AMSA should change their name

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Since their focus apparently has absolutely nothing to do with helping American Medical Students in any way or form, they should consider changing it to something more apt like, "American Socialist Medical Students Association".

Their "priorities" page is sure to mention that they are very concerned with:

Fighting for Universal Health Care
AMSA mobilizes students in advocating for quality, affordable health care for all. AMSA works through state and national coalitions to advocate for a healthcare reform process that involves sequential reform and a single-payer universal healthcare system.

Eliminating Health Disparities

AMSA strives to empower students with knowledge about domestic and global health disparities and provide opportunities for students to take action to eliminate health disparities on the local, state, national, and international levels.

Advocating for Diversity in Medicine
AMSA members work to improve the recruitment and retention of under-represented minorities into medicine while increasing the diversity of its own leadership, in order to create a tolerant, accepting and culturally diverse physician workforce, which can effectively serve our multicultural society.

Transforming the Culture of Medical Education
AMSA advocates for changes in medical education to create a humane and cooperative learning environment and develop physicians worthy of the public trust. There are many ways that AMSA is working toward reform in medical education; these include resident work hour reform, efforts toward medical student well-being, AMSA's PharmFree campaign, and revitalizing professionalism in the medical field.

Yet doesn't even mention the fact that as residents we will no longer be allowed to defer our loans

I guess we better hope that they don't succeed in their PharmFree campaign to do away with Pharm Rep Lunches, or we'll all be eating out of the dumpster.
 
Check out the AAMC's site about recent legislative actions if you want to be especially ticked. They have all of zero notice about this bill and its effects on residents. I've got to say that bugs me more than AMSA since AAMC has legislative experts working for them.

As for AMSA, I'm with them on all those goals, and I'm giving them a little slack here because this issue really blindsided everybody. If they don't address it soon, though, it'll be time to get mad.

Editing to add that I did find a pdf on the AAMC's site about this issue. It doesn't appear that they've done anything about it, though.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/educ/ed0003.htm
 
this argument happens every year around this time. so maybe it's a politically active group that consists of med students whose primary interest is in protecting patients. cut em some slack
 
this argument happens every year around this time. so maybe it's a politically active group that consists of med students whose primary interest is in protecting patients. cut em some slack

And as I argued around this time last year, if they have no interest in supporting policies that HELP medstudents, they should change their names instead of suckering M1s into joining for a *free* Netters (which ironically costs the same price as the membership to AMSA).

I don't have a huge problem with AMSA's support of expanding healthcare coverage, or making sure that gay midget minorities have a chance at getting into medschool. But I DO have a problem with the fact that they just ignore all the issues that actually affect medicalstudents so they can parrot whatever issue sounds good on a bumper sticker.
 
Check out the AAMC's site about recent legislative actions if you want to be especially ticked. They have all of zero notice about this bill and its effects on residents. I've got to say that bugs me more than AMSA since AAMC has legislative experts working for them.

As for AMSA, I'm with them on all those goals, and I'm giving them a little slack here because this issue really blindsided everybody. If they don't address it soon, though, it'll be time to get mad.

Editing to add that I did find a pdf on the AAMC's site about this issue. It doesn't appear that they've done anything about it, though.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/educ/ed0003.htm

BOO AAMC👎thumbdown
 
Yeah wanting everyone to have access to health care is such a crappy idea, damn communists, they should just lobby for us to be paid more. Also, they should blame personal injury attorneys and not insurance companies or god forbid negligent doctors for all malpractice suits. Wait, then they'd be the AMA. 🙄
 
Yeah wanting everyone to have access to health care is such a crappy idea, damn communists, they should just lobby for us to be paid more. Also, they should blame personal injury attorneys and not insurance companies or god forbid negligent doctors for all malpractice suits. Wait, then they'd be the AMA. 🙄

And how does ANYTHING they've supported HELP MEDICAL STUDENTS??? If they wanted to push social justice, they could join ANY NUMBER OF GROUPS. Instead they claim to represent us when instead they represent people who either actively want to screw us, or like you, have their head up their own ass.
 
Yeah wanting everyone to have access to health care is such a crappy idea, damn communists, they should just lobby for us to be paid more. Also, they should blame personal injury attorneys and not insurance companies or god forbid negligent doctors for all malpractice suits. Wait, then they'd be the AMA. 🙄

You know, overall I agree with you about the AMA, but AMSA should address this issue because worsening the debt situation of doctors doesn't benefit patients either. Also, AMSA is supposed to address issues of concern to medical students along with patient care issues, and they have taken stands on various student loan initiatives. So I think one can still be mad at AMSA here without questioning their stance on everything.

Actually, all our groups dropped the ball here. AMA didn't notify us about it until after the fact. The AAMC has done all of nothing about it, and it doesn't seem like the AOA has done much either.

Adding the link to AMSA's mission statement which essentially says they're around to address the needs to physicians-in-training.

http://www.amsa.org/about/

And a statement from AMSA about why student debt matters.

http://www.amsa.org/meded/studentdebt.cfm
 
I agree that the AMSA, along with the AAMC and a lot of other groups, should have been more proactive in the student loan "debt reduction" legislature (speaking of which did anyone figure out how this reduces our debt, because it seriously doesn't, talk about a poorly named bill). But to bitch and moan that they support universal access and somehow imply that doing so is AGAINST the best interest of medical students is pretty stupid and self-centered.

What's with the random personal attack against my head and anus?? 😕 It may be up there but at least it's not up in the nether regions of the AIG CEO.
 
I agree that the AMSA, along with the AAMC and a lot of other groups, should have been more proactive in the student loan "debt reduction" legislature (speaking of which did anyone figure out how this reduces our debt, because it seriously doesn't, talk about a poorly named bill). But to bitch and moan that they support universal access and somehow imply that doing so is AGAINST the best interest of medical students is pretty stupid and self-centered.

What's with the random personal attack against my head and anus?? 😕 It may be up there but at least it's not up in the nether regions of the AIG CEO.

I don't think you'll find many people outside of AMSA who think that Universal Healthcare will in anyway be good for physicians. I've never even heard anyone argue it would be in the interest of physicians for us to turn over all of our professional autonomy to the government. Same goes with arguing that trial lawyers somehow are good for us or the medical system. As I stated previously, its fine if people want to believe advocate these things, but don't do it while telling us that you are representing medical students or in someway Medical Student Advocats.
 
I don't think you'll find many people outside of AMSA who think that Universal Healthcare will in anyway be good for physicians. I've never even heard anyone argue it would be in the interest of physicians for us to turn over all of our professional autonomy to the government.

Universal healthcare is not a system. I'm surprised you would make this rookie error.
 
Universal healthcare is not a system. I'm surprised you would make this rookie error.

Of course it's not a system but when people say "Universal Healthcare" they inevitably mean a socialized, single payer model.

Of course, all of this takes away from the fact that AMSA is ignoring a key issue for medical students and residents.
 
They discussed financial aid and deferrals in their election platform:

http://www.amsa.org/election/platform.cfm

As the AMA site points out (and Mushy posted in other various threads), this was signed on Sept 27 and blind-sided a lot of people. I don't know how often AMSA updates their webpage, but I haven't seen anything come by on their listservs recently. (Although, now that I think about it, they used to send out leg affairs briefs pretty regularly and I haven't gotten those in a long time).
 
Of course it's not a system but when people say "Universal Healthcare" they inevitably mean a socialized, single payer model.

It's okay, man. You can just admit you were mistaken. No big deal. You don't have to engage in such logical contortions to save face.
 
It's okay, man. You can just admit you were mistaken. No big deal. You don't have to engage in such logical contortions to save face.

diaf, I've argued the various types of healthcare to death on these boards.
 
while you are right to critique AMSA for not tending to issues that are especially concerned with medical students in particular, it is hardly blameworthy to complain about the AMSA promoting issues such as access to care and diversity in medicine.

It is not the case that they are "too busy with other stances" to partake in fighting for debt relief, and other issues that are important to medical students as well. No need to get into name-calling about issues that ARE important to medicine, whether they are traditionally championed by the left or the right.
 
And as I argued around this time last year, if they have no interest in supporting policies that HELP medstudents, they should change their names instead of suckering M1s into joining for a *free* Netters (which ironically costs the same price as the membership to AMSA).

I don't have a huge problem with AMSA's support of expanding healthcare coverage, or making sure that gay midget minorities have a chance at getting into medschool. But I DO have a problem with the fact that they just ignore all the issues that actually affect medicalstudents so they can parrot whatever issue sounds good on a bumper sticker.

It's unbelievable how liberal AMSA really is. I totally agree with you on this one. I love how their political "initiatives" always come with an empathetic headline. Most people don't even read the actual bills that they're championing. They just go to the quicky online-write-your-senator link, thinking they're doing a "good thing".....
 
This is exactly why I didn't join AMSA... based on the verbal diahrrea back and forth in threads like this, I never have any damn clue what they really do stand for :laugh:
 
Yeah wanting everyone to have access to health care is such a crappy idea, damn communists, they should just lobby for us to be paid more. Also, they should blame personal injury attorneys and not insurance companies or god forbid negligent doctors for all malpractice suits. Wait, then they'd be the AMA. 🙄
Universal Health care does not necessitate a single payer (government) system to achieve its goals. Pretty much everyone agrees that Universal Health care is a good thing while debate surrounds a single payer system as a means to that end. AMSA's priorities statement indicates that they support the single payer method. There are many reasons why that approach is a BAD IDEA. Check out "Who Killed Health Care" by Regina Herzlinger for an extensive discussion of the problems.
 
So, and I'm being totally serious here, who wants to start an American Medical Students Union.

Look, I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the AMSA, I 100% support diversity, enhanced access to medicine, I do my volunteer work, etc. But these are enourmous problems, and expecting that organization to keep its focus on all of them in addition to representing the rights and concerns of medical students is ridiculous.

The creation of at least a few chapters of a student organization devoted solely to representing students in a legal/ecomomic sense could be beneficial, or at least get AMSA to get its crap together. The platform, while acknowledging the importance of social issues like health disparities, would avoid such things except insofar as they have a direct effect on medical student well-being.

Now, I guess I should have asked, is there already such an organization? If not, anyone interested in getting something together at their school?
 
The three "big" medical student organizations are AMSA, AMA-MSS, and the OSR (the organization of student representatives, which is part of the AAMC).

AMSA has the reputation of being the most "radical" or revolutionary, as pointed out by the nay-sayers on this and other threads. And, they certainly are political beyond the scope of issues that directly affect medical students. (I didn't read the link about their history but my understanding was that they broke away from the AMA because it was too conservative).

Here's the history of the AMA-MSS and AMSA together: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/8799.html

Anyway, it looks like the AMA, in an effort to more directly deal with the issues of medical students, eventually blossomed into the AMA-Medical Student Section. However, again - the focus of the organization is the medical profession and its place in this country, and this is just the student section of that organization.

The OSR, however, is specifically targeting medical education. All AAMC accredited schools are members of the AAMC. As part of that institutional membership, schools are allowed to have 4 student representatives to the OSR. These reps go to national and regional meetings to discuss issues facing medical students directly. There are five broad areas that they focus (medical education, legislative affairs, student well-being, community & diversity, and communications). The OSR also has liaison positions to most of the aspects of the AAMC that affect our lives (MCAT, admissions, ERAS, NRMP, USMLE, LCME, etc etc). However, the OSR has the reputation of being "slower" to respond to change, since it's a consensus driven organization and also part of the larger AAMC. Plus, schools have different levels of involvement (many students are unaware of this organization, whereas other schools incorporate the OSR positions as a key part of their student government and campus presence).
 
Universal Health care does not necessitate a single payer (government) system to achieve its goals. Pretty much everyone agrees that Universal Health care is a good thing while debate surrounds a single payer system as a means to that end. AMSA's priorities statement indicates that they support the single payer method. There are many reasons why that approach is a BAD IDEA. Check out "Who Killed Health Care" by Regina Herzlinger for an extensive discussion of the problems.

A well-written post with real information on SDN completely without flame? whoa. 👍
 
Check out the AAMC's site about recent legislative actions if you want to be especially ticked. They have all of zero notice about this bill and its effects on residents. I've got to say that bugs me more than AMSA since AAMC has legislative experts working for them.

As for AMSA, I'm with them on all those goals, and I'm giving them a little slack here because this issue really blindsided everybody. If they don't address it soon, though, it'll be time to get mad.

Editing to add that I did find a pdf on the AAMC's site about this issue. It doesn't appear that they've done anything about it, though.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/educ/ed0003.htm

"The "College Cost Reduction Act of 2007" (H.R. 2669), an education budget bill approved by the House on July 11, 2007;

The "Higher Education Access Act of 2007" (S. 1762), the corresponding Senate education budget bill, approved by the Senate on July 19, 2007;

S. 1762 increases the cap on the economic hardship deferment from 3 years to 6 years, allowing qualifying resident physicians to postpone federal loan repayments. H.R. 2669 eliminates this limit completely. The House and Senate bill also decrease the debt-to-income ratio necessary to qualify for the economic hardship deferment and create an income-based repayment system for federal educational loans. This system would cap repayment at 15 percent of the amount by which a borrower's adjusted gross income exceeds 150 percent of the poverty line."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks to be favorable to medical school graduates...
 
"The "College Cost Reduction Act of 2007" (H.R. 2669), an education budget bill approved by the House on July 11, 2007;

The "Higher Education Access Act of 2007" (S. 1762), the corresponding Senate education budget bill, approved by the Senate on July 19, 2007;

S. 1762 increases the cap on the economic hardship deferment from 3 years to 6 years, allowing qualifying resident physicians to postpone federal loan repayments. H.R. 2669 eliminates this limit completely. The House and Senate bill also decrease the debt-to-income ratio necessary to qualify for the economic hardship deferment and create an income-based repayment system for federal educational loans. This system would cap repayment at 15 percent of the amount by which a borrower's adjusted gross income exceeds 150 percent of the poverty line."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks to be favorable to medical school graduates...

It would be, but the six year economic hardship proposal is just sitting in committee and was not passed as part of the Cost Reduction Act. The 15% thing did pass, and what they did was completely get rid of the economic hardship deferment that we currently have. Since almost all residents make more than 150% above the poverty line, after 2009 residents will no longer qualify for a complete deferment -- instead they will have to pay that 15% or get a forbearance.
 
It would be, but the six year economic hardship proposal is just sitting in committee and was not passed as part of the Cost Reduction Act. The 15% thing did pass, and what they did was completely get rid of the economic hardship deferment that we currently have. Since almost all residents make more than 150% above the poverty line, after 2009 residents will no longer qualify for a complete deferment -- instead they will have to pay that 15% or get a forbearance.

Unless they pass legislation between now and then to prevent it.

Don't get me wrong - medical student indebtedness is a huge problem and it's borderline criminal what they make us go through to be a "happy" practicing physician.
 
Yeah ... AMSA's big email today was about the National Circle of Healers Retreat.

Hadn't heard about S 1762, but if it doesn't ever pass, we could see a decrease in the number of low-income medical students. Which has huge implications for health disparities in this country. You'd think AMSA would get involved then.
 
Yeah ... AMSA's big email today was about the National Circle of Healers Retreat.

I cringed just reading the name of the retreat.

The Circle of Healers Retreat is an annual medical student retreat organized by AMSA and the members of Humanist Medicine Action committee. Every year the retreat brings together a group of loving, creative, passionate, healing medical students and residents from around the country. The goal is to reconnect with oneself, one another, and to create a humanistic community of medicine. The weekend will inspire you with activity, heartfelt conversation, meditation, healthy lifestyle practices, music, bonfires, and powerful friendships. During the retreat, you will also learn about alternative modalities, healthy eating, and humanistic approaches to patient interactions and meet physicians who have integrated these into their practice. This retreat is for those who wish to heal some of the wounds left by medical education and for those who wish to pave the path toward a more whole and integrative medical system. It is only through this essential foundation of inner and outer balance that students can hope to become excellent healers and compassionate physicians.

Probably followed by eating free range vegan pot brownies and singing koombaya (my secular diety) while learning about how to get spiritual with Gaia.
 
My favorite AMSA disaster was when they spammed us with requests to write letters supporting the Democrats because they were pushing a bill to eliminate loan interest on Staffords or whatever and wow wasn't AMSA working for us!

Then a few weeks later they were forced to admit that the entire time the bill had specifically indicated it was only for undergrads. 🙄

It's frustrating because the AMA-MSS is full of people who want to suck up to the AMA so they won't challenge them on things the AMA doesn't like (WORK CONDITIONS). And as far as I can tell from AMSA their priorities appear to be 1) granola Reiki vegan healing organic energy magnets 2) Democratic politics 349,141) problems we are facing as medical students.
 
Personally if I were to make a snarky comment it would be about "the wizard." But since I have a policy of only one snarky comment per day, and it is after 9am, I have def already used mine up for the day. Such a shame . . .

No way, man. I bet that wizard thing lurks on here....I wouldn't want to screw with him/her...they might go Magic Eight Ball/Brazilian Power Crystal on my ass.
 
Hmmmm....what exactly is going on in the pic next to "The Redwood Circle"? Must....restrain.....sarcasm.....http://www.amsa.org/humed/retreat03.cfm

Hmmm. . .that's quite commune-like. Also, I'm quite shocked to see that AMSA has a 'grand wizard'. Kinda like another organization that uses initials for its name. About as tolerant of opposing viewpoints, too.

<selections from the first draft of the online brochure>
Please join us every evening for the mandatory readings of selections from Marx's "Communist Manifesto" and Abby Hoffman's "Steal This Book." Afterwards, we will engage in group relaxations to the chant, "Huxley and Rand bad, Marx and Hoffman good!"

While enjoying the morning sunlight through the redwood circle, be sure to repeat the cleansing affirmation, "everything I do needs to be for the good of the hive! I will never, ever, do anything that benefits myself as an individual."
 
4.jpg


"puts on robe and wizard hat"
 
Hmmm. . .that's quite commune-like. Also, I'm quite shocked to see that AMSA has a 'grand wizard'. Kinda like another organization that uses initials for its name. About as tolerant of opposing viewpoints, too

Shun the nonbeliever....shun...shun. Apparently you haven't experienced the "Angel Wash". Prepare to be divinely hosed.
 
I thought that was the Abby Hoffman costume for your part in the retreat's musical/play/indoctrination titled, "F*kc da Man."

I thought it was a parody web site. Apparently it was for real.

Good Lord.
 
I got my copy of the New Physician (AMSA's monthly mag) in the mail the other day. The president's column was on the hight cost of higher education but there was nothing about the loan deferment problem that affects residents and graduating medical students. AMSA as far as I can tell is doing nothing; not even acknowledging the issue.

Oh and Nelnet (AMSA's partner) is one of the 33 private student loan firms under investigation by NY Attorney General Andrew Cuomo for deceptive practices in marketing loans. I really hope AMSA is not getting kickbacks for directing students to Nelnet.

"In the 1980's we crated the HEAL Deal to bring relief from excessively high interest rates. We later hosted two national summits on financing medical education and were instrumental in the founding of the National Health Service Corps. Recently we made history again with the AMSA Advantage Program that will bring financial literacy education to all medical students and provide the best student loans possible. AMSA has partnered with Nelnet, the nation's second largest lender to negotiate borrower benefits by students and for students." - Michael Ehlert, AMSA president, from the New Physician November 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101102281.html
"Cuomo subpoenaed Student Loan Xpress, a unit of CIT Group, and Nelnet, among others, over the practice of mailing fake checks or false rebates on loans to entice students to call. Nelnet was also subpoenaed for $25 Simon Visa gift cards it offers students for recommending friends. "
 
I really love their magazine. Also why don't u guys e-mail the president of AMSA with ur complaints about the lack of action dealing with the loan situation.

I agree with most of AMSA's stances but I'm also a liberal city kid.
 
I really love their magazine. Also why don't u guys e-mail the president of AMSA with ur complaints about the lack of action dealing with the loan situation.

I agree with most of AMSA's stances but I'm also a liberal city kid.

Well, at least you admit it!😀
 
I agree with most of AMSA's stances but I'm also a liberal city kid.

I'm also a liberal city kid, and I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would touch these B.S. groups like AMSA with a ten-foot pole. Ditto for the AMA.
 
I can't see any logic in joining AMSA unless you hate yourself.
 
I thought that was the Abby Hoffman costume for your part in the retreat's musical/play/indoctrination titled, "F*kc da Man."

I realize I'm "just a pre-med", and I don't really mean to intrude on your conversation, but in my lurking I was reminded of these videos and thought they provided some insight into the whole purple wizard organization which is AMSA.

In this one, Dr. Ken and his friend could be AMSA spokespeople

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/9aa9642448

In this one, Danny DeVito is AMSA. Don't forget to read the contract.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/60d14b6331
 
Well, for all who are interested, here are AMSA's new 4 goals:

Access to Quality, Affordable Health Care for All
We will continue our advocacy and education around the crisis of those who are un- and under-insured. AMSA members have long stood for equal access and quality for all people regardless of their ability to pay. 47 million of our patients are counting on us and current policy solutions are a long way from solving this problem.

Global Health EquityThis encompasses the issues of wellness, safety, opportunity, and environment which make up a healthy society. It also highlights the interconnected nature of all people and our responsibility for rational and proportional assistance for all people, regardless of which country they live in. Justice and equity are paramount to assuring that race, religion, income, gender, sexual preference or nationality are not factors limiting access to quality care.

Enriching Medicine Through Diversity
As the world becomes more integrated and mobile, the need for a health care workforce to reflect our society increases. AMSA’s independence was fueled by the civil rights era and continues today in advocacy for culturally appropriate care, underrepresented providers in medicine, and admission criteria which do not exclude those from different backgrounds.

Professional Integrity, Development and Student Well-being
Physicians have long had a sacred social mission and our patients expect us to uphold our value and professionalism. The undue influence of dual-loyalties to industry or investments undermines our care. AMSA is also committed to helping all students through the long process of medical school admissions, undergraduate medical education and career choices in residency and beyond. This process is often brutal and inhumane and we proudly support the work of our HuMed Committee in focusing on student well being and self care.

I like how student well being encompasses saying no to pharm and a sentence on "helping students through the long process of . . . medical education" but apparently doesn't include anything about financing said education, interest rates, deferment, rising tution rates, etc. Grr.

Anyone running for an AMSA office with some actual concern for medical student issues (rather than just wanting to save the world)?
 
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