Number of publications needed

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Just like the title says, what is a respectable (not outlier) number of peer reviewed publications one would expect for a decent ENT, or uro applicant?

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[rulerkk]

Advice from PD in one of those fields:

2 first author pubs in the respective field would open the interview door at the vast majority of programs in the country

 

[operaman]

Agreed. 2-3 good first author papers (ie not just case reports) would be great. This tends to come with presentations /posters on the same material that also boosts the CV. A few middle author spots in addition wouldn’t hurt either.

If you took a research year the expectations may be slightly higher but most people tend to be very productive during these. If you take one just be sure you come out with something the show for it.

But 2-3 first author pubs shows everyone that you can get a project from A to Z.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Ha. Anyone with two brain cells sees through all this these days...

Fortunately... most physicians don't have that many.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Ha. Anyone with two brain cells sees through all this these days...

Fortunately... most physicians don't have that many.

The way I've heard some PDs talk about pubs over the last year has led me to the same conclusion. It's like you're looking at some kind of research arrested development, where these assistant and associate professors never left the med student mindset of thinking of research as a numbers game. That's how we wind up with so much trash. Even the people doing and evaluating the research have no real interest in creating work that truly pushes the field forward.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ha. Anyone with two brain cells sees through all this these days...

Fortunately... most physicians don't have that many.

The way I've heard some PDs talk about pubs over the last year has led me to the same conclusion. It's like you're looking at some kind of research arrested development, where these assistant and associate professors never left the med student mindset of thinking of research as a numbers game. That's how we wind up with so much trash. Even the people doing and evaluating the research have no real interest in creating work that truly pushes the field forward.

All well and good, and I think this argument has been made several times in other threads. But it is more or less irrelevant to the OP's question, which is simply what the expectation is for these specific fields.

 

[operaman]

Oh yeah I definitely wish it would change. The numbers clearly show that the vast majority of surgical sub specialists do not end up in academic medicine and even of those who do, even fewer do much research. So we’re essentially training clinicians but demanding medical students pretend to be academics in order to get in.

Frankly I think it’s because we don’t have a better way to evaluate applicants. It seems every metric out there is trending toward unranked p/f or some system where applicants all look alike. Research and the letters you get as a result are one of the few ways people can differentiate. But sadly it does become somewhat of a numbers game as people churn and burn crap papers. And then other people do a meta analysis of those crap papers and call that level 1 evidence. Sigh.

But yeah at least 2-3 to keep the door open.

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

Advice from PD in one of those fields:

2 first author pubs in the respective field would open the interview door at the vast majority of programs in the country

I'm not sure why I expected this number to be much higher.

 

[operaman]

I'm not sure why I expected this number to be much higher.

Remember that’s first author pubs. Not case reports. Not posters or abstracts or presentations. Not middle author pubs. Actual first author papers where you drove the project from A to Z.

Plenty of applicants have more mind you, especially those that take a year off for research, but a couple good FA papers says you can get work done. Don’t forget that those 2 pubs also probably had a poster at a regional meeting and a presentation at a national one to go along with it. And they’re probably a middle author on their buddy’s first author pubs and all those abstracts and posters etc.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an app with only 2 first author pubs and nothing else research related. That would probably not impress much and look really odd. But a couple solid first author pubs and a smattering of other stuff is pretty common.

 

[rulerkk]

If context helps, I had 1 FA published manuscript, 2 more FA manuscripts in submission, 1 2nd author manuscript in submission, and 2 more middle author publications in submission in September when I applied. Had a few more projects in the pipeline that I didn't list on the application since they were still in draft, but talked about over interviews.

I think my total abstracts, presentations, posters, and pubs totaled a little over 30. This was done over 5 years, with another graduate degree earned along the way. Coming from a T10 med school,

15 interviews, a couple of waitlists, and matched my #1. This was for ENT in this year's cycle

 

[Hzreio]

The way I've heard some PDs talk about pubs over the last year has led me to the same conclusion. It's like you're looking at some kind of research arrested development, where these assistant and associate professors never left the med student mindset of thinking of research as a numbers game. That's how we wind up with so much trash. Even the people doing and evaluating the research have no real interest in creating work that truly pushes the field forward.

This highly varies depending on where you are. You think faculty at top research institutions are pushing out trash? Absolutely not, and guess what the med students that work under these attendings will also not be pumping out trash either. Look at the CVs of faculty at top research institutions if you don't believe me

 

[SurfingDoctor]

This highly varies depending on where you are. You think faculty at top research institutions are pushing out trash? Absolutely not, and guess what the med students that work under these attendings will also not be pumping out trash either. Look at the CVs of faculty at top research institutions if you don't believe me

Yeah, no this isn’t correct at all. Most faculty CVs are padded with more junk than a drug dealers mattress. The amount of back scratching and gift authorships on JAMA articles about how if you get oxygen, you stay in the hospital longer, is just the proof in the pudding.

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Yeah, no this isn’t correct at all. Most faculty CVs are padded with more junk than a drug dealers mattress. The amount of back scratching and gift authorships on JAMA articles about how if you get oxygen, you stay in the hospital longer, is just the proof in the pudding.

You sound more pessimistic than a Titanic lookout spotting an iceberg.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

15

 

[EthylMethylMan]

You sound more pessimistic than a Titanic lookout spotting an iceberg.

How’d it work out for the Titanic?

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

How’d it work out for the Titanic?

It didn’t help.