ambition or family

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Everyone has to figure out for themselves what's important to them and be true to that. Problems arise when people live the way other people tell them to without any self reflection as to whether this is right for them. Obviously some people on here have it figured out, but I think it's silly to expect everyone else to come to the same conclusion. What would the world be like if no one sacrificed or took risks or gave any of themselves to society to do something they believed in? Btw, for the record, I don't hate families or children. 🙂
 
Just a quick update. Don't have time to argue. Just got out of the interview and on my way home, stoping at Starbucks to grab a frap. Anyway, I got a very positive impression. Met with their CEO, medical director, HR, DON and DOP. Very friendly and professional folks, painted a very rosy picture. Spent some extra time after the meeting with DOP alone for some straight info. But thought of a few more I should've asked just now. Anyway, there is already a lot of info to analyze and to plan responses for. The ball is in their court right now, and either way things will be very interesting next few days. Got a lot to talk with my wife about tonight.
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Just a quick update. Don't have time to argue. Just got out of the interview and on my way home, stoping at Starbucks to grab a frap. Anyway, I got a very positive impression. Met with their CEO, medical director, HR, DON and DOP. Very friendly and professional folks, painted a very rosy picture. Spent some extra time after the meeting with DOP alone for some straight info. But thought of a few more I should've asked just now. Anyway, there is already a lot of info to analyze and to plan responses for. The ball is in their court right now, and either way things will be very interesting next few days. Got a lot to talk with my wife about tonight.
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Sounds very intriguing! If you don't mind, after you speak with your wife, provide us with some more details and keep us updated. I would love to hear more about it
 
The ball's in their court? Hmmm... You told them you wanted the job?
 
The HR gal called me and gave me an offer this morning (they do move fast).

But it's not quite as good as I would have hoped. The salary they offer is almost $10K/yr less than I make right now. The benefits package, some minor differences aside, roughly comparable.

The HR person had politely asked if I would like to accept or make a counter offer over the phone. I wasn't expecting her to even mention the possibility of counter, but she probably sensed my hesitation. But I said would prefer take time to consider and prepare a formal written response when off duty.

My wife and I had talked about this possibility last night, nevertheless it comes off as a bit disappointing. The planned response is to make 1 counter offer and make final decision based on the result. Will be spending time tonight to type a letter and build a case for added value I can contribute to the organization.

Although, on paper, this new position offers a bigger decrease in workload than the pay cut, but factoring the uncertainty/unfamiliarity about this career path, there isn't a clear cut advantage. And that's only the basic answer, there are more things to consider than that.

Anyway, will have think about whether to go through HR or maybe approach DOP. Great, one more thing to think about.
 
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bashirdi2 said:
Sounds very intriguing! If you don't mind, after you speak with your wife, provide us with some more details and keep us updated. I would love to hear more about it
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The interview, I thought went great. Everyone was very personable and professional. Does appear that their organization, due to it's size, operated more like a family. There was lots of pharmacy related questions and answers. Talks about the LTAC operation and business model. It was quite interesting actually.

One of the big thing for me was they talked about how the company is currently expanding, and there are opportunities within. They acquired few other facilities, with more in the works. One of the places they are negotiating to lease a floor right now so happens to be at one of the nearby hospitals in our system. It ate away some of the concern I had. Of course, compared to my current systems, they are small, so upside and downside are hard to predict.
 
PharmDstudent said:
You know... I've given this some thought, and I believe the only people who will care that you're even a pharmacist (let alone that you're accomplished and whatnot) are friends and family. No one else will give it a second thought, and thus, the paradox - you end up sacrificing your family and friends to make your family and friends proud.
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This. Absolutely.

Yeah, I know the name Rockerfeller...and the name is as meaningless to me as, Alexander the Great, or Genghis Khan. I know the name, but I don't know the person these people were. The only one who cares about Rockerfeller is his family....and there have been many "great" people whose family didn't care about them. What good is it if people remember your name, but they never really knew you?

Personally, I think you are wrong not to follow your intuition....but perhaps your intuition is telling you not to listen to it. Haha. Rational thinking is fine to a point, but intuition is what tells you what is best for *you*, what will make "you" happy. If you only rationalize & don't listen to your intuition, you will end up living the life that would rationally make other people happy, but that may not be what makes you happy. Or satisfied.
 
look guy, different people, different views on life. Nobody can honestly say they know the answer, because the only ones who know the meaning of life are those who died and got the answer from God's mouth. They just aren't very good about come back to life to tell us about it.

But a lot of people care about Rockefeller, Alexander the great, etc and what they've done. I read about them, stand in awe, inspired by their accomplishments, like endless others who came before and yet to come. While our immediate family will remember us, certainly, but how many of us remember any family members few generations out (except ones that have accomplished something noteworthy)?

But again, this is my interpretation of life, and I don't know the exact answer either the same as anyone. On this eternal question with no way of knowing the answer, people can only choose to believe what they want to believe.
 
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Ackj said:
Accepted your counteroffer? Congrats buddy.
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Thank you. 🙂 I'm cautiously optimistic.

Update:

The meeting with my CEO went well enough. She initially tried to go down the road of counter-counter offer, but I said my mind was already made up and "you know me, it's not a question of pay."

My opinion to anyone else who might encounter this situation is: before you make a counter offer, be sure you would be willing to forgo any further possibilities if the counter-offer was accepted. I believe negotiations should be done in good faith. If you play both sides to get the highest offer, you probably paid for it with distrust and marked yourself for payback.

I volunteered to stay on as a consultant/PRN to help with the pharmacy operations to ensure a smooth transition. To show a sign of loyalty and good will goes a long way. And PRN is extra money. Win-win. The 180 degree opposite arrangement is kind of ironic.

Most staffing positions need 2 weeks notice, but de-facto standards for leadership positions are 1 month. Give as much time as you can without undue hardship to both sides. Higher the position, harder it is to find a replacement. Also, on a personal level, some company would not cash out your PTO without a minimum amount of notice. That's can be a lot of money, and the hiring company would understand if you give it to them straight. Further more, know your vestment schedule, eg. many company vest 401k matching by increasing % per year, if you reach the next year mark, the amount of 401k match that goes with you go up. If you have a sign-on bonus or stock options, again, know what are the dates that matters.

You can negotiate more than just pay. One of the things you tend to lose when you switch company is the seniority. Eg. I had been with mine for 2 years, I was due for a PTO bump in 3 years. Its not unfair to see if you can swing that the new position, especially if it's just a lateral move. Admittedly, I wasn't successful on this, and it's not big deal to me since I hardly ever took any time off. But to those with more family and obligations, it might be important.

Anyway, waaaaaaaaaaaahooooo! I went to happy hour with my HIM buddy today, he had heard, but it's good to finally just let it all out during happy hour, not having to keep a secret from a friend any more. 🙂
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Thank you. 🙂 I'm cautiously optimistic.

Update:

The meeting with my CEO went well enough. She initially tried to go down the road of counter-counter offer, but I said my mind was already made up and "you know me, it's not a question of pay."

My opinion to anyone else who might encounter this situation is: before you make a counter offer, be sure you would be willing to forgo any further possibilities if the counter-offer was accepted. I believe negotiations should be done in good faith. If you play both sides to get the highest offer, you probably paid for it with distrust and marked yourself for payback.

I volunteered to stay on as a consultant/PRN to help with the pharmacy operations to ensure a smooth transition. To show a sign of loyalty and good will goes a long way. And PRN is extra money. Win-win. The 180 degree opposite arrangement is kind of ironic.

Most staffing positions need 2 weeks notice, but de-facto standards for leadership positions are 1 month. Give as much time as you can without undue hardship to both sides. Higher the position, harder it is to find a replacement. Also, on a personal level, some company would not cash out your PTO without a minimum amount of notice. That's can be a lot of money, and the hiring company would understand if you give it to them straight. Further more, know your vestment schedule, eg. many company vest 401k matching by increasing % per year, if you reach the next year mark, the amount of 401k match that goes with you go up. If you have a sign-on bonus or stock options, again, know what are the dates that matters.

You can negotiate more than just pay. One of the things you tend to lose when you switch company is the seniority. Eg. I had been with mine for 2 years, I was due for a PTO bump in 3 years. Its not unfair to see if you can swing that the new position, especially if it's just a lateral move. Admittedly, I wasn't successful on this, and it's not big deal to me since I hardly ever took any time off. But to those with more family and obligations, it might be important.

Anyway, waaaaaaaaaaaahooooo! I went to happy hour with my HIM buddy today, he had heard, but it's good to finally just let it all out during happy hour, not having to keep a secret from a friend any more. 🙂
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Congrats!!!!!!! You've got it made now 😎
 
Its happening again. 🙁

So my CEO forward me this email. A corporate VP is asking for input. As the company is in an expansionary mode, the are in need of someone who is capable of training newly acquired pharmacies and DOPs, and they have identified me as a candidate. Naturally, this role will require significant traveling but also a higher pay.

I recognize this as a first step or proving ground towards a corporate DOP. But as a husband and father of 2 kids, I have my reservations. If not with a family, the choice would be easy. I spoke with my wife briefly, and she says she's fine, but had to remond me to stay faithful with the additional power and travel. Lol.

Life sure is interesting in this country. At least in the private sector, there does seem to be a large degree of meritocracy. You are only limited by your abilities and the sacrifices you are willing to make to reach your goals. But it doesn't make life choices any easier. All of which reminded me of the reason why I married my wife, a girl who by all estimate similar abilities, but willing to support me in the best interest of our joint dreams. If for any reason, I won't betray her just because she has proven her good faith and integrity.
 
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Sparda29 said:
I work a lot to play alot.
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I did the same, but no party lasts forever. There will be a time to smell the roses, or realized that you live with a golden shackle of your own choosing.
 
You seem to only capable of thinking in absolutism. Most rational people like me think in term of cost-benefit, and trade one or other for a net gain.

And you know what also makes my wife happy? Have a successful husband that she is proud of and can tell others about.
 
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xiphoid2010 said:
Its happening again. 🙁

So my CEO forward me this email. A corporate VP is asking for input. As the company is in an expansionary mode, the are in need of someone who is capable of training newly acquired pharmacies and DOPs, and they have identified me as a candidate. Naturally, this role will require significant traveling but also a higher pay.
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Does it look bad on you to go for another job when you've only been in your current role for ~4 months? I know you're still within the same company, but is that still frowned upon?
 
Good luck! Pretty sure you already have your mind made up. Have fun and keep us updated
 
Ackj said:
Does it look bad on you to go for another job when you've only been in your current role for ~4 months? I know you're still within the same company, but is that still frowned upon?
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I don't think so. The company is expanding so they are looking to fill new roles. Besides, it sounds like they want a DOP that will double as a trainer, but will still be based from their original facility rather than the corporate office. He/she will be flying out to train/integrate new pharmacies and be the on going trouble shooter. This traditionally falls on the corporate pharmacy director, but I guess he is needing additional help due to the new facilities. From what I heard the trips are expected to be up to a week at a time.

I told my CEO that I would need a more accurate estimate on how much traveling is required, and up to once month would be fine but more than that would be a significant hardship with 2 babies.
 
Two cents from the perspective of the only kid in town from a "broken home". 🙄 I just want to point out that it is true what they say that it is the quality of the time spent and not the quantity.

My parents split when I was 2 my brother was 1. Seems tragic but my Dad always lived a couple blocks away. When you think about it kids have the same drag a day routines that adults have Mon - Fri. 😵 Who changes the diaper doesn't register. Further my dad was a nursing home inspector for the state and traveled around constantly and yet he still managed to drive me nuts (in a lovely way)😛. The man was a busy body and showed up for everything. He also used to take us (me and my bro) on the road with him when school permitted. We got psyched about trips to Pottstown and Coatsville because there was a pool and we would order room service and watch movies. 😀😀😀

My mother went for a second masters before we entered kindergarten. A masters doesn't take that long to complete and neither my brother or I have any recollection of feeling abandoned. 😱The second masters gave her the leverage to be a more capable single mother.

Summary: you can be omnipresent and work on the road. The fact that you and your wife are in love ...all the better. The topic seems pretty well hammered out already but just some food for thought from a kid who grew up in a seemingly far worse situation. I very much remember being well watched over. 🙂
 
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