AMCAS Parental Income

[PhysMatMan]

My parent's income was very complicated, and I'm wondering if it's bad to put "decline to answer". Although on average it was above 100k, it's not a very good representation since it varied quite a bit.

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[Ismet]

My parent's income was very complicated, and I'm wondering if it's bad to put "decline to answer". Although on average it was above 100k, it's not a very good representation since it varied quite a bit.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that just for demographic purposes? You're not going to be judged for admission based on how much your parents make. Financial aid stuff comes much later when you get accepted. If you don't want to answer, don't answer, but it doesn't need to be exact, they won't audit you or anything.

 

[BABSstudent]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that just for demographic purposes? You're not going to be judged for admission based on how much your parents make. Financial aid stuff comes much later when you get accepted. If you don't want to answer, don't answer, but it doesn't need to be exact, they won't audit you or anything.

What are you talking about?!?!? Of course it matters. Part of the LizzyM score involves your parents' income. If I remember right, it is (MCAT + GPA + $100,000)/Parent income. If your parents made millions, you better hope you had a 45 and a 4.0.

Not serious.

It doesn't matter.

 

[PhysMatMan]

Oh, I thought that it was for "holistic" admissions since it was in the disadvantaged section.

 

[MedGrl@2022]

What are you talking about?!?!? Of course it matters. Part of the LizzyM score involves your parents' income. If I remember right, it is (MCAT + GPA + $100,000)/Parent income. If your parents made millions, you better hope you had a 45 and a 4.0.

Not serious.

It doesn't matter.

lol

 

[rudziutki]

If you decline to answer, they will likely assume that you come from a rich household.

 

[DokterMom]

If you decline to answer, they will likely assume that you come from a rich household.

👍

 

[PhysMatMan]

If you decline to answer, they will likely assume that you come from a rich household.

So how would this affect admission? Is it truly just for demographics and not financial aid?

 

[Heavens Cloud]

So how would this affect admission? Is it truly just for demographics and not financial aid?

Yes, it is a part of your demographics. FAFSA is for financial aid, lol.
I guess your parents paid for your college

 

[Ismet]

I guess your parents paid for your college

👎thumbdown why do you say that?

 

[LizzyM]

It is not for financial aid!

AMCAS starts collecting information that it then combines with admission and matriculation data, board scores, 4 and 5 year graduation data, etc to determine predictors of success in medical school. One concern is that students from low income families do not do as well (less likely to graduate in 4 years, or 5) and to be able to test that hypothesis and, if true, to provide additional supportive services to students who may be in need. It also makes it possible to control for family income when examining graduation rates, etc by race given that what is sometimes identified as differences by race are perhaps more correctly identified as differences by family income.

 

[Heavens Cloud]

👎thumbdown why do you say that?

Doesn't know what FAFSA is or how financial aid works...

 

[Ismet]

Doesn't know what FAFSA is or how financial aid works...

He wasn't sure if the parental income he puts on AMCAS plays into admissions. That suggests nothing about his knowledge of FAFSA or financial aid from undergrad, just an unfamiliarity with AMCAS.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

It is not for financial aid!

AMCAS starts collecting information that it then combines with admission and matriculation data, board scores, 4 and 5 year graduation data, etc to determine predictors of success in medical school. One concern is that students from low income families do not do as well (less likely to graduate in 4 years, or 5) and to be able to test that hypothesis and, if true, to provide additional supportive services to students who may be in need. It also makes it possible to control for family income when examining graduation rates, etc by race given that what is sometimes identified as differences by race are perhaps more correctly identified as differences by family income.

LizzyM: Is there also a push to gradually move the median parental income down from the current $100k+ per year to something that approaches median US household income, or are most administrators satisfied with the current trend?

 

[Narmerguy]

LizzyM: Is there also a push to gradually move the median parental income down from the current $100k+ per year to something that approaches median US household income, or are most administrators satisfied with the current trend?

I imagine the concern is less with trying to "push" the median to a lower value so much as making sure that they seek out and remove barriers in the system that make it difficult for certain subsets to succeed.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM: Is there also a push to gradually move the median parental income down from the current $100k+ per year to something that approaches median US household income, or are most administrators satisfied with the current trend?

I don't see any desire on the part of adcom members to discriminate against the children of high income families (including most children of physicians, lawyers, engineers and business executives).

There is an interest in putting financial resources into the picture when considering how students spent their free time in college -- considering, for example, that some low income students had to sacrifice volunteer activities for paid work to help support their parents and siblings and/or themselves.

 

[sinombre]

I don't see any desire on the part of adcom members to discriminate against the children of high income families (including most children of physicians, lawyers, engineers and business executives).

There is an interest in putting financial resources into the picture when considering how students spent their free time in college -- considering, for example, that some low income students had to sacrifice volunteer activities for paid work to help support their parents and siblings and/or themselves.

...and study time.

🙁

 

[mzarrowsmith]

I don't see any desire on the part of adcom members to discriminate against the children of high income families (including most children of physicians, lawyers, engineers and business executives).

There is an interest in putting financial resources into the picture when considering how students spent their free time in college -- considering, for example, that some low income students had to sacrifice volunteer activities for paid work to help support their parents and siblings and/or themselves.

Curious if you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

Like African Americans and Hispanics, low-income students are underrepresented in medicine. I wouldn't think that giving special consideration to the latter group would be any different that the first two, but I understand why it is unpopular in the Ivory Tower.

 

[LizzyM]

Curious if you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

Like African Americans and Hispanics, low-income students are underrepresented in medicine. I wouldn't think that giving special consideration to the latter group would be any different that the first two, but I understand why it is unpopular in the Ivory Tower.

What is the question?

 

[Espadaleader]

All of these groups receive special treatment. Blacks and Hispanics have lower educational outcomes even when you control for race, that is why socioeconomic and racial factors are considered in admissions.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

What is the question?

Do you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

 

[Ismet]

Do you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

is that a sentence? 😕

 

[LizzyM]

Do you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

Medical school adcoms want to admit people who:

1) have a passion and an interest in serving the public as physicians
2) have the academic preparation and work ethic to succeed academically
3) have the maturity, character, and social skills needed to succeed
4) personal experience that will contribute to the learning environment

Is it possible that some African Americans and Hispanics have these characteristics? If no African Americans or Hispanics were admitted to medical school there would still be >15,000 white and Asian applicants who are not admited to any school. Does the consideration given to some whites and Asians represent discrimination against other whites and Asians?

 

[mzarrowsmith]

I'm just perplexed why giving special consideration to one underrepresented group (people from a low-income background) would be viewed as discrimination against the better-resourced group (people from a high-income background) when the goal is to increase representation of the underrepresented group. My understanding is that the same is not true for racial considerations.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm just perplexed why giving special consideration to one underrepresented group (people from a low-income background) would be viewed as discrimination against the better-resourced group (people from a high-income background) when the goal is to increase representation of the underrepresented group. My understanding is that the same is not true for racial considerations.

You asked,

Originally Posted by mzarrowsmith
LizzyM: Is there also a push to gradually move the median parental income down from the current $100k+ per year to something that approaches median US household income, or are most administrators satisfied with the current trend?

No there is not a "push" to move median parental income down as if a high median parental income is an undesirable trait among medical students.

There is an effort underway to consider family income during childhood and thus the "disadvantaged" question has been around for years. Trying to better tease out the interaction between race and familyl income in the association between race and medical school success has led AAMC to request income information of all applicants.

As best I can tell, this is being used for data analysis and not for purposes of admission decisions.

If you have a problem with 10% of the seats in medical school being occupied by black and Hispanic applicants, take it somewhere else.

 

[jaywsgz]

they will likely assume that you come from a rich household.

 

[Redpancreas]

Curious if you consider extra consideration given to African Americans and Hispanics discrimination against whites and Asians?

Like African Americans and Hispanics, low-income students are underrepresented in medicine. I wouldn't think that giving special consideration to the latter group would be any different that the first two, but I understand why it is unpopular in the Ivory Tower.

Man...so many threads on this already and you've phrased this very awkwardly so I don't know exactly what you're asking but I think I have an idea.

🙁

By the way, that table that shows the ethnicity categories that you refer to that I'm sure everyone's seen...keep in mind that that is admission % to any medical school. There are a good deal of underrepresented minorities that are admitted to school's with an underrepresented mission. I think that's one of the reasons the % for underrepresented ethnicities is so high.

 

[PhysMatMan]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I guess I will list the average income as long as it's considered neutral and not negative.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

You asked,

No there is not a "push" to move median parental income down as if a high median parental income is an undesirable trait among medical students.

I suppose this is where we part ways somewhat. I do think the degree to which household income of matriculants is skewed to the upper range (i.e."10 percent of accepted medical students come from the two lowest quintiles of family income compared to more
than 75 percent accepted from the upper two quintiles") is an issue that should be addressed with more aggressive tactics akin to the way racial imbalances in medicine are treated.

This is not to say that coming from a high-income family is an undesirable trait for a individual applicant. However, the end result of the current system is a population of physicians that does not mirror the population they serve (in terms of socioeconomic status).

I think that's a problem. You might disagree. That's totally ok. Nonetheless, it seems that things are slowly moving in that direction, which I see as a positive.

 

[LizzyM]

I suppose this is where we part ways somewhat. I do think the degree to which household income of matriculants is skewed to the upper range (i.e."10 percent of accepted medical students come from the two lowest quintiles of family income compared to more
than 75 percent accepted from the upper two quintiles") is an issue that should be addressed with more aggressive tactics akin to the way racial imbalances in medicine are treated.

This is not to say that coming from a high-income family is an undesirable trait for a individual applicant. However, the end result of the current system is a population of physicians that does not mirror the population they serve (in terms of socioeconomic status).

I think that's a problem. You might disagree. That's totally ok. Nonetheless, it seems that things are slowly moving in that direction, which I see as a positive.

Consider that the population of recent college graduates does not mirror the age matched US population in terms of family income in childhood. Ditto for the population of recent high school graduates. In all education, the deck is stacked toward higher income families. The public policy solutions to that problem are well beyond the duties and reponsibilities of med school adcoms.

 

[GoPelicans]

Consider that the population of recent college graduates does not mirror the age matched US population in terms of family income in childhood. Ditto for the population of recent high school graduates. In all education, the deck is stacked toward higher income families. The public policy solutions to that problem are well beyond the duties and reponsibilities of med school adcoms.

You could basically apply this entire statement to the logic of admitting URMs with lower stats. Why are lower-income or disadvantaged students (IE students from backgrounds that better mirror the average patient population) 'beyond the duties and responsibilities of med school adcoms' but URMs are not?

 

[dahassa]

I think perhaps there is a slight misunderstanding. What LizzyM stated is that medical schools do not try to skew the population of their medical school to match the average US household (changing the median from $100k to $50 for example). In the same way that medical schools dont try to skew the population of URM students to match the actual US population. black/Latino students make up 25% of the US population and only 10% of medical students.

However, they do look at the disadvantaged status. Particularly, if that status effected undergraduate performance (worked 40hrs a week, supported family, ect.) In the same way minority status depends on the school, so does disadvantages status. I know for a fact my Alma Mater tried activley to recruit lower income individuals who were interested in serving their community and lower income minority students. However, being "rich" isn't a disadvantage either.