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amount of volunteering.. IS SHE USING ME?
- Thread starter hkim1026
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im still not sure what it means exactly, but i think you are getting "pimped" 
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I do not think you are necessarily getting used.
Experience is a form of payment. Do you feel the actual work you will be doing is worth it? I "volunteered" last summer doing research. Two of my mentors pulled me aside and said that because I wasn't getting paid, they would be more than happy to provide me with recommendations in the future as a payback. Not only was this extremely valuable to me, but the actual work I did was awesome. This later turned in to a job offer for this summer.
But I whole heartedly believe in the concept that experience is a form of payment, and as an undergrad student, the best form of payment.
I'd also like to add that, if you don't see it this way, then you'll never be happy with volunteering and will probably end up being bitter. That's what happened to me (but in reverse), I had a high paying internship but felt I was getting hosed on experience...I became very bitter. It's all about doing what you value most, experience vs money.
Experience is a form of payment. Do you feel the actual work you will be doing is worth it? I "volunteered" last summer doing research. Two of my mentors pulled me aside and said that because I wasn't getting paid, they would be more than happy to provide me with recommendations in the future as a payback. Not only was this extremely valuable to me, but the actual work I did was awesome. This later turned in to a job offer for this summer.
But I whole heartedly believe in the concept that experience is a form of payment, and as an undergrad student, the best form of payment.
I'd also like to add that, if you don't see it this way, then you'll never be happy with volunteering and will probably end up being bitter. That's what happened to me (but in reverse), I had a high paying internship but felt I was getting hosed on experience...I became very bitter. It's all about doing what you value most, experience vs money.
Oh yes i do feel like i am learning a lot and i do love it, it is just that i feel that she is expecting too much time from me.
tho i understand that the research does take time and all, it is hard for me to believe if there are people who volunteer that much of time in a week.
or are there?
tho i understand that the research does take time and all, it is hard for me to believe if there are people who volunteer that much of time in a week.
or are there?
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Some people can and want to. For various reasons. Perhaps they have fulfilled all the pre-reqs and are just taking time off.
The point is, you just have to do what's best for you.
If it's not working for you, then you should leave.
If you have 40+ hours a week and you want to do it, then do it.
But it never sounded like she coerced you in any way...
...
EXACTLY. lol
40+ hours/week? hmm.. i dont know. i want to study for MCAT
and MCAT is my #1 priority and it is going to be the determinant for getting into the med school.
i also work at a retirement home.. so do you think this research really necessary?
To be frankly, more than anything i wanted a LOR from a credible faculty at school..(not the only reason why i chose to volunteer but majorly)
my boss at retirement home, she is a CNA and is "less credible" vs phd student or professor.
so do you think i should come back to her?
40+ hours/week? hmm.. i dont know. i want to study for MCAT
and MCAT is my #1 priority and it is going to be the determinant for getting into the med school.
i also work at a retirement home.. so do you think this research really necessary?
To be frankly, more than anything i wanted a LOR from a credible faculty at school..(not the only reason why i chose to volunteer but majorly)
my boss at retirement home, she is a CNA and is "less credible" vs phd student or professor.
so do you think i should come back to her?
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unless you are really interested in the work, i would leave. 40+ hours of volunteering each week seems ridiculous. I didn't have any lab experience, but i was able to secure a paid lab position. Just look around some more.
thanks! i think i ll start looking elsewhere lol
R
Red Leader
Damn that's a smart grad student. I'm gonna use that trick hehehe
ya. i felt the same way.. i mean. i dont mind volunteering for a couple hours per week or so. but 40+ volunteering i guess its better off studying harder for MCAT.
thanks!
LOL so you think she's using me?
some of my friends suspected that she would make it sound like she wants the best for me and give me all these work, and just not pay me for the research
where i feel kinda naive.. about the situation, i personally dont believe it's true but who knows?
the researchers CAN do that, use undergrads to do the work and save money.
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If you were in her situation, what would you think about it?
R
Red Leader
Well what I meant was that there are 2 possibilities given that grad students just want to work and graduate and not be bothered with undergrads:
1) doesn't want to teach you and gives you ridiculous conditions like 40+ hours a week + driving just to work with him and do b1tch work. if you decline he wins because now he loses you as a burden
2) if you accept at least he gets someone to get the bitch work off his chest, so win here again
Both are genius and result in positive outcomes for the grad student, hence I will learn from this mastermind of manipulation in the future.👍
You may be getting taken advantage of but from how you explain your experience, I don't think that's the case. There is definitely a trade off when it comes to hours in a lab. Don't expect to come into a lab and jump into a project by working one day a week. At one day a week, you will be doing grunt work with maybe occasional asides describing what you're doing. If you want more exposure, you have to give more time. Since this is volunteering, that additional time is up to you, not some post-doc.
Clearly state what kind of hours you are capable of commiting to and ask her if that works for her. Don't let her tell you how much you will be working. This is volunteering and if you can commit to a minimum time requirement (eg 6 months) and are coming in weekly, anything additional is up to you.
Clearly state what kind of hours you are capable of commiting to and ask her if that works for her. Don't let her tell you how much you will be working. This is volunteering and if you can commit to a minimum time requirement (eg 6 months) and are coming in weekly, anything additional is up to you.
well- i guess i dont know all the possible situations that grad students go through.
thanks, i actually sorta asked her that i do about 8 hours (1 full day)
a week and she said i wont get anything out of it from just doing 8 hours of volunteering in the lab- which i understand but i guess i priortize MCAT more than the lab research.
Since i ll be a senior, i m planning to take the mcat soon and from my previous practice mcat score, i have to say i need some quality time to spend studying for mcat. but being in the lab for 20-40 hours a week sound like i would have no life whatsoever especially with working.
but then again, i really did enjoy having the responsiblity of doing the research, and from the research i guess i expected the return of the good recommendation letter.. hm. dillemma.
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actually, I was in a similar situation... worked in a lab 30 miles away from my house over the summer, about 35 hours/week for FREE (yes, I paid for gas too). I learned a lot and do you know what happened the next summer? I got a research fellowship in the lab for a $10k stipend. it was worth it. I'm not saying this is your situation, but it's not like NOTHING can come of it...
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I think this is probably the majority of the problem. You are just trying to fill a blank on your AMCAS with as little work as possible, and it's probably pretty obvious to the lab. They really do not care about you getting into med school, your other time commitments, or anything like that. They care about the research being done in their lab. If you want to have success volunteering with researchers, you have to actually show interest in the lab and treat it like they were paying you to do the work, because in a sense, they are. You aren't getting money, but you are getting experience, an impressive entry on your AMCAS, and possibly a good recommendation.
You are pretty useless to them coming in for 8 hours one day a week, and in any position like that you will probably be relegated to bitch work. It is pretty hard to get you involved in running experiments and analyzing data when you are only there one day a week.
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True. And with this in mind, maybe you can ask to do half a day every day or four days a week (five hours a day or so). I don't know what to do about the driving missions. I just did research through my university and never had to worry about it.
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im still not sure what it means exactly, but i think you are getting "pimped"
Close, but it really refers to a senior physician battering a junior physician/student with hard questions. e.g. "My attending just pimped the s*** out of me on hypercalcemia."
I have nothing to add to the OP's actual discussion.
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Are you getting used? YES you are because you arent getting paid, but she is right. You cant expect to get significant results or get the full experience just working 10 hrs a week.
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My advice: try to find a paid internship program in the R&D department of some company, rather than an unpaid 40 hr/week lab position. One of the very few advantages of being a science major is that you shouldn't need to work for free before you start getting paid.
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Done this, corporate work not nearly as good or productive as academic research...except for the money. Its what you value more though, money or experience
whats R&D department?
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oh thank god.
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Instead of asking for money ask for course credit and authorship. I have done thousands of hours of "volunteer" research for the past few years and have not been paid a cent. However, I have 20 credit hours and 2 publications out of it.
If you are spending 40 hours a week I would imagine you should deserve authorship.
If you are spending 40 hours a week I would imagine you should deserve authorship.
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It's one, then the other. You go to the internship as early as possible (Summer after Freshman year) to get paid while getting some experience on your resume. Then you go get a paid lab position in academia on the strength of that resume. The idea is to never be working for free.
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Id peace out of that "lab" asap
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her lab, her project, her funding, therefore her choice.
and i disagree with several posts here. i think many dont realize volunteering is not one sided, you are not the only person giving up your time and your effort.
you just need to ask yourself what you want out of it and if you think it is worth it. but this grad student is not being unreasonable.
it is a fact that there are plenty of people who literally just work and volunteer every minute of their lives (i'm sure this includes premeds). But you can't judge for them whether their volunteering is "worth it" or not.
and i disagree with several posts here. i think many dont realize volunteering is not one sided, you are not the only person giving up your time and your effort.
you just need to ask yourself what you want out of it and if you think it is worth it. but this grad student is not being unreasonable.
it is a fact that there are plenty of people who literally just work and volunteer every minute of their lives (i'm sure this includes premeds). But you can't judge for them whether their volunteering is "worth it" or not.
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it is obvious this doctoral student failed to gain acceptance to medical school and is currently levying her frustration on hapless pre-meds who are altruistically donating their invaluable time (provided it is completely convenient for them to do so) solely out of the sheer goodness of their full sized aortic pumps. she is clearly committing an ethical/moral violation by asking you to integrate yourself more significantly into the project and it is an absolute outrage she refused to fund the octane necessary to fuel your journey to conduct this service.
very true. the grad student herself is giving up her time and effort to teach me and give me the opportunity to learn but i guess i was just overwhelmed with the amount of studying that i had to do and i wasnt sure if i can do intensive studying for MCAT+ X amount of hours of volunteering
the research at biochemistry has been very helpful in my knowledge especially because my major is social science and i wouldnt learn stuff that i do at biochem lab research in my major classes.
i guess i was just confused because this is my first time being in the lab and i didnt know if i were the "exception" that was being exploited for free labor- i didnt know better.
thanks for your advice.!
