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Hey everybody, does anybody have the MGMA/AMGA physician compensation numbers for 2016? Thanks!
Is the answer not obvious to you?you're a student ... why do you need this?
To choose a specialty accordingly...you're a student ... why do you need this?
you're a student ... why do you need this?
Because its an issue, Its not the glory days here you guys graduated with 4ok in loans. People are hitting 300k in debt nowadays
OP: recent AMGA
http://www.cejkasearch.com/physician-compensation-report/
That's because they are total compensation numbers (salary plus benefits). A lot of people mistake MGMA compensation for salary because they don't understand the distinction.These numbers seem ridiculously inflated...
That's because they are total compensation numbers (salary plus benefits). A lot of people mistake MGMA compensation for salary because they don't understand the distinction.
That's because they are total compensation numbers (salary plus benefits). A lot of people mistake MGMA compensation for salary because they don't understand the distinction.
25-30% of salaryWhat are average benefits worth?
There are. Keep in mind these benefits often include malpractice, paid retirement funds, CME expenses, paid vacation, health insurance, dental, vision, etc. Taking a month and a half off if you make 480k a year, for instance, is worth 60k. A premium health plan for a family of four can run in the range of 30k. Malpractice can be 10-200k or more, depending on specialty. If you've got a group-funded retirement contribution, that can be 50k+. Only people that don't understand money look only at the salary of a position when determining how much they are "making," as your total compensation can include a lot of very, very valuable benefits.Ah that would make sense. Although they still seem overinflated, unless there are docs receiving 100k in benefits
These numbers seem ridiculously inflated...
Here is the link for the MGMA data, this should probably be stickied or something, people keep asking for it.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mgma-2015-data.1150951/#post-17273604
These sample sizes are a joke! What kind of idiot would pay for this data? It is absolute garbage, unless I am very much misinterpreting "provider count."
that link if NOT the entire data. it is some summary type thing
the real MGMA report is much, much longer and contains tons of more cool things
Its the gold standard that most groups base salary off of. And its not an insignificant sample size, make sure you are reading the graph correctly. You bash every salary report that gets posted here, will you not be happy until some report shows you physicians are making 150k across the board? The only thing left is medscape, with has similar numbers and even smaller sample size.
I want to ask you, how much did you think physicians made? And where did you get your info?
Don't know which "groups" you're referring to, but the large hospitals that own medicine are not using the numbers, I assure you. 150K sounds about right for most non-procedural hospitalists. When we show grossly exaggerated numbers like this to the public, all it accomplishes is a guaranteed decrease in compensation. If people are truly making this much, then they must be really dumb to actually report that. This will absolutely attract public ire and Medicare slashes are all but guaranteed when you trumpet numbers like this. So yes, I think 150k is the compensation I will be using as the gold-standard to refer to physician reimbursement.
Additionally, these data suggest a large gap in compensation between specialists and primary care doctors, which would seem to drive medical students away from PCP. For these reasons, I declare this survey an absolute load of **** and a scorn upon our profession.
AMENLike I said before, graduating residents here are signing for 220-240k for primary care and hospitalist jobs. Go to the IM forum and they talk about salary there all the time. Unless they are working in New York or in academics nobody is taking 150k nowadays. Sweetheart if you want to work for 150k t0 appease your appetite for self martyrdom, go ahead. As for me, I will have about 270k in loans to pay off so will ask for what Im worth. Also, a lot of people in the public are aware of the sacrifices and length of training it takes to be a doc and think they should get paid well.
Don't know which "groups" you're referring to, but the large hospitals that own medicine are not using the numbers, I assure you. 150K sounds about right for most non-procedural hospitalists. When we show grossly exaggerated numbers like this to the public, all it accomplishes is a guaranteed decrease in compensation. If people are truly making this much, then they must be really dumb to actually report that. This will absolutely attract public ire and Medicare slashes are all but guaranteed when you trumpet numbers like this. So yes, I think 150k is the compensation I will be using as the gold-standard to refer to physician reimbursement.
Additionally, these data suggest a large gap in compensation between specialists and primary care doctors, which would seem to drive medical students away from PCP. For these reasons, I declare this survey an absolute load of **** and a scorn upon our profession.
Actually that is quite false. Around 2010-2011, radiology was the lucky recipient of insane compensation cuts. One of the many factors that lead to this was internet forums of people sharing the money they were making.We either have strong self hate going on here, or else paranoia. The MGMA and AMGA data exist; not mentioning it on SDN is not going to affect whether this data is used by "the powers that be" to cut our compensation. So either chill over stuff that is completely outside of your control, or else stop hating yourself and enjoy 'dem checks.
Actually that is quite false. Around 2010-2011, radiology was the lucky recipient of insane compensation cuts. One of the many factors that lead to this was internet forums of people sharing the money they were making.
source: radiologists themselves who've been around for a while.
We either have strong self hate going on here, or else paranoia. The MGMA and AMGA data exist; not mentioning it on SDN is not going to affect whether this data is used by "the powers that be" to cut our compensation. So either chill over stuff that is completely outside of your control, or else stop hating yourself and enjoy 'dem checks. Financiers, actors and professional athletes turn in their sleep at night over missed opportunities to make even more money, not over guilt at how much they did make.
It's a big strange world out there so I'm not gonna say it definitely didn't happen, but I would love to know exactly how these radiologists knew that it was internet discussions that prompted their reimbursement cuts. I can't imagine CMS explicitly including forum chatter as part of their budgeting process. Sounds to me like the genesis of this most recent paranoia by FiveOclock was an original bout of paranoia by frustrated radiologists who had just received pay cuts. I'm open to being proven wrong by actual evidence, however.
Its obviously not just SDN. Its publication of the results in all forms. So yes there is very much reason to paranoid. If you believe you're going to receive compensation equal to what is on those charts for the next 30 years, then you have lost your mind. I would be extremely paranoid if I were you. I would also expect compensation to be halved in the near future.
Will compensation be cut? Wouldn't doubt it.
Will we avoid some of these cuts if only we stop discussing MGMA salary data on SDN? lol no.
And by the way, third party payors can only cut so far before the third party payer system goes away. Dentists won't do a filling for under $100 and surgeons won't cut for less than $XXX. We are already close to $XXX for many physicians, and once we slip below $XXX only those who can pay >$XXX out of pocket will get care. To believe otherwise is to think that insurance companies and the government can provide universal healthcare while simultaneously lowering costs by 90% simply by setting the maximum reimbursement of any medical service, whether it be a night at the hospital or an 8hr spine surgery, at $100. The world doesn't work like that. If they could cut our salaries by half, they'd have done it already. Nobody leaves money on the table.
Woefully optimistic view. The government already owns healthcare and could make you work for free. It would not be called slavery, I assure you. If you are told by the government gods to cut for $100, you will cut for $100 or will not be practicing.
Maybe. But I can also assure you that nobody is going to cut for $100. What you are discussing now is not so much the ever tenuous topic of physician compensation, but a wholesale destruction of extremely basic constitutional (or even human) rights. It's one thing to be worried about salaries dropping from 450k to 420k, quite another to think they will drop to 150k through a multitude of completely unconstitutional government diktats. That is veering into hysteria.
If this ever happens, physician salaries will be the least of physicians' worries, and so this scenario doesn't even belong in a discussion of salaries but in a "what will you do when Nazis/Commies take power and bring back Gulags" thread. And all this for what, so that the measly 10% of total healthcare costs represented by physician salaries are cut in half, saving the system a breathtaking 5%? I'm not seeing it.
No its not a doomsday 20th century scenario. Have you ever heard of any of the following countries: Canada, Sweden, Germany, England? They all pay doctors nothing and they all essentially require you to accept whatever compensation is offered by the government. Docs in Germany make 50k. Why do you think they all move here? Anyway with our contingent of lazy malcontents that make up "the 47%" its only a matter of time.
The fields are vastly different. Choose the one that suits you bestThanks for the responses everybody! I didn't expect such a simple question to generate so much buzz. I can't decide between surgery and medicine... as in I really can't decide. I was thinking salary would be the coin that flips me but it looks like it's honestly kinda the same for medical specialists vs surgeons?
No its not a doomsday 20th century scenario. Have you ever heard of any of the following countries: Canada, Sweden, Germany, England? They all pay doctors nothing and they all essentially require you to accept whatever compensation is offered by the government. Docs in Germany make 50k. Why do you think they all move here? Anyway with our contingent of lazy malcontents that make up "the 47%" its only a matter of time.
I don't think you're correct. As I recall, MGMA data, which is not the same as above, but seems similar, doesn't include the value of all benefits, but does include all the financial compensation. For example, the $20k for my family health insurance or my disability insurance wouldn't be included, but the $52k retirement plan would, as well as all bonuses and call compensation.I also believe these reports have different numbers for academics, which would otherwise generally bring the average down
also just throwing it out there this is 2015, based on 2014. not 2016 as the OP asked for
Every practice is going to be set up differently regarding how benefits are paid out. Either they pay them for you, or you pay for them with increased income yourself. My group's contribution to my benefits, etc. are at least $100k, and include malpractice, disability, Heath/dental/vision, retirement, etc. there are advantages and disadvantages to different set ups, so every group is going to work differently, and probably think their way is the best. It's important to figure all this out so you can compare apples to apples when comparing offers, particularly if some are W2 and others are 1099. That complicates things even more and may require paying an accountant to explain some things to you.Ah that would make sense. Although they still seem overinflated, unless there are docs receiving 100k in benefits
Now, I'm not advocating that we switch to these healthcare models but doctors are well paid in most countries (France and Japan being notable countries where they are paid a lot less)
I remember reading somewhere a few years back that the average dentist in Japan was making about the equivalent of $60k USD annually
So I hate to ask again but does anybody have any data from 2016? The data that was posted earlier was from 2015. Thanks,
Ugh. Please try and understand. I like them both. I have thought about this from every angle. I am agonizing over this and I can't make up my mind and my 4th year schedule has to be set like NOW. The heme oncs I talk to say to do surgery. The surgeons say to do medicine. How does compensation compare between surgery and medical specialists? Please somebody tell me?
For my internal medicine rotation I just did a bunch of hospitalist medicine. I didn't get to do cardiology service, hematology service, etc. I have to wait until 4th year to do that and I can't afford to waste precious months before the match applications are due. Please somebody just tell me what the f to do. I like them both!!