AMGA/MGMA numbers in 2016

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
FiveOClock said:
Ah that would make sense. Although they still seem overinflated, unless there are docs receiving 100k in benefits
Click to expand...

That also depends on the field. I've talked to a spine surgeon that paid almost 100k/yr just in malpractice, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear some of the higher paid or medically liable fields receiving benefits well over 100k when everything is taken into account.
 
I think there are a couple complicating factors that make my decision especially difficult. I have UC and associated spondyloarthropathy, but ever since I started taking biologics I have been practically asymptomatic. Should I make this decision as if I never had aching back pain?

I also have *extensive* research in hematology oncology. I enjoy research a lot, and I would miss the lab. On the other hand, I enjoy being in the OR too and I know I would be jealous of my friends if I never got to operate again. I also think that if I was in clinic all day I would get real bored real fast.
 
ItsAboutThePatient said:
I think there are a couple complicating factors that make my decision especially difficult. I have UC and associated spondyloarthropathy, but ever since I started taking biologics I have been practically asymptomatic. Should I make this decision as if I never had aching back pain?

I also have *extensive* research in hematology oncology. I enjoy research a lot, and I would miss the lab. On the other hand, I enjoy being in the OR too and I know I would be jealous of my friends if I never got to operate again. I also think that if I was in clinic all day I would get real bored real fast.
Click to expand...

I would definitely take the UC into account. I do not know any surgeons with IBD. Not that they don't exist, just I have not met them or they have not shared this with me. Point is, I have no one to ask about this. I would be more concerned about the potential for arthritis and the effect this could have on your fine motor skills. Also, I do know some non-physicians with IBD and they get pretty wiped out with flare-ups. They also seem to flare-up more when stressed, exhausted, etc. Not that stress does not occur in heme/onc, it certainly does. However, the long hours and physical stress of surgery complicates the issue.

If you would miss the lab, then surgery probably is not for you. There are surgeons who run successful labs, and I know several. However, for the most part, they provide big picture ideas, write papers, write grants, and hardly every step foot in the lab except maybe for weekly lab meeting. Also, NIH is pretty restrictive on how much research time you need to qualify for an R01 and it can be hard (not impossible) to get this kind of time as a surgeon.

I guess you need to decide which you would miss more - research or the OR.

Heme does minor procedures - LPs, bone marrow biopsy/aspirate. You could also consider procedure heavy medicine subspecialties like GI.
 
Yeah my bowel stuff is pretty much non-existent, but I have far and few between bad days of axial arthritis
 
ProfMD said:
On average, the surgeon will make about $100,000 more per year than the oncologist. This is for academics anyway, not sure about private practice. This is also pretax.

However, you need to decide if you want to be a surgeon or a medicine doc. Take surgical oncology for instance, do you want to take out the tumor then send the patient to oncology for adjuvant therapy or do you want to send the patient to the surgeon and get the patient back when they are ready for adjuvant therapy.

Surgery or medicine. You must decide. Forget about the money. By the time you take taxes out, the difference won't mean a whole lot with regards to lifestyle. Plus, reimbursements are changing for everyone, so you do not know what it will be like in 5-10 years when you finish training. Also, you may decide you do not want to treat cancer. What subspecialty do you want then? Something medical or something surgical?
Click to expand...

The difference is noticeable. Especially the escape velocity. I wouldn't parse differences 50,000 or less (though even that is not a small sum). But that extra 100k or more goes to making sure you retire early, your kids go to school without loans, and you'll have a lot more to leave when you go. You are correct smart people don't just dump that into a bigger house or a Maserati (even though you can) but finding that escape velocity is huge.
 
And the MGMA numbers are about right for salaries in my field. I'm talking base pay check monies not bennies. Just FYI.
 
jdh71 said:
And the MGMA numbers are about right for salaries in my field. I'm talking base pay check monies not bennies. Just FYI.
Click to expand...

Really. That's interesting. I'm getting offered about 100-150k less than the numbers for my field currently, granted that's academic not private practice but still.
 
MediCane2006 said:
Really. That's interesting. I'm getting offered about 100-150k less than the numbers for my field currently, granted that's academic not private practice but still.
Click to expand...

That's why. Academics is going to pay less. Most of the MGMA numbers are coming from folks outside of academics.
 
MGMA also publishes numbers for academic physicians. However, I have seen a wide variety of salaries for academic jobs. Some places seem to think that he title "assistant professor" is worth a lot more than it is. Harvard (whom I do not work for) is notorious for this.
 
I have some friends that took academic jobs starting at 200k but after the first few years were making double. Is it possible they offer you little to start to make sure you're not a greedy bastard?
 
It is highly job dependent. Some places will give you a larger salary with a smaller productivity bonus, other places will pay you based mostly on productivity with a smaller base salary. Some places will cover your research time, others won't (except initially) and will expect you to get salary support from grants. Some places give you more money with academic promotion, others don't. Some give you extra money if you take on a leadership role (chief, chief, program director, assistant program director, etc).
 
ItsAboutThePatient said:
I think there are a couple complicating factors that make my decision especially difficult. I have UC and associated spondyloarthropathy, but ever since I started taking biologics I have been practically asymptomatic. Should I make this decision as if I never had aching back pain?

I also have *extensive* research in hematology oncology. I enjoy research a lot, and I would miss the lab. On the other hand, I enjoy being in the OR too and I know I would be jealous of my friends if I never got to operate again. I also think that if I was in clinic all day I would get real bored real fast.
Click to expand...

I don't think surgery would be a good option. Your UC is controlled now, but the stress of residency, esp a surgical residency, could lead to flares. Being scrubbed in a long surgery isn't an ideal environment for someone with UC, in training or practice. More importantly tho, I think your back problems are the bigger issue you should consider. This could significantly effect your career as a surgeon.

Have you thought about GI? It's the best of all worlds...procedure oriented, short procedures, mix of clinic and hospital work, good mix of critically ill patients vs rather healthy ones. And ur compensation will be more than heme/onc and many sugical fields. I would do medicine and then decide what subspecialty appeals to you the most, but I think surgery is a bad idea for the above reasons.
 
Also, I was equally as torn as you regarding surgery vs medicine as a student. I'm so happy in GI, it was the best compromise.
 
gi2014 I really appreciate your opinion. I have given GI some thought. I think I'm going to do it. You convinced me. IT'S MEDICINE BABY!
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
Will compensation be cut? Wouldn't doubt it.

Will we avoid some of these cuts if only we stop discussing MGMA salary data on SDN? lol no.

And by the way, third party payors can only cut so far before the third party payer system goes away. Dentists won't do a filling for under $100 and surgeons won't cut for less than $XXX. We are already close to $XXX for many physicians, and once we slip below $XXX only those who can pay >$XXX out of pocket will get care. To believe otherwise is to think that insurance companies and the government can provide universal healthcare while simultaneously lowering costs by 90% simply by setting the maximum reimbursement of any medical service, whether it be a night at the hospital or an 8hr spine surgery, at $100. The world doesn't work like that. If they could cut our salaries by half, they'd have done it already. Nobody leaves money on the table.
Click to expand...
Try denying $XXX when you're 400k in debt and it's the only job available.
 
ItsAboutThePatient said:
The AMGA numbers for 2016 just came out; does anybody have them? Thanks!
Click to expand...
It's actually against copyright law to post them, aside from what is publicly available on their site, so posting data you can't google would be a TOS violation.

And is there anything you care about other than money? I mean, nothing wrong with that but it seems like your name should be ItsAboutTheMoney.
 
Just an FYI -
I arrived at this page after googling MGMA survey data - haven't been to SDN in 10+ years I suspect. We're hiring another doc in my group so I sought the most recent data (I have MGMA 2014 survey - based on '13 data).

Anyway, a few thoughts.

RE: Specialty Selection
If you LOVE one thing - then do it. If you like a lot of things, then it's a decent idea to weigh factors like $, lifestyle, rigor of training, etc. into your decision.
I really enjoyed most of my clinical rotations but in the end was fairly certain I'd end up a vascular surgeon. Then, I did a month of interventional radiology. Then I learned that my attending was off 13wk/yr. Then I learned what they earned. Then I considered the pathways/training. You get the point I'm sure.

For me, IR was a great choice. I earn obscene money and the vacation is more ridiculous. I have minimal clinic time and that's fine with me. I also spend about 1/4 of my time in diagnostic. While I don't find that part terribly stimulating - it's easier than my IR days and pays the bills/keeps the imagers happy. We do everything with a catheter outside the heart (PAD, carotid stents/stroke, ablations/TACE, trauma, etc.).

RE: Salary
Both the AMGA and MGMA gross salary figures are low for me. I'm a private practice IR doc in a medium sized southern city. The place is fine - not spectacular - but I took the best job of the 6-7 offers I had emerging from fellowship. I started out just over $300k on a 2 yr partnership track with annual increases. At partner income is much higher - and no MD's get vaca remotely comparable. One of the hospital employed general surgeons gets 4wk PTO - which is ludicrous - and that poor bastard is q3!?! I don't know a rad getting less than 8-10wk off up to 17.

It's stating the obvious, but what people need to consider about these surveys is they are just estimates. The trends/hierarchy are generally valid, though.
-Nobody in my group EVER fills out a salary survey or lets anyone know what we earn/how much PTO we get. Few high earners seek to share that information IMO. The specialties at the top of these lists are inevitably chopped down by CMS or whatever.
-Salary is highly dependent on geography. A doc in Boston or Tampa might make 1/2 of my income or less. It's similar for other specialties I'm certain.
-Academics is always less $$...and generally slower pace/less work...just like the VA. That doesn't mean it's not enough. I like to work my ass off - so none of that was for me. My attitude was if I was a 90th percentile producer I wanted at least 50th+ percentile $.

In the end, I wasn't about to go through 10 yr of training after college/grad school and not be financially secure. I don't really care much about money/stuff - but I don't like debt and do like the freedom $ affords me. I won't retire at 50 (with my vaca why would I?) but I could and that's a good feeling.

If you love things other than medicine, then select a specialty that might allow you to pursue those endeavors. I'm passionate about my job - but it's still a job. That stated, most days I feel like I'm stealing...and then before I know it I'm off for a week.

Good luck all...and please consider that maybe there is no wrong decision/specialty choice?!
 
Last edited:
LSUwannabe said:
Just an FYI -
I arrived at this page after googling MGMA survey data - haven't been to SDN in 10+ years I suspect. We're hiring another doc in my group so I sought the most recent data (I have MGMA 2014 survey - based on '13 data).

Anyway, a few thoughts.

RE: Specialty Selection
If you LOVE one thing - then do it. If you like a lot of things, then it's a decent idea to weigh factors like $, lifestyle, rigor of training, etc. into your decision.
I really enjoyed most of my clinical rotations but in the end was fairly certain I'd end up a vascular surgeon. Then, I did a month of interventional radiology. Then I learned that my attending was off 13wk/yr. Then I learned what they earned. Then I considered the pathways/training. You get the point I'm sure.

For me, IR was a great choice. I earn obscene money and the vacation is more ridiculous. I have minimal clinic time and that's fine with me. I also spend about 1/4 of my time in diagnostic. While I don't find that part terribly stimulating - it's easier than my IR days and pays the bills/keeps the imagers happy. We do everything with a catheter outside the heart (PAD, carotid stents/stroke, ablations/TACE, trauma, etc.).

RE: Salary
Both the AMGA and MGMA gross salary figures are low for me. I'm a private practice IR doc in a medium sized southern city. The place is fine - not spectacular - but I took the best job of the 6-7 offers I had emerging from fellowship. I started out just over $300k on a 2 yr partnership track with annual increases. At partner salary is much more and no MD's get vaca remotely comparable. One of the hospital employed general surgeons gets 4wk PTO - which is ludicrous - and that poor bastard is q3!?! I don't know a rad getting less than 8-10wk off up to 17.

It's stating the obvious, but what people need to consider about these surveys is they are just estimates. The trends/hierarchy are generally valid, though.
-Nobody in my group EVER fills out a salary survey or lets anyone know what we earn/how much PTO we get. Few high earners seek to share that information IMO. The specialties at the top of these lists are inevitably chopped down by CMS or whatever.
-Salary is highly dependent on geography. A doc in Boston or Tampa might make 1/2 of my income or less. It's similar for other specialties I'm certain.
-Academics is always less $$...and generally slower pace/less work...just like the VA. That doesn't mean it's not enough. I like to work my ass off - so none of that was for me. My attitude was if I was a 90th percentile producer I wanted at least 50th+ percentile $.

In the end, I wasn't about to go through 10 yr of training after college/grad school and not be financially secure. I don't really care much about money/stuff - but I don't like debt and do like the freedom $ affords me. I won't retire at 50 (with my vaca why would I?) but I could and that's a good feeling.

If you love things other than medicine, then select a specialty that might allow you to pursue those endeavors. I'm passionate about my job - but it's still a job. That stated, most days I feel like I'm steeling...and then before I know it I'm off for a week.

Good luck all...and please consider that maybe there is no wrong decision/specialty choice???
Click to expand...


This is a great post. People don't often take vacation into consideration when discussing compensation. Radiology is excellent in that most private practice doctors are getting 8-14 weeks vacation or more (telerads sometimes even having a 1 week on, 2 weeks off schedule for nights). If you were able to compile a dollar/hour list, rads would be near the top. It's one of the benefits of not having clinic/patients/etc. that need followed up.
 
Cubsfan10 said:
This is a great post. People don't often take vacation into consideration when discussing compensation. Radiology is excellent in that most private practice doctors are getting 8-14 weeks vacation or more (telerads sometimes even having a 1 week on, 2 weeks off schedule for nights). If you were able to compile a dollar/hour list, rads would be near the top. It's one of the benefits of not having clinic/patients/etc. that need followed up.
Click to expand...
14 wks?
 
W19 said:
14 wks?
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you take a job in the Midwest/South, you can get 8-14 weeks vacation easily. If you take a job in the Northeast, you can live in a closet, make barely more than a CRNA, and maybe get to swap Thanksgiving for Christmas every 5 years or so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
MGMA Salary Data Up to Date?
Replies
0
Views
875
coconutlover
C
Kierkegaard's Bud
Number of publications needed
Replies
14
Views
3K
Kierkegaard's Bud
Kierkegaard's Bud
I
Geographic Bias in IM
Replies
12
Views
1K
Dr. Robb Bassett
Dr. Robb Bassett
D
Psychiatry residency: number of publications needed
Replies
1
Views
1K
Just D.O. it
Just D.O. it
L
Interested in Radiation Oncology
Replies
3
Views
1K
lost_in_da_Sauce
L
Top