstudent 2+ Year Member

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    And how are you accomplishing this? What's the incentive model you are offering them?

    (based on how much the whole office is producing, or just patients they've seen, etc.).

    and what's your staff turnover rate looking at about now
     
  8. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    1. Those that have 2-3 doctors in their office or two offices collect about the same. Haven't seen a solo office with similar collections, but then again, a lot of dentists in my area don't like me.
    2. 7-10 minutes, depends, but 4 back to back, i.e MO,MOD,MOD,DO would take about 25-30 minutes. I don't do partial bony thirds
    3. 2 Fluent, 1 not that great. Does not increase total active patients by a large margin
    4. Screen them out personally, interview, get to know them, try them out a few times, if patients are happy, clinically good results, keep referring. If there's complaints, we switch them out.

    Incentive model: Profit sharing (I give a percentage of my gross production to the staff).

    Staff turnover rate: Haven't lost a DA in 2+ yrs I think. One hygienist left because she didn't want to work Sundays. I was actually hoping she left since I had her replacement in line already.
     
  9. Reality?

    Reality?

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    What are your thoughts on expanded function dental assistants and hygienists? Why/ why not?
    What is the best way to reduce liability/litigation possibility?
    What type of lawyers and accountants do you use?
     
  10. Reality?

    Reality?

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    Were you planning on retiring early before going into dentistry?
     
  11. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    1. Whatever you can delegate, delegate at a cheaper price point. Use them so you can do more procedures for less labor costs.
    2. Best way to reduce liability and litigation, simply put, is to screen out patients that are most likely to sue you, and learn how to talk to patients. Your words don't cost you anything, but can sure as hell prevent a lot of headache later on.
    3. A CPA? Also have asset protection lawyer, business lawyer, and lawyer for litigation if needed.

    Not as early as what I foresee now.
     
  12. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    Why couldn't/didn't you start your own practice right after graduation? Were you not able to secure a practice loan? Also, many brokers seem to believe buying a practice is the financially better choice than a start up given 1) the guaranteed income from day one with existing patients especially if there's a "tutorial period" where the old doc stays in to show the ropes and deals with retreats, 2) experienced staff who know what they are doing (no need to re-train), and 3) you are essentially taking a competition off the market when you are buying. What's your retort to this? Lastly, what's your EBITDA?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  13. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    1. Didn't have the money to start. Practice loan is more difficult, lots of paperwork, red tape, restrictions.
    2. Brokers make their money by selling you an office. See my previous post of essentially working to pay off that practice. There was some simple equation I put there, look it up.
    3. I've addressed the idea that experienced staff is not always the best.
    4. You're not just taking a competition off the market, you're feeding it money too.
    5. I don't know the EBITDA off the top of my head, nor do I really want to disclose that to you.

    A lot of your questions have been answered in previous posts. I don't want to type it all out again. Still at work. Look it up.
     
  14. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    What was your rationale behind relocating to Texas upon graduation?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  15. Typical Average Student

    Typical Average Student 2+ Year Member

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    What's a good size piece of land for a stand-alone dental office + parking? Do you think 0.5-0.75 acre on a corner is sufficient?
     
  16. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Money, and later on, guns and freedom.

    I think its a hard question to answer, especially for a single tenant; it depends on the city's requirements for parking. You don't want it too big or else you might end up paying more in property taxes unless you plan to develop a multitenant shopping center or "mini-mall". I don't have enough first hand experience but my thought process would be along those lines.
     
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  17. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    If you had to open up a practice in NYC as a GP right after graduation, what would have been your survival strategy in terms of hitting 3m in production/yr (which according to you is about the upper limit of what a single doc GP office can produce)? Specifically, what would be your thought process in terms of site selection, patient base target (FFS, HMO/PPO, medicare/medicaid, age group, upper class vs lower class), fee schedule/pricing strategy, marketing strategy, staffing, and office hours? Procedure-wise would you have expanded your skill sets in this case (IV sedation/full mouth rehab/surgical extractions/implant placement/ortho)? i.e. can your production number be replicated in NYC with just bread and butter dentistry with molar endos thrown in?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  18. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    There's multiple factors going against you with respect to opening in NYC. Operating costs and competition would be the biggest hurdles. You'll definitely need more capital to weather the first few months of mounting operating costs v. intake of revenue. So... first strategy, save more money. Second, keep the same principles, build cheap, but good looking. Third, mapping the areas, see who's the most underserved in the region that can generate a profit. (I haven't studied this, so I can't really answer this right now). Next, advertising strategy and roll out. NYC is the biggest market and cost per point in the entire US (Second is LA). I would try and find out the hours that your demographic works and base it off that. Staff wise, I'd keep the same principles.

    A lot of offices that are starving try to expand their skillset to offer more and pretty much milk more out of their patients (increase per patient production). I wouldn't know how to answer what skill sets to add unless I understood the market more, so from a difficulty perspective, I'd do invisalign in the very least. I don't do that right now because I make more money from orthodontist referrals and wouldn't want to burn any bridges.

    You can reach the production number I stated with bread and butter dentistry. There are some ethically questionable things you'll have to do with respect to advertising, SEO, and procedures, but it can be done. As a previous poster mentioned, what's the point of mentioning it? Because there's a way, but it may violate TOS for this forum. If you really want to know, do your own research. Being able to sleep at night with peace of mind is most important for me.
     
  19. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    Last question for the day: how do you manage the physical toll from practicing dentistry? Exercise? Physical therapy? Massage? Yoga? And did you do research all on your own or did you consult with a mentor figure in dentistry when starting out?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  20. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    I get enough exercise from dentistry. I do get a massage every now and then. I did have to go to a physical therapist one time since my forearm was hurting from too many extractions and root canals.

    My own research and experiences (as life lessons). I did not have the luxury of a mentor.
     
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  21. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    so basically ortho is the best route in terms of both physical well being and early retirement...

    Thanks for the contributions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  22. SM555

    SM555 2+ Year Member

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    First off, thanks for starting this thread, I've really enjoyed it. I've got a few questions regarding what you recommend students do who's main goal is ownership. Many grads just go to corporate for the first few years to build confidence in their procedures, but for someone who is looking to make as much money as possible after graduation, do you feel like jumping into ownership right away with a dentist who would be willing to mentor and phase out over 6 months would be the most ideal. Do you think the opportunity cost in regards to building a patient family, building equity in your practice and the increased income from owning is enough to justify giving up the "1-2 year learning period" in corporate?
    If you recommend the ownership right away route, what should a dental student be doing his last 2 years of school to expedite this process and when ideally should one start looking.
    I know you've set up shop in/near a city with huge projected growth over the next few decades. How did you go about location selection in a city such as this. Did you just find a newly developed piece of commercial real estate in an area that you thought would soon see the huge population increase or did you fight the competition and set up in an already prime location. If you could do it over again, would you recommend startups in these cities or purchasing an existing practice, if so what current production numbers of the practices would be best to look at buying.

    If these have already been asked let me know and I'll go back and search through the pages, once again thanks for your help.

    (Also, @Cold Front , I'd like to hear your opinion as well. I've really enjoyed seeing both of your opinions to the questions as theyre usually coming from two completely different angles)
     
  23. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    I think going to corporate could make you a faster and more confident dentist but the primary purpose of going to corporate is to raise enough capital to be able to start your own office. Unfortunately, there are people out there who never get any better and get stuck in corporate for the rest of their lives. If I had rich parents or enough capital, I probably would have started my own from the start. We are born into certain realities of life and we gotta make do with the cards we're dealt with. I think finding the right mentor would be key, if you are unable to come up with your own systems of efficiency. I don't like the way most dentists operate, so I'm not a fan of the whole mentor concept. You might just be led into becoming a slow and inefficient dentist.

    In terms of location, I setup away from everyone else. I would never setup in a generic medical center unless I could have leeway on the size and flashy-ness of the sign. Identifying the "underserved with money or means to pay" is crucial when looking for a location. I don't really like the idea of buying an office unless it was extremely cheap with high production. For a single doctor solo practice, I'd aim for 2.5+. I am not in a prime location, I am about a mile or two away from the prime location. The reason for this is that prime real estate is expensive, high traffic areas are not always the best places, and usually suburban middle/upper middle income regions are a little off the prime areas as well.

    To get ready for the real dentistry, you have to study how patient flows in a dental office, minimizing the wait times of everyone, knowing which procedures you can juggle, and being able to innovate beyond what dental school teaches you. When you understand how each procedure flows, you know when you can step out to do other things, and when chunks of time will be required that you can't go in and out.

    So... how to prepare in dental school?
    1. Learn from part time faculty that actually have their own offices and promote efficiency
    2. Learn to juggle multiple patients and procedures at a time.
    3. Endo + Crown... get fast. Once you meet your minimum requirements, just speed it up without getting kicked out of dental school. This is why I advocate an aggressive approach to finishing your requirements early. Nothing to lose as long as you remain under the radar.
    4. Study each steps of the procedure time-wise, understand how to weave in and out of procedures.
    5. Something I haven't noted here, get fast at reading radiographs and doing exams. (I think I took this for granted and forgot to mention this to everyone)
    6. Learn to talk to patients efficiently with charisma. More time talking to them does not mean better. You can be efficient and make the patient feel appreciated at the same time. Words aren't expensive, time is.
    7. Learn to identify difficult patients and refer those out (reduces liability and headache)
    8. If you don't have the money and want to start right after dental school, look for people who will lend to you (banks are not a good option). Otherwise, go corporate.
    9. Study the business of dentistry. The most limited resource you have is labor that only the dentist can perform. Study what you can legally delegate to your auxiliaries and delegate. Remember, your time is worth more than everyone else's unless you're not producing (but you should be!) There's many facets of dentistry such as advertising, patient flow, patient retention/rejection, FIFO, pleasing as many people as possible, exit strategy, human resources, etc...
    10. Go go go!

    This response is probably going to be very fragmented. I'm tired, if I didn't answer any of your questions, please ask them again. I was going down line by line on your questions, I may have missed something.
     
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  24. Apramana

    Apramana 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks for the perspective, @TanMan. What did you mean by "2.5+"? From the context of the rest of your comments in this thread, it sounds like that refers to aiming for $2.5+ million in production when buying an office.
     
  25. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    2.5+ million in terms of a fully functioning office, or in terms of production goal if you see an opportunity to turn around a poor performing office. However, 2.5MM+ is relative, depending on the price of the office.
     
  26. Apramana

    Apramana 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks, @TanMan.

    From what I recall, your office has 7 hygiene chairs, with 6 that you can use as dentist operating stations ("ops"). How is the 7th hygiene, non-operating station different from the other six stations where you do operate? What's missing that prevents the hygiene station from being classified as an operating station?

    Thanks, again, for all of your insight.

    Edit: I just looked up your quote, here's what I was referring to:
     
  27. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Every ops has its own supplies to do ops in, electric handpieces, and dual delivery systems. Hygiene does not have electric handpieces, just piezos, single delivery system, and everything needed to do hygiene.
     
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  28. fancymylotus

    fancymylotus A Whole New World 10+ Year Member

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    Dont.
     
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  29. Apramana

    Apramana 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks, @TanMan. :)
     
  30. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    If you have an a hour or so downtime, you can skim through my previous posts to find answers to your questions and more. If you still can't find specific answer, let me know, I can expand on it.

    I am checking these forums once a week or 2 lately. So my replies might be delayed.
     
  31. basketball_grey

    basketball_grey 2+ Year Member

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    How hard was dental school for you? How much free time did you have D1-D4 years?
     
  32. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

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    But.....the lifestyle in NYC is unbeatable!
     
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  33. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    I think dental school was hard for the first few months since I went to every class. Then I realized that class was useless and not going made dental school a lot easier. For most classes, I could just study the week before finals and pass (or even top 10%). I think there's a difference between hard and time-wasters. After not going to classes, dental school just had a lot of time wasting activities such as preclinical lab work. There are some classes that have quizzes as a "attendance check", but usually we can just take the quiz and go about our day.

    If you don't want to specialize, just do enough to pass and you will have plenty of time. Also, if you finish all your clinical requirements ahead of time, you can coast through your 4th year without really doing anything.

    YMMV with each school. That's why I didn't want to go to UOP; quizzes and mandatory attendance back in the day (might still be applicable?) I'm glad it worked out in the end, and in retrospect, I'd go to a school that only has finals.

    So... from a functional perspective, how does this apply to you? If you want to have an easy dental school life, look for the following:
    1. Minimal requirements for graduation
    2. Finals only (maybe midterms and quizzes if you really really have to)
    3. Scout out the rooms that you have to be in. Is there an easy entry/exit? This matters because if you are going to skip after a quiz, you don't want to be spotted. Although, a strategy commonly used is to pretend to go to the bathroom and show up right before class ends to pick up your stuff. A lot of people end up doing labwork or clinical work during class time so that they don't have to stay later.
    4. Live nearby. Nothing beats rolling out of bed and minimal commute time.
    5. Physical paperwork as opposed to electronic... since its actually a lot easier than the bureaucracies of dental school electronic charting, signatures, etc...
    6. Understand the bottlenecks and procedures of the system you're working with. Usually best to know if its easy or hard to get procedures before going to a specific dental school.
    7. Avoid curriculum(s) that have a lot of small group w/ attendance requirements because these will drain your time.
    8. Have a good group of people that can sign you in and take notes as needed.

    These address how to select a dental school that you can get by easily, and how to avoid wasting time in dental school. I got a lot more, but they'll probably take my diploma back at this rate, lol. Also, talking to my friend since he was able to identify me based on these postings, he said that a lot of these things I'm saying would probably get people kicked out and I got lucky. So... if you're going to do these things, play it cool, play it smart, be aware and have an exit strategy if things go wrong. Don't get kicked out due to poor execution or interpretation of the rules.
     
  34. TXftw

    TXftw 2+ Year Member

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    What kind of equipment do you have in your office (CEREC, LAVA scanner etc.)?
    If you do have any of this stuff, do you think its benefits have justified the increased overhead?
     
  35. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    CEREC - YES, definitely worth it. Paid for itself within a few months, increased efficiency, less visits, less chairtime overall. . The sound of it is like printing money.
    LANAP/Periolase - I'm iffy about this one, personally, I'm not a fan of it. Makes good money, but perio patients are difficult.
    Er:YAG Laser - I bought it when it was 50% off. Definitely worth the endo capabilities (PIPS). Speeds up my endos and cleans the canals better. Got it for only 30k. I'd wait for AMD lasers to put it on sale again.
    Electric handpieces - great investment, cuts faster, less chairtime

    I can't think of anything else right now, let me know if you have any other questions about equipment.
     
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  36. Steins;Gate

    Steins;Gate

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    If you had to rank the profitability of each of the specialties, how would you rank them?
     
  37. distressstudent

    distressstudent 2+ Year Member

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    People as in specific people, or some sort of business?
    Would like to know more about this

    And TanMan it sounds like you had a great clinical experience in dental school. I am not going to get too specific because I am still need to graduate, but it's damn hard to get anything done at school. I am learning more about how the school wants things done than how dentistry should be done.
     
  38. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    It's hard to say, I'd probably say on average, OS/endo would be the top of my list of most profitable. Least profitable would probably be prosthodontics. If you are looking at it in terms of solo practice capabilities, I'd put OS/endo/ortho. Pediatrics is more scalable for multiple practice models, but regional pedo mills are popping up everywhere. I don't know anything about perio, so I wouldn't know where to put that in rankings.

    Private lenders, alternative lending (very expensive, I would not recommend them for a startup), people who can lend you the money to start an office, etc... Those are just some examples. If I had networked more in dental school, I could have probably reached out to a financier.

    The most important thing to remember in dental school is to be able to understand the fundamentals to the procedure, and being able to apply those principles any clinical situation; not as a step by step guide on how to do dentistry. If you get stuck in the dental school way, you'll never be a profitable dentist. If you can always keep in mind that you want to be the most profitable dentist, then you'll do what you have to do to pass. When they give you your diploma and pass the boards, you can ditch all that and focus on being a better clinician.
     
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  39. Steins;Gate

    Steins;Gate

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    When you talk about profitability - to clarify, is this based on Dr time/hour?
    Also, which type of specialist refers the most cases to you?
    Last, what are your thoughts on a partnership in which 1 dentist works 7 days consecutively and the other the next 7 days and etc.? I.e. 7 on 7 off?
    What about a partnership in which 1 dentist works 7 to 2 (no lunch) and the other works from 2 to 9, for example? Lower OH with 2 dentists, able to provide services at early morning and evening hours, etc.
     
  40. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    1. Profitability is Dr Time/hour, but there's different ways of looking at it. Either you're looking at it as a solo, group practice, or multiple practice model. I address more of a solo practitioner model.
    2. Most of my referrals come from orthodontists. I am a higher volume office, I team up with the highest volume ortho offices in my area
    3. You might end up having to clean up the messes and post-ops of the other dentist, and vice versa with a 7 on 7 off schedule. Also, some patients like seeing the same dentist for each visit, but on a pure volume basis, should not be much of an issue except for burnout and being rusty when it's your turn coming back from your 7 day off
    4. 7-2, 2-9 works if both are ok, but you may have conflicts with respect to production (one may accuse the other of stacking appointments that are biased in the morning or afternoon), especially if there's a large difference between production levels.
     
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  41. slowhand40

    slowhand40

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    Thank you for sharing your story and your insights, TanMan.

    I am located in NY, and planning to start my own practice in Queens (residential area of NYC.) Queens is an over-saturated and competitive area, but NYC is the only option for me (due to family issues…)

    I am in the earliest stage (planning/budgeting process.) All your inputs greatly helped me planning with my very tight budget (saved enough money, but the fixed cost (i.e. office rent) is very high. I haven’t considered financing yet.) I came up with few questions to ask.

    Can you please provide little more information about 5 x $5,000 chairs and delivery system?

    Which brand and model did you buy? Were they new or refurbished? Did you get 5 identical chairs and system for all ops? Are they reliable enough to handle the procedures for your busy practice? Do you still use the same chairs? (If not, how long do they last? Did you get the same replacement or upgrade them?) If you could go back to your start-up phase, would you buy the same or would you invest more for better chairs and system? Do you recommend any seller or brand/model?


    I am using an air handpiece. My current job doesn't provide electric one. Only electric one I’ve used was the electric low speed from my dental school. When you mention electric handpieces, I am not sure if you are referring to the one that I used before...

    Are you still using the used NSK electric handpieces, or did you buy better one?
    Would you mind recommending me one so I can try?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  42. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

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    I purchased beaverstate chairs with rear delivery systems in my hygiene or chair delivery systems in my ops. I don't use overhead lights, cuspidors, or much else except chair + delivery system.

    5 identical chairs (I believe that they were represented as new to me, but probably were refurbished for the price), delivery system varied depending on either hygiene/ops. I think I replaced 3 of the chairs already; upgraded them to something better (Marus). I like Marus so far. If I were to go back to the startup phase, it depends on how much capital you have. I say start cheap, then plan on replacing once your office starts booming. Costs more, but you're less likely to go out of business in case you run out of cash. Should take a few months before you start raking in the big bucks.

    I am still using the same NSK control units (The original NL400's, the new side has the new nano 400's. I did have to buy a lot more handpieces though. I have at least 15 or more handpieces since I need to cycle through a lot per day. If you're going for cheap startup, get a used NSK NL400 from ebay. I rarely use low speed/latch types. I like straight handpieces to polish emax crowns
     
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  43. Daneosaurus

    Daneosaurus D2 5+ Year Member

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    I just started 3rd year. I'll tell you - it sucks.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
    Apramana and distressstudent like this.
  44. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

    273
    360
    Jul 21, 2004
    Dentist
    At first it does, but just finish your requirements fast while your colleagues are messing around. That way, you can have a more relaxed, yet productive 4th year.
     
    Apramana likes this.
  45. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

    1,531
    602
    Dec 6, 2005
    Ohio
    Dentist
    TanMan,

    When do you expect to fully retire? In 5 years? 10?

    When you do... How much income do you expect to make from your passive income a month?
     
  46. HRNYKIng

    HRNYKIng

    59
    11
    May 5, 2017
    New York, NY
    Financially do you think it is a better decision becoming a dentist over a doctor?
    -The business aspect of Dentistry allows you to probably rack in a good amount of revenue compared to little MD offices, however dental school costs more than any health care field so how did you go into dentistry with the plan of making so much money when you knew you would be in ridiculous debt?
    - Hours work better for dentists, unlike MDs but MDs have more specialties to choose from and can make more money that way as well.
    Would you have pursued Medicine, with the same end goal (get money and retire quick as possible), would it have worked out the same way business wise? Also what did you specialize in?
     
  47. TanMan

    TanMan New Member 10+ Year Member

    273
    360
    Jul 21, 2004
    Dentist
    I think a dentist is better overall. You're done after 4 years.
    1. The amount of debt we accumulate as dentists is not significant compared to our lifetime earnings. I wish people would stop fearing their student loan debt and see it as the admission price to an exclusive profession that will yield a lot more return.
    2. I wouldn't pursue medicine. Requires more time, effort, and not necessarily higher return. I think the business aspects of going into medicine are slightly different, but goes back to the type of consumer you are targeting. I am not a specialist, I am a general dentist.

    Retire from dentistry in 3 years, maybe work an additional 5 years (not as a dentist), but with a lot more flexibility, traveling, and freedom.

    At least 40-50k/month in passive income. It should be enough to sustain an adequate lifestyle.
     
    Cold Front likes this.
  48. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

    1,531
    602
    Dec 6, 2005
    Ohio
    Dentist
    $40-50k a month? So that's $25-30k after all taxes?

    Assuming 0 debt, how do you plan with your $1k a day Budget? Save most of it? Assuming you are not married, don't have kids, etc?
     
  49. distressstudent

    distressstudent 2+ Year Member

    1,002
    866
    Sep 3, 2013
    So only like 1.5 million nest-egg with a conservative SWR?

    I thought it would be a lot higher given how high production your office is and how much you can sell that for potentially down the line along with all the side business you are engaged with.
     
  50. jLaws

    jLaws

    1
    0
    Aug 11, 2017
    It would have to be significantly higher than 1.5 million, his goal was 40-50k a month not year
     
  51. studentdent00

    studentdent00 Probationary Status 2+ Year Member

    453
    362
    Dec 18, 2014
    The scary thing about his plan is that even with 5m (his minimum target according to this AMA) in savings, 500k-600k/yr in withdrawal won't carry him into his 60s and 70s...
     

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