AMPHETAMINE usage for testing purposes

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How often do you use prescription stimulants before taking a test in med school?

  • Never have, never will

    Votes: 247 68.0%
  • Never have, but am highly considering it

    Votes: 40 11.0%
  • I have before, but will probably not do it again

    Votes: 18 5.0%
  • I use them sometimes, especially before really big tests

    Votes: 28 7.7%
  • I use them for almost every exam

    Votes: 30 8.3%

  • Total voters
    363
  • Poll closed .
4th yr and about to graduate in a few weeks. Methamphetamine has different effect on kids cause their physiology is different than in adults. I'm sure addiction potential in kids is different too. For adults, meth is meth. Its like saying small amount of cocaine wont get you addicted.

Congrats on finishing, must be nice:thumbup:
I see your point, but as link pointed out they are completely different potencies. Its like saying someone has the same chance of addiction with weed and with crack.
Its just annoying that people put a prescribed medication in the same class as crystal meth and some people look down on people for it.

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I don't know how it's a poor sample group. Just about everyone on here is a medical student. And out of the people I actually know (in real life) on sdn, they are from all different geographical and political backgrounds.

The results surprise me as well, but that's science for you. Your hypothesis may not always be right and you might learn something you weren't expecting to....

;)

The title of the poll is biased. When you put something that rhymes with "methamphetamine" in the title, of course people will say no. It's the automatic "just say no to drugs" reflex.

If you titled it; "Would you ever try Adderall in med school?", the results would be a lot different. Adderall is pervasive in our society and is looked at pretty innocuously.
 
Forgive me for being ignorant having never used any prescription stimulants (and having not had caffeine in years), but don't amphetamines just make you jittery if you don't actually have ADD/ADHD. It's supposed to provide a calming effect in those patients but a stimulant effect in unaffected individuals. Is that stimulant effect necessarily an advantage studying wise? Does that still improve focus? My impression was that those medications only really improve your studying/focus if you have the condition. Please let me know if I'm wrong. Just curious about how/if they actually work if one does not have the condition (non-prescribed meds). Thanks!
 
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Forgive me for being ignorant having never used any prescription stimulants (and having not had caffeine in years), but don't amphetamines just make you jittery if you don't actually have ADD/ADHD. It's supposed to provide a calming effect in those patients but a stimulant effect in unaffected individuals. Is that stimulant effect necessarily an advantage studying wise? Does that still improve focus? My impression was that those medications only really improve your studying/focus if you have the condition. Please let me know if I'm wrong. Just curious about how/if they actually work if one does not have the condition (non-prescribed meds). Thanks!

They did a study where it showed that it actually improves cognitive abilities (i.e makes you "smarter") in those without ADD/ADHD as well. as for making you jittery, i think it depends on the amount you take and i feel like it's a case by case basis. some people drink one cup of coffee and are off the walls.. where as some people drink six and are good (tolerance++)
 
They did a study where it showed that it actually improves cognitive abilities (i.e makes you "smarter") in those without ADD/ADHD as well. as for making you jittery, i think it depends on the amount you take and i feel like it's a case by case basis. some people drink one cup of coffee and are off the walls.. where as some people drink six and are good (tolerance++)

Can you link this study? Would be a good read:thumbup:
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

OK? It's not a good thing, nobody would disagree with you there I'm sure.

Is it better to be wide awake and focused while on amphetamines or tired and error-prone, though?
 
Having never taken adderall I can't really say how much more it helps than caffeine which usually just lasts an hour. I heard it gives you focus and impulse control whereas with caffeine I am all over the place. Either way, it's unfair because it's not accessible to everyone, that's the difference. If it were legal for everyone to take it would be different. I think there is a toll though, probably emotionally and a slight moral one too. Not that I'm trying to be judgmental here but good old hard work is worth more in the grand picture.

I took Adderall XR and later Vyvanse throughout college and graduate school (for a legit purpose). Let me tell you, this stuff does not necessarily give you a leg up. All it will do is give you energy and make you jittery. If your baseline level of anxiety is rather high, I would not suggest taking them. That being said, it gives you energy to study and helps you focus. That's about it. Caffeine can do the same thing. Even better is good sleep hygiene and self-determination.

I took adderall around finals time in undergrad out of desperation, and it was something magical. Crammed a semesters worth of anatomy into 48 hours - B+. Didn't retain a damn thing, of course, but I can definitely see how it gives people a huge leg up.

Haven't taken it since then, though. I would never want to be dependent on a drug to study.
 
I took adderall around finals time in undergrad out of desperation, and it was something magical. Crammed a semesters worth of anatomy into 48 hours - B+. Didn't retain a damn thing, of course, but I can definitely see how it gives people a huge leg up.

Haven't taken it since then, though. I would never want to be dependent on a drug to study.

This x10 (unless you have a legit attention deficit disorder).

And no. Caffeine does not equal adderall.Yeah, I get it, they're both stimulants, but completely different mechanisms of action. It's like comparing an opioid based analgesic to a NSAID. (In response to comparisons between caffeine and adderall earlier in the thread).
 
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Alcohol's good too! Gets rid of those shakes, perks you up a bit too for a short period if you use it properly. I mean if you're gonna compare adderal to one non-prescription drug, may as well compare it to all. Hell, compare it to nicotine if you want, that's got stimulant properties.

Or if you want to stick to just stimulants, you can compare it to non-overdose cocaine. I've known med students who use cocaine to study. It's just as legal if you're not prescribed Adderal. Just don't leave it at caffeine. Not saying it's bad or wrong. Just saying you can't pick and choose a comparison and leave it at that.
 
Alcohol's good too! Gets rid of those shakes, perks you up a bit too for a short period if you use it properly. I mean if you're gonna compare adderal to one non-prescription drug, may as well compare it to all. Hell, compare it to nicotine if you want, that's got stimulant properties.

Or if you want to stick to just stimulants, you can compare it to non-overdose cocaine. I've known med students who use cocaine to study. It's just as legal if you're not prescribed Adderal. Just don't leave it at caffeine. Not saying it's bad or wrong. Just saying you can't pick and choose a comparison and leave it at that.

Seriously....dafuq
 
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And no. Caffeine does not equal adderall.Yeah, I get it, they're both stimulants, but completely different mechanisms of action. It's like comparing an opioid based analgesic to a NSAID. (In response to comparisons between caffeine and adderall earlier in the thread).

No one argued that caffeine equals adderall. If you're going to have poor reading comprehension, at least try not to be so condescending about it.

People have mostly been bringing caffeine into the discussion either with explicit statements that caffeine is a different, milder drug than adderall, or else in response to the posters in this thread who get all high and mighty in their principled stand against using drugs to enhance performance. If it's really a matter of principle that one not use any sort of performance enhancing drug, then the details of mechanism of action are completely irrelevant. If you're looking at mechanism of action, efficacy, side effects, addictiveness, etc, then you've already accepted that if the cost-benefit analysis is on the balance positive, it'd be reasonable to take any particular drug.
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

Hmm... this poll wasn't about people abusing amphetamines. Obviously that is bad and unethical for anyone, anywhere.

I'd guess the vast majority of amphetamine users go to their physician monthly and do it because they had trouble concentrating at some point in their life. Granted for a majority of med students this likely started in med school. This is not abuse, this is the entire purpose/function of the drug.
 
People like to think that, but it's not really true at all...if someone can sit and read Robbins or Harrison's 12 hrs/day, and enjoy it, they're going to have a pretty strong understanding of medicine.

These meds probably do help people learn and retain more knowledge. What's sad is what they do to them socially and emotionally. It makes them into drones. It's not natural to get dopamine from pills instead of healthy activities, relationships, living a normal life, etc. But then again it's not natural to learn this much information either.

retalin.png

Too true.

That strip is probably the saddest cartoon I've ever seen. Brings a tear to my eye.
 
Hmm... this poll wasn't about people abusing amphetamines. Obviously that is bad and unethical for anyone, anywhere.

I'd guess the vast majority of amphetamine users go to their physician monthly and do it because they had trouble concentrating at some point in their life. Granted for a majority of med students this likely started in med school. This is not abuse, this is the entire purpose/function of the drug.

There's tons of people splitting rx's with friends and even more going to the doctor "for adderall," even getting "diagnosed" for the first time in med school (despite needing symptoms before age 12).

A1. Inattention: Six (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is inconsistent with developmental level and that impact directly on social and academic/occupational activities.

a. Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or during other activities (e.g., overlooks or misses details, work is inaccurate).

b. Often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities (e.g., has difficulty remaining focused during lectures, conversations, or reading lengthy writings).

c. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly (e.g., mind seems elsewhere, even in the absence of any obvious distraction).

d. Often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (e.g., starts tasks but quickly loses focus and is easily sidetracked; fails to finish schoolwork, household chores, or tasks in the workplace).

e. Often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities (e.g., difficulty managing sequential tasks; difficulty keeping materials and belongings in order; messy, disorganized, work; poor time management; tends to fail to meet deadlines).

f. Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (e.g., schoolwork or homework; for older adolescents and adults, preparing reports, completing forms, or reviewing lengthy papers).

g. Often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., school materials, pencils, books, tools, wallets, keys, paperwork, eyeglasses, or mobile telephones).

h. Is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli (for older adolescents and adults, may include unrelated thoughts).

i. Is often forgetful in daily activities (e.g., chores, running errands; for older adolescents and adults, returning calls, paying bills, keeping appointments).
-Proposed DSM-V

Who doesn't that apply to? There's definitely lots of medical and college students and people elsewhere going in to get stimulants...because they help...regardless. Pretty rampant in educational settings I've seen.
 
There's tons of people splitting rx's with friends and even more going to the doctor "for adderall," even getting "diagnosed" for the first time in med school (despite needing symptoms before age 12).


-Proposed DSM-V

Who doesn't that apply to? There's definitely lots of medical and college students and people elsewhere going in to get stimulants...because they help...regardless. Pretty rampant in educational settings I've seen.

What's your point? Why are you so concerned with what other people are doing? If used responsibly, these medications can help people achieve their goals. Great. If they're used irresponsibly, that falls on the person abusing them and they will suffer the consequences--just like with irresponsible smoking, drinking, driving, f*cking, and almost anything else in life. You need to get it out of your head that everyone is going to have the same work ethic, background, skills, and (yes) brain chemistry as you. People are going to take ADHD meds, get over it.
 
I've been using adderall for 5 years now (not in med school though). I find that taking it during an exam can be a huge mistake, particularly if there's a time constraint.


That being said, it does help with late nights of studying... but I feel like sometimes if I take it too much, my mind gets fuzzy and I become a 'zombie'. It's good for busy work, reading boring material, and staying awake ;) I try not to use it so much though, as I think after awhile I get immune to its effects...



I refuse to take concerta though... My few times on it, I was a zombie, and coming off of it I would often feel physically ill.
 
If you guys really need a stimulant that works well for tests but doesn't have the properties of caffeine then you need to try the preworkout supplement called Craze. It's a mix of stimulant herbs in powdered form mixed with grape flavor which works really well. It's different in that it works to help you completely focus instead of getting amped up. You don't get the jitters on the stuff and there is no crash at the end. If you take only 1 scoop and don't take it after 6 or 7 it doesn't impact your sleep either.

It's short duration though so if you're interested in 100-hour study marathons it won't help for that unless you keep taking it I guess. It says never to exceed 2 scoops in a 24 hour period. I've never needed to so I don't know what happens if you disregard that warning.
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

Sure. In fact, I'd rather have my physician take a small dose of amphetamine than chug coffee if he was seriously tired since caffeine can be relatively ineffective, anyways. Our government allows Air Force fighter pilots to take amphetamine at their own discretion to avoid fatigue and the use is monitored by flight surgeons...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/ns/us_news-only_on_msnbc_com/t/go-pills-war-drugs/#.T7MPietST-4
 
Dude I use adderall to study for exams but I don't use them during the exam because Even though I focus a lot it slows me down exponentially.
 
I haven't used them, but I've seen my classmates sharing their meds. I think only one of them has a diagnosis and prescription, but almost the whole group takes them. Scary.
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

What the hell does this have to do with anything? "ABUSE those amphetamines"..... It isn't ok for a physician to abuse ANY MEDICATION while treating patients. Do I give a **** whether my physician takes 2 amphetamine pills per day per his prescription? No....
 
It isn't normal to consider meth the ultimate study drug. But on SDN it is.
 
You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

Air force pilots are given stimulants to stay awake and alert on extremely long flights. Is using stimulants to be awake enough to provide patient care more or less ethical than using them to protect civilians?


I think what people are upset about is the fakers who don't actually need the pills to study. They don't have any learning disability. They just take them because it makes studying easier.

Not even the psychiatrists who wrote it think that the DSM really has the perfect handle on ADHD. I mean we don't even understand most of the pathophysiology of it. When we take kids out of an academic setting where they are expected to sit still and watch a lecture or do paperwork for 7 hours they seem to not manifest the symptoms as much. ADHD is not some black and white, check yes or no diagnosis. What if someone has just a few of the symptoms on the DSM list? Does that mean that it is suddenly unethical for them to take stimulants to study because they don't manifest 5 of the criteria that we have put up to describe a thing that we barely understand? We used to call Asperger's sufferers "weird." Now we say that they're "on the spectrum." I imagine that some day we will find a similar spectral pattern to ADHD symptoms.

Who doesn't that apply to? There's definitely lots of medical and college students and people elsewhere going in to get stimulants...because they help...regardless. Pretty rampant in educational settings I've seen.

Which is part of the reason why ADHD is still a controversial illness. I think once you've seen a few really ADHD kids in clinic you have trouble saying that there's nothing at all to it, though. I'm not sure that they aren't better treated by adapting their surroundings instead of giving them stimulants - but changing the setting and way in which they learn is a whole lot harder and mom and dad probably don't have the money to pay for an understanding private teacher every day. So we use stimulants. Part of the reason is really the child being distractable and hyperactive, part of the reason is the setting in which the child finds himself. And like I'm sure we've all noticed setting can play a big part in how we feel and how we are able to concentrate. Medical school made anyone else feel a little burned out? Hard to concentrate? Not as easily interested in the material?

Disclaimer: I have never used any stimulants other than caffeine to which I am addicted. I'm just trying to say that this issue isn't so clear cut as either side is arguing.
 
The idiots that claim that it gives them superhuman concentration to study are the same idiots that get drunk off of O'Doul's.

Yes, it helps to keep one awake, and may heighten concentration somewhat, but it's not "the answer." If it was, everyone that took it would be in the top quartile.
 
There's tons of people splitting rx's with friends and even more going to the doctor "for adderall," even getting "diagnosed" for the first time in med school (despite needing symptoms before age 12).

So you're assuming that just because someone is diagnosed with it in medical school that they didn't show symptoms before age 12.

I've had "symptoms" my whole life, but I knew a kid in elementary school that had ADHD and was medicated for it, but he was predominantly hyperactive. The kid bounced around and was a constant distraction. I knew that wasn't me. Until we had a lecture from a psychiatrist on what ADHD is (during medical school orientation), I always thought that it just fit into that patient subtype.
 
Which is part of the reason why ADHD is still a controversial illness. I think once you've seen a few really ADHD kids in clinic you have trouble saying that there's nothing at all to it, though. I'm not sure that they aren't better treated by adapting their surroundings instead of giving them stimulants - but changing the setting and way in which they learn is a whole lot harder and mom and dad probably don't have the money to pay for an understanding private teacher every day. So we use stimulants. Part of the reason is really the child being distractable and hyperactive, part of the reason is the setting in which the child finds himself. And like I'm sure we've all noticed setting can play a big part in how we feel and how we are able to concentrate. Medical school made anyone else feel a little burned out? Hard to concentrate? Not as easily interested in the material?

Disclaimer: I have never used any stimulants other than caffeine to which I am addicted. I'm just trying to say that this issue isn't so clear cut as either side is arguing.


Exactly my feelings. I have a script for amphetamine salts, but it's nearly a year old now. I do what I can to not use it because everyone else is going through the same thing, but they (most) don't use stimulants to help them out. I think that environment goes a long way, so I study in an area without distractions (I don't bring a laptop) that is completely silent without a "study buddy."

Besides, I don't want a physician that "needs" stimulants to be my doctor, so why should I not have the same attitude for my patients?
 
question to the yes votes...

You've gotten past all the big scary med school tests and now you're actually a practicing doctor. Is it OK for a physician to abuse those amphetamines when caring for patients?

What if you're on overnight call and you're really tired?

Didn't answer the poll, but if my surgeon or whatever is on call and really tired, I would prefer that they do take a stimulant. It works for military pilots.

I think it's less ethically problematic for a practicing physician than for someone taking an exam or playing baseball: taking people's life in your hands is not a competition where one might care about avoiding performance-enhancing substances so that there's a level playing field. On the contrary - if something will enhance your performance when other people's lives are in your hands, I think the more relevant question is whether you are ethically obligated TO take it.
 
Didn't answer the poll, but if my surgeon or whatever is on call and really tired, I would prefer that they do take a stimulant. It works for military pilots.

I think it's less ethically problematic for a practicing physician than for someone taking an exam or playing baseball: taking people's life in your hands is not a competition where one might care about avoiding performance-enhancing substances so that there's a level playing field. On the contrary - if something will enhance your performance when other people's lives are in your hands, I think the more relevant question is whether you are ethically obligated TO take it.

Word.
 
The title of the poll is biased. When you put something that rhymes with "methamphetamine" in the title, of course people will say no. It's the automatic "just say no to drugs" reflex.

If you titled it; "Would you ever try Adderall in med school?", the results would be a lot different. Adderall is pervasive in our society and is looked at pretty innocuously.

I figured as medical students we wouldn't let a brand name cover up what it really is. But I guess you're right, a lot of med students probably don't realize that Adderall and Ritalin aren't just "study drugs", but a just the most basic form of "speed".

It's like calling Botox a "muscle relaxer"... hahaha
 
This thread is disturbing.
 
Risky Rise of the Good-Grade Pill

At high schools across the United States, pressure over grades and competition for college admissions are encouraging students to abuse prescription stimulants, according to interviews with students, parents and doctors. Pills that have been a staple in some college and graduate school circles are going from rare to routine in many academically competitive high schools, where teenagers say they get them from friends, buy them from student dealers or fake symptoms to their parents and doctors to get prescriptions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/e...mic-edge-teenagers-abuse-stimulants.html?_r=1

And a response in Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthew...bout-adhd-drugs-the-new-york-times-didnt-ask/
 
Doesn't your med school degree become worthless if you become addicted to meth (amphetamines) and cant function as a doctor? I've seen enough addicts in the ER to know it completely ruins your life. Its just like in high school when the addicts where telling everyone they have control over their addiction, but eventually their addiction took over their life.

Um, are you seriously comparing methamphetamine to low dose amphetamine salts? Different pharmacokinetics and different pharmacodynamics, not to mention different chemical structure. Come on man this is med school...
 
Um, are you seriously comparing methamphetamine to low dose amphetamine salts? Different pharmacokinetics and different pharmacodynamics, not to mention different chemical structure. Come on man this is med school...

Actually... Methamphetamine gets a nasty reputation since it is made by illegal meth labs and is used by drug addicts (usually at a huge dose anyway). It's actually one of the most misunderstood drugs in my opinion. If you were to take prescription Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine) instead of something like Adderall, which contains both the dextrorotatory and levorotatory enantiomers of amphetamine, you would probably have less of the side effects of Adderall. Levoamphetamine can have different effects on different people. Some people hate it, and some feel it gives them the boost. Desoxyn on the other hand, being methamphetamine, is fat-soluble, so it will cross into the brain easier. It can be taken at a significantly lower dose, and patients that currently take it for ADHD or other conditions say that they have a much better experience with this drug. Since methamphetamine also acts on serotonin (which is why meth addicts get euphoria from it), it can actually have a more calming effect to.

So for many people, methamphetamine is actually a significantly better alternative compared to either mixed amphetamine salts, or dextroamphetamine. Some patients comparing Desoxyn versus Adderall said that it's even less stimulating than Adderall, believe it or not.

Illegal production of methamphetamine has definitely given a bad image to drugs like Desoxyn. It's actually a very viable alternative to Adderall or Dextroamphetamine (or Vyvanse), but I doubt most psychiatrists will prescribe it due to the reputation given to methamphetamine.
 
Actually... Methamphetamine gets a nasty reputation since it is made by illegal meth labs and is used by drug addicts (usually at a huge dose anyway). It's actually one of the most misunderstood drugs in my opinion. If you were to take prescription Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine) instead of something like Adderall, which contains both the dextrorotatory and levorotatory enantiomers of amphetamine, you would probably have less of the side effects of Adderall. Levoamphetamine can have different effects on different people. Some people hate it, and some feel it gives them the boost. Desoxyn on the other hand, being methamphetamine, is fat-soluble, so it will cross into the brain easier. It can be taken at a significantly lower dose, and patients that currently take it for ADHD or other conditions say that they have a much better experience with this drug. Since methamphetamine also acts on serotonin (which is why meth addicts get euphoria from it), it can actually have a more calming effect to.

So for many people, methamphetamine is actually a significantly better alternative compared to either mixed amphetamine salts, or dextroamphetamine. Some patients comparing Desoxyn versus Adderall said that it's even less stimulating than Adderall, believe it or not.

Illegal production of methamphetamine has definitely given a bad image to drugs like Desoxyn. It's actually a very viable alternative to Adderall or Dextroamphetamine (or Vyvanse), but I doubt most psychiatrists will prescribe it due to the reputation given to methamphetamine.

Desoxyn is rarely prescribed. I personally know dozens of people taking adderall. I don't know a single person on desoxyn.

Why?

There is much more of a eurporhic feeling associated with it (aka incr addictive chance). Adderall is already schedule 2 and one of the most abused drugs out there. Except in exceeding rare circumstances should it be prescribed.

No doctor wants a pill bottle with their name on it being sold somewhere on the streets.
 
Desoxyn is rarely prescribed. I personally know dozens of people taking adderall. I don't know a single person on desoxyn.

Why?

There is much more of a eurporhic feeling associated with it (aka incr addictive chance). Adderall is already schedule 2 and one of the most abused drugs out there. Except in exceeding rare circumstances should it be prescribed.

No doctor wants a pill bottle with their name on it being sold somewhere on the streets.

That's a good point. In regards to meth though, why would a meth addict opt to buy Desoxyn? Isn't their "hit" of meth a significantly higher dosage than a 5mg or 10mg pill of Desoxyn?
 
That's a good point. In regards to meth though, why would a meth addict opt to buy Desoxyn? Isn't their "hit" of meth a significantly higher dosage than a 5mg or 10mg pill of Desoxyn?

Right...but they aren't taking it q daily, bid, or tid.

Addicts likely take the whole bottle (31 pills = 155mg) over the course of a few days for a "multi-day high." They know pill form is quality "meth" and advertised potency (remember most street drug dealers mix "fillers" into the drugs to increase volume and scam the addicts).

Its actually kinda sad...when I was in the ED for my psych rotation you could figure out what day of the month social security checks would arrive, then add 4-5 days (for them to acquire the drugs, to get high and run out money/drugs). The following 2 days marks the busiest time in the ED for withdrawals and drug abuse issues by a large margin.

According to the psychiatrist I worked with, drug dealers make over half of their monthly profits from those 4 days.
 
Right...but they aren't taking it q daily, bid, or tid.

Addicts likely take the whole bottle (31 pills = 155mg) over the course of a few days for a "multi-day high." They know pill form is quality "meth" and advertised potency (remember most street drug dealers mix "fillers" into the drugs to increase volume and scam the addicts).

Its actually kinda sad...when I was in the ED for my psych rotation you could figure out what day of the month social security checks would arrive, then add 4-5 days (for them to acquire the drugs, to get high and run out money/drugs). The following 2 days marks the busiest time in the ED for withdrawals and drug abuse issues by a large margin.

According to the psychiatrist I worked with, drug dealers make over half of their monthly profits from those 4 days.

That's absolutely nuts that drug dealers make all of their money in just a few days! :eek: I've volunteered in a quiet suburban ED and never saw a patient that came in for any drug issues. I am sure that this will change when I rotate at an intercity ED.

I also didn't realize that addicts would take a whole bottle! That must be a ridiculously expensive habit, when Desoxyn to begin with is expensive even with insurance. I think after watching enough "Breaking Bad," I assumed most street meth was high quality. I guess not! After watching "Drugs Inc" on Nat Geo (amazing show, I highly recommend it), I realized that dealers put a lot of crap in as fillers.

Aside from this and back on topic, I wonder how many students actually abuse Adderall or other amphetamines to actually get high? I hear people talking about illegally using them to study all the time, but never mention getting high or wanting to take them for the purpose of getting high.
 
4th yr and about to graduate in a few weeks. Methamphetamine has different effect on kids cause their physiology is different than in adults. I'm sure addiction potential in kids is different too. For adults, meth is meth. Its like saying small amount of cocaine wont get you addicted.

o_O Well shiii-iiiiit. I have a few thoughts.

(1) I'm nervous about you becoming a physician.

(2) Please lets try to have a conversation when I do not take my CRAZY ADDICTIVE ERMAHGAD meth. I'm sure my ADHD will derail the convo numerous times.

(3) Wow, you have great perspective. I am very excited for you to go forward and spread the word about how stimulants = cocaine. Would you mind if I joined forces with you and talked about how children's tylenol is just as bad as morphine? I think we would make quite the team.

(4) I was being entirely facetious in my previous point.
 
Besides, I don't want a physician that "needs" stimulants to be my doctor, so why should I not have the same attitude for my patients?


Please indicate if you do not think that ADD/ADHD is a "real" diagnosis or not (bear with me for lack of better way to express that one)

If you do believe that it is a real diagnosis, please indicate if you would be OK visiting a diabetic physician who needed to take insulin daily in order to function normally.

If you do not believe that it is a real diagnosis, not too much more for us to talk about without derailing the thread entirely because we have a fundamental disagreement.
 
I've never taken any of those stimulants, but I have friends in med school on drugs like Adderall and Concerta who have been prescribed them by their doctors and who do not abuse them. They don't have magical supergrades.

And yes the DSM IV states as a diagnostic criteria that ADHD should be diagnosed before age 12. But medicine is not a cookbook, and there are plenty of psychiatrists who don't treat the DSM as their Bible.

If you have a legitimate reason to be on a stimulant medication (including off-label uses) and you're not snorting it or selling it or whatever who the hell cares. You're not going to hurt yourself or get high by taking it orally. I don't give one single rat's arse if my doctor has taken a dose of Adderall before seeing me, that's their own affair.
 
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